Thank you Thank you, DocJohn.

[mrsD]

Welcome everyone!

This forum is for sharing experiences with complimentary solutions for health,
other than prescription drugs.

That includes of course, vitamins, minerals, other nutrients like SAMe, amino acids, herbs, etc.

Some of you who know me, know that I have references based on MedLine
research for drug induced nutrient depletions. These are situations, where a needed drug has the side effect of increasing your need(s) for certain nutrients to maintain health. This is a new discipline, and many doctors are unaware of it.
So feel free to ask anytime regarding your therapies (which should NOT be discontinued)...for that information. I provide links and back-up data that
you can print out and take to your doctor. (Lyme's patients often experience this problem, as well as those taking antiseizure drugs).
If you are more comfortable with privacy, you can PM me here anytime.
Also many people with medical problems experience mal-absorption from their food (Celiac, Crohn's), or fail to absorb certain vitamins due to
age or genetics. (B12)

I have professional training in this subject, and am a licensed medical professional (for over 35yrs).

In some cases, there have been reports of reversing Bipolar symptoms (Margo Kidder for example), ADHD (in our own home)
Tourette's (CheMar has done this) and I hope others will visit here with their stories as well.

I hope to see some old friends here, as well as new faces.

[Jo*mar]

for homeopathic and other alternative therapies.

some don't fit in as vitamins or supplements -
but they fit as far as the more natural non - drug stand point

Electrotherapy
http://www.vitality-web.com/backstor...Stimulator.htm
http://www.medi-stim.com/overview.htm
http://www.rehabpub.com/features/82004/3.asp
http://www.spine-health.com/topics/c...ctro/el01.html
http://www.skylarkdevice.com/web-site/ele_thera.htm
http://www.bmls.com/electrodes/epc.php
http://rehabilicare.com/protocol.html

Laser/ Infared/ far infrared
http://laser.nu/
http://www.purehealthsystems.com/infrared.html
http://www.purehealthsystems.com/mus...in-relief.html
http://www.toolsforwellness.com/far-infrared.html

Natural vision improvement
http://www.i-see.org/eyecharts.html
http://www.rebuildyourvision.com/order
http://www.improve-vision.com/

Medical/Wellness/Alternative
http://www.wellnessresources.com/pro.../protocols.htm
http://www.vitamin-insight.com/dieta...anagement.aspx
http://www.nwhealthsolutions.com/
http://www.mercola.com/index.html
http://www.consumerlab.com/
http://www.youngagain.com/wellnesstest.html

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/simplified.php
http://www.hmedicine.com/news/guide/single/singles/all
http://www.webhomeopath.com/en/jsp/login.jsp

http://www.holisticmed.com/www/bodywork.html
http://www.whatreallyworks.co.uk/sta...article_ID=253
http://www.wendi.com/html/pain.html
http://www.NationalPainFoundation.org
http://www2.rpa.net/~lrandall/index.html

Drug/Vitamin/supplement- interaction checkers & info

http://www.drugintel.com/
http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html
http://www.drugdigest.org
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/Home/0,4082,,00.html

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/
http://myelectronicmd.com/
http://www.medical-library.org/mddx_index.htm
http://www.google.com/search?q=suppl...en-US:official
http://www.lifechallenges.org/create/creative.html

[mrsD]

aren't you my old "IFC" friend?

You are certainly a great resource!

[Chemar]

wunnerful!! :D

thanks so much for adding this Forum DocJohn and for opening the discussion MrsD and Jo55 for the great links.

I will be along tomorrow to add some too

[reverett123]

I have a suggestion or two (the room gasps in astonishment) :D

The folks over at the celiac corner maintain "The Gluten File" and what I recall of it is very impressive. They also maintained enough backup to be able to restore after BT1 slipped away.

A similar system might be a good idea here. I don't know if it would be better to have one big file and risk it becoming a junk drawer or to have individual files for specific nutrients or groups or disorders or what. A "Vitamin B12" file? An "anti-inflammatory" file? An "Anti-cancer" file?

Does anyone know what they do for their Gluten File?

-Rick

[mrsD]

Rose, has already made a B12 website on Google (like the Gluten File). She is still working on it, I believe.

Here is her link:
http://roseannster.googlepages.com/

And I have copies of my EFA, B6, Carnitine, Magnesium, Zinc threads
and will start moving some of that data over here over time.

A new topic will be here shortly, on the value of Inositol, on OCD, Depression,
diabetes, insulin resistance, and anxiety.

[jccgf]

I have a suggestion or two (the room gasps in astonishment) :D

The folks over at the celiac corner maintain "The Gluten File" and what I recall of it is very impressive. They also maintained enough backup to be able to restore after BT1 slipped away.

