View Full Version : MAGNESIUM Information:
This thread is going to evolve into something similar to my Magnesium and ADHD thread which was very popular at OBT.
It is estimated that 70% of the American population is deficient in magnesium in the diet.
Low Magnesium can occur during certain therapies as well. Chemo for cancer is notorius for lowering magnesium. Also diuretics, estrogens and progestins in hormone/birth control treatment, digoxin, steroids, some antibiotics.
Stress, alcohol, and caffeine also deplete magnesium. As would chronic diarrhea.
Diabetics are typically deficient in magnesium as well.
The Linus Pauling Institute has a good monograph about this mineral.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/magnesium/index.html
Magnesium is useful in patients with ADD/ADHD and is essential for the
biochemisty of Omega-3s.
People who become depleted of magnesium may succumb to a cardiac event called prolonged Q-T. This is where the heart rhythm becomes stalled,
and the heart stops beating. Many drugs cause Q-T events, and I will post that later on this thread. Chronic pain patients using Methadone need to be watchful, as well as those using amphetamine or methylphenidate for ADHD.
The withdrawn common antihistamines Seldane and Hismanal were taken off the market because of Q-T events occurring when other drugs were used
with them. Propulsid was removed for the same reason when diuretics lowered magnesium in patients, who then died of cardiac arrest while using Propulsid for GERD.
Later on in this thread I will post about which types of magnesium are best to use, and which (magnesium oxide) are not good choices.
Chemar
09-19-2006, 05:13 PM
Hi Mrs D
just wanted to add that magnesium seems to be a vital factor in Tourette Syndrome supplementation too, with most TS people being deficient in it
Bonnie Grimaldi's research (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11863398&dopt=Abstract) is directed toward this, and this also forms the basis for her BonTech line of supplements for TS
I am soooo appreciating having this forum here!:)
Vowel Lady
09-19-2006, 09:58 PM
Hi Mrs. D:
Is there a general rule of thumb for how much magnesium we should have?
I have migraines and I know it helps in prevention.
In addition, can you recommend a good book for a layperson re: taking vitamins and minerals for health or preventing sickness?
Thank you, A.
:)
There are two types of magnesium supplement...
1)inorganic salts
2)organic chelates.
Inorganic salts include epsom salts (magnesium sulfate), magnesium chloride
as found in delayed release forms SlowMag, and its generic equivs MagDelay and Mag64.
And Magnesium Oxide (which time has proven in studies to be next to useless).
The chelates are citrate, lactate, glycinate, malate, taurate..these are the most common. This is magnesium bonded to an amino acid which then allows for better absorption with less stool loosening (a common side effect).
Recent studies have shown that not all magnesium supplements are bioavailable --meaning absorbed well from the GI tract.
Magnesium lactate is the best, most completely absorbed.
Magneisum oxide is the worst, by far, and should be avoided.
The rest provide in intermediate level of success and if you want dual effects, some of the chelates afford those. Magnesium taurate provides taurine, which some Tourette's patients do well on. Taurine is also good for the heart.
Magnesium malate provides malic acid which Fibromyalgia patients often find helpful. Anyone with muscle issues would find this useful.
Magnesium citrate can be very laxative, but some people find this useful if they have chronic constipation.
For many, foods offer a safe and easy way to get enough magnesium. This is best for children, and I prefer this way myself. The Linus Pauling site I posted above gives good food choices to do it this way. It also provides dosing suggestions. When taking a supplement of magnesium, one has to consider how much one is getting from food. Most people do not need high doses of magnesium supplements, for that reason. The general rule of thumb is to take at least 1/2 of the suggested RDA in a supplement form. Also people with renal (kidney) disorders must have their blood checked and some physician supervision while taking magnesium supplements.
Overdosing on oral magnesium usually leads to diarrhea in normal people without kidney issues. So toxicity is difficult to reach. But in babies given enemas (Fleet's) magnesium poisoning is a real danger. Adults with eating disorders who purge this way using enemas like this can become a statistic in a poisoning event. Poisoning with magnesium yearly is rather low risk,
usually in the double digits, nationally. Elderly patients with impaired renal function are also at risk when given enemas, citrate of magnesia for X-rays, or Magnesium sulfate IV. They are not commonly poisoned orally with supplements.
Here is a medical site concerning low/high magnesium issues:
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/magnesium_imbalance.jsp
The next thread I post here will be about elemental values.
Many supplements have confusing labels, and you may think you are taking something and really receiving something else.
Because I had meningitis which is considered a brain injury once I finally hooked up with my present good doctor he immediately put me on a high dose of magnesium. The thinking is that in any brain injury the magnesium in the csf fluid that bathes the brain is released and is lowered. I also get IV magnesium once a month at the hospital pain centre, seems to help with the jerks.
You will also find on the web many trauma centres now giving IV mag. as part of the initial head injury protocol, Kindly, Alye
Chemar
09-23-2006, 01:57 PM
I dont know if it has already been mentioned...
but taking a warm tub with about 2 cups of EPSOM SALTS (http://www.epsomsaltcouncil.org/) (aka magnesium sulfate) has tremendous health benefits in detoxification, soothing muscular-skeletal pain and a whole lot more!
I love those epsom salt baths.. They are really nice for older folks too,
since circulation to the feet can be less for them, and hence less of anything
in the bloodstream gets thru to the feet (and fingers too).
So epsom salts really help there, the mag goes right thru the skin.
It also softens the skin and allows for easy removal or maintenance of calluses.
Some people with autistic children find the sulfate portion of the epsom salts
helps them too.
There are creams that contain magnesium.
One is made by Kirkman labs.
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/minerals/magnesium/Mag_Sulf_Cream_Spec225.html
Some parents at OBT's autism forum reported that rubbed in before bedtime
settled the children down alot.
Thanks for reminding me, Chemar!
And Thanks for that input Ayle... magnesium sulfate IV is also used for
pregnant women who have eclampsia.
Vowel Lady
10-01-2006, 10:47 PM
Dear Mrs. D...
Well...I finally got around to checking my magnesium. I actually have two different containers of calcium/mag supplements. Both have Vitamin D in them. I keep one in the kitchen and take 50% dosage with breakfast. The other is on my night stand. I take the other 50% at bedtime.
Vitamin D from cholecalciferol
Calcium from calcium carbonate
Magnesium from magnesium oxide
I gather the magneisum oxide is NOT from a good source. Will stop by Wild Oats this week and look for something else.
What should I look for in a calcium supplement? Vitamin D? Am I likely to get something good in ONE tablet?
MANY thanks for your help.
:eek:
I have not had much luck with finding the "perfect" mix in one tablet.
I am sure they are out there somewhere, but.....
I take Cod liver oil caps in the winter for my D (nothing in the summer).
Many foods/juices have calcium added, don't forget about them.
I use Maalox Max for my calcium...since I need the other ingredient
for my GI issues. It is quick dissolve, and easy.
Magnesium is tough to find a good product...mixtures are often the oxide.
So you may have to do them separately.
This week is really tight for me, but when I get some time, I will look around for you. And post it here or PM you...how is that?
I did a brief look see for combo products... the closest I could find was expensive and by Floradix. But still all the combo products
are fairly low in Vit D...if you want to do 1000IUs the new recommended amount, you will have to take that extra.
Many combo products either have mag oxide or mag oxide mixed with chelated versions..but they do not tell that ratio..
so you may get mostly oxide, because that is the cheapest form.
Labels for supplements can be confusing.
They may give data and it is not clear for example, that you have to take
2-4 tablets to get the amount on the supplement listing. One must read all supplement nutritional labels carefully and not assume they refer to one tablet unless that is listed as such.
Another confusing issue is the concept of ELEMENTAL.
This is very important for minerals: calcium, magnesium, zinc are good examples.
I am not a good writer... but I found a very good PDF that explains this concept clearly:
www.albionlabs.com/human/Newsletter/1998October.pdf
Basically magnesium is a metal, and in its pure form, it is not soluble in water.
Mixed with various other molecules or compounds(chelates), it becomes more
accessible to the body and can be used properly.
It can be mixed with an inorganic molecule:
magnesium oxide
magnesium sulfate
magnesium chloride
OR it can be mixed with an organic compound--usually an amino acid--
which then makes it more absorbable..These are called chelates.
The chelate weighs more than the magnesium and hence the total actual percentage of magnesium itself is lower compared to the weight of the mixture.
The general ratio of magnesium to total chelate weight varies from 8% (for the taurate) to about 12% for some others. One guideline is size. If the tablet label for a chelate is confusing and does not give "elemental" values,
and the tablet is small...don't expect much magnesium. For example magnesium malate is 152mg of magnesium elemental, and 848 mg of malic acid to give a total weight of 1000mg on the label. And it is a huge tablet reflecting that ratio.
This website explains it too:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp
Oral magnesium supplements combine magnesium with another substance such as a salt. Examples of magnesium supplements include magnesium oxide, magnesium sulfate, and magnesium carbonate. Elemental magnesium refers to the amount of magnesium in each compound. Figure 1 compares the amount of elemental magnesium in different types of magnesium supplements [28]. The amount of elemental magnesium in a compound and its bioavailability influence the effectiveness of the magnesium supplement. Bioavailability refers to the amount of magnesium in food, medications, and supplements that is absorbed in the intestines and ultimately available for biological activity in your cells and tissues. Enteric coating of a magnesium compound can decrease bioavailability [29]. In a study that compared four forms of magnesium preparations, results suggested lower bioavailability of magnesium oxide, with significantly higher and equal absorption and bioavailability of magnesium chloride and magnesium lactate [30]. This supports the belief that both the magnesium content of a dietary supplement and its bioavailability contribute to its ability to replete deficient levels of magnesium.
There is a nice chart on this website to help you understand.
The second part of understanding magnesium supplements is understanding
bioavailability..that is after you swallow the tablet, how much can one expect to be absorbed and become useful to the patient.
New evidence has shown the the traditional form, magnesium oxide, is not bioavailable.
Magnes Res. 2001 Dec; 14(4): 257-62. Related Articles, Links
Bioavailability of US commercial magnesium preparations.
Firoz M, Graber M.
Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Northport, NY 11768, USA.
Magnesium deficiency is seen with some frequency in the outpatient setting and requires oral repletion or maintenance therapy. The purpose of this study was to measure the bioavailability of four commercially-available preparations of magnesium, and to test the claim that organic salts are more easily absorbed. Bioavailability was measured as the increment of urinary maginesium excretion in normal volunteers given approximately 21 mEq/day of the test preparations. Results indicated relatively poor bioavailability of magnesium oxide (fractional absorption 4 per cent) but significantly higher and equivalent bioavailability of magnesium chloride, magnesium lactate and magnesium aspartate. We conclude that there is relatively poor bioavailability of magnesium oxide, but greater and equivalent bioavailability of magnesium chloride, lactate, and aspartate. Inorganic magnesium salts, depending on the preparation, may have bioavailability equivalent to organic magnesium salts.
PMID: 11794633 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Unfortunately, many doctors still consult outdated manuals when prescribing magnesium supplements...and the old oxide persists in their minds.
So I have printed that study here, so interested patients can copy it and take to their doctor. Many people believe that 400mg of magnesium oxide is alot, but in reality only 8mg is actually absorbed..which is very little. That is the lowest reported figure for low magnesium containing foods-- one apple, one hard boiled egg, or 1oz of cheddar cheese. High foods include almonds
3oz=270mg, 1 cup of oatmeal=57 mg, and 1 cup of navy beans=108mg.
Recently I just looked up magnesium products on Puritan's Pride website, and saw some updating in the labeling. This is a very good trend and will help avoid confusion. I hope some other products follow this lead.
One sign that you are not getting your magnesium from your chosen product is loose stools or frank diarrhea. That means the magnesium is remaining in the GI tract, and creating a laxative effect. Either change products or lower the dose used. However, many people do not get diarrhea, especially if they are prone to constipation. Sometimes, they just seem "normal" instead. Others who are more prone to looseness will notice any little extra magnesium.
Sydney
10-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Wow! I have read all of these links on magnesium. Quite overwhelming. I have severe
FM and RSD. I ordered the mag. cream from Kirkland suggested by Mrs. D/ Mrs. D you also recommended ,mag lactate over citrate. Idid some additional research on the citrate. Looks like it is for constipaton? Also I read somewhere that it shouldn't be taken with calcium. I took a closer look at my oral supplement and see that I am taking calcium citrate(600mg) and Magnesium citrate 300 mg. also included is400 IU D. I have had chronic diarreha for weeks as I have been double dosing it daily.
Most of the labels don't say what kind of mag. it is. I called Life Extensions (good co.). Their product is citrate. Any suggestions for findng the mag. lactate ? Also, I take myo mag from Health Product distributors. It has numerous B vitamins (minimal amts.) 5 mg maganese and 440 L malic acid(from Mg malate and malic acid.
Any thoughts as to sources and quantities of good magnesium for severe FM
Sydney
Magnesium citrate is a laxative..but there is a threshold, for each person according to dose. Some people can tolerate it in lower doses, but others
can't.
Calcium in the citrate form, as well as the mag citrate, are favored for people with a history of calcium oxalate kidney stones (about 80% of stones are this type).
The citrate form is used to deliver calcium for these patients.
This is one place to find the magnesium lactate:
http://www.medshopexpress.com/081989.html
Magnesium lactate (MgL) is “Mag-Tab SR” : 84 mg (7 mEq) elemental magnesium. The salt MgL contains 12% Mg.
You can find SlowMag and its generics locally. There is practically no diarrhea risk with them. The generics are MagDelay and Mag64... I buy mine at WalMart--the pharmacist orders them for me, behind the counter. 60 are only about $6.00. Affordable and effective. Two per day is enough.
You don't have to buy the most expensive just because lactate showed up well in studies. The Magnesium Chloride in SlowMag works just as well.
And BTW...SlowMag (brand name) was formulated originally by the Searle company for use by doctors to treat magnesium deficiency. The patent is now owned by Purdue. It has been around a long time, as over the counter.
You can buy magnesium malate at Puritan's Pride:
http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=A62FD9FF450C4B3E84C41F426A973CA5&PID=195&CPID=1280&np=1
This is one I use sometimes, and my son all the time. But sometimes it gives my diarrhea, so I prefer the SlowMag.
However, the malic acid in this, is recommended for fibro patients:
Here is a website to explain this:
http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/171
So if you want to get more for your $$...you might try the Puritan product...
They have sales all the time, and are very quick and dependable. Their mailing fees remain the same low price
regardless of how much you order...I get alot of my standard yearly vits at their buy one get 2 free sales.
If I recall correctly, BonnieG used the taurate, because she found taurine
helpful for TS.
http://www.tourette-syndrome.com/holistic.htm
Certainly since the mag taurate is not common and hard to find, you
can supplement them separately...
Taurine itself is very inexpensive, but I don't know its availability in Australia.
I know in Canada some amino acids are restricted.
I don't think, there is much mag in each tablet of magnesium taurate.
Labeling for this product is confusing... I don't think it is 125mg of
magnesium...as that would be a huge capsule. I don't recall the size being that large. Elemental values for taurate are about 9% mag.
http://www.amazon.com/Cardiovascular-Research-Magnesium-Taurate-capsules/dp/B00014D5TS
All of the chelates give better absorption than the old oxide. The taurate was originally formulated for cardiovascular issues (arrythmias).
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/519
Certainly you can use them separately if you cannot find this product.
Thanks for your response, mrsd.
Yes, the Taurine is very expensive. Used not be able to find it here, but I've not looked in a couple of years. It's possibly available now. I used to buy a really good powder from an osteopath for my RLS. It was calcium/magnesium and some other things. It didn't have the taurine as the mag. but it was chelated magnesium. I just forget which one it was right now.
Anyway, thanks for the info.
Appreciated. :)
Chemar
10-09-2006, 05:29 PM
Hi Lara
we have never used the mag taurate as my son has been on the calcium/magnesium/zinc with separate taurine for years (in mg of each 1000/500/50 plus 500 each evening)
I do know that when we stop giving the taurine, he feels the difference with more frequent tics.
As MrsD said.......here taurine is relatively inexpensive and readily available
http://www.iherb.com may have reasonable shipping rates to Australia as they seem reasonable on all other things too...dont know if you are allowed to ship it into the country tho
I am going to post some papers on specific conditions and Magnesium
that I have found/been sent/ or stumbled onto. Some are from my old Mag
thread from OBT...
This one was sent to me this summer by Cara (jccglutenfree here).
Magnes Res. 2006 Mar;19(1):46-52.Click here to read Links
Improvement of neurobehavioral disorders in children supplemented with magnesium-vitamin B6. I. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorders.
* Mousain-Bosc M,
* Roche M,
* Polge A,
* Pradal-Prat D,
* Rapin J,
* Bali JP.
Explorations Fonctionnelles du Systeme Nerveux, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Caremeau, Nimes, France.
