B12 and thrilled to see this site

[Vowel Lady]

I'll probably post more later, but wanted to get something down as soon as possible.
I'm a long term migraine sufferer. I also have a history of lupus, which according to tests is in remission.
Several years ago, I began taking Topamax to treat my migraines and this caused some foggy thinking...which is normal for this medication.
However, over the last few years, the foggy thinking worsened, even though I lowered my Topamax dosage. I've had increasing fatigue, even though my lupus tests are negative. I've had problems with my hair falling out and severe memory loss.
I take a vitamin B Complex and my level is 600. I understand this is a normal level. My neuro wanted me to take 1000 mcgs of b12. At first I rejected the idea; figuring that since my levels were normal, it wasn't necessary.
However, I did note that I'm taking an anti-seizure medication, I'm gluten sensitive and I have stomach problems and take a medication to treat it. These are all things that can interfere with b12 absorption.
About two weeks ago he insisted that I take the b12. No debate, etc.
He gave me a shot (no charge) and that was that. said to take 1000 mcg. at home. No further instructions.
That afternoon after the shot, I had more energy than usual.
But the next day...zippo.
Then I started the b12 pills.
For a week zippo.
But GUESS WHAT? All of a sudden, I have more energy again. MORE ENERGY THAN I HAVE HAD IN YEARS.
I'm taking the one that starts with a "c"
However, U just purchased Methyl B12 from Jarrow. It is a lozenge. Several people have said that the methyl is considered better quality. One concern I have is that it has lemon flavor and other things in it that might interere with my migraines, since I seem to be ultra sensitive to food triggers.
Can anyone else recommend a very specific b12?
Just wanted to mention that your numbers might not be a true indicator of what is going on. I'm convinced that I really do need this b12 supplementation and am very grateful that my doctor insisted that I try this.:)

[mrsD]

And I think your doctor must be exceptional! Maybe he reads US?

There are other brands...Source Naturals has a cherry flavor.
But you know, you can swallow it whole, it will work that way too.

You need not chew them or put them under the tongue.

That is great you are doing better. Rose will be happy!;)

[jingle]

Mrsd -- does it matter if the B12 is not the Methyl B12 'stuff' ?
I'm still concerned because 1,000 mcg. seems so high.
I had been taking 1/2 of a 300 mcg tablet each day until a couple weeks ago when I accidently bought the bottle of 1, 000 tablets. Since then I haven't taken any.
Many thanks for your help.
VL -- it's wonderful that you're feeling better and have ENERGY !! :D I have hope.

[mrsD]

Hello Jingle...

The reason methylcobalamin is being recommended now, is that genetics
research is showing that people often do not convert cyanocobalamin effectively to get full benefit. Cyano is a synthetic man-made version, it is the most commonly known for many years, and requires 4 steps in the body so that
the body can use it.

The trend today is that using the methyl (which is very inexpensive now...9 cents a day) is the most guaranteed oral way to go. In fact the new RX version Metanx has the new methyl in it, and we will see this take over from the cyano.

Now dose wise... when B12 is used orally this way very little is absorbed.
It is thought that about 10 micrograms out of the 1000mcg in a tablet are successfully passively absorbed in the small intestine. The rest is lost.

Since no physical toxicity has ever been seen with high dose B12, the concern for doses is not a real factor for worry. Taking too little is more of a worry in fact!

[jingle]

Thank you mrsd. I'll take the 1000 mcg (from Sam's Club :p ) with confidence. And next time I'm in a city I'll look for some methyl.

[mrsD]

I have not seen the methylcobalamin locally commonly. Most of us who
use it, buy it on line. Our favorite place is www.iherb.com
There have been many over the years who have posted success with Jarrow's brand there.

Their prices are much lower than locally, and they are fast in delivery and
processing your order.

There is a good alternative locally by Country Life...
It is an another activated form of B12. I have found that commonly in local stores.
example: http://www.country-life.com/moreinfo.cfm?Category=15&Product_ID=191
You will pay more for this however, than the Jarrow brand.

(note-- many people use Iherb for their online shopping. We had a thread at
OBT on favorite online places at one time--- I do not have any financial
affiliation with any sales of any product mentioned here. If I direct someone it is because I have found an item of quality at a specific place that is affordable. For example for most things WalMart has
become a very complete provider. They even have the new high gamma E now. I have saved a bundle of $$ using online products. One recent example was 8oz of Inositol powder pharmaceutical grade by Jarrow for $12.95 at iherb.......locally it was $67.00! That is a huge difference but a typical example of $$ ranges ).

[rose]

I'm thrilled to hear of your experience.

Also, I want to say to you that it is common in people who are being damaged by B12 deficiency to begin to see some reaction to treatment after several days to two weeks.

However, those who do not see a reaction within that time should not assume that the B12 is doing no good. Rare people do not see a reaction for many months :eek: , up to 18 months is documented.

