Ferritin Levels and Tourette Syndrome

[Chemar]

very interesting article on ferritin levels (ie stored iron) in people with TS

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/163/7/1264

My son has iron deficiency plus low MCV/hematocrit and anaemia which we were told was due to his recently dx crohn's disease, but reading this article has made me realise that the TS likely is at the root of this....

[mrsD]

does not work for me? Is it correct?:(

[Chemar]

That should work now MrsD!

I had copied the link direct from my post at Latitudes forgetting that that longer links get compacted there:o

[mrsD]

I thought it was ME since I can't read updates at you know where either....
one gets rather paranoid on the internet sometimes.

And I sure know about those "abbreviated" links!

You know, low iron is also found in ADHD... it is a rather significant
finding, and part of the ADHD mimicry diagnoses! Interesting that it is found
in TS as well, since some places link them on a continuum.(is that spelled right?)..sorry.

[Lara]

This older one at the top of the list goes along with that newer one you posted, Chemar. I'm really interested in this ferritin issue. I also have RLS so have been trying to follow the connections. Somewhere or other on my computer I have some concise information that talks about differences between stored ferritin levels, iron deficiency, anaemia and the like. I'll try to find it. It's important that people just don't go on a iron overload regime thinking it'll help. It's more complex than that and for some people, taking Iron can be harmful.

PubMed Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=7701035&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum)
Psychiatry Res. 1994 Dec;55(4):205-21.
Abnormal magnetic resonance imaging T2 relaxation time asymmetries in Tourette's syndrome.
Peterson BS,Gore JC,Riddle MA,Cohen DJ,Leckman JF.

Department of Child Psychiatry, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, CT 06520-7900, USA
__________

Mov Disord. 2004 Sep;19(9):1084-7.
Restless legs in Tourette syndrome (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15372602&query_hl=18 )
Lesperance P, Djerroud N, Diaz Anzaldua A, Rouleau GA, Chouinard S, Richer F; Montreal Tourette Study Group.

"Restless legs in Tourette syndrome.

Restless legs syndrome (RLS) and Tourette's syndrome (TS) share some common features, including the phenomenology of sensations relieved by movements, but few studies have examined the links between RLS and TS. We examined RLS and other TS comorbidities in 144 probands with TS or chronic tics and their parents. RLS was present in 10% of probands and 23% of parents with no gender differences. RLS in probands was linked significantly to maternal RLS but not paternal RLS, suggesting that a maternal RLS factor may contribute to the variable expression of TS.

PMID: 15372602"
__________

PubMed Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16459164&query_hl=5&itool=pubmed_docsum)
J Lab Clin Med. 2006 Feb;147(2):67-73.
Ferritin subunits in CSF are decreased in restless legs syndrome.
Clardy SL,Earley CJ,Allen RP,Beard JL,Connor JR.

Department of Neurosurgery, M.S. Hershey Medical Center, Hershey, Pennsylvania 17033, USA.
__________

PubMed Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15683140&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum)
Sleep. 2004 Dec 15;27(8):1499-504.
Symptoms of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder in adults with restless legs syndrome.
Wagner ML, Walters AS, Fisher BC
__________

PubMed Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16218085&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum)
Sleep. 2005 Aug 1;28(8):1007-13.
Restless legs syndrome and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder: a review of the literature.
Cortese S,Konofal E,Lecendreux M,Arnulf I,Mouren MC,Darra F,Dalla Bernardina B.

Service de Psychopathologie de l'Enfant et de l'Adolescent, Hopital Robert Debre, Paris, France.

[Chemar]

It's important that people just don't go on a iron overload regime thinking it'll help. It's more complex than that and for some people, taking Iron can be harmful.

.

very valid warning Lara!

even when people are iron deficient (as my son is ) one has to be sooo careful with supplementing it.
We have him on a gentle iron for the anaemia, and it is real low dose and chelated so as to minimise the digestive distress that iron supps can cause.
well, he does ok on it tho he says he doesnt like it...........however, the other day he needed more, and they didnt have the Solgar brand that he uses, so I bought a different brand (same iron dose, also called Gentle Iron) and he had an awful reaction to it! The doc says it was probably a differently produced form of iron. we took him off it immediately, and now have the original brand back in...........
But it sure made me aware again of just how sensitive the body is to iron!!

[Lara]

Yes, brands are not all the same even if the ingredient seems the same on the package. I found that with SAMe a long time back and have also read about quality differences especially with Melatonin. Years back I was taking a B-complex that had Niacin in it. I couldn't figure out what was going wrong with me everytime I took it. Ended up talking to my gastroenterologist who told me to change the type of Niacin I was taking because my liver wasn't dealing with it well. Ended up changing to niacinamide instead of the nicotinic acid. Gosh, I think I got that the right way around. Long time ago.