Some previous studies have reported the involvement of magnesium (Mg) deficiency in children with ADHD syndrome. In this work, 40 children with clinical symptoms of ADHD were followed clinically and biologically during a magnesium-vitamin B6 (Mg-B6) regimen (6 mg/kg/d Mg, 0.6 mg/kg/d vit-B6) which was set up for at least 8 weeks. Symptoms of ADHD (hyperactivity, hyperemotivity/ aggressiveness, lack of attention at school) were scored (0-4) at different times; in parallel, intraerythrocyte Mg2+ (Erc-Mg) and blood ionized Ca2+ (i-Ca) were measured. Children from the ADHD group showed significantly lower Erc-Mg values than control children (n = 36). In almost all cases of ADHD, Mg-B6 regimen for at least two months significantly modified the clinical symptoms of the disease: namely, hyperactivity and hyperemotivity/aggressiveness were reduced, school attention was improved. In parallel, the Mg-B6 regimen led to a significant increase in Erc-Mg values. When the Mg-B6 treatment was stopped, clinical symptoms of the disease reappeared in few weeks together with a decrease in Erc-Mg values. This study brings additional information about the therapeutic role of a Mg-B6 regimen in children with ADHD symptoms.
PMID: 16846100 [PubMed - in process]
and another for ADHD:
Ann Acad Med Stetin. 1998; 44: 297-314. Related Articles, Links
[The effect of deficiency of selected bioelements on hyperactivity in children with certain specified mental disorders]
[Article in Polish]
Starobrat-Hermelin B.
Oddzialu Psychiatrii Dzieci, Dzieckiem i Mlodzieza w Szczecinie.
The aim of my work was the answer to the following questions: how often does the deficiency of magnesium, copper, zinc, calcium, iron occur among hyperactive children in comparison with healthy children, deficiency of which of the considered bioelements is the most frequent, what is the effect of supplementation of deficit element on hyperactivity and does it depend on other certain disorders that coexist with hyperactivity? In a process of establishing the subject diagnosis I have followed the DSM IV criteria recognizing ADHD among examined ones. I have determined the deficiency of magnesium, copper, zinc, calcium, iron in the group of 116 children with diagnosed ADHD. Consequently, as a result, I have found out that shortage of above-mentioned bioelements occurs more often among hyperactive children than among those being healthy, and deficiency of magnesium is the most frequent in this respect. Further, I have divided the group of 110 children with magnesium deficiency into two groups according to the other mental disorders that coexist with ADHD: 1) the group where hyperactivity coexists with disorders typical for developmental age such as enuresis, tics, separation anxiety, stuttering, selective mutism (63 children); 2) the group where hyperactivity coexists with disruptive behaviour disorders: conduct disorder and oppositional defiant disorder (47 children). The content of magnesium, copper, zinc, calcium, iron has been determined respectively in blood (serum and red cells) and in hair by atomic absorption spectroscopy method in both groups accordingly. At the same time, the hyperactivity tests were carried out using Conner's Rating Scales for Parents and Teachers, Wender's Scale as well as Quotient of Development to Freedom from Distractibility. During the statistical analysis the inparametric tests have been used taking as a significance level p < 0.05. On the ground of obtained findings I have not stated any significant differences in bioelements content among hyperactive children in relation to other coexisting disorders, except for zinc. The zinc content in hair was higher among children with ADHD and disruptive behaviour disorder. The assessment of hyperactivity indicated the remarkably higher coefficient among children with coexisting behaviour disorders as compared to hyperactive children among whom, additionally, disorders typical for developmental age have occurred. The analysis of influence exerted by magnesium supplementation on hyperactivity has been carried out in the group of total 75 children with ADHD jointly with magnesium deficiency. The group of 50 children actually tested, apart from standard treatment have received the specified doses of magnesium preparations for 6 months on regular basis. The group of 25 children was left with standard treatment without additional magnesium. In both above-mentioned groups the content of bioelements and respectively ADHD level have been determined just before and after the test. The obtained results have clearly disclosed significant increase of magnesium, zinc, calcium content (Tab. 1) and respectively essential decrease of hyperactivity in the group of children treated with magnesium. At the same time, however, among the children given standard treatment without magnesium, hyperactivity has intensified (Tab. 3, 4). The findings herein presented indicate that it is necessary to take into consideration a possible bioelements deficiency among children with ADHD. Consequently, the accomplished study proves that there is a need of magnesium supplementation in ADHD children irrespectively of other mental disorders. The supplementation of that kind of magnesium supplementation together with standard traditional mode of treatment gives us the opportunity to extend the methods of therapy of ADHD children who are the "children of the risk" in connection with their educational, emotional and social problems.
PMID: 9857546 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
more for ADHD:
(B) Does the child of stomach aches, headaches or muscle pains, or is sleep difficult and restless? These symptoms often indicate a deficiency of magnesium or calcium. Hyperactive children become magnesium deficient for two reasons. First, like most American children, they consume less than the RDA of magnesium. Second, the high adrenaline levels associated with hyperactivity cause them to excrete excessive amounts of magnesium in the urine causing magnesium deficiency by depletion. Observational studies in Germany and in France reveal a high frequency of symptomatic magnesium deficiency in hyperactive children, especially those with headaches or abdominal pain. In my clinical practice I have found magnesium supplementation to be especially useful for sleep disturbances in children with ADHD, although the effects on hyperactive behavior are minimal. The dose needed is 100 milligrams per day for younger children and 200 milligrams for older children, taken at bedtime. If the child's diet is low in calcium, it may be necessary to add a calcium supplement, also taken at bedtime, 400 milligrams for younger children and 800 milligrams for older children. There is no evidence that calcium and magnesium interfere with each other's absorption or that a fixed ratio of calcium or magnesium must be administered to a child or on adult. A possible side effect of magnesium supplementation is diarrhea, whereas a possible side effect of calcium supplementation is constipation.
from http://www.mdheal.org/attention.htm
Magnesium and hearing:
J Am Acad Audiol. 2003 May-Jun; 14(4): 202-12. Related Articles, Links
Magnesium and hearing.
Cevette MJ, Vormann J, Franz K.
Department of Otolaryngology Head and Neck Surgery/Audiology, Mayo Clinic, Scottsdale, AZ 85260, USA. mcevette@mayo.edu
The last several decades have revealed clinical and experimental data regarding the importance of magnesium (Mg) in hearing. Increased susceptibility to noise damage, ototoxicity, and auditory hyperexcitability are linked to states of Mg deficiency. Evidence for these processes has come slowly and direct effects have remained elusive because plasma Mg levels do not always correlate with its deficiency. Despite the major progress in the understanding of cochlear mechanical and auditory nerve function, the neurochemical and pharmacologic role of Mg is not clear. The putative mechanism suggests that Mg deficiency may contribute to a metabolic cellular cascade of events. Mg deficiency leads to an increased permeability of the calcium channel in the hair cells with a consequent over influx of calcium, an increased release of glutamate via exocytosis, and over stimulation of NMDA receptors on the auditory nerve. This paper provides a current overview of relevant Mg metabolism and deficiency and its influence on hearing.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial
PMID: 12940704 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Magnesium and Diabetes... this is a very important one...
Endocrinol Metab Clin North Am. 1995 Sep;24(3):623-41. Related Articles, Links
Disorders of magnesium metabolism.
Nadler JL, Rude RK.
Department of Diabetes, Endocrinology and Metabolism, City of Hope Medical Center, Duarte, California, USA.
Magnesium depletion is more common than previously thought. It seems to be especially prevalent in patients with diabetes mellitus. It is usually caused by losses from the kidney or gastrointestinal tract. A patient with magnesium depletion may present with neuromuscular symptoms, hypokalemia, hypocalcemia, or cardiovascular complication. Physicians should maintain a high index of suspicion for magnesium depletion in patients at high risk and should implement therapy early.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial
PMID: 8575413 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
and also:
Magnesium and diabetes
Diabetes is a disease resulting in insufficient production and/or inefficient use of insulin. Insulin is a hormone made by the pancreas. Insulin helps convert sugar and starches in food into energy to sustain life. There are two types of diabetes: type 1 and type 2. Type 1 diabetes is most often diagnosed in children and adolescents, and results from the body's inability to make insulin. Type 2 diabetes, which is sometimes referred to as adult-onset diabetes, is the most common form of diabetes. It is usually seen in adults and is most often associated with an inability to use the insulin made by the pancreas. Obesity is a risk factor for developing type 2 diabetes. In recent years, rates of type 2 diabetes have increased along with the rising rates of obesity.
Magnesium plays an important role in carbohydrate metabolism. It may influence the release and activity of insulin, the hormone that helps control blood glucose (sugar) levels [13]. Low blood levels of magnesium (hypomagnesemia) are frequently seen in individuals with type 2 diabetes. Hypomagnesemia may worsen insulin resistance, a condition that often precedes diabetes, or may be a consequence of insulin resistance. Individuals with insulin resistance do not use insulin efficiently and require greater amounts of insulin to maintain blood sugar within normal levels. The kidneys possibly lose their ability to retain magnesium during periods of severe hyperglycemia (significantly elevated blood glucose). The increased loss of magnesium in urine may then result in lower blood levels of magnesium [4]. In older adults, correcting magnesium depletion may improve insulin response and action [42].
The Nurses' Health Study (NHS) and the Health Professionals' Follow-up Study (HFS) follow more than 170,000 health professionals through biennial questionnaires. Diet was first evaluated in 1980 in the NHS and in 1986 in the HFS, and dietary assessments have been completed every 2 to 4 years since. Information on the use of dietary supplements, including multivitamins, is also collected. As part of these studies, over 127,000 research subjects (85,060 women and 42,872 men) with no history of diabetes, cardiovascular disease, or cancer at baseline were followed to examine risk factors for developing type 2 diabetes. Women were followed for 18 years; men were followed for 12 years. Over time, the risk for developing type 2 diabetes was greater in men and women with a lower magnesium intake. This study supports the dietary recommendation to increase consumption of major food sources of magnesium, such as whole grains, nuts, and green leafy vegetables [43].
The Iowa Women's Health Study has followed a group of older women since 1986. Researchers from this study examined the association between women's risk of developing type 2 diabetes and intake of carbohydrates, dietary fiber, and dietary magnesium. Dietary intake was estimated by a food frequency questionnaire, and incidence of diabetes throughout 6 years of follow-up was determined by asking participants if they had been diagnosed by a doctor as having diabetes. Based on baseline dietary intake assessment only, researchers' findings suggested that a greater intake of whole grains, dietary fiber, and magnesium decreased the risk of developing diabetes in older women [44].
The Women's Health Study was originally designed to evaluate the benefits versus risks of low-dose aspirin and vitamin E supplementation in the primary prevention of cardiovascular disease and cancer in women 45 years of age and older. In an examination of almost 40,000 women participating in this study, researchers also examined the association between magnesium intake and incidence of type 2 diabetes over an average of 6 years. Among women who were overweight, the risk of developing type 2 diabetes was significantly greater among those with lower magnesium intake [45]. This study also supports the dietary recommendation to increase consumption of major food sources of magnesium, such as whole grains, nuts, and green leafy vegetables.
On the other hand, the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) study did not find any association between dietary magnesium intake and the risk for type 2 diabetes. During 6 years of follow-up, ARIC researchers examined the risk for type 2 diabetes in over 12,000 middle-aged adults without diabetes at baseline examination. In this study, there was no statistical association between dietary magnesium intake and incidence of type 2 diabetes in either black or white research subjects [46]. It can be confusing to read about studies that examine the same issue but have different results. Before reaching a conclusion on a health issue, scientists conduct and evaluate many studies. Over time, they determine when results are consistent enough to suggest a conclusion. They want to be sure they are providing correct recommendations to the public.
Several clinical studies have examined the potential benefit of supplemental magnesium on metabolic control of type 2 diabetes. In one such study, 63 subjects with below normal serum magnesium levels received either 2.5 grams of oral magnesium chloride daily "in liquid form" (providing 300 mg elemental magnesium per day) or a placebo. At the end of the 16-week study period, those who received the magnesium supplement had higher blood levels of magnesium and improved metabolic control of diabetes, as suggested by lower Hemoglobin A1C levels, than those who received a placebo [47]. Hemoglobin A1C is a test that measures overall control of blood glucose over the previous 2 to 3 months, and is considered by many doctors to be the single most important blood test for diabetics.
In another study, 128 patients with poorly controlled type 2 diabetes were randomized to receive a placebo or a supplement with either 500 mg or 1000 mg of magnesium oxide (MgO) for 30 days. All patients were also treated with diet or diet plus oral medication to control blood glucose levels. Magnesium levels increased in the group receiving 1000 mg magnesium oxide per day (equal to 600 mg elemental magnesium per day) but did not significantly change in the placebo group or the group receiving 500 mg of magnesium oxide per day (equal to 300 mg elemental magnesium per day). However, neither level of magnesium supplementation significantly improved blood glucose control [48].
These studies provide intriguing results but also suggest that additional research is needed to better explain the association between blood magnesium levels, dietary magnesium intake, and type 2 diabetes. In 1999, the American Diabetes Association (ADA) issued nutrition recommendations for diabetics stating that "…routine evaluation of blood magnesium level is recommended only in patients at high risk for magnesium deficiency. Levels of magnesium should be repleted (replaced) only if hypomagnesemia can be demonstrated" [21].
from: http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp
Magnesium and exercise depletion:
Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2002;42(6):533-63. Related Articles, Links
Magnesium and exercise.
Bohl CH, Volpe SL.
University of Massachusetts, Department of Nutrition, Amherst 01003, USA.
Magnesium is an essential element that regulates membrane stability and neuromuscular, cardiovascular, immune, and hormonal functions and is a critical cofactor in many metabolic reactions. The Dietary Reference Intake for magnesium for adults is 310 to 420 mg/day. However, the intake of magnesium in humans is often suboptimal. Magnesium deficiency may lead to changes in gastrointestinal, cardiovascular, and neuromuscular function. Physical exercise may deplete magnesium, which, together with a marginal dietary magnesium intake, may impair energy metabolism efficiency and the capacity for physical work. Magnesium assessment has been a challenge because of the absence of an accurate and convenient assessment method. Recently, magnesium has been touted as an agent for increasing athletic performance. This article reviews the various studies that have been conducted to investigate the relationship of magnesium and exercise.
Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial
PMID: 12487419 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Magnesium and age:
Magnes Res. 2001 Dec;14(4):283-90. Links
Prevalence of hypomagnesemia in an unselected German population of 16,000 individuals.
* Schimatschek HF,
* Rempis R.
Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology of Nutrition, University of Hohenheim, Stuttgart, Germany. schimats@uni-hohenheim.de
Based on a recently proposed reference range for plasma/serum Mg with its lower limit set at 0.76 mmol Mg/L the frequency of hypomagnesemia was evaluated in an unselected population group of about 16,000 individuals in total as well as in subgroups built according to sex, age and state of health. Hypomagnesemia was present in about 14.5 percent of all persons with generally higher frequencies in females and outpatients. In addition a slight but significant effect of age became overt. There was a continuous increase in the frequency of hypomagnesemia until the 29th year of life followed by a steady state. In elderlies, especially in old ladies, highest prevalence of up to one third of this subgroup occurred. Suboptimal levels were detected in 33.7 per cent of the population under study. These data clearly demonstrate that the Mg supply of the German population needs increased attention.
PMID: 11794636 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Magnesium and celiac disease:
Wiad Lek. 2001;54(9-10):522-31. Links
[Reasons for magnesium deficiency in children with coeliac disease]
[Article in Polish]
* Rujner J,
* Wojtasik A,
* Syczewska M,
* Stolarczyk A,
* Kowalska M,
* Iwanow K,
* Kunachowicz H,
* Socha J.
Instytut Pomnik-Centrum Zdrowia Dziecka w Warszawie.
Magnesium (Mg) deficiency is often noted in patients with coeliac disease (CD). The aim of the study was the analysis of the reasons of this deficiency in children with CD, diagnosed according to ESPGAN criteria. MATERIAL: The study was performed on 41 patients aged 6-18 years adhering to strict gluten-free diet GFD(+) for mean 11 years, with normal small intestine mucosa, and IgAEmA(-), and on 32 patients aged 5-17 years on gluten containing diet, with classical CD, silent CD or after gluten challenge--GFD(-). In this group the villous atrophy of the small intestine and IgAEmA(+) were observed. In 18 of these patients Mg deficiency was found using Mg-loading test (30 mmol/1.73 m2). METHODS: The following parameters were analysed: type of the disease, observance of gluten-free diet, sex, and living place. Mg, Ca, Na, protein, fat, and dietary fiber intake was assessed using food frequency questionnaire method, and steatorrhea using faecal fat excretion (g/24 h). RESULTS: The frequency of Mg deficiency was similar in both sexes, occasionally in children from small towns (4.5%), and more often in children from big cities (31.5%), and village (34.4%). Dietary Mg intake below RDA was observed in 23% of children from GFD(+) group, in 19% from GFD(-) one, and in 17.6% in children with Mg deficiency. Insufficient Mg intake was found in 18.2% of children from small towns, in 17.6% from big cities, and in 12.5% from villages; Ca in 36.6%, 58.8%, and 59.3%, and protein in 18.2%, 35.3%, and in 34.4% respectively. In all groups of children high intake of fat and Na was observed. Dietary fiber intake was within the recommended values. All children with classical CD had increased fat excretion (mean 25.9 g/24 h), in other patients it was within normal values [GFD(+) mean 1.95 g/24 h, in GFD(-) without diarrhoea 1.7 g/24 h. CONCLUSIONS: Magnesium deficiency in children with CD depends on the form of the disease, adhering to GFD, diarrhoea with steatorrhea, and/or low Mg intake with the diet.
