PDA

View Full Version : Herbs instead of neurontin or cymbalta




skyspirit
03-28-2007, 06:29 AM
:Crazy 2: What does anyone think of using herbs instead of taking lots of meds? I'm taking 30 mg of cymbalta and 1800 mg of neurontin for pain right now. Ever since they uped my neurontin I'm not sleeping good, I talk too much in my sleep. I'm not against medications, especially these ones, cause they're not narcotic, but it's usualy not for me. I'll contact my doctor before I stop taking them.Has anyone experienced sleep isues with a high dose of neurontin? If so, please email me at SKYSPIRIT@AOL.COM. Thanks everyone and take care.
:circlelove:




Chemar
03-28-2007, 08:11 AM
skyspirit
it really does depend on why you need the meds and whether there are herbal or other supplements that can substitute efficiently for them

my son did not do well on the meds for Tourette Syndrome/OCD and has benefited tremendously from a supplement treatment program

but this really isnt something you should do without careful consideration and also SLOW withdrawal of your meds...it isnt a good idea to just suddenly stop!
Also, before you introduce any herbs etc...be sure they dont have a negative interaction with the meds you are on

skyspirit
03-29-2007, 05:10 AM
They have me on the meds for nerve pain from possible multiple sclerosis that's in remission right now, supposably. I'm going to get with a naturopathic doctor and see what to do. I stopped my meds 4 days ago and take 1 mg melatonin to fall asleep right now. I feel fine, so I'm not worried about me stopping the meds. I'm contacting my physician to see if it's ok to take herbs instead. I don't think that anyone has a right to tell someone that holistic way of life is not a consideration. In my eye's, the doctors that I've been dealing with told me to keep doing what makes me feel good and the meds were messing me up, so I'll go with my gut feeling. Thanks for the reply.
:hug:

jarrett622
05-05-2007, 12:24 AM
Consider this: Anything you put in to your body that has an effect is in essence a drug. Whether it's labeled as such or not.

AK Kid
05-05-2007, 10:26 AM
I too was put on Neurtontin (Gabapentin) for nerve pain. I started to list what this drug did to me but decided against it. Suffice it to say it did not work for "nerve pain".

Being Native American with elders that did not have access to adequate health care until about 10 years ago, I grew up with people who utilized nature around them.

I do not like taking pills, my doc's know that - and will always revert to drinking teas or utilizing natural remedies.

There are a host of teas that help with calming (with me any tea calms me down) but Grandma would use Pineapple plant (Alaskan Chamomile) and Raspberry leaf tea right before bedtime.

Valarian root and melatonin really help with falling asleep.

Talk to your doctor though I remember that I had to be wiened off the neurontin, you have to dose down or you really will get some bad side effects.


All the best - Kim

Xil1
06-16-2007, 09:58 PM
I've found that for msot pain and aillments in general, cannabis is a very effective and safe herb to utilize. Just thought I'd join to tell you not to overlook this particular remedy (since you seem interested in an jerbal approach).

If this post somehow breaks the rules of the forum would a moderator please delete it?

jarrett622
06-17-2007, 12:48 AM
I've found that for msot pain and aillments in general, cannabis is a very effective and safe herb to utilize. Just thought I'd join to tell you not to overlook this particular remedy (since you seem interested in an jerbal approach).

If this post somehow breaks the rules of the forum would a moderator please delete it?

For me, pot makes any pain I have more intense. And having anxiety disorder it's a no-no for me. I know many people that pot works well for as a pain reliever. But not me. I don't think it makes my pain worse actually, it just makes me *think* my pain is worse as I can't seem to focus on anything else. If that makes sense.

I prefer the more natural routes myself but people have to remember that anything we put into our bodies that has an effect on any part of our bodies is a drug. Natural or otherwise.

theoneRogue420
06-17-2007, 04:18 AM
I'm with Xil1 on this. Marijuana is one of the best medicines available, and replaces many other drugs in just one dose.

But Jarret is right, too... depending upon the variety and strain, mj CAN make pain worse. There are several varieties that cause the blood to pound in my veins, and those are a big no-no for me. Each person must find the type that works best for them, and the only way to do that is experimentation ;)

The gov't tries to make mj sound so awful, yet they prescribe Marinol (synthetic THC) for me and my hubby. They won't let me grow my own, yet they'll happily make the taxpayers foot the bill for this expensive medicine. I should probably NOT get into what this does for my self-respect, either... taking a hand-out when I could easily grow my own meds.