People who do not malabsorb severely will get much more out of their oral dose, but those who malabsorb severely (lack intrinsic factor, stomach removed or bypassed, etc.) will only absorb about 1% of the large dose by default.

I use Jarrow.

Do visit my website in progress. I emphasize that it is new and under construction (I'm learning to create a site while creating it). Much more will be added, but some very important basics are on the pages that do exist there: http://roseannster.googlepages.com/home

rose

[Buttons]

Hi Rose & Mrs. D!!!! Just wanted to say once again how much help I've gotten from your B12 information!

I tend to back off on ALL my vits when I'm going backwards on my health ( corny me huh?) Have been taking all my B's (1,2,6 & folic acid) along with my Methylcobalamin now for the past 10 days. Getting a wee bit of energy back, but MOST important is the deep depression is lifting.

I think I get soooo discouraged dealing with the Lyme 24/7 that I just figure why bother?? I tend to not take my OWN advice to others!

Just found this site today,have lots of catching up to do! Thanks again for all your help & to the newbies-take your vits!! Wonderful to hear of ANY doctor that recognizes the need for B12!

Take care,Buttons

[mrsD]

Nice to see you here!

You know the DRUGS used for Lyme are basically the culprits
as well as the disease itself. All of the antibiotics used are hard on
your system. Are you still on the drug therapy?

I thought of you this summer... I have some animal pics for you-- if
you are interested?

I have started a flickr acct... I only have 5 pics in it so far...
www.flickr.com/photos/mrs_doubtfyre

We had fun with our first and new digital camera.. That site is so interesting...
my son helped me set it up. If you click on the pics it even gives details about
the camera and settings etc. I hardly know what they even mean...groan!:p

[Buttons]

Mrs. D, I've never taken any anti-biotics for Lyme.....that would require having the good fortune of living where Lyme disease is actually recognized by at least ONE health professional during the past 8 years:rolleyes:

I am back on my herbals,Sarsparilla,Cat's Claw....and have just added Grapeseed extract to the mix.

I really went downhill this summer. Have had my "rescue dog" now for about 5 months,without him I wouldn't even get out to walk! I do recall how positive I felt last spring about IMPROVING (that's why I decided to get the dog).Here's hoping I will get back to that point once again!

What's the knowledge here about hot versus cold herbals? I get pretty confused about all this:confused: The bottom line is that some think if you mix a hot herb with a cold you end up with lukewarm. Adding further to the mix-vitamins! Minerals! What's a Lymie to do???

Later,Buttons
P.S. I'll check out your pics later,as I recall you have a cabin on an island right?

[Buttons]

Mrs. D the pics were great! When my dog sits in the seat his head reaches the top! wish I had a camera so I could post pics too....

Hope you had a great summer!

Went to new eye doc today,had listed all the vits/herbals I take,was asked why I take Cat's Claw,my response-"sorry but I no longer recall why". Had problems looking left/right,etc. so perhaps she thought I had dementia???:D

Later,Buttons

[KimS]

I knew that with MrsD and Rose here, I would find a B12 discussion! :D

Here's a whole list of studies... but I'll quote just one. It's my favourite because it gives dosage and the poss. of hypothyriodism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed

1: Sleep. (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'Sleep.');) 1991 Oct;14(5):414-8. Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu1759094);)
Treatment of persistent sleep-wake schedule disorders in adolescents with methylcobalamin (vitamin B12).


Ohta T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Ohta+T%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Ando K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Ando+K%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Iwata T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Iwata+T%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Ozaki N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Ozaki+N%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Kayukawa Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kayukawa+Y%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Terashima M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Terashima+M%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Okada T (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Okada+T%22%5BAuthor%5D),
Kasahara Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Kasahara+Y%22%5BAuthor%5D). Department of Psychiatry, Nagoya University School of Medicine, Japan.
Two adolescent patients suffering from persistent sleep-wake schedule disorders appear to have responded to treatment with vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin). A 15-year-old girl with delayed sleep phase syndrome (DSPS) and a 17-year-old boy with hypernychthemeral syndrome complained of not being able to attend school despite many trials of medication. The improvement of the sleep-wake rhythm disorders appeared immediately after the administration of high doses (3,000 micrograms/day) of methylcobalamin. Neither patient showed any laboratory or clinical evidence of vitamin B12 deficiency or hypothyroidism (which can cause B12 deficiency). Serum concentrations of vitamin B12 during treatment were in the high range of normal or above normal. The duration of the sleep period of the DSPS patient decreased gradually from 10 hours to 7 hours, and the time of sleep onset advanced from 2 a.m. to midnight. The period of the sleep-wake cycle of the hypernychthemeral patient was 24.6 hours before treatment and 24.0 hours after treatment. The relationship between the circadian basis of these disorders and vitamin B12 and its metabolites is discussed.