PMID: 11816296 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Poor food choices in USA:
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2003 Aug;157(8):789-96. Related Articles, Links
Reported consumption of low-nutrient-density foods by American children and adolescents: nutritional and health correlates, NHANES III, 1988 to 1994.
Kant AK.
Department of Family, Nutrition, and Exercise Sciences, Queens College of the City University of New York, Flushing 11367, USA. ashima_kant@qc.edu
OBJECTIVE: To examine the contribution of foods of modest nutritional value to the diets of American children and adolescents. METHODS: The data were from the third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey, 1988 to 1994, and included 4852 children and adolescents, aged 8 to 18 years. Foods reported in the 24-hour dietary recall were grouped into the following low-nutrient-density (LND) food categories: visible fat; table sweeteners, candy, and sweetened beverages; baked and dairy desserts; salty snacks; and miscellaneous. The independent association of the number of LND foods mentioned in the recall with intake of food groups, macronutrients, micronutrients, and body mass index was examined by means of regression procedures to adjust for multiple covariates. RESULTS: The LND foods contributed more than 30% of daily energy, with sweeteners and desserts jointly accounting for nearly 25%. Intakes of total energy and percentage of energy from carbohydrate and fat related positively, but percentage of energy from protein and dietary fiber (in grams) related inversely to the reported number of LND foods (P<.05). The reported number of LND foods was a negative predictor (P<.001) of the amount of nutrient-dense foods reported. The mean amount of reported intake of several micronutrients-vitamins A, B6, and folate, and the minerals calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc-declined (P<.05) with increasing tertiles of reported number of LND foods. The LND food reporting was not a significant predictor of body mass index. CONCLUSION: High LND food reporting was related to higher energy intake but lower amounts of the 5 major food groups and most micronutrients.
PMID: 12912785 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
and also:
J Am Diet Assoc. 2002 Apr;102(4):530-6. Related Articles, Links
Using Dietary Reference Intake-based methods to estimate the prevalence of inadequate nutrient intake among school-aged children.
Suitor CW, Gleason PM.
Mathematica Policy Research, Princeton, NJ, USA.
OBJECTIVE: To estimate the prevalence of inadequate usual intakes of nutrients by school-aged children. DESIGN: A descriptive study using data from the US Department of Agriculture 1994 to 1996 Continuing Survey of Food Intake by Individuals. Each subject provided two 24-hour recalls. We adjusted for day-to-day variation in nutrient intake and estimated the percentage of children with intakes below the Estimated Average Requirement (EAR) using the Software for Intake Distribution Estimation Program. SUBJECTS: A national sample of noninstitutionalized children aged 6 to 18 years (N=2,692). STATISTICAL ANALYSES: Chi2 tests showed that background characteristics or percentages with intakes below the EAR were the same across the 6 gender-age and racial/ethnic groups. The SUDAAN statistical package was used to account for the complex sample design. RESULTS: Usual intakes were more favorable for 5 B vitamins and iron than for the other nutrients examined. High percentages of children had intakes below the EAR for vitamin E. Many children aged 9 years and older had intakes below the EAR for folate and magnesium. Females aged 9 years and older had low calcium intakes relative to the Adequate Intake value. Females aged 14 to 18 years were at highest risk of usual intakes that did not meet the EARs. Few males in this age group met the EAR for vitamin E or magnesium. APPLICATIONS: Females aged 14 to 18, in particular, should be targeted for efforts to improve nutrient intakes. Studies should monitor children's usual nutrient intakes after adjusting for day-to-day variation.
PMID: 11985410 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Wearing contacts? Have corneal issues?
Cornea. 2003 Jul;22(5):448-56.Click here to read Links
Corneal changes in magnesium-deficient rats.
* Gong H,
* Takami Y,
* Kitaoka T,
* Amemiya T.
Department of Ophlamology and Visual Sciences, Nagasaki Univerity School of Medicine, Japan. hgong@net.nagasaki-u.ac.jp
PURPOSE: The purpose of the current study is to investigate the cornea in magnesium (Mg) deficiency and elucidate the local function of trace elements. METHODS: After delivery, mother Wistar Kyoto rats were fed a low Mg diet containing 0.1 mg Mg/100 g diet with all other nutrients and distilled and deionized water. Infant rats were suckled by their mothers for 21 days and then fed the same Mg-deficient diet. Control mother rats were fed commercial rat pellets containing 24 mg Mg/100 g diet and all other nutrients. The corneas were examined by electron microscopy at 6 weeks of age. RESULTS: In the Mg-deficient rats, serum Mg levels were significantly lower and calcium (Ca) levels higher than in the control rats. The corneas of Mg-deficient rats showed decreased microvilli and microplicae in the epithelial cells of the most superficial layer, increased mitochondria with abnormal shapes in the basal cells in the epithelium, condensed chromatin in the nuclei of the basal cells, and high density deposits and macrophage-like cells in the subepithelium of the stroma. Mg-deficient rats had pentagonal and square endothelial cells. CONCLUSION: Since Mg2+ has biologic functions including structural stabilization of protein, nucleic acids, and cell membranes, Mg deficiency may induce changes in the corneal surface and nuclei of corneal epithelial and endothelial cells. These disturbances may interfere with protection from infections, foreign bodies, dryness, and direct exposure to air. Thus, Mg is essential for the cornea to maintain normal structure and function.
PMID: 12827051 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
This is the only paper on PubMed so far about Mag/Tourettes...
some will recognize an old friend..the author of this paper:
Med Hypotheses. 2002 Jan;58(1):47-60.Click here to read Links
The central role of magnesium deficiency in Tourette's syndrome: causal relationships between magnesium deficiency, altered biochemical pathways and symptoms relating to Tourette's syndrome and several reported comorbid conditions.
* Grimaldi BL.
BonnieGr@aol.com
Prior studies have suggested a common etiology involved in Tourette's syndrome and several comorbid conditions and symptomatology. Reportedly, current medications used in Tourette's syndrome have intolerable side-effects or are ineffective for many patients. After thoroughly researching the literature, I hypothesize that magnesium deficiency may be the central precipitating event and common pathway for the subsequent biochemical effects on substance P, kynurenine, NMDA receptors, and vitamin B6 that may result in the symptomatology of Tourette's syndrome and several reported comorbid conditions. These comorbid conditions and symptomatology include allergy, asthma, autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, coprolalia, copropraxia, anxiety, depression, restless leg syndrome, migraine, self-injurious behavior, autoimmunity, rage, bruxism, seizure, heart arrhythmia, heightened sensitivity to sensory stimuli, and an exaggerated startle response. Common possible environmental and genetic factors are discussed, as well as biochemical mechanisms. Clinical studies to determine the medical efficacy for a comprehensive magnesium treatment option for Tourette's syndrome need to be conducted to make this relatively safe, low side-effect treatment option available to doctors and their patients. Copyright 2002 Harcourt Publishers Ltd.
PMID: 11863398 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Bruxism= grinding of the teeth, esp at night while sleeping.
http://www.is.wayne.edu/mnissani/bruxnet/ploctran.htm
Magnesium and the heart:
1: Heart Fail Rev. 2006 Mar;11(1):35-44.Click here to read Links
The nerve-heart connection in the pro-oxidant response to Mg-deficiency.
* Tejero-Taldo MI,
* Kramer JH,
* Mak IuT,
* Komarov AM,
* Weglicki WB.
Dept. of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology, Div. of Experimental Medicine, The George Washington University Medical Center, Washington, DC 20037, USA. phymit@gwumc.edu
Magnesium is a micronutrient essential for the normal functioning of the cardiovascular system, and Mg deficiency (MgD) is frequently associated in the clinical setting with chronic pathologies such as CHF, diabetes, hypertension, and other pathologies. Animal models of MgD have demonstrated a systemic pro-inflammatory/pro-oxidant state, involving multiple tissues/organs including neuronal, hematopoietic, cardiovascular, and gastrointestinal systems; during later stages of MgD, a cardiomyopathy develops which may result from a cascade of inflammatory events. In rodent models of dietary MgD, a significant rise in circulating levels of proinflammatory neuropeptides such as substance P (SP) and calcitonin gene-related peptide among others, was observed within days (1-7) of initiating the Mg-restricted diet, and implicated a neurogenic trigger for the subsequent inflammatory events; this early "neurogenic inflammation" phase may be mediated in part, by the Mg-gated N: -methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor/channel complex. Deregulation of the NMDA receptor may trigger the abrupt release of neuronal SP from the sensory-motor C-fibers to promote the subsequent pro-inflammatory changes: elevations in circulating inflammatory cells, inflammatory cytokines, histamine, and PGE(2) levels, as well as formation of nitric oxide, reactive oxygen species, lipid peroxidation products, and depletion of key endogenous antioxidants. Concurrent elevations of tissue CD14, a high affinity receptor for lipopolyssacharide, suggest that intestinal permeability may be compromised leading to endotoxemia. If exposure to these early (1-3 weeks MgD) inflammatory/pro-oxidant events becomes prolonged, this might lead to impaired cardiac function, and when co-existing with other pathologies, may enhance the risk of developing chronic heart failure.
PMID: 16819576 [PubMed - in process]
Magnesium and seizures... including other variables:
http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/provoke_nutrition.html
Magnesium and osteoporosis:
http://www.mdschoice.com/text/abstracts/Magnesium/magosteo.htm
and while this is relatively new in the lay media...it is not new in the research fields...
Magnes Res. 1988 Jul;1(1-2):85-7. Related Articles, Links
Recent data on magnesium and osteoporosis.
Cohen L.
Department of Medicine B, Faculty of Medicine, Technion-Israel Institute of Technology, Lady Davis Carmel Hospital, Haifa, Israel.
Larger and more perfect bone mineral crystals and decreased bone magnesium concentration were found in postmenopausal osteoporosis, senile osteoporosis, alcoholic osteoporosis and osteoporosis associated with thalassaemia. The decreased bone magnesium concentration and the increased retention of magnesium in the magnesium load test suggest magnesium deficiency in post-menoposal osteoporosis, probably caused by magnesium malabsorption.
Publication Types:
* Review
PMID: 3079205 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
There have been suggestions that chronic low magnesium levels contribute to the formation of bone spurs (the bane of arthritis patients, and spinal patients). I could not at this time find good papers to support this theory, but it remains active on the net.
Hi MrsD! I'm thrilled to have found you... or rather... thrilled that you found me. :D
Now that I know you're here, I'm linking the gs board over to here for some of my food study threads. When I do vit.s and minerals, I only mostly cover the basics and then post the foods and how to cook them.
So, here's a link to the foods and how to cook them for anyone here who might be interested. :)
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?p=36071#post36071
As usual you always find very important/basic information, that is very
useful.
It is much harder to get magnesium these days for many people, since
whole foods are the basic sources. (people eat and run, and do fast food).
I agree MrsD. There has to be a way to help people make themselves some quick, quality meals and forget about fast foods!
Here is a link to a breakfast that includes nuts... but not too many. :)
It is fast and easy and wonderfully satisfying. It received a good review from someone who tried it, within a day of my posting it. ;)
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showpost.php?p=34143&postcount=2
you forgot the link ( I do this occasionally myself:p )
I'm SO sorry about that!:o
Just to make up for it, I've posted some roasted nut recipes on the nut thread and included one with Turmeric... seeing as everyone's been thinking about it here lately anyway. :)
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?p=36138#post36138
Laurensmom
12-28-2006, 12:02 AM
great info!
Does anyone know if potassium is also helpful? I ask because it has benefits for lowering blood pressure, and I know there is a beneficial connection between antihypertensive meds and ts.
Here's a bit of info:
http://www.healthcastle.com/potassium-high-blood-pressure.shtml
http://www.healthcastle.com/high-blood-pressure-diet.shtml
Seems the dietary recommendations are healthy regardless. See page 15 here > http:/e/www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/hbp/dash/new_dash.pdf
Thanks all,
:)
froglady
12-28-2006, 10:18 AM
mrsd, and others, has anyone tried the SHAKLEE brand OsteoMatrix supplement with Calcium Magnesium, Vitamin D etc? Its ingredients list says: Microcrystaline Cellulose, Hydroxypropl Methycellouse, Croscarmellose Sodium, Titanium Dioxide, Soy Lecithin, carnuba Wax. I used it for a while and then just forgot to take it. It is supposed to be a natural form?
Thanks, Gaye
I looked up your product, and as usual Magnesium oxide is listed first under magnesium. When products do this, combine 3 types of magnesium they don't tell you how much of each you are getting.
here is a link to the label ingredients:
https://www.shaklee.com/pws/library/products/20681_label.pdf
(use the magnifier in your tool bar to enlarge this PDF)
The ingredient list contains the newer mix of support minerals for bone
health. And be advised to read carefully...you have to take FOUR tablets to
get what is on that label.
Here is a monograph to read about safely using high dose calcium:
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Uses/0,3915,8720%7CCaltrate+600+Plus+D,00.html
There are limits to absorption of calcium in the GI tract, so dividing up the tablets thruout the day may give you more effect.
I suspect the elemental magnesium is low in this mixed product. Most mixtures use inexpensive mag oxide, and very little of the chelates. Chelated magnesium is typically a very large tablet, so size also enters into the decision.
froglady
01-01-2007, 06:06 PM
Thanks mrsD, I appreciated your help. Took me a bit to get back due to hollidays. Have a wonderful New Year! Gaye
You are absolutely right.
Potassium is very important, and when dieting, many people feel fatigue because they become low in potassium. V8 juice is very high in this, and I use it after a workout. (don't like the sodium, but when one sweats alot, it seems less harmful then!)
Some people have low potassium too if they have a mild genetic renal tubular acidosis problem. Also having frequent diarrhea leads to potassium loss that way.
Gatorade BTW is NOT a good source of potassium (this is often misunderstood).
Thanks for the reminders and links.
1/2 of a cantaloupe has 1,400 milligrams BTW! ;)
wasabi
02-15-2007, 05:56 PM
I've very much enjoyed reading through this thread. I also believe that magnesium supplementation can be extremely helpful for many people.
For those who might be interested, magnesium taurate is available through Amazon. The company that makes it is called Cardiovascular Research Ltd.
Chemar
02-15-2007, 06:37 PM
Magnesium Taurate by cardiovascular research can also be purchased at the Vitamin Shoppe Stores or from their website
to become a guinea pig for a new product.
Ionic Fizz Magnesium Plus. I was surfing the net a couple of days ago and
ran across this product.
I bought it locally at Whole Foods (they only had one left) and it comes with
a large flyer/handout. It appears similar to the product Calm on the surface, but it has
an effervescent base, which appeals to me (effervescent products can enhance absorption...speed it up...and in the case of magnesium that would be very good, and spare the laxative side effects).
I liked the other ingredients in it too. The silica and boron are taylored to
arthritis sufferers/fibro patients/people with osteoporosis.
I'll let you all know on this thread, after a month!
If this spares the "laxative" effect for me--- to which I am very sensitive--
I will be back with a glowing review! :D
There is another version called Ionic Fizz Calcium Plus. It has 25% of daily
calcium in it...but the maker recommends using the Magnesium Plus daily for 90 days before trying the other! This product is flavored, and not hard to take.
I bought it locally, but it is available for much less $$ online. Vitacost and our friend iherb both have the larger tub for the same price as I paid for a smaller size.
It has other nutrients in it too:
here is a listing of ingredients:
http://www.pureessencelabs.com/pdf/if_mag_supp.pdf
I will come back later with my own opinion about this product! ;)
NowIsAll
03-26-2007, 10:47 PM
I saw a alternative medicine consultant. I informed her that when under great stress my blood pressure rises sometimes to the point of svere hypertension. However, when I use the conventional medicines it comes back to normal but if I continue on them I go to low.
She recommended and I bought Peter Gillham Natural Vitality Natural Calm (Magnesium 615 mg {elemental from magnesium citrate} ) . . . I have taken 1 teaspoon so far.
Now on reading some of the post of this thread I realize that "citrate" is a laxative.
Please tell me if I have made a bad choice as just last week my general doctor told me I have to start practising kegel exercises to strengthen my muscles.
Should I discontinue this Natural Calm. If so what is the right type of magnesium I should use?