IMO, it's the pharmaceutical companies that are dead-set against mj being legalized. There is no money in it for them, rather it will replace some meds that are the bread-and-butter of these companies. Imagine not needing Neurontin, Valium, Prilosec, Klonopin... the list is endless. I am proof positive that mj works. When I had it, I didn't need all those pills. When I could no longer get mj, I was right back on the meds. Not the particular ones I used as example above, but pills nonetheless. Too many pills... with all their side effects which require even more pills <sigh>

My mother has many health conditions, and she takes more drugs than anyone I have ever met. They have even led her into drug-induced Lupus, yay! One day, she asked me to smoke a joint with her... this was years ago... so of course I said yes.

She had the best day she had had in many years. Her pain was greatly reduced, and her nerves were settled. She seemed at peace for a change. To see her smiling and laughing, actually swinging her feet as we chatted... it made my heart swell. Then my father came into the picture. Well, that killed her good mood, made her ashamed of having been happy for a few short moments, and put her right back where she started. What a shame. :(

The final point for me is this: God created mj, man created pills... who do you trust more?

anasazi23
06-18-2007, 03:58 PM
One problem with MJ; the smoke is very bad for your lung tissue.

Xil1
06-18-2007, 04:39 PM
eat it, vape it, so many options. and as long as you are relatively active it doesn't do very much damage to lung tissue at all.

jarrett622
06-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Neurontin made me suicidal. I think I'd take my chances with the MJ if it worked in that way for me.

All drugs have sides. Some worse than others. When a drug creates more problems than what it was given for...well, that makes no sense to me.

Curious
06-18-2007, 06:35 PM
I've found that for msot pain and aillments in general, cannabis is a very effective and safe herb to utilize. Just thought I'd join to tell you not to overlook this particular remedy (since you seem interested in an jerbal approach).

If this post somehow breaks the rules of the forum would a moderator please delete it?


:wink: you aren't selling are you?

you aren't breaking any rules. it's a good discusion.

theoneRogue420
06-19-2007, 09:47 AM
:wink: you aren't selling are you?

you aren't breaking any rules. it's a good discusion.

I totally agree, Curious. It's a topic many people are afraid to bring up, and many more just don't know anything about it. I have had many discussions about mj with people in the oddest places, lol... mainly in game rooms online. You might be surprised how many elderly ladies playing bingo are interested in the subject.

It usually starts out with us discussing aids, another subject many people have troubles talking about. But once they find someone online willing to be open about it, the questions come flooding out. And once they find out I use Marinol and have smoked pot in the past (and would again today if someone had some, lol) they have even more questions, mainly about how it would pertain to their particular health complaint.

There is only one serious side effect to consuming (no, you don't have to smoke it, although that is the usual method) mj... it's a possible weight gain. But from what I hear, the meds like Neurontin are even worse. Not all mj gives one "the munchies", most do. But you can counter-act that by keeping good healthy snacks at the ready. Have carrot sticks, broccoli celery and dip available in the fridge... don't wait to make it after you've taken your medicine. You will probably say "why bother?" and reach for a candy bar.. or call pizza hut, lol. :eek:

anasazi23
06-19-2007, 03:34 PM
If you smoke it, alot of damage can be done. It is highly resinous and the smoke in general is worse that cigs. Cig smokes usually do worse as they smoke more often. Eating it is relatively safe.

theoneRogue420
06-20-2007, 12:44 AM
I totally disagree with the statement that the smoke is worse than cigs. The fact that you smoke much less of it than you do cigs makes a huge difference too.

Also, smoked mj is an expectorant... it helped me cough up the nasty junk the cig smoking left behind! (It also doesn't cause cancer... maybe emphazema, but not cancers.) As the peeps in the rsd forum know, and I'm pretty sure this is true in other conditions... the active ingredient in expectorants is a major no-no. It can have some horrible reactions with other meds.

