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Wing42
02-09-2007, 06:18 PM
Have any of you heard of this or tried it? http://www.microvas.com/ and http://www.google.com/search?q=microvas&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official and http://www.proximusmedical.com/Microvas.htm. The first link is to the MicroVas company website, and is a sales pitch. The pictures of wound and lesion healing are dramatic. The third link is another sales pitch, including how a practitioner can rake in the money using MicroVas. But if it works as advertised, it's worth it I guess.

This seems similar to the Rebuilder, Rejuvenator, TENS, etc. The large machine is for a hospital or other professional setting. I'll bet it's mainly empty space with an imposing facade. :rolleyes: I wonder if there's been independent studies of its effectiveness compared to other electrostimulators.




MelodyL
02-09-2007, 09:47 PM
I watched the slide show. I have never been so impressed in all my life.

NOW YOU KNOW I'M GOING TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS TO DR. FRED. I'm going to print out the article.

Sounds very very promising.

Melody

dahlek
02-10-2007, 05:07 AM
and it seems on the face of it to be another version of electro-stim.

I webbed it out further and could find no research about it's efficacy.

I for one simply wish I could be 'authorized' to receive electro stim therapies of any sort...Treatments in and of themselves don't last long, but things always seem to progress for the good FASTER with than without for me.

This doesn't answer your primary question tho. - j

glenntaj
02-10-2007, 07:48 AM
--considering the discussions of magnet therapy that have been going on here lately.

I started doing a little reserach, and have not really been able to find anything solidly scientific about the efficacy; most of what I've found falls into the personal testimony category. That may not be a strike against this type of therapy, as it is fairly new, but I do tend to be cautious when most of what can be found about a therapy are either personal testimonies or invitations to invest.

The theory behind the therapy is OK--there's certainly evidence for microvascular repair from electrical/magnetic stimulation, and microvascular damage does contribute to a lot of conditions, but I imagine this may eventually fall into a similar category as the Rebuilder, Anodyne, IFE, etc.--helpful in some conditions/for some people, but not necessarily others.

nide44
02-10-2007, 11:19 AM
I looked at the slide show and skimmed other info.
I didn't see a home unit. Did I miss it?
It seemed that the entire thing was for medical professionals, at
a cost of about $14K. The pix of the unit seems to be a small unit
on a large stainless cart to make it more impressive.
The principle seems to be the same as we've seen before in other
electrical stimulators, only the delivery may be more intense or of a different wavelength. The idea of oxygrenation of blood vessels and nerves thru electrical stimuilus is not new. There are others out there already.
As you say, David- the pix of healing and repair are dramatic.

Aussie99
02-10-2007, 05:20 PM
some of those foot ulcers were pretty horrific! I have not used electro stimulation for my PN. If I did that I'd need the pads to cover every surface of my body sadly enough.

But My physiotherapist who I have seen very often in past due to herniated and inflamed discs in lumbar region uses the tens machine for my lower back, and I love it.

By nature I am not too skeptical, and if something like this was available over here, and I could afford it, I would be queuing up for a go.

MelodyL
02-10-2007, 08:02 PM
I know what a tens unit is and I believe that Dr. Theirl once told Alan that if he wanted to borrow his, that he would loan it to him.

Now what exactly does it do? Alan has PN on some of his toes of each foot. His problem is between the toes, not on the toes. The stabbing and the pins and needles. Only when he lays flat on his back or he sits in a certain position.

Do you use the tens with water?

I just might bring it up to Alan that he might like to borrow Dr. Theirl's unit for tryout.

Do you think it might help Alan's PN?

thanks, Melody

Brian
02-10-2007, 09:53 PM
I think that all these devices are working on the same principle as magnetic therapy, they increase the blood circulation which brings oxygen and nutrients to the targeted area.
T.E.N.S means = Transcutaneous/ Electrical/ Nerve /Stimulation

Transcutaneous means 'through the skin'. TENS machines deliver small electrical pulses to the body via electrodes placed on the skin. TENS machines are thought to affect the way pain signals are sent to the brain. Pain signals reach the brain via nerves and the spinal cord. If pain signals can be blocked then the brain will receive fewer signals from the source of the pain. We may then feel less pain.
When the machine is set on a high pulse rate (90-130 Hz) it triggers the 'pain gate' to close. This is thought to block a pain nerve pathway to the brain. This is the normal method of use.
When the machine is set on a low pulse rate (2-5 Hz) it stimulates the body to make its own pain easing chemicals called endorphins. These act a bit like morphine to block pain signals.
Brian :)

MelodyL
02-10-2007, 09:59 PM
So, and this might sound like a dumb question, if I am able to get this tens unit, where does he place the electrodes?. Between the toes, or on top of the toes, or on his back, (if indeed he's getting the PN from the spinal stenosis)?

thanks,
Melody

Brian
02-10-2007, 11:00 PM
So, and this might sound like a dumb question, if I am able to get this tens unit, where does he place the electrodes?. Between the toes, or on top of the toes, or on his back, (if indeed he's getting the PN from the spinal stenosis)?

thanks,
Melody

Melody
I would guess placing them on his lower spine , he may get benefit out of the TENS machine when he's lying on his back or the other position when it starts, although i am not to sure about the lasting affects of stimulators, once you turn them off.