Chemar
03-26-2007, 11:05 PM
my husband (who also has high BP ) uses the Natural Calm Magnesium and has found it very beneficial
a lot of parents with kids who have tics or tourette syndrome are using the Kid's Calm with success too
the citrate is laxative but if you use only the minimum dose of 1 teaspoon per day (evening before bed) it shouldnt cause digestive woes....I know that the general feeling is to increase dose until it becomes laxative and then move down a bit in doseage
does not get absorbed. I think the general rule is that if you are going to
the bathroom more or alot, you are in the "losing" category.
Many supplements give partial absorption. I would just caution you to understand that some of the magnesium is probably not getting in. This is true with calcium too. So don't think you are getting 100% of the elemental on the
labels, and count on that number.
I am doing well with the Ionic Fizz. I seem to get loose after about 5 days on it, so I skip a day here and there now. I can feel much less tension in my muscles.
I use that symptom as well as improved night sleep as therapeutic indicators.
I find I am much less tense too.
Don't count on magnesium oxide to provide much. But all the other forms, do
have absorption. The lactate was tested at very high, but, hey, who drives Lexus here? I am content with my Toyota! If you get my drift.;)
...my general doctor told me I have to start practising kegel exercises to strengthen my muscles.
Should I discontinue this Natural Calm. If so what is the right type of magnesium I should use?
I am wondering why you are worried about kegels?
Are you losing a bit of pee? If so I would suggest cutting out all dairy.
I kegeled like crazy to no avail but the pee drops (after my first baby) never stopped. Once I got rid of dairy it disappeared like magic.
After a year of being dairy free, I put some goat/sheep feta back in my diet for a week. By the end of the week I had pee drips again. It took the last week or so of being dairy free again for them to stop.
Dairy is also the reason for enuresis in many children. This is known and documented in scientific studies... and applies to at least 5 children I know, including my own daughter.
Chemar
04-04-2007, 08:35 AM
no sure if it has been mentioned yet on this thread.........
Kirkman labs makes a magnesium sulfate cream that I have heard very good reports on.
I am planning to get some for those times when my son would prefer a cream to an Epsom Salts bath
etech
04-07-2007, 11:01 AM
I saw a alternative medicine consultant. I informed her that when under great stress my blood pressure rises sometimes to the point of svere hypertension. However, when I use the conventional medicines it comes back to normal but if I continue on them I go to low.
She recommended and I bought Peter Gillham Natural Vitality Natural Calm (Magnesium 615 mg {elemental from magnesium citrate} ) . . . I have taken 1 teaspoon so far.
Now on reading some of the post of this thread I realize that "citrate" is a laxative.
Please tell me if I have made a bad choice as just last week my general doctor told me I have to start practising kegel exercises to strengthen my muscles.
Should I discontinue this Natural Calm. If so what is the right type of magnesium I should use?
Any magnesium at high doses is a laxative. Mag citrate is cheap and adsorbed well especially when compared to mag oxide. Take a smaller dosage twice a day rather then one large dose.
I like the powder as compared to the pills.
wasabi
04-09-2007, 03:29 PM
mrsd,
Thanks for the information on Ionic-Fizz Magnesium Plus. Based on your positive experience, I went and got a small container of it to try. I will let you know how it goes. Having Lyme disease, I have some muscles in my low back and hips that just won't relax no matter how deeply and how often I massage them. I get magnesium oxide and magnesium glycinate from my multi and I take some magnesium taurate on top of that, but it's still not enough.
NowIsAll
04-11-2007, 12:15 PM
OK. I was brave. I took the mag.
As it stands I only need to take 1 teaspoon once a day or at night.
In terms of the kegel exercises, I am not having any problems with my urine, however my doctor suggested as a result of a recent accident (back injury)that I needed to strengthen my abdominal muscles etc.
The funny thing. I have not done any exercises, lol. Still doing heat treatments.
Laurensmom
04-14-2007, 07:50 PM
Just giving this a nudge.
Laurie
04-19-2007, 01:04 AM
I just scanned through this thread and then looked at the label on the cal/mag product that we are using. It contains Mg Carbonate and Mag Hydroxide in a liquid form. Should I ditch it and buy a different product? I can't find much info on any of these forms of mag.
Thanks,
Laurie
wasabi
04-23-2007, 10:00 AM
Laurie,
I am not familiar with a product such as you describe. What is it called?
I have been taking Ionic-Fizz Magnesium Plus for two weeks now. I get this product at my local health food store. It is also readily available from the internet. I have a number of muscles in my neck, back, hips, and arms that have always been very hard and tight. With a lot of self-massage, most of them have gotten at least 50% better. I think in another two weeks, they will be pretty much normal.
I just scanned through this thread and then looked at the label on the cal/mag product that we are using. It contains Mg Carbonate and Mag Hydroxide in a liquid form. Should I ditch it and buy a different product? I can't find much info on any of these forms of mag.
Thanks,
Laurie
back to this thread.
I'm looking around PubMed today for data on this and another question.
This is a newer paper than I quoted earlier:
: Magnes Res. 2005 Dec;18(4):215-23.Click here to read Links
Study of magnesium bioavailability from ten organic and inorganic Mg salts in Mg-depleted rats using a stable isotope approach.
* Coudray C,
* Rambeau M,
* Feillet-Coudray C,
* Gueux E,
* Tressol JC,
* Mazur A,
* Rayssiguier Y.
Centre de Recherche en Nutrition Humaine d'Auvergne, Laboratoire des Maladies Metaboliques et Micronutriments, INRA de Theix/Clermont-Ferrand, Saint-Genes-Champanelle, France. coudray@ensam.inra.fr
Literature data on the bioavailability of various Mg forms provide scarce information on the best Mg salt to be used in animal and human supplementation. This study aimed to investigate the bioavailability of different forms of Mg in rats using Mg stable isotopes. Eighty male Wistar rats aged 6 weeks were fed a semi-purified Mg-depleted diet for three weeks. The rats were then randomised into ten groups and received, for two more weeks, the same diet repleted with Mg (550 mg Mg/kg) as: oxide, chloride, sulphate, carbonate, acetate, pidolate, citrate, gluconate, lactate or aspartate. After 10 days of Mg-repleted diet, the rats received orally 1.8 mg of an enriched 26Mg. Faeces and urine were then collected for 4 consecutive days. Isotope ratios in faeces and urine were determined. The Mg absorption values obtained varied from 50% to 67%. Organic Mg salts were slightly more available than inorganic Mg salts. Mg gluconate exhibited the highest Mg bioavailability of the ten Mg salts studied. Urinary 26Mg excretion varied from 0.20 mg to 0.33 mg, and feeding with the organic pidolate, citrate, gluconate and aspartate salts resulted in higher urinary 26Mg excretion than with inorganic salts. Ultimately, 26Mg retention was higher in the rats receiving the organic salts such as gluconate, lactate and aspartate than in those receiving the inorganic salts. Taken together, these results indicate that 26Mg is sufficiently bioavailable from the ten different Mg salts studied in the present experiment, although Mg gluconate exhibited the highest bioavailability under these experimental conditions.
PMID: 16548135 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
This site give a graph showing absolute % content of some magnesium preparations:
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/magnesium.asp
You can see that inorganic salts have higher ratios, but according to some
testing being done, have lower absorption ranges.
Typically magnesium hydroxide is in Milk of Magnesia...typically it is not a good source of magnesium, as it is fundamentally a laxative. That means it remains in the GI tract and causes water to enter the gut and effect evacuation.
But people differ. Very constipated people do not mind, if some laxative actions occur. Sensitive people would be troubled by it.
If you have a positive response, feel better, etc..then you are probably getting enough for you. Relaxing muscles, less tension, and sleeping better are signs that magnesium is working for you.
I do like the Ionic Fizz too, but it does loosen me up if I use it every day.
There are also magnesium glycinate products. (not mentioned in the article above)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7815675
Data from this study support the suggestion that some portion of magnesium diglycinate is absorbed intact, probably via a dipeptide transport pathway. Magnesium diglycinate may be a good alternative to commonly used magnesium supplements in patients with intestinal resection.
Magnesium gluconate is available OTC as Magonate.
Here is an older article:
Magnes Res. 2001 Dec;14(4):257-62. Links
Bioavailability of US commercial magnesium preparations.
* Firoz M,
* Graber M.
Department of Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Northport, NY 11768, USA.
Magnesium deficiency is seen with some frequency in the outpatient setting and requires oral repletion or maintenance therapy. The purpose of this study was to measure the bioavailability of four commercially-available preparations of magnesium, and to test the claim that organic salts are more easily absorbed. Bioavailability was measured as the increment of urinary maginesium excretion in normal volunteers given approximately 21 mEq/day of the test preparations. Results indicated relatively poor bioavailability of magnesium oxide (fractional absorption 4 per cent) but significantly higher and equivalent bioavailability of magnesium chloride, magnesium lactate and magnesium aspartate. We conclude that there is relatively poor bioavailability of magnesium oxide, but greater and equivalent bioavailability of magnesium chloride, lactate, and aspartate. Inorganic magnesium salts, depending on the preparation, may have bioavailability equivalent to organic magnesium salts.
PMID: 11794633 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Here is a list of prescription drugs that should not be taken with magnesium hydroxide:
Alendronate (Fosamax)
Allopurinol (Zyloprim)
Antibiotics classified as quinolones, such as Cipro and Noroxin
Aspirin
Atenolol (Tenormin)
Captopril (Capoten)
Chlordiazepoxide (Librium)
Cimetidine (Tagamet)
Digoxin (Lanoxin)
Doxycycline (Vibramycin)
Fosfomycin (Monurol)
Gabapentin (Neurontin)
Glipizide (Glucotrol)
Glyburide (Micronase, DiaBeta)
Isoniazid (Rifamate)
Ketoconazole (Nizoral)
Levothyroxine (Synthroid)
Methenamine (Urised)
Metronidazole (Flagyl)
Misoprostol (Cytotec)
Mycophenolate mofetil (CellCept)
Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as Dolobid, Naprosyn and Voltaren
Penicillamine (Cuprimine)
Phenytoin (Dilantin)
Quinidine
Sodium polystyrene sulfonate (Kayexalate)
Sucralfate (Carafate)
Tetracycline antibiotics such as Achromycin V and Minocin
Tilodronate (Skelid)
Ursodiol (Actigall)
One should space these out 2-3 hrs before or after any magnesium product.
Laurie
04-25-2007, 12:54 AM
Thank you, Mrs. D. I will stick with the product that we are using since my son has not had any intestinal distress, and he doesn't mind taking it. I'm not sure if it is as effective as his previous Mag/Cal supps however, he is much more compliant with this. I'm also curious as to the effect of pH. I understand that Mg can be very alkaline. Can this have an adverse effect on digestion?
Laurie
It is the hydroxide and carbonate portion that is responsible for the
antacid effects. Not the magnesium portion.
Magnesium ions are complexing agents...bind with drugs to prevent absorption however. That is why I put up the interactions list.
It would depend on how much and how often the hydroxide type was given.
If only once a day, then the acid would return later.
Our stomachs work best acid. Proteins need acid for break down and so do other nutrients for absorption.
The other mag products do not neutralize acid the same way as far as I know.
Silverlady
04-26-2007, 09:00 PM
Mrs. D,
I've ordered the Ionic Fizz Magnesium, but I'm wondering if it will interfere with the Calcium/Vit.D absorbtion? And what would you recommend for the best Cal/D supplement. I need bone to be re-built very badly and want to take the very best supplements.
Thanks for being here.
Billye
the Ionic Fizz will be a problem, with the other. However, they do state that it takes some time to build mag stores back up.
Since you already take a calcium supplement, you won't need the other
Ionic Fizz Calcium plus.
I saw muscle relaxation fairly quickly. But I can't take this every day, more than 5 in a row and I get loose...like with all mag products...sigh.
Silverlady
05-03-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks Mrs. D,
The "looseness" :rolleyes: won't be a problem. Always have trouble there from the Sjogren's dryness. But I'm really glad to know it won't cause problems. I got it yesterday and it really tastes good. Thanks for the info, 'preciate it.
Billye:hug:
It does taste good. I was bit worried about the warm water part...since I don't like warm water...but it does taste quite good....for "medicine"....LOL:D
The powder seems very fine, so don't inhale while scooping it out...it is very easy to get up the nose I have found!:yikes:
I am reordering now some other things from iherb...so I am going to get the
bigger tub now and save money. I think this will be my predominate mag product from now on. (with SloMag to fill in the cracks when traveling etc).
bruegger84
08-08-2007, 05:35 PM
well since im new here, i just want to start off with saying I've done a lot of reading, as I've been to numerous other sites, including braintalk. I feel like im doing homework when reading all this stuff, but oh well, it helps in the end. Thanks for the magnesium suggestions, they are very helpful. Now I don't know if anyone has heard of this before, but I heard that calcium was possibly a useless drug, when used as a supplement. You know people take it for osteoporosis or bone less. But I heard that it was useless. As for vitamin D, I think that is very helpful. Now I read almost every single one of the posts on magnesium here, and.....
....as for the magnesium hydroxide and interacting with other medications like gabapentin, aspirin, and quinidine. I checked the drug interactions via drugs.com and they were listed as moderate interactions with aspirin and quinidine and a minor interaction with gabapentin in that it decreases the bioavailability of it. I looked that up especially since I take gabapentin for myoclonic jerks and insomnia. But I mean come on, I guess drugs.com is more of a pro-med site rather than a alternative herbal, natural hypochondriac(joking) type site, so I guess they wouldn't be that strict with interactions. I'm not saying that I'm pro-med or chastizing alternative herbal methods. I think there lies a good benefit one can get from combining treatments, meds, and vitamins. But I'm semi-biased as I had a real tough time with melatonin in that it worsened my depression/mental illness, nightmares, decreased blood flow, irritability, fatigue. Regardless have any of you heard of a more cautious drug interaction site, maybe one that integrates vitamins and herbs?
Taurine I guess helps muscle fatigue I read somewhere. I sometimes drink those energy drinks (which as u know got the taurine in them) because they have less caffeine per 8 oz than coffee does, energy drinks usually have around 80 mg. Which is good but im looking for something that has more than coke/pepsi(which hav around 40 mg) but less than say a redbull(again 80), i guess companies arent too precise oh well. I read that coffee has 135-145 mg caffeine and sometimes in nominations up to 170. no wonder why when I hav an iced coffee i feel like im gonna hav a seizure or something. geesh. on to my next subject potassium and magnesium.
I heard that potassium is good for myoclonus, so I bought a GNC magnesium and potassium aspartate that I take. is this a good magnesium supplement to take? I mean I may try slowmag, or that ionic fizz stuff if it isnt. also bananas are supposed to be good natural source for potassium, tryptophan, and melatonin which I read somewhere.
i take omega 3 fish oil also, but the GNC version has low EPA and DHA so no wonder it hasnt helped my depression that much.
with love and good health
ConsiderThis
08-09-2007, 03:09 AM
Hi Bruegger,
Welcome. :)
Well done, doing the homework. Good for you.
I don't think calcium is "useless" from what I've read, it's just that the dairy lobby wants us to buy a lot more of this basically milk product than we match in our diets with magnesium...
I bought a newsletter years ago when I had money (ah, the good old days) that talked a lot about magnesium and how in other countries where people take less calcium in, they also have less osteoporosis, because in those countries they have a better balance of calcium to magnesium.
Without sufficient magnesium the calcium we take can be used by our bodies in ways that are not what we are hoping for, like bone spurs and headaches... I forget what else.
I have to go back and read your post again... I have impaired memory from a number of things, to include low B12 for too long.
Oh, that reminds me, magnesiIum is as hard to get out of food for our bodies to use as B12 is... so that's one reason people often are low in it...
I have a page on my site of the foods containing magnesium... but I better not post a link... I do a lot of links sometimes and it irritates people rather than making them feel they are helpful.
:)
*
I'm surprised (I just reread your post) about your reaction to the melatonin. Is that common?
Have you tried B12 for your depression? I found that after significant replacement therapy I no longer had symptoms of depression... and glad of it!
:)
glenntaj
08-09-2007, 07:19 AM
--calcium and magnesium tend to be atagonistic in terms of action; they are both "alkaline metals" that tend to form ionic rather than covalent bonds.
So, if one takes both of them, there is a tendency for them to compete for the available "raw" hydroxol and other negatively charged bodily ions.
This is why many knowledgable authorities have told people to take both, and at different times of day, to minimize competition and maximize absorbability. I have seen the ratio of 2:1 calcium:magnesium quoted often--as long as one is taking more bioavailable forms such as citrates and asparates (as opposed to oxides).
Vitamin D, magnesium, and calcium all act to promote bone health; potassium and phosphorous are important players there, too. And sodium (another alkali metal), magnesium, and potassium are all important as electrolytic factors in the conduction of nerve impulses. The standard Western diet has been very imbalanced, however, in favor of too much sodium, and sometimes too much calcium--I am not convinced that a lot of people are calcium deficient--and too little magnesium and potassium (yes, there does seem to be some evidence, especially from countries where lactose intolerance is common and where overages of calcium are less likely, that the goodly intake of magnesium helps stave off osteopenia). And--vitamin D deficiency if also common, especially as one moves up the latitudes.