But instead of traditional smoking methods, a vaporizer is a much better way to consume your meds. There are others who can explain it much better than I... such as NORML. Here is a link: http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizers.html

However, it is highly recommended that you eat it instead of drawing it into your lungs. There are many ways to do so, from salads to cookies/brownies. I was a moderator on a medical mj site, and one of my fav areas was the recipes section. I still know some of them if anyone cares to PM me.

daniella
06-20-2007, 06:16 AM
I'm actually reading a book about nutrient for neuropathy. It talks about vitamin supplements and sometimes up to 4 times the amount to help aid. Of course check with your doc cause mine didn't sound to excited about that. I do feel gp know less about this type of treatment then a holisitc type of doc. I wanted a combo though of meds and supp and I know most holistic don't believe in meds as much. Also have you thought about acupuncture? Ok good luck.

jarrett622
06-20-2007, 08:40 AM
What is the name of the book you're reading, daniella? I'd like to check it out.

jarrett622
06-20-2007, 08:47 AM
In my younger days, we always used a water pipe, or bong as it's called. That seemed to be the best way, the least irritating if one has problems with respiratory irritants. Eating it...I tried brownies a couple of times but had difficulties getting past the taste. Was it something we did wrong? Of course way back then the level of THC, etc. in pot was nowhere near what it is today. So we had to probably use way more than one would have to today.

daniella
06-20-2007, 10:17 AM
What is the name of the book you're reading, daniella? I'd like to check it out.

Nutrients for Neuropathy,Numb toes and aching soles:Coping with peripheral neuropathy, and Numb toes and other woes:More on peripheral neuropathy
I thought they offered some good info but I think some of the stuff they suggest really needs to be checked by the doc.

jarrett622
06-20-2007, 12:43 PM
That's funny. On our website (my other half and I) there is a link to Amazon for this book. Guess it's a sign, huh?

theoneRogue420
06-21-2007, 04:38 AM
Jarrett, mj is never going to taste particularly good, lol. What medicine does? But I bet you did what every young person does, and put mj straight into your brownies. Yuckos!

The best method for using mj for baking is to make mj butter, and then replace the reg.butter/margarine called for in the recipe with it. It keeps for a very long time when refrigerated, so you can make a big batch at a time.

When done this way, you strain out ALL the sediment, and end up with green butter. It can be cooked with, put on toast, whatever. I used to make cinnamon toast with it, to help mask the flavor. Add a cup of hot cocoa, and you're all set!

But here's a warning for anyone considering eating mj or cooking with it... the effects last much longer than smoked mj (Another reason for consuming it instead... it goes a lot farther when used this way). If you try this, make sure you have a full day of no responsibilities just in case you overdo it. ;)

stagger
07-12-2007, 07:15 AM
After 5 years of all the testing and mediciations I have found taking Lyrica 75mg x 2 and a halfbowl at nite 1 hour before bed time makes for a great nites sleep and a following morning with a pain of 1 that being the tingling , also able to walk with a fairly good gait. There is an article from a major medical school in the neuropathy association newsletter about paitents using marijuana for pn pain. A while back I went cold turkey due to maxing out on a drug mixture I was taking and after reading this article I experienced the relief that mj has to offer. Vicodin is very addictive in case you wanted to know. If you are taking a mixture of meds please pay attention to the PIS as side effects might be more harmful. Hope this helps you nice people

theoneRogue420
07-22-2007, 04:14 AM
Stagger mentions addiction in the last post, which raises a question for me. I have always wanted to know how many people truly experience withdrawal? I have, in my lifetime, quit crystal meth, paxil (numerous times), vicodin and morphine. I never had a bit of trouble doing it. My mood might have been a little flaky for the first few days, but that's about it. No physical problems, though.

How about any of you?