A similar system might be a good idea here. I don't know if it would be better to have one big file and risk it becoming a junk drawer or to have individual files for specific nutrients or groups or disorders or what. A "Vitamin B12" file? An "anti-inflammatory" file? An "Anti-cancer" file?

Does anyone know what they do for their Gluten File?

-Rick

Hi Rick,

The Gluten File is primarily a personal endeavor of mine, that represents many hundreds of hours on my part across about five years. I had conceptualized it, and collected the bulk of the research data via PubMed, google, google scholar, etc., before the GS/CD forum even opened on the old, old, BT board. It took eight months to get the forum opened, and I was working on it the entire while I waited. I was certainly inspired by the folks on the PN forum (mrsd, rose, legna and others) and their environment of research, and I was driven by my family's unique presentation of gluten sensitivity and the fact that our doctors seemed to know nothing about it. In the years following, I have continued to maintain it with new information that I, and others, have found. A couple new pages have been added~ Anne contributed the entire Vitamin D thread, for example, and she had kept that data and resent it to me.


Having said that, The Gluten File is just a small fraction of the accumulated information we had on the forum. Missing are the long threads of dialogue that followed, with input, interpretation, and testimonials of others. I also kept an index of threads I believed to be most valuable (probably 20 or 30 created by various members of the community) in TGF, but those threads and all the information in them are gone now, too, so the index is of little use. (Except possibly as a guide for searching for cached copies...of which I have not attempted to do in wide scale) We also lost our Recipe thread that a great deal of effort was put into by other forum members. Various food study threads....lost. So many great informative threads...gone. We lost our useful websites, that contained some information that wasn't necessarily in The Gluten File. We lost our Diagnostic Journey's thread that was of considerable value. We losts many posts of PubMed abstracts, online articles, etc, that were of interest~ but not quite relative enough to be put in TGF. WE LOST ALOT!

So, in reality, although The Gluten File looks big (and it is), we still lost an awful lot. I had the bulk of The Gluten File saved from my original creation of it. I had copied my threads of the TGF once, in May 2005, so that I would have some of the updated information... just in case another crash happened (I had already needed to start from scratch before)...but even with a year old back up, I still had to re-search PubMed for all the pertinent articles of the last year.

We were organized from day 1, however, in creating informational type threads. If someone had an area of interest, they would begin a thread on it, and others would add to it. Most of those threads were merely indexed/linked in TGF, so they were all lost. I think people who spend large amounts of time researching and posting information probably should create personal files of the data. I always work in a word file first, and then transfer the data over onto the forum..that way I always have my original work.

Cara

[west1]

Hi mrsd,

You probably remember me from OBT. I had recently found out I had a Vit D and possibly other deficiencies (probably med induced) and had been doing a lot of research into this (was also trying to find out if there would be any update(s) to the Drug-Induced Nutrient Depletion Handbook).

I had typed up a long update (several pages) in MS Word with various research links (PubMed, etc.) and was about to post it when OBT/BT1 went down. I still have this update and have also continued to research additional material, however unfortunately without the initial information in the OBT thread I started, as well as the timing involved (now over 2 months later), it would be hard to update all of the information here in a way that would make sense. I suspect some of the information in the thread could be accessed via Google caches, but not all of it. I will plan from here on to backup important information.

My current plan will be to just continue to wait for OBT/BT1 to come back up and either add updates to my thread there, or try to pull that thread over here and update it here. Either way it will be a challenge to try to make everything make sense due to the timing involved (certain new information I am finding tends to make previous findings obsolete). Anyway, I will try to do the best I can.

Good to catch up with you and others again! :)

[KTM5665]

whatchya know about mito and vitamin K, Mrs D?! twins started on it recently. I have read it needs to be combined with vitamin c. Thoughts?:D

[mrsD]

I am thinking myself that I would do both forums, if OBT comes back.

Your enthusiasm here is very welcome! So please jump in and post
your work as your feel comfortable.

Every pair of eyes that sees it may benefit in some way! Got to spread that
word you know!;)

[mrsD]

I did a search and found this....

http://www.indianpediatrics.net/nov2000/nov-1175-1179.htm
Dietary manipulations including high carbohydrate intake has been recommended to compensate for impaired gluconeogenesis and to decrease lipolysis. Anecdotal success has been reported with a number of vitamins and co-factors [riboflavin, vitamin K, vitamin C(12, 13), thiamin, nicotinamide, carnitine] and glucocorticosteroids. Coenzyme Q10 has been used most extensively in varied doses (10-120 mg/day) and found to be more consistently beneficial in some studies(14) clinically and on investigation (decrease in serum lactate, nerve conduction velocities, muscle metabolism measured by magnetic resonance spectro-scopy). On the other hand other workers obtained no response.