ConsiderThis
08-09-2007, 12:00 PM
Very interesting...
The book I had, which I think was called Secrets of Women's Health... but I'm too tired to go find it and look, said that you had to have magnesium with calcium... and I think that must be why so many calcium products have magnesium in them.
I always take a magnesium now whenever I have a food with calcium in it.
This has been working great, which I judge by the fact that when I had a bone density test, which the administrators appeared to be SURE would show I needed to use their drug, it showed that my bone density was REALLY good. The test administrators voiced surprise and of course congratulated me.
So that's why I always take magnesium with calcium now, and I try to avoid taking any calcium except in food.
:)
bruegger84
08-09-2007, 01:07 PM
hey well it shod mention in my signature, that i do take vitamin b12, but i gotta take the methylco kind
ConsiderThis
08-09-2007, 06:13 PM
hey well it shod mention in my signature, that i do take vitamin b12, but i gotta take the methylco kind
Oh, hey, love LOVE your signature!!!!!!
:)
(in terms of the B12... not because of the health problems it suggests.)
Have you tried eating yogurt at all?
I read a long time ago when I used to have asthma that yogurt reduces symptoms by about 27% after three months of eating it.
I used to think it was the interferon in it... that may even be what the article I read said.
But now there's a lot of emphasis on probiotics... the good bacteria that are in yogurt and some capsules...
(the ones I take contain something like 5BILLION per capsule... :eek:
I don't have a fridge due to the reduced amount of electric I have using solar, so I get the probiotics now.)
I'd sure try the yogurt before I tried a more chemical solution...
(((((((((Bruegger))))))))))
bruegger84
08-18-2007, 04:37 PM
i was thinking that it was the acidophilus in the yogurt that helps, but im trying to remember if i read somewhere else that astralagus helps people with asthma, but i could be wrong cuz it could have said acidophilus but i could hav confused it with astralagus.
ConsiderThis
08-18-2007, 06:30 PM
Hi Bruegger,
:)
It's nice to see you post again. :)
No, I think you're right. I know that after having antibiotics people are supposed to have yogurt for the acidophilus...
What's astralagus????
(it sort of sounds like a dynamite day in ones horoscope...);)
Chemar
08-18-2007, 06:54 PM
yes, acidophilus is a probiotic in yoghurt
Astragalus is very good for the immune system etc and also helped me greatly when I was detoxing from pesticide poisoning
here is some good info on Astragalus at iherb (http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21540)
ConsiderThis
08-18-2007, 07:34 PM
Hi Chemar, Thanks, that's going to be good reading.
Is all bacteria that's good for our digestive system called "probiotics" ?
:)
bruegger84
08-18-2007, 09:21 PM
i love iherb i just bought som methyl there the other day and it came in like 2 days, i got some astralagus in my sobe drink the other day, i think its in nirvana and lizard fuel.
ConsiderThis
09-02-2007, 03:24 PM
yes, acidophilus is a probiotic in yoghurt
Astragalus is very good for the immune system etc and also helped me greatly when I was detoxing from pesticide poisoning
here is some good info on Astragalus at iherb (http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21540)
OMG, I just spent the longest time trying to find this thread.
I've been thinking about this since I first read it...
I went to the Astragulus iherb page and it was so hard for me to read, not "read" exactly, but "get". I just cannot remember things in boxes, it's as if when I go from the first box to the second everything from the first is wiped out by the line.
I don't understand why that is. But when I got an oil filled radiator some years ago it had the instructions in boxes and I just could not get it to work. It was really neat if you could get it to work because it would do different temperatures at different times. But the longer I couldn't set it the colder I got until finally I was shivering and crying and I had to take it back.
I think that's why I've written my site as I have... with everything running together like a story.
I can understand things in a story form much more easily.
I don't think I ever remember as much as I used to before I had the brain damage... but I can remember more when it's like a story and there's no stopping and starting...
Whew!
I am soooo glad I found this thread. I hope now that I've written this I can stop thinking about it... :)
(I suspect I'm going to start thinking about how I was listening to a court tape yesterday or this morning, I forget when I can't sleep, and the judge laughed when I talked about my disability. I was told he'd said there was "no way" I'd get my condo back. And that could well be true. Now that I have the court tape and the record proper I can see that the lawyer for Ocwen was lying. He was lying. It just amazes me that he would lie about things that are in the record proper and can be so easily checked by someone without brain damage.
I am so glad I am appealing. I sure hope the appeals court doesn't have the same attitude as the judge.)
bruegger84
09-07-2007, 10:28 PM
My post on magnesium a few clicks back was directed towards Mrs D, hopefully a response i will get.
...I'm semi-biased as I had a real tough time with melatonin in that it worsened my depression/mental illness, nightmares, decreased blood flow, irritability, fatigue. Regardless have any of you heard of a more cautious drug interaction site, maybe one that integrates vitamins and herbs?
Taurine I guess helps muscle fatigue I read somewhere.
...bananas are supposed to be good natural source for potassium, tryptophan, and melatonin which I read somewhere.
i take omega 3 fish oil also, but the GNC version has low EPA and DHA so no wonder it hasnt helped my depression that much.
with love and good health
I haven't seen MrsD in quite a while. Hope she's all right. Oh, I just went to another forum and see her posting. Hi MrsD! *waving*. I'm sure you'll get a response fairly soon from her. I had also lost track of this thread some time ago.
I thought I'd respond with a few things that might have some value added info.:
Re: mood swings and supplements:
You have to be really careful about the source I believe. I have the same issues with selenium that is yeast-based. It really starts me on that downward slope. I couldn't figure it out for the longest time and stopped taking it but kept the bottle. Finally, I was looking at the bottle one day looking for some small print about gluten (which always gets my mood swinging downward, even the tiniest amount will do it) when I realized that it was a yeast product.
Great info. about the taurine. Thanks. I'll have to look into that some more.
Bananas need to be carefully used because many people react to them with an 'oral allergy' that can be sneaky. I have that. All it means is that my mouth feels 'funny' after I eat a raw banana. However, if I cook it, the chemistry changes enough that I don't get that effect.
You can increase your omega 3 balance by changing where you get your meat and eggs. Grass-fed, free-range animals have a healthy 3/6 balance. Grain fed animals are high in 6 and low in 3. Also, grain fed animal meat is acid, free-range/grass fed animals are not acid. Beware though, a farmer who 'finishes' (last 6 weeks before slaughter) their meat with grain, reduces the omega 3 and acid levels. Try and find a farmer who feeds grass all the way through. Eggs that are high in omega 3 are easier to identify than meat because their yolk looks very orange compared to a regular, grain-fed egg that looks yellow.
Re: dairy:
Dairy gets my chest to tighten. Though it doesn't work against me as fiercely as gluten for asthma, it contributes... and so I steer clear of dairy and take a 5-strain dopholous instead of using yoghurt. Dairy also makes me phlegmy... which I really don't care for.
I missed the part of your quote where you are talking about trying slowmag. I know that MrsD used to be a big advocate of it. I can't find it here in Canada though. Here's a quote from her in another forum:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showpost.php?p=4616&postcount=15
I am freshly back now, with a dependable computer!
Thanks for the ideas Kim. (as always)
And Beuegger--- it is nice to meet you. I assume you are a male, by your avatar? It helps me to know the gender of the poster writing.
I posted a link to a good calcium post on another thread here at the top of the list-- check that out. It will answer your calcium questions well.
I am not a fan of GNC--- their prices are too steep for me. But if you like them, then don't let me dissuade you. For supplements, using potassium is rather useless since the FDA only allows max of 99mg/tablet. Since we need at least 3.5 grams or more a day, it is a waste of money. 1/2 of a cantaloupe has 1400 mg in it for comparison. The aspartate salts of supplements may be bad for anyone with neuro issues. Aspartic acid (aspartate) is a neuro-excitatory amino acid like glutamate. Wiser choices would be gluconate, citrate etc as I listed earlier in this thread.
The blood pressure you list on your siggy line is not really high. It is a borderline reading reflecting perhaps nervousness in the doctor's office known as white coat hypertension, or an excess of salt in your diet. (this is especially true of younger patients). People with chronic pain also may have elevated readings. So age is a factor with that.
When you surf the net there are many sites with drug interactions available.
But many are either incomplete, don't address everything possible, or do not have current data yet. Some of the bigger sites use a company to do that for them. Many pharmacies pay a fee to an outside place to provide the data for them. My experience is that they also do not have "everything"... for example, one place I used to use did not have accurate serotonin data on interactions between SSRIs and triptans (used for migraine).
Absorption interactions like the mag/gabapentin can often be worked around by timing intakes of either so they do not occur.
It is nice to see you here (both of you) and thanks for posting!
bruegger84
09-08-2007, 12:55 PM
well yes im a male, this site seems to be neurology talk for women, since they even hav a separate forum for women's health. so you said that magnesium gluconate or magnesium citrate would be better choices? i was thinking of trying the ionic fizz stuff that u were talking about earlier, or maybe even the slowmag-even though im kind of turned off by anything containing a chloride type thing, like magnesium chloride.
about calcium: I think americans get more than enough of calcium through their diet, cuz it is high in cheese/dairy, even things u wouldnt think had cheese in it actually do.
im not really worried about my blood pressure, my heart rate was what worried me, as it was 115-120 resting, and possibly even higher under stress/social interactions. I have a litte social anxiety so that affects it. i dont hav that white coat hypertension.
im assuming ur not gonna name any sites for drug interaction checking for fear of getting the boot here at neurotalk. u dont hafta post a link maybe just names possibly.
Chemar
09-08-2007, 01:14 PM
im assuming ur not gonna name any sites for drug interaction checking for fear of getting the boot here at neurotalk. u dont hafta post a link maybe just names possibly.
Hello Bruegger84
we dont mind legitimate links to relevant sites here and certainly dont give members "the boot" for posting those.
what we ask members to be respectful on when linking is that within the guidelines
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1293
helpful links are always welcome, and if a member happens to post a link that isnt, it has a little edit, not a big boot :D
anyway, I know there are a number of links on the useful sites stickies to info on interactions
maybe the Natural Encyclopedia at iHerb can be of help in their section on Drug Interactions with Supplements (http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=33801)
hope that helps
Cheri
ps Maybe a visit to our PD forum will also show you there's a lot more to us than "neurology talk for women" LOL:cool:
I have some good ones on a Sticky on our Medications forum.
Like Chemar I like iherb's encyclopedia and they even have the German Commission E data, which is hard to find on the net.
Univ. of Maryland has an excellent Alternative section too.
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/
Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State Univ. is also excellent.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/
NIH..is also good and pretty new:
http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/
Ionic Fizz is magnesium citrate formulated to dissolve quickly and be absorbed quickly.
SlowMag is magnesium chloride. Because it is an inorganic salt, the size of the tablet is lower--64mg.
I am always open to new formulations of magnesium, since I find them very laxative (I have a GI congenital problem that causes that for me).
There are many males on these forums. I only like to know gender and age because females have hormone issues that complicate things that males do not.
I can't find slowmag in Canada, but after talking to MrsD (a fairly long time ago) I switched to magnesium citrate and though I don't really notice a difference when I take it, I really *do* notice if I'm off it for too long... esp. if I consume mag. depleters like coffee. So, because I drink coffee on the weekends, I take my magnesium over the weekend and then for the first couple of days of the week. I've found that keeps me in good spirits with improved energy and no shaking. I've not had issue with bowels because of the citrate at all.
As for dairy and calcium, dairy (or any other food to which you are reacting) can cause malabsorption. If you're malabsorbing, then you'll have a harder time feeling better.
Foods that will get my mood coming down fast is gluten (#1: even miniscule amounts can affect my mood) and coffee (if I drink it for more than four days in a row... and four days is kind of pushing it).
So, I don't do any gluten at all... am quite freakish about it really after a couple of small errors left me fatigued, with joint pain, a migraine and depressed. And I really enjoy my coffee (which is fair trade, organic beans that I grind in my kitchen) so I keep it for a weekend treat.
My dairy is fairly limited because it causes mucous production and I get a bit of tightness in my chest (I didn't feel any of these symptoms, by the way, until I removed the foods for a time and then ate them again). So, mostly just holidays or special events... and even then, I make sure to keep it quite limited.
For calcium, it seems far more effective to make bone broth soup using cabbage as the acid to pull the calcium (and probably the magnesium) out of the bones. Here is a bunch of information I've collected. Please excuse the fact that it's not been proofed yet and so is not finished. The only reason I've got it on the web already is because so many people were asking for the information and though it's not pretty, the information is still valid and readable. I do list my sources and urge people to ask if it looks like I've missed listing one: Pecking Apart Chicken Soup
(http://thegoblet.blogspot.com/2007/09/pecking-apart-chicken-soup-use-dem.html)
bruegger84
09-10-2007, 09:02 PM
im sorry but i cant just put down my milk, as i hardly make alot of mucus anyways for some reason, i dont know if that is related to any type of illness-low mucus production, but i sure do sneeze from time to time-which I really enjoy for some reason- as I dont sneeze alot but when I do its kind of a release. wow or u can probably use lemon juice as the acid to get out the calcium magnesium for the bones.
bruegger84
09-21-2007, 08:17 PM
ive recently purchased the ionic fizz and throughout the day Ive been drinking a large bottle of cold water(about a liter) with 2 capfuls of this stuff in it. I wonder how much hav u guys take a day? I feel like I can handle alot of this stuff, without getting loose. I love this fizz stuff it tastes great.
I suggest you read the directions on that jar of Ionic Fizz you bought.
It is to be mixed in warm water and after it completely dissolves, drunk all at once. If it is not used immediately it is to be refrigerated.
http://www.pureessencelabs.com/pdf/if_mag_supp.pdf
I would not use more than 2 scoops a day without doctor's supervision.
For many one scoop a day may be enough.
It does taste good, but you do not need to overdo it just because you like it.
You are not in a position to decide "how much you can handle"... this
statement is rather reckless IMO. Becoming "loose" is only one sign that magnesium is not being absorbed...you can still poison yourself if you don't get loose depending on your kidney functions.
When you decide to use ANY supplement you need to follow directions and understand what you are doing. That is why I provide links for you to read.(homework) So please do be careful.
ive recently purchased the ionic fizz and throughout the day Ive been drinking a large bottle of cold water(about a liter) with 2 capfuls of this stuff in it. I wonder how much hav u guys take a day? I feel like I can handle alot of this stuff, without getting loose. I love this fizz stuff it tastes great.
bruegger84
09-22-2007, 11:43 PM
right im ok i just had lapse in judgement, ive just read sites where people take 600 mg at one time and are fine. I def will follow the take it with warm water next time. and will not go over the recommended amount. but i do recall vitamin b12 not having any toxicity so I assume i can be more liberal with my vitamin b12 supplement.
Yes, you can be very liberal with methylcobalamin.
rose
I found this new study on PubMed recently...and it is time to bump up this thread anyway ;)
Vopr Pitan. 2007;76(5):67-73.Links
[Study of anti-inflammatory activity of some organic and inorganic magnesium salts in rats fed with magnesium-deficient diet]
[Article in Russian]
[No authors listed]
The purpose of the present research was comparative study of anti-inflammatory action of some Mg salts in rats fed with Mg-deficient diet. It was shown in our study that administration of Mg L-aspartate with pyridoxine leads to higher compensation of Mg deficiency in rats with diet-induced Mg depletion as compared with other Mg supplementations. According to the Mg deficiency correction rate Mg salts may be ranged in the following order: Mg L-aspartate with pyridoxine > or = Mg chloride with pyridoxine > or = Mg lactate with pyridoxine > or = Mg L-aspartate > Mg chloride > Mg orotate. In our study administration of Mg salts resulted in decreased number of blood leukocytes, reduced peripheral vasodilation visible in the external ear, decreased spleen weight, and as consequences in reduced inflammatory and immunological response. According to correction rate of the inflammatory response Mg salts may be ranged in the following order: Mg orotate > or = Mg chloride > or = Mg chloride with pyridoxine > or = Mg L-aspartate > or = MgL-aspartate with pyridoxine > or = Mg lactate with pyridoxine.
PMID: 18030818 [PubMed - in process]
I found this interesting...but not unexpected. Magnesium + pyridoxine are both necessary for the proper conversion of essential fatty acids to long chain ones EPA and DHA. EPA then has anti-inflammatory effects on the body.
For humans I would not be keen on using aspartate salts. Aspartic acid is a neuroexcitatory amino acid like glutamate, and can raise pain levels. I don't know if that is true for rats. But the use of B6 with magnesium is common in many supplements.
daniella
12-07-2007, 01:39 PM
I finally found the slow mag magnesium chloride so I will switch. It says take 2tablets daily is it best to split those up?
One in the morning and one at night. After a while you may find you
only need one a day (if you eat magnesium containing foods to help)
on foods providing magnesium. Time to bump this up, so here it goes:
http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20031223/magnesium-lowers-type-2-diabetes-risk
A reminder:
When taking supplements of magnesium your target should be 1/2 of the RDA.
Assume that the other half is being provided by food.