Wing42
02-10-2007, 11:57 PM
I hope to do a post on the basis of electro stimulation and both animal and clinical research.

I think we should always be very skeptical of self advertising websites.

They may really be convinced and sincerely believe they have the best thing since sliced bread. If so, they will tend to dismiss as irrelevent, or not even consciously see the cases that aren't helped or are harmed by their product.

They may be lying through their teeth. If so, they will cynically not report the cases that aren't helped or are harmed by their product, and will exagerate good results. Those pictures could be digitally altered. That's why we need double blind or clinical studies by disinterested researchers.

reneesblues1167
07-02-2010, 04:45 PM
Melody
I would guess placing them on his lower spine , he may get benefit out of the TENS machine when he's lying on his back or the other position when it starts, although i am not to sure about the lasting affects of stimulators, once you turn them off.


Hi everyone,
I have been getting the MicroVas treatments twice a week for the past two weeks now. I have arthritis in my feet and have had several surgeries including ankle fusions in both feet, sub-talor fusions in both feet and many more....in both feet...lol. I was born with clubbed feet due to a rare condition called Mobius Syndrome (neurological disorder, only 2,000 cases in the world.) Anyway, I noticed a marked improvemnet in my arthritis pain THE FIRST DAY. I've also used a TENS unit in the past which worked but not as much as the MicroVas. The best part is that Medicare does pay for it. The only thing it doesn't cover are the pads, 6 total, which ran $47. They are reused throughout the treatment which last 8 weeks.

I highly, highly, highly recommend trying this. It is totally worth it. I alsohave spinal stenosis in my L3&4 and would love if my Pain Management doc would get this unit. For now, I just use the TENS that I have on my back when the pain gets really bad.

The treatments are just like the feeling you experience with a TENS except that the "shock" alternates, on-off, on-off. They last 45 minutes. It's pretty painless.

Anyway, like I said, I recommend this treatment if your doctor offers it to you.

I hope this helps.

Renee B.

Electron
07-07-2010, 04:17 PM
I live near the HQ of MicroVas (Tulsa, OK). The owner Wayne Buchner spoke at one of our neuropathy group's meetings. He made some claims about the system that I think were sensational and overstated, for example "will absolutely reverse neuropathy" etc. I later called him and asked several questions about the system. I asked him several times the difference between MicroVas and TENS and he did not give me a satisfactory answer. Anyway I tried the treatment and it did not help me significantly. But that doesn't mean it won't help you. I say it's worth a try.

They put some large sticky pads on my feet and other parts of my body, usually four pads at a time. An electric current is passed between pairs of pads, for example on opposite sides of the foot, so the current goes deep into the tissue. I could feel the current but it was not painful. It was sometimes painful when they removed the pads, especially from hairy areas (legs).

Here are my complete notes on the treatment if you are interested:

Jan. 26, 2009 - First visit to Dr. Jack Brown and first MicroVas treatment. Dr. Brown told me the same as other drs--We have no cure for this, the best we can do is improve your quality of life. He gave me a prescription for Tramadol 50 mg and said to take 1-2 per day. Also gave me samples of Metanx, a "medicinal food" as it says on the label. It is a mix of vitamins & supplements. I don't plan to start these until I see the results of the MicroVas. After the first MicroVas treatment, I believe my right foot felt better for two hours or so, then was back to normal.
I was treated with MicroVas 5 times by Trish at Dr. Jack Brown's office in Sand Springs (Sand Springs Medical Associates). Treatments were 1/26, 1/29, 2/2, 2/4, 2/5. The only improvement I ever felt was for maybe 2 hours after the first treatment my feet felt a little better. Otherwise no improvement, possibly a little worse at times. The strength of the treatment felt fairly strong. Dr. Brown thought I should have seen improvement after 5 treatments if I was going to. He suggested accupuncture & gave me a card for someone. He suggested one other course of treatment but I can't remember and can't find my notes, may find them later, I'm pretty sure they were in a small notebook.

Patent Awarded To MicroVas, Oklahoma Medical Technology Company:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_June_28/ai_n6088457

If you want the owner's phone # send me a private message.
Electron