(if this is a "thread stealer" or what ever, I'd be happy to move it, just let me know)

JD3#2
07-24-2007, 03:17 PM
To come back to the original post, stopping an anti-seziure medication too fast, i.e. neurontin, can result in big trouble. It is technically not a withdrawl and is better understood now than years ago. But still it does not hurt to caution people:)

shiney sue
07-24-2007, 04:23 PM
I remember those days,oh well. Yes the first first post do not please
just don't go off cold turkey. I admire what you want to do,but call your
Dr. he-she will tell you how to go off. After all they can't make you
stay on it. Dan i posted his books awhile back,i enjoyed them and he
had the bucks and whatever to try all of everything, I think he was
a lawyer and is in his eighty's. Anyhow i use to pass them around
at the PN support group i started.
My oldest son and I had a fun day like that once,we couldn' stop
laughing. Ha :cool: Sue

MSacorn
07-24-2007, 08:04 PM
Stagger mentions addiction in the last post, which raises a question for me. I have always wanted to know how many people truly experience withdrawal? I have, in my lifetime, quit crystal meth, paxil (numerous times), vicodin and morphine. I never had a bit of trouble doing it. My mood might have been a little flaky for the first few days, but that's about it. No physical problems, though.

How about any of you



My MS neuro back in OH, always told me it is not addiction if you use it as prescribed ... it is dependence. Necessary for sympom relief.

Just my 2cents. Will go back to lurking now.

macgirl
07-27-2007, 11:09 AM
I have been on Neurontin for 7 years; each time they tried to lower my dose or wean me off I would have flare-ups with my RSD. I don't think I would try an herbal treatment instead of it, but I would be willing to for the other medications I'm on.

InHisHands
07-27-2007, 12:12 PM
My MS neuro back in OH, always told me it is not addiction if you use it as prescribed ... it is dependence. Necessary for sympom relief.

Just my 2cents. Will go back to lurking now.

Interesting thread here:
Taking Narcotics/Opiates,worth the read even if a bit long
I copied this from a newsletter I receive called "Dominie's Newsletter" dated November 1, 2006 written for people with Fibromyalgia, CFS, &/or M.E. Well this article could pretain to anyone in severe pain. I not only have RSD, but also Fibromyalgia & Sjogren's Syndrome. I have read concern from members here & from other websites in the past about how we, who take powerful pain medications for severe pain &/or how some of us are scared to take powerful pain medications for fear of addiction or what other people will/would think of us, including our own Doctors. Well Dominie was sent this from another reader of her website/newsletter, who was not named or I would give that person complete credit for what she wrote, on this specific subject. The drug that she is talking about is Oxycontin. But this could pretain to any opiate/narcotic that anyone of us may take for RSD pain.

"People don't become addicted to oxycontin in three days. It just does not happen that fast. Talk to any medical specialist (doctor, nurse, pharmacist) and they will tell you. Yes, after two weeks if you stop cold turkey, you will have withdrawal symptoms. You should NEVER stop a medication like that cold turkey, but that does not mean the medicine is addictive. You should not stop heart medication cold turkey, you should not stop diabetes meds cold turkey, you should not stop steroids cold turkey because you will have side effects if you do. Some can be dangeorus. But you don't hear anyone say they are addicted to heart medicine! Withdrawal symptoms means your body has become accustomed to having the drug in your system, but that is NOT addiction.

You should take great care with ANY medicine and should know the facts, potential side effects, potential problems with other medicines, etc. We must take responsibility for what we put in our bodies. But we should not shy away from pain medicine if it will help us function, particularly if the pain is severe and nothing else helps. Side effects from stopping a medication can be avoided altogether or greatly reduced if you do so according to directions and oxycontin is one you do not stop cold turkey w/o side effects.

As for oxycontin being an abused street drug, yes it is one of many drugs used by junkies. NOT because it is highly addictive but because it is a time-released pill and when you crush it, you get the entire dose at one time. This gets a person very high. It is also extremely dangerous, particularly with the higher dose tablets. The tablets most people are given for pain are the lower dose ones. You only get the higher dose ones when you have something like cancer and only after you work your way up to the higher amounts. When taken properly for pain control, oxycontin is no more addictive than any other pain medicine (i.e. the % are very low). The only reason oxycontin is sought out by street junkies more than some others is the slow-release aspect giving them a bigger high. When taken as directed for pain control, a person doesn't even get a mild buzz from it once your body adapts to the side effects.

If taken properly, pain medicine can be extremely beneficial. Of course if there is a natural remedy that works I would take that before I would take a prescription drug. But sometimes you need prescription medicines. The main thing people need to do is research. Don't put something in your body until you have read, read, read and know all there is to know about it. Some people think just because a doctor writes a prescription, it must be safe and that is a very dangerous mindset. Just as it is dangerous to assume that just because something is sold over the counter, it must be safe. Even water, taken in excess, can kill. Too much water in a short period of time will throw off your electrolytes and cause your brain to swell and you can die.