If you make a good attempt at food choices daily, you could conceivably go without supplements. (unless you are depleting magnesium with drug therapies)
As the article points out, people with kidney disease need to be careful while using magnesium in supplement form.
daniella
02-20-2008, 10:58 AM
If the bottle does not say how much elemental how do you know? Right now I am taking the 400 mg of magnesium glycinate. Is this a good amount for results?
Humongous? or average?
Can you post the maker here so I can look it up?
A humongous size tablet of magnesium could have up to 100mg of elemental in it.
Here is an example:
http://www.nutritiondynamics.com/products/minerals/magnesium/main.html
The glycinate tablet here is clearly marked...elemental, and I expect it to be very large--almost an inch long (like the magnesium malate I used to use).
Magnesium Glycinate
Size Price
Each Tablet Contains: 120 $18.00
Magnesium Glycinate 1,000 mg. 240 $34.00
(providing 100 mg. of elemental Magnesium, U.S. Patent #4,599,152)
Suggested Usage:
Adults take 1 to 2 tablets daily or as directed by physician.
Here is a powder you can buy... which gives the ratio.. 20% elemental
http://www.shfnatural.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=183&Category_Code=
This one gives elemental too:
http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/314
I cannot answer your question if I can't see the product or label.
daniella
02-20-2008, 05:32 PM
Thanks Mrs D. It is by Metagenics and is the regular called Mag Glycinate. They are pretty big pill and says 2 pill have 200mg of magnesium bis-glycinate. Thanks again.
KarenMarie
02-20-2008, 05:43 PM
Having been taking 500 mg daily for about 25 years - helps with the muscle spasms and cramps - more then Baclofen (sp)
WHEW! I have just read this entire thread and I want to say a humongous THANK YOU to everyone who posted here. I checked many of the websites given and am very glad I did. I had just bought 2 lg grapefruit and was about to eat one while reading this thread. I clicked on a drug interaction website given here and lo and behold...
One of the meds I take has a potentially harmful reaction when ingesting grapefruit juice. Also, I had recently jumped on the magnesium supplement bandwagon and had purchased a bottle of it, so read the back label and it contained Mag Oxide.
I am very appreciative of all the work and effort you all put into this thread to inform members like me.
Thanks again. Your research helped this member alot. The info was priceless.. :grouphug:
*Just one more reason NT is so amazing*
Thanks Mrs D. It is by Metagenics and is the regular called Mag Glycinate. They are pretty big pill and says 2 pill have 200mg of magnesium bis-glycinate. Thanks again.
Okay, that means if there is 100mg of elemental mag in each tablet, you are
getting 1/2 the RDA by taking two a day. Not all is absorbed, but most will be.
daniella
02-21-2008, 11:34 AM
Thanks but I am taking 4 is that ok and good? Also I am sorry to beat a dead horse but I am having a hard time with my pain issue and I was wondering if you could look over my list of daily supp and tell me what I should add or take away. Thanks a million.
womens multi
calcium 600 with vitamin d -2 a day
mag glycinate 400mg but split in 2 doses
glucosamine msn 2 a day
vitamin c 500mg
kaprex 2 a day split doses
fish oil 2 a day 1200mg
I was going to add b complex in but I thought it used to contribute to my dizzy feeling but that could be wrong and my b12 level is 1500 to 2000 depending.The kaprex I know there is little data but could this in any way be harmful if taking 2 daily for ever. Is epa dha 6:1 better then the reg fish oil. The fish oil I take is by nature made but the epa:dha is by metagenics and says it is a minor pain support Thanks so much.
Shelley
02-21-2008, 05:53 PM
I've read the entire mag file. So is Mag glycinate the best since its the most absorable?
I looked for mag taurate in the store and could not find it.
Thanks but I am taking 4 is that ok and good? Also I am sorry to beat a dead horse but I am having a hard time with my pain issue and I was wondering if you could look over my list of daily supp and tell me what I should add or take away. Thanks a million.
womens multi
calcium 600 with vitamin d -2 a day
mag glycinate 400mg but split in 2 doses
glucosamine msn 2 a day
vitamin c 500mg
kaprex 2 a day split doses
fish oil 2 a day 1200mg
I was going to add b complex in but I thought it used to contribute to my dizzy feeling but that could be wrong and my b12 level is 1500 to 2000 depending.The kaprex I know there is little data but could this in any way be harmful if taking 2 daily for ever. Is epa dha 6:1 better then the reg fish oil. The fish oil I take is by nature made but the epa:dha is by metagenics and says it is a minor pain support Thanks so much.
Sorry, don't have experience with Kaprex...but it strikes me as similar to Limbrel (on RX). How it works is by improving inflammation, which is what the fish oil also does. There are studies coming out now that glucosamine does not work wonders (if at all).
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=39437&highlight=glucosamine
However, I know people who swear by it. It didn't do much for me.
If you make your own chicken soup --with chicken complete with bones, and simmer out all the connective tissue parts, you get far more than a glucosamine pill has. And you get dinner with it!
If you D is low --how much D are you taking in that cal/D tablet? You will far more D than is typically in mixtures like that.
I've read the entire mag file. So is Mag glycinate the best since its the most absorable?
I looked for mag taurate in the store and could not find it.
Most of the chelates work fine. None are 100% absorbed. The mag taurate is not high in mag... it is a small capsule.
This one appears to have more magnesium in it...
http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Taurate-Douglas-Labs-Tablets/dp/B000U67VHE
read the customer review... another misadventure with labeling...
This one reads better:
http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/mag-taurate-120-p-dietary-mineral-supplements.html
4 tablets contain 400mg magnesium.
Just pick one chelate and take it. Avoid oxide form, and target 1/2 of the RDA unless you have a doctor's supervision for higher doses.
People who are sensitive to looseness like me are the ones who have to pick and choose. Also it is important to understand that if one chooses a poor brand/type, taking it will give no results. Assuming then that magnesium does not work...would then be a false assumption. This is the most common error in using magnesium supplements. And remember, you can get it from foods. (which is what I try to do)
daniella
02-22-2008, 11:17 AM
My d levels are good but I have osteoprosis. The endo told me to take 2 calcium with d. The calcium amount is 600mg and the d is 400iu.
I am so lost Mrs D so I thought the gylcinate was very well absorbed and what docs use. Is 400mg good or no the 200mg because it is 1/2 the rda amount? This doc wanted me to work up to 10 but I don't feel comfortable. I have bowels of steel and the amount to give me loose bowels would be unreal. Thanks about the Kaprex. There seems to be little data. I guess Shelly and I are the test bunnies and right now for me no help. Not cheap stuff either. I feel some of the supps are just giving me expensive urine.Thanks always
Shelley
02-22-2008, 12:05 PM
Not cheap stuff either. I feel some of the supps are just giving me expensive urine.
You made me laugh with this statement. So true! :D
Shelley
02-22-2008, 12:07 PM
Thanks Mrs D. You are a wealth of information!!!!
I am intrigued by the Limbrel and gonna do a little googling. :D
My d levels are good but I have osteoprosis. The endo told me to take 2 calcium with d. The calcium amount is 600mg and the d is 400iu.
I am so lost Mrs D so I thought the gylcinate was very well absorbed and what docs use. Is 400mg good or no the 200mg because it is 1/2 the rda amount? This doc wanted me to work up to 10 but I don't feel comfortable. I have bowels of steel and the amount to give me loose bowels would be unreal. Thanks about the Kaprex. There seems to be little data. I guess Shelly and I are the test bunnies and right now for me no help. Not cheap stuff either. I feel some of the supps are just giving me expensive urine.Thanks always
Let's back up a bit...
Daniella, nothing you take by mouth is 100% absorbed. That calcium you use is only about 20-24% absorbed.
When I give suggestions on the net, I have to be careful because I don't know your kidney function or anything else about you. So basically for a target for someone NOT SEEING a doctor 1/2 of the RDA for magnesium is a fair goal.
Statistics have shown that to be a safe, useful target. For some drastic people who are very depleted that may be too low a target.
If you follow your doctor's advice and take 10 tablets of your product that would be 1000mg of elemental mag or 2.5 times higher than the RDA which is between 350 and 400mg/aday. Your doctor is responsible for that recommendation. If you took 4 tablets a day, you would be at the RDA, assuming that all is absorbed, which it is not. That would vary from person to person depending on transit time and activity of the bowel.
Curious
02-22-2008, 02:35 PM
Foods High in Magnesium Serving SizeMagnesium (mg)
Beans, black 1 cup 120
Broccoli, raw 1 cup 22
Halibut 1/2 fillet 170
Nuts, peanuts 1 oz 64
Okra,frozen 1 cup 94
Oysters 3 oz 49
Plantain, raw 1 medium 66
Rockfish 1 fillet 51
Scallop 6 large 55
Seeds, pumpkin and squash1 oz (142 seeds)151
Soy milk 1 cup 47
Spinach, cooked 1 cup 157
Tofu 1/4 block 37
Whole grain cereal, ready-to-eat3/4 cup 24
Whole grain cereal, cooked1 cup 56
Whole wheat bread 1 slice 24
http://www.algaecal.com/magnesium-foods.html
Shelley
02-22-2008, 03:02 PM
You are missing choccy and candy from that list right :wink: It is a food group!
glenntaj
02-22-2008, 03:58 PM
--that is 400mg, but I know that all of that is not elemental, and that I only absorb a fraction of that. Nevertheless, it does seem to make a difference as to how often and severely I cramp (which I still tend to do during certain types of isometric stretches recommended for my hip and spine).
I also notice that if I go heavy on the beans (I love black, pinto, white, navy) this is improved as well (although there are the usual, musical side effects). :D
I do almonds. 3 oz of almonds have 270 mg of Magnesium.
Also black beans when I make chili. (1/2 black 1/2 chili type)
If you take Beano... the tooting is less.:p or nonexistant.
Edit to add.... It just slipped my mind:
Edamame beans are very good sources of magnesium AND potassium
They have protein also. They are easy to fix (come cooked/frozen) and
taste good. And NOT expensive.
daniella
02-23-2008, 02:10 PM
Thanks Mrs D. You are always so helpfu. I am not going to take 10 but I guess will try the 4 since the bottle says take 2 two times a day so that seems safe.The docs never take responsibilty for mistakes to me anyway. I have never had edamame. Sounds interesting and I am going to try.
Shelly glad I made you laugh. That is the best medicine.
Curious
02-23-2008, 03:31 PM
I do almonds. 3 oz of almonds have 270 mg of Magnesium.
Also black beans when I make chili. (1/2 black 1/2 chili type)
If you take Beano... the tooting is less.:p or nonexistant.
Edit to add.... It just slipped my mind:
Edamame beans are very good sources of magnesium AND potassium
They have protein also. They are easy to fix (come cooked/frozen) and
taste good. And NOT expensive.
we love edamame's. the kids have fun opening the pods and eating them. most of the packages say to toss with salt. i never have. i don't think they need anything. great tv watching snack. :wink:
we love edamame's. the kids have fun opening the pods and eating them. most of the packages say to toss with salt. i never have. i don't think they need anything. great tv watching snack. :wink:
Oh, I never add salt to anything. The packages I get (they are huge) from Costco for about 4-5 dollars, say precooked in salty water--but they don't taste salty to me.
Sometimes I just have a small serving of chicken, and those for dinner. Don't need anything else! They are very very nutritionally dense and satisfying..and provide alot of nutrients we don't get elsewhere. I put out the empty husks and the bunnies come and eat them...no left overs! (we have alot of wild life, opossums, bunnies, squirrels, raccoons, even deer sometimes, and groundhogs.) Keeps them off my plants too.
I can't say enough about Edamame beans. They taste like butter, and have no beany or veggie consequences!
daniella
02-25-2008, 12:00 PM
I know you said you don't know much about Kaprex but you did say it is similar to the fish oil in the effect. So I was wondering does Kaprex take awhile to work like months or should I see benefits more like a tylenol. You take Kaprex 2 times a day.
Jasminky
02-26-2008, 11:27 PM
I would like to start my daughter on a magnesium supplement. She is 5 years old and 40 pounds. From what I understand it should be given with a calcium supplement as well?
Can you reccommend something for us? Thank You so much in advance. My daughter is not diagnosed at this time but is and has been experiencing tics/hyperactivity and some OCD as well.
Trying Bontechs supplements now but there are just too many for her to take, she can not swallow opills and the taste is just so hard to disguise. Not sure we will get far with these....thought with just starting the mag and cal would be a little slower and better for her.
bruegger84
02-27-2008, 01:41 AM
im not sure what MrsD would say about how much for children. in terms of magnesium. I mean I take ionic fizz 2 capfuls a day with warm water. so maybe a half capful of that stuff. im not sure how many mg that would be, or don't give her supplements and just go with the edamame peas, or go back and look at foods that would be helpful for her, maybe give her some nuts or something.
Oh and about glucosamine. I'm glad someone said something about that not being helpful, I was actually gonna get the creme, but decided against it. I remember visiting a site that recommended sulphur as an herbal supplement for me, based on symptoms etc. I looked it up and people take it as MSM-or there are creams with MSM in it. I'm sure it won't hurt to take a few MSM.
Chemar
02-27-2008, 08:06 AM
I would like to start my daughter on a magnesium supplement. She is 5 years old and 40 pounds. From what I understand it should be given with a calcium supplement as well?
Can you reccommend something for us? Thank You so much in advance. My daughter is not diagnosed at this time but is and has been experiencing tics/hyperactivity and some OCD as well.
Trying Bontechs supplements now but there are just too many for her to take, she can not swallow opills and the taste is just so hard to disguise. Not sure we will get far with these....thought with just starting the mag and cal would be a little slower and better for her.
Hi Jasminsky :)
glad to see you made your way over here
Cheri
Welcome to our board. For really small children, I think food sources for magnesium is the best way to go.
The statistics for accidental poisoning with magnesium are highest for small children and the elderly. As it is only about 20/yr, and mostly from misuse of Fleets enemas, but still in a small child one has to be very careful.
this link gives food values...but be careful and watch the quantity/volume stated...:
http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/food/magnesium-foods.htm
The RDA for your child is suggested at 130mg/day.
I think almonds are the easiest to do and are very high. For a small child you can grind them up and sprinkle on cereal or mix into oatmeal.
Edamame beans are very tasty and kids may enjoy taking them apart to eat...sort of a fun finger food. They are buttery and creamy and not beany.
Many kids will eat navy beans and chili..
This food list is good too:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/magnesium/index.html
You can switch lettuce in sandwiches with swiss chard...it goes in and is easy to eat this way. My husband doesn't even notice! LOL
Taking supplements of magnesium can loosen stools in some people. In a five year old, you really DON'T want that, so that is another reason food sources are better.:o
There is a cream for topical use:
http://www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/minerals/magnesium/Mag_Sulf_Cream_Spec225.html
And you can add some epsom salts into the bath water to be calming that way.
This is a very quick way to calm muscle tension/hyperactivity.
Chemar
02-27-2008, 09:09 AM
Hi mrsD
just piping in here as I pointed Jasminsky here from another forum....
as it appears that kids with tics need extra magnesium, the main issue many parents face is
a.which is the best form of magnesium to supplement with
and
b. should it be given with calcium
because taurine has also been found to help with tics, many successfuly use magnesium taurate, but that isnt always readily found, and some prefer to give the magnesium and taurine separately, but often come up against the decision again on which form of magnesium, as most supplemental forms seem to be mag oxide, which i understand is poorly absorbed
also
the adding of calcium is another grey area for many of us
BonnieG once posted on BT that it should always be cal:mag in 2:1 ratio
but some literature suggests calcium actually interferes with magnesium absorption :confused:
soooo
can you shed any light on this for us pleez :)
Hi mrsD
just piping in here as I pointed Jasminsky here from another forum....
as it appears that kids with tics need extra magnesium, the main issue many parents face is
a.which is the best form of magnesium to supplement with
and
b. should it be given with calcium
because taurine has also been found to help with tics, many successfuly use magnesium taurate, but that isnt always readily found, and some prefer to give the magnesium and taurine separately, but often come up against the decision again on which form of magnesium, as most supplemental forms seem to be mag oxide, which i understand is poorly absorbed
also
the adding of calcium is another grey area for many of us
BonnieG once posted on BT that it should always be cal:mag in 2:1 ratio
but some literature suggests calcium actually interferes with magnesium absorption :confused:
soooo
can you shed any light on this for us pleez :)
One can always give taurine separately...
It is confusing and hard to get the supplement makers to put on their labels what the elemental mineral content really is. That Cardiovascular Product is small..and says 125mg... and I suspect it is only about 15% mag. for example.
Most chelates with magnesium are HUGE pills... so since we cannot see what people choose, I tend to be very conservative when small children are concerned.
I've read this claim about absorption. Both calcium and magnesium in foods require acidic environment for absorption. But in supplement form, many of the types are antacids..so when supplements are given time of administration is suggested between meals. (I personally don't understand this).