In conclusion, neurological mitochondrial disorders in children have a wide range of age of onset and clinical manifestations. Heightened awareness of these disorders would help towards proper diagnosis and treatment in many previously undiagnosed cases.

Your situation is highly specialized, with new data coming in all the time.
So I certainly am not "up there" except for what I can find on the net.

[west1]

whatchya know about mito and vitamin K, Mrs D?! twins started on it recently. I have read it needs to be combined with vitamin c. Thoughts?:D

This may not be exactly what you are looking for as I suspect you are mainly looking for information for children, but here’s some quick Vit K info from more of a technical standpoint (I covered some Vit K info in my research):

3 types of Vitamin K:
K1 (phylloquinone): Mainly controls blood coagulation.
K2 (menaquinones (MK-4 (menatetrenone) through MK-10)): Help control calcium uptake in bones & controls calcium levels in bloodstream (via osteocalcin, etc. carboxylation).
K3 (menadione): Synthetic and generally not recommended for supplementation.

Some good Vit K links (general info):
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/feb00-report.html
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_aas_01.htm
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/nov2002_report_vitk_01.html
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/vit_0267.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K

Some good research studies (Medline/PubMed, full text documents are available for these). Vit K2 appears to do a very good job with bone health (osteoporosis) and alleviating arteriosclerosis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=14654717&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=8&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15514282&itool=iconfft&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum

Lots of additional research is currently being performed with Vit K. From what I gather, it appears that adequate Vitamin D (but not overdoing it) is needed for appropriate calcium absorption, and then Vitamin K (K2) puts calcium where it needs to be… in the bones.

P.S.
A suggestion for this forum might be to have specific threads dedicated to technical/research/reference information for each vitamin/nutrient. Threads could be labeled, for example, “Vitamin K, Research Data” or “Vitamin K, Reference Information” and appropriate links to research/reference documents, etc. could be posted in these threads. We could still keep the “Useful Websites” sticky reserved for overall reference databases/knowledgebases (for ex. drug-vitamin/nutrient depletion references, etc.). Perhaps this will help keep the information organized. Any thoughts?

[mrsD]

I am already planning B6 thread, EFAs (Omega-3), Magnesium, Zinc,
and Carnitine.

If you want to do K, which you seem to have alot of info on already, and
D, you could get rolling on those.

Common Vits, are covered very heavily on Linus Pauling Institute, and
don't really need their own thread here, I don't think.

But I do think that threads like Nutritional support for Fibromyalgia,
Lymes, Osteoporosis, Cancer (chemo damage), seizures, MS, would be valuable. People with those issues usually look for their illness rather than individual nutrients.

There's plenty to keep us busy for a while! ;)

[stumps]

Great forum ,:) :) :) thank goodness its here, can you also please cover vitamins individually such as Thiamine, riboflavin, carnitine, D-ribose and such..with more and more having a suspected mito dysfunction or metabolic illness it could be really helpful. The multi vitamin approach is broken down in mito and metabolics (adults)a lot more.:o and I get muddled.
In the UK were I am they told us a few weeks ago Mitochondrial Cytopathy in general is possibly the most under-diagnosed condition in our country today..Will be appearing on various forums as at present finding this smaller set-up easier to use.
Gillian

[mrsD]

Please check out that link I posted for Alicia...it covers the mito/nutrient
issue for patients with mito issues.

Nice to see you here! ;)

[KTM5665]

MrsD and west1~

what great sources of info you both have provided. I'm going to have a field day, reading all of this. I really appreciate the time you both have spent today, and in the past helping me! Looking forward to a great read!!!!!

[shotspine]

I am soooo happy to see this forum. May it grow in leaps and bounds I haven't read much of it yet nor do I have any input......except.........THANK YOU!!!!! Right now I am goofy as heck from side effects of nortriptyline. My Doc told me to increase by 1 each day until 1)pain relief 2)side effects or I hit 10per day. Well, today is the aftermath of taking 6 last night. S/E hit like a ton of bricks today so have call into Dr.

Guess why I am taking these to start with!! Sit down first.........I tried to get my insurance co to preauthorize LIDODERM patches. They won't until I try all of the following: Neuorontin, Nortriptyline, Cymbalta, and Fentanyl and one other I can't remember. My Dr and I are furious as none of this makes any sense. He says: "when they see the word 'patch' they will make you go thru all the 'cheaper' drugs thinking all patches are the same. Good God! Well, gotta run, I'm not feeling so great. Will sure be back and use this forum a lot!

Hugs and Blessings to all!

[mrsD]

Welcome here friend.

