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burckle
04-02-2007, 09:13 AM
Does anyone have any thoughts (comments) on the French nun who was miraculously cured of PD?

Lloyd




BEMM
04-02-2007, 11:15 AM
I've thought from the first time I heard of her that she had sympathetic PD symptoms, like men who have morning sickness and swollen ankles in sympathy with their pregnant wives, and like religious fanatics who develop stigmatas in hands and feet.
I'm sure she did not do this on purpose, and I know there will never be any way to prove me right, since we all of us PDers are diagnosed on symptoms only. She adored the Pope, and suffered with him. She was in such sympathy with his suffering that she imitated it, never realizing that it was hysteria and not PD that caused her symptoms.
The Pope died, and her symptoms died with him. I wish mine were hysteria too. I don't have any objection to calling her recovery a miracle if it makes people happy. But it wasn't one. What do you think??

birte

lou_lou
04-02-2007, 12:47 PM
:hug:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17887739/site/newsweek/

in my opinion: not intended to hurt anyone, or step on toes of my friends -

I do not believe the dead Pontiff healed anyone.

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools, and realized that man made religion
the doctrine of the catholic Church says if a baby dies before Baptism -it will die and go to purgatory, and suffer for it's sin -making Jesus sacrifice on the cross -obsolete...
and the old Roman church, had a fire sale on those loved one in the middle ages, and only the priest could pray you beloved child -etc out of this place.
this almost hell like place... for money.
if you wish to study Roman Catholicism, please do.

(no anger just my belief)

steffi 001
04-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Not wanting to start a riot on religion,Christianity or anything else for that matter I just need to add...when folk know that I have a faith,invariably the question " Well why hasn`t God healed you then?" follows.
My answer remains the same.My faith sustains me.It enables me to cope witih the grief that IS PARKINSON`S DISEASE. On my own I could not be as positive I am certain.
A miracle?
I cannot say whether or not miracles occur.I have seen people prayed for,and then claim to be healed. Who am I to doubt that if they believe it.For me,as I have said....my healing started within, equipping me with coping strategies, a love I cannot describe,and an unwavering belief in God.
I didn`t know about this nun,but I tend to agree with Tena.
My reason...the God I know wouldn`t select just a chosen few.If He was going to cure us ...He would cure us ALL.
I am sorry..it angers and bewilders me when priests put out the line "If you had a strong enough faith...you would be healed"
I prefer to think of it as....God can use us all...even those with broken bodies...each one of us as precious as the next.

Whoops/.Have I messed up here.

x

Virginia Therese
04-02-2007, 01:58 PM
Birte...what an interesting point of view regarding the nun's "miracle"!!!

...and Steffi...how powerful, your response to this!
You said "my healing started from within...a love you cannot describe and an unwavering belief in God."
Your God and mine seem to be one in the same...a God who does not "pick and choose" who will be healed and who will NOT be healed. I guess one could say that my perspective reverts to the "free will" teaching...that it is WE who are responsible for what happens and what does not. How many times have I heard the question, "Why did God allow this or that?" My response to this has always been that He "allows" it because to "disallow" it would be in conflict with the free will that I and others have been given. I think I am taking this a little too far, now. I usually adhere to the advice, " Do not discuss religion and politics"...and anything I've said, here, is meant only as what I, myself, believe with no intention to project nor "inflict" my beliefs on anyone...they are precisely that...MY beliefs. I found this, though, to be a very interesting topic, and I'm sure we'll read many different views about it.

Therese (aka Virginia)...still not use to using my middle name!!!

EnglishCountryDancer
04-02-2007, 02:11 PM
Would a small stroke in the correct part of the brain work like Deep Brain Stimulation?This would not stop it being a miracle.I have no recognised faith.

paula_w
04-02-2007, 03:54 PM
TV preachers have not done anything for my faith in miraculous healing. I think miraculous healings are just that and it's hard to accept any that have occurred "conveniently" or "on demand."

I'm curious about her medical history and medications. There isn't much to go on....the media isn't going to provide this.

I believe in real miracles and think they occur all the time. There are a lot of people in this world to be blessed in some miraculous way every day. I picture God chuckling at all the discussion that will occur by religious leaders over this as he quietly and with great omnipotence continues as he always has - working and healing through people like you and me.

paula

I had another thought. This event is provocative by nature but also by the roads it may create. I think that is how I [personally] could use any spiritual nature that may be available from this exercise in miracle definition.

aftermathman
04-02-2007, 04:10 PM
but I find the whole thing insulting and bizarre.