It frustrates us when the medical community poo-pahs natural remedies, esp. when we know they work. But there are people in the natural healing arena that can be just as close-minded by only accepting natural remedies and refusing to even consider prescription meds. For me, I take natural remedies 99% of the time, but there is that 1% I take that isn't.

I don't think anyone should take opiates lightly, but I also don't think they should be scared out of taking them because there are people that use them on the street to get high. There are people who use pseudoephedrine to make crystal meth, but that doesn't mean people with a runny nose shouldn't take a decongestant. There are people who sniff glue to get high, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to use glue. It's all in using it for its intended purpose correctly.

It is hard enough to have a disease people make fun of and disbelieve. We shouldn't also have to deal with the stigma of being a "drug addict" when we take pain medicine. People who take insulin for diabetes aren't bad-mouthed. People who take heart medicine or anti-seizures meds aren't made to feel bad for it. Why do so many sit in judgment of those who must take pain medicine?

If you find yourself taking more medicine than prescribed, if you find yourself doing whatever it takes to get more and more drugs (stealing your doctor's prescription pad, buying them illegally over the internet, stealing them from people's medicine cabinets, seeing more than one doctor to get more meds), then you have a problem and should seek help. But if you are taking the medicine as prescribed to control severe pain you cannot control with anything else, then don't let others make you feel guilty for doing so. And don't let others scare you into avoiding them."

I hope this was/is helpful to atleast one person out there. If you would be interested in her website you can find it here:

http://www.fms-help.com/

DebbyV€
(from: http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=5236) :hug:

theoneRogue420
07-27-2007, 12:24 PM
Nice post, IHH! Thanks for sharing that.

I totally agree with it. The word addiction is bandied about too readily, it's become a crutch. Not that there aren't true addicts... I met many of them in San Diego and Mexico.

I also agree with using a combination of herbal and pharmaceutical remedies. I know that using medical marijuana cuts back greatly on my need for narcotics, which can only be a good thing. I have no anxiety meds, but I use tea in the same way. Medical mj is great for anxiety, too. It rarely makes one paranoid, regardless of the rumors.

There is never going to be one regime that fits all patients, that's just impossible. I think that everyone in as much pain as us rsd'ers are in, should try anything they can to get some relief.

jarrett622
07-27-2007, 01:55 PM
Nice post, IHH! Thanks for sharing that.

I totally agree with it. The word addiction is bandied about too readily, it's become a crutch. Not that there aren't true addicts... I met many of them in San Diego and Mexico.

I also agree with using a combination of herbal and pharmaceutical remedies. I know that using medical marijuana cuts back greatly on my need for narcotics, which can only be a good thing. I have no anxiety meds, but I use tea in the same way. Medical mj is great for anxiety, too. It rarely makes one paranoid, regardless of the rumors.

There is never going to be one regime that fits all patients, that's just impossible. I think that everyone in as much pain as us rsd'ers are in, should try anything they can to get some relief.



Pot may not make one paranoid but it does trigger and can increase anxiety and panic attacks in people. It did this to me. It also depends on the kind of pot it is. Just like meds we all react differently to the different varieties of pot out there. Pot doesn't do diddly squat for me for any kind of pain relief. It does the opposite. It makes any pain I have more intense. So that's not a solution for me. :(

daniella
07-29-2007, 07:30 AM
I really don't know that much about meds but was eductaed more at the pain clinic program where many were overusers though I am not at all myself. During this 6 months of pain for a few months I was on vicadin and when I quit completly before I went about a month ago I had no craving or issues. I think it depends on the person. I did notice from the people who had issues with prescription drug and overuse they also used other drugs that were not prescription. I may be wrong and I'm sure there are some who just overuse the prescription but I did see a trend of both drugs overused. For a person who the prescription drugs seem to not work for other then the bad side effects I'm in a little different spot. In general I do think its a combo of things to work overall. So maybe the meds,supplements,therapy,pt so on.

theoneRogue420
08-15-2007, 08:46 AM
Jarrett, yes I agree with you on most things you said. I have personally known several people who should stay far away from mmj (medical marijuana).