This comment seems to me to be the most understandable:
Magnesium competes with calcium for binding to the troponin molecule found at regular intervals along actin filaments. Troponin undergoes a conformation change and a shift in position upon calcium binding, and hence allows the binding of actin and myosin filaments that occurs prior to muscle contraction. Because magnesium can compete with calcium for troponin binding, it can inhibit this contraction mechanism. A supplement with calcium and magnesium together is not a problem for magnesium absorption if both minerals are chelated and in a plant-base concentrate. Tests have indicated that this type of formula does not inhibit magnesium absorption.
http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/min_magnesium.html
You see when we eat food... that is when absorption is naturally designed to work. Supplements are artificial, and as such, are more confusing.
Here is a study showing that long term use of PPI's like Prilosec and Nexium (and other similar ones) leads to hypomagnesia...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18221401?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Low acid prevents normal absorption from food.
Here is a very complex explanation of intestinal absorption of magnesium:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:j1ejs__vMyoJ:cnserver0.nkf.med.ualb erta.ca/cn/Schrier/Volume1/chap4/ADK1_4_4-6.PDF+intestinal+absorption+magnesium&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
This is the PDF that shows the graphs more clearly.
http://cnserver0.nkf.med.ualberta.ca/cn/Schrier/Volume1/chap4/ADK1_4_4-6.PDF
This article shows that increased magnesium (supplement) had no effect on calcium absorption.
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/5/485
You can look at many sites, and get confusing answers. I tend to think calcium and magnesium do not affect each other under most circumstances.
This site is confusing:
http://www.acu-cell.com/acn.html
I never really understand this site...you think it sounds good, BUT....????
razzle51
02-27-2008, 02:16 PM
good info thanks . I sent you a private mesage .
bruegger84
02-27-2008, 06:37 PM
I really think taurine is just about as useful for tics or muscle contractions as glucosamine is for bones/joints. cause it is definitely about as unproven as much things. I mean they throw them in energy drinks- maybe leading people to think they help with the caffeine twitches.
I take nexium(oopps) but hopefully it doesn't mess too much with my magnesium absorption. I mean I do actually need it, because everytime I have sugar heartburn kicks in. I mean why do they sell these things? I always thought you need acid to digest food. wouldn't it just turn your food into bricks and get you constipated and start crapping out bricks(pardon my french.)
Chemar
02-27-2008, 10:46 PM
bruegger
taurine happens to be VERY helpful to people who have tourette syndrome and and has helped my son with some pretty severe tic waxing times
when he stops taking it, his tics increase so I feel confident in saying *it works!*
bruegger84
02-28-2008, 12:33 AM
yahh, I'll take your word for it, but if it worked for everyone, then it would probably be added as a treatment option, just like doctors regularly prescribe vitamin D and calcium for bones- when there is proof that calcium only helps a tiny bit with bones. there's certain herbal or dietary moves that can knock down cholesterol like a few points such as fiber, but does that really make that much a difference.
Chemar
02-28-2008, 07:53 AM
hi Bruegger
I guess the proof is in the pudding;)
but to each his own............
LOL full of cliches today arent I........:D
but seriously, if we hadnt implemented my son's supplemental treatments, of which magnesium is core, he would likely still have the very severe TS tics he used to suffer from
IMHO these "studies" leave much to be desired and only tell part of the story. I used to work in medical research and so I know how "scientific studies" are conducted:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
plus, many of the studies on supplements are conducted by or in some way connected to the big pharma companies who have a vested interest in having their products shine brighter than a simple otc supplement............
also, some supplements that the medical community have scorned as being of little benefit in the past, are being increasingly recommended by them. I personally think a lot more time should be spent at medical school educating them on nutritional health.
both my husband and I also use various supplements (including glucosamine) and also clearly know the difference when we stop taking them
are they a cure all....of course not.
But do I feel they help.........you betcha.
anyway
let's return this thread to what it is supposed to be about.....magnesium information
all the best
Cheri
Is recommended for aging people who may have insulin resistance.
The suggestion to use it with inositol is important too. Inositol supplementation reduces taurine in the body for some reason.
Also taurine shows effect on improving bile flow.
Here is an interesting article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FKA/is_9_67/ai_n14932826
PubMed has over 300+ pages on Taurine now. Here is a very new article:
Thought provoking!
Schizophr Res. 2008 Feb;99(1-3):56-70. Epub 2008 Jan 9.Click here to read Links
Maternal infection leads to abnormal gene regulation and brain atrophy in mouse offspring: Implications for genesis of neurodevelopmental disorders.
Fatemi SH, Reutiman TJ, Folsom TD, Huang H, Oishi K, Mori S, Smee DF, Pearce DA, Winter C, Sohr R, Juckel G.
Department of Psychiatry, Division of Neuroscience Research, University of Minnesota Medical School, 420 Delaware St. SE, MMC 392, Minneapolis, MN 55455, United States; Department of Pharmacology, University of Minnesota Medical School, 310 Church St. SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455, United States; Department of Neuroscience, University of Minnesota Medical School, 310 Church St. SE, Minneapolis, MN 55455, United States.
Prenatal viral infection has been associated with development of schizophrenia and autism. Our laboratory has previously shown that viral infection causes deleterious effects on brain structure and function in mouse offspring following late first trimester (E9) administration of influenza virus. We hypothesized that late second trimester infection (E18) in mice may lead to a different pattern of brain gene expression and structural defects in the developing offspring. C57BL6J mice were infected on E18 with a sublethal dose of human influenza virus or sham-infected using vehicle solution. Male offsping of the infected mice were collected at P0, P14, P35 and P56, their brains removed and prefrontal cortex, hippocampus and cerebellum dissected and flash frozen. Microarray, qRT-PCR, DTI and MRI scanning, western blotting and neurochemical analysis were performed to detect differences in gene expression and brain atrophy. Expression of several genes associated with schizophrenia or autism including Sema3a, Trfr2 and Vldlr were found to be altered as were protein levels of Foxp2. E18 infection of C57BL6J mice with a sublethal dose of human influenza virus led to significant gene alterations in frontal, hippocampal and cerebellar cortices of developing mouse progeny. Brain imaging revealed significant atrophy in several brain areas and white matter thinning in corpus callosum. Finally, neurochemical analysis revealed significantly altered levels of serotonin (P14, P35), 5-Hydroxyindoleacetic acid (P14) and taurine (P35). We propose that maternal infection in mouse provides an heuristic animal model for studying the environmental contributions to genesis of schizophrenia and autism, two important examples of neurodevelopmental disorders.
PMID: 18248790 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
The first article I put up here suggests long term high dosing of taurine leads to a shut down of internal regulatory systems the body has for it.
So I would pay attention to that. Doses typically used by NON-body building fanatics or energy drink fanatics typically do not approach 3 grams a day.
daniella
02-28-2008, 03:28 PM
Chemar the magnesium your son takes what form is it or is magnesium taurine it?Sorry somewhat lost always. I think people have mixed results with glucosamine. My mom takes it and really finds it helpful. I take it and don't see any benefit. So if you have no stomach issues with magnesium what is the best kind? On the net they said any that end in the ate. I feel so cramped and tight muscles and probably a fluke but this has been since I switched to magnesium glycinate which I read is hughly absorbable. What does the bis mean before the glycinate. It says bis-glycinate.
Jasminky I used to have very bad ocd in my late teens Anyhow I just wanted to say that I know how hard for your family and child it is but don't give up hope that it can get way better. Mine lasted for years but now I can say it is really not part of my issue anymore. For a long time my hands blead for ex from the washing. I really feel a lot is a brain chemistry too that needs to be balanced. Sorry if off subject a little.
Jasminky
02-28-2008, 04:09 PM
I replied to your post mrsd but now I can not find it? I think I did something wrong??
Curious
02-28-2008, 04:19 PM
jasminky, scroll up to post #102...that is your post. :hug:
That means there are two glycines to one magnesium ion.
I replied to your post mrsd but now I can not find it? I think I did something wrong??
My reply to you about your child appears right after post 102.
Greyhound
05-12-2008, 01:41 PM
People who become depleted of magnesium may succumb to a cardiac event called prolonged Q-T. This is where the heart rhythm becomes stalled,
and the heart stops beating.
I thought I was imagining my heart skipping beats O_o
Or could it be due to damage from my chest tics? :-S
By the way, approximately how long should it take for magnesium citrate to start taking effect on tics (if the tics are due to a deficiency)?
If you are REALLY low, you will see results quickly. But borderline people
show improvements more slowly.
IV administration is used in hospitals for hypertension in pregnancy (eclampsia) and for heart issues. It is VERY fast acting then.
My husband feels his muscles improve the next day. And I can have leg
cramping go away in one day too.
bruegger84
05-13-2008, 08:59 PM
I basically take back what I said about taurine, cause recently I've had to take vicodin for my wisdom teeth extraction, so that basically interacted a bit with my anti-depressant, and made me a little bit twitchy. I usually take Inderal PRN for things like this, as I had minor myoclonus for awhile before, but I had run out of that. So I had some taurine, and what do u know, I took some and it ended up working and helping me out.
But I also wonder if they have taurine in liquid form, such that you could add it to a bath, much like maybe epsom salts or baking soda. Just like they have glucosamine, MSM, and magnesium sulfonate creams. I figured they would, because I read somewhere about someone making their own home remedies with redbull and aspirin to rub on their muscles, supposedly the taurine helping stop muscle twitching, aspirin helps with the pain.
http://www.springboard4health.com/store/more_hpl_L-taurine.html
Using taurine this way looks very expensive to me.
And I suspect most of it stays in the skin area.
Taurine is so easily absorbed orally, I don't see any real reason to use
a more expensive method...unless someone cannot swallow, etc.
I see 100 caps of Taurine by NOW for $3.90. 500mg each. at iherb.com
MelodyL
05-14-2008, 04:50 PM
[QUOTE=mrsd;11802]I love those epsom salt baths.. They are really nice for older folks too,
since circulation to the feet can be less for them, and hence less of anything
in the bloodstream gets thru to the feet (and fingers too).
So epsom salts really help there, the mag goes right thru the skin.
It also softens the skin and allows for easy removal or maintenance of calluses.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't thank you enough for your info about magnesium. I just found a big box of epsom salts in my cabinet. I looked and sure enough. MAGNESIUM SULFATE.
I just soaked my feet for a good 20 minutes in nice warm water.
Not only are they clean, BUT I GOT SOME MAGNESIUM OUT OF THIS SOAKING!!!
Never would have thought of doing this.
Thanks ever so much.
Feet feel great by the way.
lol
Melody
Mel.
I love the soaks myself. ;)
Greyhound
05-16-2008, 08:29 AM
I see 100 caps of Taurine by NOW for $3.90. 500mg each. at iherb.com
Wow! That's cheap!
bruegger84
06-10-2008, 02:20 AM
well i have a new magnesium post.
As you may well know, I have tried ionic fizz and I hafta say I love the stuff.
But the other product you mentioned- Slow-mag is not so good. I mean maybe the product is good because as you said it's well-absorbed and maybe that's why you are fond of it. and as with most of the products you mention(MrsD) each one are very good and reputable( source naturals, jarrow formulas, now formulas) but the slow-mag tablets are absolutely massive, and are very difficult to swallow, I almost choked a few times already with these. Although I'm sticking it out with it, because I'm not yet done with the bottle.
I have a very difficult time swallowing these tablets, maybe Ill try drinking them with tea or hot water next time. but im sure magnesium chloride wouldn't be all that bad if they were partly aspirated. who knows?? maybe i hav a slight structural problem with my throat/esophageus. altho i wouldnt know because it takes a miracle for me to even go to the doctors for absolutely anything, I haven't been in awhile. I still haven't gotten a catscan or MRI on my head, because I do have anxiety and depression, and they say you should get some of these diagnostic tests to look at your head. maybe some of my symptoms aren't severe enough. I mean tests are preventative medication and if I was in britain I could get them done. Maybe I'll go to montreal or something to get these tests done.
is a delayed release form. So the matrix is a bit bulky.
It is however, smaller than most other magnesium tablets.
Magnesium malate is twice as large.
Some mineral supplements are large because they are taken
in large doses. Many calciums are large. That is why there are chews now and instant dissolve types (for calcium).
The benefit of SlowMag is that it does not commonly cause
loose stools, or the laxative actions, that magnesium can cause in some folks.
daniella
06-13-2008, 08:09 AM
Mrs D? I have magnesium glycinate and I use to take 400. I had switched from the bad kind oxide of 250. Well since then I have been so constipated cause I know the oxide helps with constipation. So now I have been doing for the past 2 days oxide 250 in the morning and 200 glycinate in the evening. Is this ok?
Greyhound
06-13-2008, 08:49 AM
Mrs D? I have magnesium glycinate and I use to take 400. I had switched from the bad kind oxide of 250. Well since then I have been so constipated cause I know the oxide helps with constipation. So now I have been doing for the past 2 days oxide 250 in the morning and 200 glycinate in the evening. Is this ok?
Try citrate and glycinate. Citrate helps with constipation while still being absorbable.
Mrs D? I have magnesium glycinate and I use to take 400. I had switched from the bad kind oxide of 250. Well since then I have been so constipated cause I know the oxide helps with constipation. So now I have been doing for the past 2 days oxide 250 in the morning and 200 glycinate in the evening. Is this ok?
The amount of magnesium from the oxide is really really small.
I think you can still take your regular dose of glycinate + one of the oxide. The amount absorbed from a 400mg dose of Oxide is about 8mg.(studies measuring blood levels have shown the % absorbed from Oxide) As long as you have normal kidney functions (ask your doctor), it should not be a problem. You do not have to reduce the glycinate form, unless your doctor tells you to.
bumping up the thread while I am on vacation.
Sna433
09-21-2008, 01:54 AM
Hi MrsD,
I have a question regarding some unusual symptoms. I posted the next paragraph on another site (medhelp) and someone pointed me in this direction because they thought I might have magnesium, calcium, or potassium deficiency. Does this sound like it could be or no? Thanks for whatever info you can provide.
"I have a family history of MS. I used to get migraines with aura until I hit puberty. I have been diagnosed with panic disorder and have had depressive boughts starting in adolescence through the present. I am in my early 20s. I was training for a half-marathon in which my longest run at the time was 6 miles. One day, I ran 8 miles and walked 1.5 miles. I sat on a plane for 3 hours after that. I noticed twitching in my left foot/toes that night. The next morning, I had pain around my achilles area in the same foot. It went away within a day but the twitching became worse. It only twitches at rest. EIGHT WEEKS later it seems like the twitching is getting worse. I have started school again (we sit down almost all day) and now my toes always twitch at rest (sometimes a more forceful contraction than other times) and my glutes, quad, and calf (all on the same side) have all started twitching. I have recently had back pain that went away in two days. One strange thing is that if I think about it, I can stop my foot from twitching, but not my quads, calves, or glutes. I notice my leg getting more tired everyday. My calf is tight all the time. I don't notice the twitching when I'm walking. My opposite foot starts twitching in the arch sometimes but as of right now, position changes seem to work on only that foot and the twitching goes away. I am extremely frightened that I have MS or ALS or some other debilitating/fatal disease. I rarely (once every 1-2 days) have pain (when I do it's usually because of muscle cramping resulting from the muscle twitching). I continued to run sporadically for about two weeks after my initial week off (after the 8 mile long run). The twitching went down a little bit during the week off after rest but was still there. Somedays it seemed better but in the past week, my foot has been more active at night."
I have just started taking a generic form of Centrum Performance which only contains 40 mg of magnesium (oxide, bad kind), 80 mg of potassium, and 100 mg of calcium. In addition, I also take a Calcium with Vitamin D supplement (600 mg calcium carbonate and 200 IU cholecalciferol). I have a pretty bad diet but I have been eating around 1-2 bananas a day for a week.
I would appreciate your thoughts on the situation. Thank you! :Help:
Sna433
09-21-2008, 02:18 AM
Hi MrsD again,
I forgot to mention that I started a new birth control pill around the time the twitching started (orthocyclen). I'm not sure if this really makes a difference. I also take a benzodiazepine for my panic disorder on an as needed basis. Thanks again!
is negligible.
Since this is only in one leg?...I'd wonder about your back.
Electrolyte things mostly manifest globally..and do not favor only one place. It is possible your problem is still not serious and only hitting on your leg if it has some injury or weakness.
Benzos are used as muscle relaxers. When they wear off, or you become habituated on them physiologically, you may get muscle spasms etc. Another thing that causes twitching is
low blood sugar. Up to 70% of people with low blood sugar get twitches as symptoms.
I would buy a quality magnesium supplement and see what happens. Do only that one thing..to see what the effect of it is. If you mix supplements you cloud the issue.
Just do not get the oxide form. And do the magnesium consistently for a month, to see if it benefits your problem.
Imbalances of calcium to magnesium often confuse muscles.
You are not getting any mag from your supplement.
There are food sources for magnesium that you can also do.
This thread has explanations about "sources".
here is another online example:
http://www.hoptechno.com/bookfoodsourcemg.htm
If you are training for running marathons, I would seriously hope you are eating properly.