[cassandra]

Hi - I'm new here - I found this site by googling tourette's and anemia. I have suspected that my ten year old daughter has TS (I know the condition well as I have lived with it since the age of 5 - of course back then you only had TS if you swore a lot so I was labeled hyperactive). I took her to her pediatrician and he ordered a blood work up and tested her thyroid levels (I'm not sure why). He then referred us to a pediatrician specializing in tic disorders. (of course a waiting list - I won't get in to see her for months) We returned to receive the follow up to the blood work and found that she has low iron levels. He said she was anemic. He prescribed iron pills "ferrous sulphate" 300 mg. which she is to take once a day. What sort of concerns should I have with her taking this level? Is it at all possible that the severity of her tics will diminish once her iron levels have improved? I am a desperate mom with a beautiful daughter who is suffering greatly because of her motor and vocal tics. I don't want false hope and yet still hoping!

[mrsD]

so your daughter must not be very anemic.

The amount of iron in a typical 325mg ferrous sulfate is 27mg elemental.
And not all of this is absorbed either. Use of vitamin C with the iron increases absorption success.

So while 300 seems high, it is not "real". Most iron therapies use 3 tablets daily.

You will just have to wait and see..regarding effects. Each person is
different. And it takes TIME to build iron levels. It will not happen "over night".
Expect at least 2 months. If the diet is low in folic acid, there will be little improvement.

The most common side effects are constipation, or GI upset. But at one a day..this is less likely.

[Chemar]

Hi Cassandra and welcome

my son is anaemic (not related to his TS, but to his Crohn's disease) and the only iron supplement that he seems able to tolerate is Solgar's Gentle Iron...this may be because of his sensitive GIT system related to the Crohn's...

We have had tremendous success with a natural treatment protocol that my son has been following for 6 years now. He did have very severe TS and OCD, but things are now really mild and manageable. I have written about it here http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1144

There is also a lot of useful info on TS in our useful websites link above
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=681

hope you find the answers you are seeking

[cassandra]

Thank you! 300 mg sounded like an awful lot but I am relieved that it is not a high dose! Thank you Chemar for your links - I found another site with lots of your helpful tips - I was up until 3 am reading as much as I could! I avoided medication for my own tics as the side effects seemed scarier than the tics themselves! Of course, by the time I found out I had TS - I was in my late teens and my tics had diminished a fair bit. What's most frustrating, is that now that I am nearly 40 my tics had almost disappeared...that is until my daughter started severely ticcing. Now I find my motor tics have returned a bit so I will also try some of your natural remedies. The epsom salt bath intrigues me and I will visit some vitamin stores to see if they carry some of the combinations you suggested. I am having a difficult time getting my daughter to swallow her iron pill whole so I am hoping I can find some sort of calcium/magnesium/zinc formula that comes powdered. It is wonderful finding this awesome resource. Thank you for your dedication and community-minded sharing!

[Lara]

I'm a little confused with this iron issue again. Sorry... Trying to figure something out.

Can someone explain to me again the difference between ferritin levels and serum iron levels...

If a doctor was testing for anaemia would they test both ferritin levels and serum iron levels?

and

I thought there was a difference between having an iron deficiency/anaemia and having problems with the actual transport system in the body which usually sends our stored iron to specific areas of the brain?

Stored iron is ferritin... right?

[Lara]

Ferritin levels seem to be a bit of a hot topic at present with regard to RLS, TS and some other conditions so I thought I'd revisit an old topic here to answer my own questions just so it's on the board. :)

http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edudev/LabTutorials/Ferritin/Ferritin.html

Iron Use and Storage in the Body:
Ferritin and Molecular Representations
Iron in Biology: Study of the Iron Content in Ferritin, The Iron-Storage Protein.

Ferritin: The Iron-Storage Protein

How does the body regulate the amount of iron? Fortunately, most of us are able to maintain appropriate levels of available iron in the body (enough available iron to ensure an adequate supply of hemoglobin, but not so much as to produce toxic effects), even if our iron consumption does not always exactly match the body's iron loss. Ferritin (Figure 1) is the key to this important control of the amount of iron available to the body. Ferritin is a protein that stores iron and releases it in a controlled fashion. Hence, the body has a "buffer" against iron deficiency (if the blood has too little iron, ferritin can release more) and, to a lesser extent, iron overload (if the blood and tissues of the body have too much iron, ferritin can help to store the excess iron).

How does ferritin store iron? Ferritin has the shape of a hollow sphere. Inside the sphere, iron is stored in the Fe(III) oxidation state. It is incorporated in the mineral ferrihydrite, [FeO(OH)]8[FeO(H2PO4)], which is attached to the inner wall of the sphere. To release iron when the body needs it, the iron must be changed from the Fe(III) to the Fe(II) oxidation state. Then, the iron leaves through channels in the spherical structure. Thus, the structure of ferritin is extremely important for the protein's ability to store and release iron in a controlled fashion. In order to understand how ferritin helps to maintain the correct amount of available iron in the body, we must study the protein's structure in detail.