I just know what it does for me... or would do if I was allowed to use it these days.

I have had rsd/crps since 1993. I had a surgery that went bad. The dr.s immediately saw that I had rsd and decided to cut their losses and declare me "ready to return to work".

I received NO monetary or physical aids in any way after that, except what I managed to procure on my own. I managed to get great dr.s to treat me and HOPE they get paid one day, I even got into the fed. trial study of Guanethidine.

But of course I couldn't get meds. I could barely feed my kids and dogs, and we lived in a decrepit tin-roofed house in the Az. desert so I could get the trial study done in Phoenix. But then one day a friend came to me and suggested mmj. I tried it, and it worked. Simple as that. And it cost me nothing, so I wouldn't have complained anyway, lol. The barter system is a wonderful thing.

I eventually won my work comp case, but all the money went to the dr.s. I also got on SSI and medicaid. I had to get aids first, but at least I am getting help for whatever time I have left.

But here's the rub: I cannot use mmj or I will lose all my benefits. Mind you, they prescribe Marinol, the pharmaceutical version, for me and my partner every month. It costs the taxpayers $2000 each month, and doesn't do as good a job as mmj. I feel like crappola about it, too. If they would let me grow my own mmj, I would cost the citizens of this country far less each month than I do now, and would have some self-respect, too!

Here's the list of meds they have had to prescribe just to get me through a day. ALL of them were unnecessary when I was using mmj. I take other meds too, but they can't be replaced by mmj.

Baclofen, vicodin, morphine, marinol, phenergan, ambien & relpax.

Also, before I started taking all these pharmies, there was never any indication that I had epilepsy... but I have it now! I didn't have migraines, which I now have at least twice a week.

If there was ANY way I could go back to using mmj to treat myself, I would in a minute. But as it stands, I will lose my money, my housing, my dr.s and my aids meds. Crazy, isn't it? I live in a "Green State", but the feds have everyone running scared. I can't get an rx from a reputable dr., they are too afraid of losing their licenses. They straight up tell me it would be much better for me than the pharmies, but their hands are tied. The other alternative is to pay $300 to a "dr." that doesn't care about his license because he is inches away from losing it anyway, due to his own issues. But then, if I ever got caught, while the feds and the state argue about who gets to have jurisdiction over me and my health care, I will be broke, hungry, homeless and in pain. Or, possibly, I could be in jail not getting my meds at all. Great choices, huh?

What it all boils down to is this: I should have the right to treat myself with the medicines that the dr.s think would help me most. MMJ is tops on that list. And all the taxpayers would benefit as well.... my partner and I are NOT the only aids patients on Marinol! There are at least 100 patients here locally at the aids clinic that use it, too. And most all of them are on medicaid too. At $2000 a month per person, that is totally insane! That's just in one city of 500,000 folks. No way should the taxpayers have to foot the bill for all of us.

So for anyone who doesn't want or need mmj, or doesn't know anyone who needs it, there is STILL a reason you should work to help make it legal everywhere: your own pockets.

vermeirenart
08-16-2007, 07:24 AM
Hello Sky spirit
I want to response to your questions about taking herbs. Along with an anti-depressant taken at low dosages to take care of neuropathic pain, I also take omega 3, vitamine C's, for summer time. In winter I add salmon oil. The natural elements of my daily intake targets the pain in my joints specifically.
Last year I was taking vitamine C's at the dosage of 3-4,000mgs daily. It helped me tremendously. I now lowered the vit C's because my body tells me that I don't need as much.
Personally I believe that conventional medicine and allopathic medicine can be friends and complement each other as long as one has studied the interaction between the two. My pain level can become quite intolerant to say the least, I refused to be in pain constantly and become inactive as a result of it. So I take both. My neurologist is aware of it as well and has approved.
It is thought that herbal preparations are not as potent or damaging as chemically prepared meds. I have a different outlook about that. I feel the herbal preparations can be as damaging as the chemical meds if not taken properly. One has to be careful not to damage the liver which is the Great Filter of all.
:holysheep:
louise
arachnoiditiscanada.com