I sure hope that is the 10mg nortrip you are on that you are increasing!

I really don't understand insurance companies...they just torture the patients.

Cymbalta, and fentanyl are not good medical interventions. Cymbalta is expensive and Fentanyl is habit forming... The others are available generically and I can see a tier thing with them. But the other two just defy logic.

Lidoderms are expensive, but I think fentanyl is comparable or even less. I feel really lucky to get 90 Lidoderms/90 days for $35.00. And more than lucky since I haven't had to use them lately... but you never know!:p

You should contact your insurance and ask about prior authorization procedures.
Some have in place policies to allow your doctor to by-pass some of the rules.

Take care.

[shotspine]

((((((((((((((((((((mrsd))))))))))))))))))))))

Oh I am one happy lady to see you! I can't tell you how many times I kicked myself this summer for not having your email addy. So, will you please PM me with your addy. Generally, I find all I need from looking thru your posts and never thought about the fact that you AND posts would just go "poof". I don't even remember what was so important, but it was at the time and I felt so ..........sad, and left to fend for myself. Not that I haven't done that all my life but hey, when you find a lifeline that is just a click away.....laziness creeps in and so does fear of 'who to trust now'.

Anyway, yes it's 10 mg. Still waiting for a call back. I'm still goofy as all get out too so will be back. And yes, I know what you are saying......I'm going to fight before I have to take the Cymbalta. I already lied and said I couldn't take Neuorontin (I had RX's for it that I filled but never took. I have had samples of Cymbalta for a year or more and haven't tried it yet and don't want to. Fentanyl, I have several patches left over from before my Dad died in 03. I've never tried them and don't want to. I already take Dilaudid and Methadone. I don't NEED oral/internal meds. I NEED local lidoderm patches. It is really very scary to realize that the people at the ins. co. know NOTHING about medication. I mean really......this could be serious for those that don't know better. Fentanyl inlieu of lidocaine??? That could really do a number on some.

Okay, that's my grief and I'm worn out ................just so happy to be back. Hope you had a terrific summer mrsd!!!

[west1]

If you want to do K, which you seem to have alot of info on already, and
D, you could get rolling on those.


Thanks mrsd. I will try to kick off some threads for these as I get a chance. I probably now have hundreds of bookmarks for studies, etc. that I have come across for various vitamins/nutrients (as well as meds/issues) and would need to go through them again to pick out the best ones to post. As mentioned previously, the (large) update that I wanted to post on the thread I started on OBT/BT1 has some good info, but not having the whole thread here would make the update hard to follow (unclear). I would otherwise have some major rewriting on the update to make it make sense and with the passage of time, even the update itself will eventually become obsolete.

Thanks again. I will try to have something up within the next few days. :)

[mrsD]

I have found other things that way...give me a couple of days...I have to
work tomorrow.

And there is always the possibility that OBT will come back. Perhaps.

Do you remember the title of the thread? Was it the Vit D one? The orig.poster?

[west1]

The title was "Vitamin/Nutrient Testing: Spectracell Laboratories??". I have gone through the cache and the best I could find was http://72.14.207.104/custom?q=cache:8d9dbnPzFKoJ:brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D132982%26page%3D2+Vitamin/Nutrient+Testing:+Spectracell+Laboratories%3F%3F&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1, which is less than half of the thread. Not nearly enough info for my update to make sense. You're welcome to look some too if you like, otherwise I will just plan to keep waiting for OBT/BT1 until it's too late and the update is obsolete.

Still some good links in that cached copy that we could organize and add to the forum here!

[mrsD]

I couldn't get page one either... I tried manipulation of the code even in the
address...and only page 2 shows up.

There are new guidelines here that you cannot post data (link to )
another health board...

So I suggest you rewrite you posts to include your links, just to be compliant.

I tried, too... sorry.:o

[Ann Futral]

Hello Everybody!

I finally found this board last night and was so overjoyed I almost cryed.

I am still working on building my vit stores up, now it is vit D which has helped immensley getting me back on my feet and vit A which I was also low in.

I have been reading this new board and feel much more reassured that I have a place to come to for advice from the most knowledgable people around. (Rose and MrsD for a couple of them :) )

I have found some good things out about yerba mate and green tea which I will be sharing with everyone as soon as I can get it written on my website. Here too as soon as I get some more research done.

What a wonder! I thought all my old friends were gone for good.


Love you all,

[mrsD]

Nice to see you made it here!

I am happy to see you exploring Yerba Mate. I've been drinking this since
Dec 05 with great success. I also do green tea (Lipton's).

I have a couple of posts on another forum here:

http://forums.braintalk2.org/showthread.php?t=1360

Antioxidants are where it is at these days!