I'd also get a good foot doctor to look at your ankles and feet.
Many muscle and pain issues can come from there.
If your legs are of unequal length, or you have any pronation issues, you will make them worse and strain your whole leg and back with stressful activities.
So I think there are other factors for you, including your electrolytes.
Come back after you do the magnesium, and if it does not work, I'll address the birth
control issue. Hormones deplete nutrients. B-complex especially. You can do a Bcomplex 50mg
if you want to support that in the meantime. Many athletes take B-complex for the B6 in them
to enhance muscle functions. Pyridoxal made in the body from B6 is stored in muscle.
Take care.
Sna433
09-21-2008, 12:54 PM
Thanks! I'm going to try it and then if it hasn't gone away, I'll write back. Thanks again for your input!
Here is an abstract to a new paper:
Nutr Clin Pract. 2008 Apr-May;23(2):142-51.Click here to read Links
Magnesium in hypertension, cardiovascular disease, metabolic syndrome, and other conditions: a review.
Champagne CM.
Nutritional Epidemiology, Dietary Assessment and Counseling, Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA 70808, USA. catherine.champagne@pbrc.edu
Magnesium plays a role in a number of chronic, disease-related conditions. This article reviews current pertinent literature on magnesium, focusing on hypertension and cardiovascular diseases and implications for relationships with diabetes and metabolic syndrome. A major role for magnesium is in the regulation of blood pressure. While data are not entirely consistent, it does appear that an inverse relationship between magnesium intake and blood pressure is strongest for magnesium obtained from food rather than that obtained via supplements. Hypertension associated with preeclampsia appears to be alleviated when magnesium is administered; in addition, women with adequate intakes of magnesium are less likely to be affected by preeclampsia than those with an inadequate intake. A role for magnesium in other cardiovascular diseases has been noted in that increased magnesium intake may improve serum lipid profiles. Dietary magnesium is also recommended to aid in the prevention of stroke and is important for skeletal growth and development. Magnesium may also play a role in the development of diabetes mellitus, obesity, and metabolic syndrome. There are data from some studies, such as the DASH and PREMIER studies, that suggest that lifestyle changes (including adequate magnesium intake) can benefit blood pressure control, promote weight loss, and improve chronic disease risk.
PMID: 18390781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
This article explains that chronic use of PPIs (like Prilosec and Nexium etc) may result in very low magnesium absorption in the GI tract:
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2008 Aug;69(2):338-41. Epub 2008 Jan 23.Click here to read Links
Severe hypomagnesaemia in long-term users of proton-pump inhibitors.
Cundy T, Dissanayake A.
Department of Medicine, Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences, University of Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand. t.cundy@auckland.ac.nz
OBJECTIVE: To explore the mechanism underlying severe hypomagnesaemia in long-term users of proton-pump inhibitors (PPIs). PATIENTS: Two cases of severe hypomagnesaemia in adult long-term users of the PPI omeprazole, presenting with hypocalcaemic seizures. MEASUREMENTS: We studied renal magnesium handling during an incremental intravenous magnesium infusion, and assessed total body magnesium status by the 24-h retention of the parenteral load. We also observed the effects of oral magnesium supplements whilst continuing the PPI, and the effect of withdrawal of the PPI. RESULTS: Both patients were severely magnesium-depleted and had avid renal magnesium retention, implicating a failure of intestinal magnesium absorption. There was no evidence of generalized malabsorption. The hypomagnesaemia could be partially corrected by high dose oral magnesium supplementation, and resolved on withdrawal of PPIs. CONCLUSIONS: PPI use can inhibit active magnesium transport in the intestine, though it is not clear if this is an idiosyncratic effect. Long-term PPI users who are highly adherent to treatment can eventually deplete total body magnesium stores and present with severe complications of hypomagnesaemia.
PMID: 18221401 [PubMed - in process]
This is alarming, since so many people use these drugs OTC and on RX. I don't believe doctors are aware of this effect at all!
bruegger84
10-15-2008, 02:57 PM
:bump: :bump:
is there any reason to bump this other than it being a very informative discussion?
oh and isn't bumping illegal??:bump:
jess18-- a new member...I told her I'd bump it for her.
And bumping is not illegal, we even have a smiley gif for it.
glenntaj
10-15-2008, 08:27 PM
--"bumping up" a previous thread with renewed relevance be illegal?
After all, if someone found the thread and posted something on it, it would in effect be "bumped up" . . .
This subject came up this week. So I thought I'd bring it to this thread.
Magnesium is moisture sensitive. It is hygroscopic, and draws water vapor to it, and will sweat, and eventually degrade the tablet.
If you place magnesium supplements in pill dispensers/minders you may run the risk to damaging other drugs with this moisture attracting characteristic.
Magnesium Chloride in SlowMag is the worst in this regard, but I would consider ALL magnesium supplements to have this potential. So keep your magnesium away from other drugs, keep in a tightly sealed container, with a moisture
packet included. People living in humid conditions, may have more problems than others. Once opened, the shelf life starts to go.
I have not been able to keep SlowMag for more than several months after opening.
Shelley
10-25-2008, 09:42 PM
Great article on Magnesium Deficiency
http://www.naturalnews.com/024597.html
(NaturalNews) How Important Are Magnesium and Colloidal Minerals? A mutual agreement now exists between the medical and complementary health communities on the fact that a wide range of minerals is essential for human health. Nutrient deficiencies or excesses can influence disease states. According to Dr. Joel Wallach, mineral deficiencies have been proven to be the direct cause of early deaths in elite and world famous athletes as well as other groups of the population.
As an example of how minerals work in the body, magnesium is directly involved in 300 bodily functions, and is one of the most essential minerals to our wellbeing. After potassium, magnesium is the second highest mineral level inside our cells. It is directly involved in many of our bodily functions and processes. A magnesium deficiency may contribute to developing osteoporosis, as it is needed for the absorption of calcium- along with vitamin D, potassium and boron. This is why a number of calcium supplement formulations include magnesium, because of its bioavailability and its synergistic effect.
A magnesium deficiency may present any number of symptoms (described below). If you experience any one of these, chances are you have a magnesium deficiency.
A magnesium mineral deficiency may cause the following symptoms:
* Nervous anxiety
* Depression
* Constipation
* High blood pressure
* Sleeplessness
* Muscle weakness, cramps and spasms (this one is a definite sign of magnesium deficiency, possibly even calcium)
* Premenstrual Syndrome
* Hearth rhythm irregularities/ angina
* Cravings for chocolate and caffeine (which also causes the body to lose more magnesium)
* Back pain
* Headaches, cluster headaches, migraines
* Stiff and aching muscles
* Bones and joints that need continued chiropractic treatment
* Hypoglycaemia
* Diabetes
* Nervousness
* Hyperactivity
* Osteoporosis
* Kidney stones
* Attention deficit disorder [ADD]
* Adrenal exhaustion/chronic fatigue syndrome
* Exhaustion from exercise
Magnesium has been recognised as a treatment for high blood pressure in pregnancy, as well as an anticonvulsant. It is essential for many metabolic processes - especially in maintaining correct levels of sodium, potassium and calcium in the body. Magnesium is a most important nutrient for the cardiovascular system, heart muscle function and muscle contraction. It is involved in about 300 biochemical processes in the body and is important for body temperature regulation, bone strength, dilation of blood vessels, and in the production of energy. In addition, it helps reduce the risk of forming kidney stones, as it is directly involved in helping the body utilise calcium from dietary sources. It is involved in muscle contraction – hence, its close association with the cardiovascular system - and in relaxing the muscles and calming the entire nervous system, which also helps us to sleep better.
cat265
10-26-2008, 11:05 AM
Someone suggested to me taking magnesium taurate. What is the difference between magnesiums? What would be the best one to take? I had a blood test awhile ago that showed my magnesium level was low.
provides taurine, which supports the heart and nervous system.
Most magnesium taurates do not have high elemental magnesium content. So check your labels carefully. (this can be confusing since there is no standard to labeling).
You can take a better magnesium supplement and add taurine separately very inexpensively.
example:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=133&at=0
cat265
10-26-2008, 11:30 AM
provides taurine, which supports the heart and nervous system.
Most magnesium taurates do not have high elemental magnesium content. So check your labels carefully. (this can be confusing since there is no standard to labeling).
You can take a better magnesium supplement and add taurine separately very inexpensively.
example:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=133&at=0
Thanks for that info. I don't even think I need taurine. What would be a good magnesium supplement to take?
If you are sensitive to the laxative actions of magnesium, then a delayed acting type is best. Like SlowMag (generic Mag 64).
If you don't easily get loose on magnesium then there are chelated types you can use.
magnesium Lactate
magnesium glycinate (not expensive)
magnesium citrate (in moderation--high dose=laxative)
magnesium malate (good for fibro people)
magnesium taurate (hard to find and more expensive)
I like the powdered form Ionic Fizz too. It works FAST.
You can alter the scoop size if it gets too laxative for you.
example for large tub:
http://www.vitacost.com/Pure-Essence-Labs-Ionic-Fizz-Magnesium-Plus-Raspberry-Lemonade
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=3197&at=0
I like the silica in it...this is good for tendons and connective tissue repair.
Just stay away from magnesium oxide--- this is very common and in many formulas. Even if the label says, "from magnesium oxide and chelate" avoid it. It will be all oxide.
I've called manufacturers and they cannot tell me how much of each is in their product...so I assume it is all oxide since that is the cheapest form. Oxide is very poorly absorbed.
You get about 8mg inside you from a 400mg tablet. So basically it is useless.
Some foods are good magnesium sources. I often do the nuts...say for lunch. 3 oz of unsalted almonds have 270mg of magnesium.
This website is really good for food values:
almonds:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/nut-and-seed-products/3086/2
Beans:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4298/2
Broccoli:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2361/2
Watch serving sizes, when looking up nutrients...they vary.
Also watch nutrition labels when buying supplements.
Sometimes for magnesium it will say, 4 capsules provide:
or 2 caplets provide...then give the chart. So sometimes people miss that they have to take more than one tablet/cap to get what the chart shows. Since both Calcium and magnesium supplements tend to be large in size, the number of caps is often raised.
Shelley
11-24-2008, 10:44 PM
A great artcile on magnesium
Insulin and Magnesium
Magnesium is necessary for both the action
of insulin and the manufacture of insulin.
Magnesium is a basic building block to life and is present in ionic form throughout the full landscape of human physiology. Without insulin though, magnesium doesn't get transported from our blood into our cells where it is most needed. When Dr. Jerry Nadler of the Gonda Diabetes Center at the City of Hope Medical Center in Duarte, California, and his colleagues placed 16 healthy people on magnesium-deficient diets, their insulin became less effective at getting sugar from their blood into their cells, where it's burned or stored as fuel. In other words, they became less insulin sensitive or what is called insulin resistant. And that's the first step on the road to both diabetes and heart disease.
Insulin is a common denominator, a central figure in life as is magnesium. The task of insulin is to store excess nutritional resources.
This system is an evolutionary development used to save energy and other nutritional necessities in times (or hours) of abundance in order to survive in times of hunger. Little do we appreciate that insulin is not just responsible for regulating sugar entry into the cells but also magnesium, one of the most important substances for life. It is interesting to note here that the kidneys are working at the opposite end physiologically dumping from the blood excess nutrients that the body does not need or cannot process in the moment.
Controlling the level of blood sugars is only one of the many functions of insulin. Insulin plays a central role in storing magnesium but if our cells become resistant to insulin, or if we do not produce enough insulin, then we have a difficult time storing magnesium in the cells where it belongs. When insulin processing becomes problematic magnesium gets excreted through our urine instead and this is the basis of what is called magnesium wasting disease.
There is a strong relationship between magnesium and insulin action. Magnesium is important for the effectiveness of insulin. A reduction
of magnesium in the cells strengthens insulin resistance.
Low serum and intracellular magnesium concentrations are associated with insulin resistance, impaired glucose tolerance, and decreased insulin secretion. Magnesium improves insulin sensitivity thus lowering insulin resistance. Magnesium and insulin need each other. Without magnesium, our pancreas won't secrete enough insulin--or the insulin it secretes won't be efficient enough--to control our blood sugar.
Magnesium in our cells helps the muscles to relax but if we can’t store magnesium because the cells are resistant then we lose magnesium which makes the blood vessels constrict, affects our energy levels, and causes an increase in blood pressure. We begin to understand the intimate connection between diabetes and heart disease when we look at the closed loop between declining magnesium levels and declining insulin efficiency.
Though it would be a long stretch of the longest giraffe’s neck to compare insulin with chlorophyll we are walking a trail at the very nuclear core of life. It’s the magnesium trail and we find to our surprise that it takes us into intimate contact with the very structure and foundation of life. The dedication of this chapter is to the beauty of magnesium, to its meaning in life, in health and in medicine.
We were talking about chlorophyll and now insulin and putting magnesium in-between. Walking further along is the DHEA magnesium story and the DNA magnesium story. And then there is the cholesterol magnesium story. Every part of life is in love with magnesium except allopathic medicine which just cannot accept it in all its light, flame and beauty. Thousands of years ago the Chinese named it the beautiful metal and they were seeing something pharmaceutical medicine does not want to see for there is little money to be made from something so common.
http://www.naturalnews.com/024847.html
bruegger84
12-21-2008, 04:41 PM
the magnesium in ionic fizz is actually magnesium carbonate and the calcium is calcium lactate/ carbonate, so I'm not sure if that affects the absorbability.
bruegger84
01-22-2009, 01:13 AM
actually never really liked the stuff to tell you the truth, even jarrow falls shorts it seems in terms of their product, magnesium optimizer (http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=261&at=0) the taurine supposedly enhances the effect, but all i see is 4 tablets daily, and the tablets are probably huge!
Vowel Lady
01-28-2009, 07:33 PM
Mrs. D...Have you heard of this researcher, George Eby? I was on another website and he was mentioned.
He says that magnesium deficiencies are causing major health problems in the U.S.:
http://george-eby-research.com/
MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY -- AS POSSIBLE CAUSE OF MODERN ILLNESSES
Symptoms of possible magnesium deficiency syndrome found when blood serum levels are below 0.9 mmol/L Mg serum include: abdominal pain, arrhythmias, asthma, ataxia, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), circulatory disturbances (arteriosclerosis, cardiac infarction, stroke), cluster headache, confusion, cramps, depression, diabetes mellitus, epilepsy, hypertension, migraine, neuro-vegetative disorders, osteoporosis, Parkinsonism, preeclampsia, stress dependent disorders, tinnitus, tremor, weakness Examine the Conclusions section for this list of magnesium deficiency symptoms. See the Full text article here: DH Liebscher, DE Liebscher. About the Misdiagnosis of Magnesium Deficiency. Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 23, No. 6, 730S-731S (2004).
Side Note:
From the
USDA Nutrient Database
Foods High in Magnesium:
Almonds, Cashews, Beans (particularly Black Beans), Pumpkin Seeds, Spinach and Tomato Paste.
I believe this for myself.
I stagger my supplements until I 'need' them. And it's quite easy to notice when I'm short on magnesium.
I continue to wonder contributes to it. I have isolated a few areas for myself and my family... and seen the same contributors for other people. However, there are many stones unturned.
I do know that poor absorption is a huge factor. For example, around Christmas when I allow more grain, refined sugar, dairy and yeast into my diet, my magnesium seems to plummet. All of these foods cause malabsorption for me.
I can also force myself into magnesium deficiency by drinking coffee every day for between one to two weeks (dependent on how much sugar and other foods I ingest).
If I am contaminated by gluten, even by consuming gluten free food that has been used previously to fry gluten foods, I will plummet. This happened to me just before Christmas. Every two weeks we were going to the same restaurant (so I ate there three times).
I began struggling with extremely depressive thoughts which I know to be gluten induced but could not isolate the source. Finally, the last time we went... and ordered the same food as always, they informed us that they had unwittingly been cooking gluten foods in the same fryer.
Then just yesterday I was talking to another gf family that we socialize with a few times a year, who also enjoys that restaurant. I mentioned that the fryer is contaminated.
They were very surprised (this restaurant is well known for catering to the gf community) but happy to understand why a couple of family members were not doing very well the day after eating there. Those members had ordered the same deep fried dish we were eating.
So how many other people have gluten induced magnesium deficiency? Considering North American consumption of bread (usually gluten based) has increased from 3 servings a day to 7, I wouldn't wonder too much why depression is on the increase also.
But what are the other contributors?
Any ideas?
I found this article recently... it is very interesting:
http://www.australianprescriber.com/magazine/30/4/102/5/
I found Dr. Jay Cohen MD's Magnesium book online at Google Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oD3NCnI14FkC&pg=PR5&lpg=PR5&dq=magnesium+for+reflex+sympathetic+dystrophy&source=bl&ots=jF15ZEES1A&sig=lmhX9NMgHMVwlCEVCQBP9onhToA&hl=en&ei=5f07Ssa8FofGMpSevagO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7
It is not the whole book of course, but it gives an idea about the content.
I think it is definitely worth reading.
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