Better not say anymore as I have learned never to discuss politics, religion or house prices on an internet forum :)

Neil.

steffi 001
04-02-2007, 05:16 PM
I just wanted to clarify that I wasn`t in any way disagreeing with what Birte said.I think she has amazing common sense.My angle was from a totally unrelated response really to anyting other than the doctrines whicih Tena so very clearly and concisey pointed out,which put so many people off having any interest in Christianity.A totally different thing from religion.
Yeah...each time I see a tiny fingernail on a new baby I suppose I do think "miracle".
It`s a bloody miracle I`m still here after the eHopi ear candles..:p
just wanted to keep it light.


Love ya Birte :hug:
x

made it up
04-02-2007, 05:22 PM
Therese, I think you have a good point re perhaps a stroke. Have heard of that happening.
Perhaps if she'd had a PET scan before the miracle and afterwards I wouldn't feel so sceptical as it would really be the closest we have to a clinical diagnosis of P.D.
A fellow in my capital city claims to have had M.S.A. and cured himself completely of any symptoms of a Parkinson like illness.
He makes a lot of money having written a book re his "cure" and running workshops and giving seminars. He makes me mad (that's putting it nicely!)
Unfortunately he gained access to our states Parkinsons association with a notice sent to us all, and that could have given him some sort of credibility in the eyes of some PWP.
I'm not saying the nun will be out to make a dollar from her miracle but I do find the whole thing a bit hard to swallow.
Cheers,
Lee

made it up
04-02-2007, 05:26 PM
Sorry Therese, meant to quote english country dancer re her idea of a stroke.
Thanks,
Lee

paula_w
04-02-2007, 09:52 PM
In the first utterance of the words 'thank you button' since it was an issue, I have to thank Tena, for her diplomatic and I believe sincere thanks for all of the posts in this thread.

you have a good spirit - where is your poetry?

chatty paula

lou_lou
04-03-2007, 02:10 AM
dear paula,
ok here's an oldie in memory of dear Blu, she liked this one!
:)


Oh, Just Let me Hate Him!
by tenalouise


I hate that Mr. Parkinson's
that univited one,
he followed me in hot pursuit
until the deed was done.

No respecter of person's is he
Nor kind and gentle fella
I think he's just a coward
I 'll rename him - Mr. Yellah

Hey! Mr. Yellah, leave me alone!
I don't like you, cuz you stink!
You have made me mad and very sad
You've pushed me to the brink!

So now you know my enemy
To whom I don't belong,
Glad the day , I'll hear them say
The cure has come along.

And when my fight has ended
I'll tell that PD punk
Those brilliant ones that did you in
Are smarter than you thunk!

Teretxu
04-03-2007, 03:51 AM
Birte has expressed it perfectly. The Catholic Church is desperately in need of "miracles" in these times of empty churches and growing scandals, they are losing too much power worldwide because of their refusal to see the signs of the times, and their aloofness to the situation of the poor, so all they can come up with is the beatification of John Paul II. Julius Caesar gave the Romans Bread and Circus (Panem et Circenses), the Vatican gives us new saints.
Having said this, I must also add that I really liked Pope John Paul II and that he'll make just as good a Saint as anybody. :)

burckle
04-03-2007, 12:34 PM
Hi

Here I've gone and posed a question but failed to tell you what I think. First, I should say that I.m an atheist but I find them boring and generally try to avoid them. I don't know why I'm telling you this except you may find it a good time to hit the delete button. Secondly, I was raised in the Catholic Church, was an alter boy, memorized my Latin, attended Catholic schools for ten years and in eight years of grade school attended mass six days a week. My (Catholic) high school is the only one to which I will give money. Thirdly, I think the Devil's Advocate will be very tough. The Catholic Church doesn't want to embarrass itself by promoting an undeserving soul to sainthood. They have had that experience in the past. Over 1,000 years ago one man was killed in a drunken brawl and raised to sainthood. Some time back the church revised its list of saints and removed the names of those who were not deserving.

Fourthly, I don't think a miracle occurred.

I don't know how the Devil's Advocate will approach this miracle but my hunch is that he will focus on the diagnosis. I was diagnosed on my first visit but, I know, others have gone through several years of indecision before a final diagnosis was made. Still, if the Devil's Advocate does not find any compelling reasons to rule out a miracle, he will have to call it a miracle, even though none had occurred. Such is the vagaries of medicine

All the best

Lloyd

lou_lou
04-03-2007, 01:10 PM
there are many things about being taught in Catholic school,that has a life long effect on people - and not always for the best...
George Carlin was Catholic can't you tell.
I will say - it gave me alot of doubts, but I am more the researcher type,
I had a very hard time believing most of the "Saint stuff" -
the novena to Saint Teresa, were it stated verbatim she will pick you a rose from her heavenly garden and you will receive it, in so many hours days etc.?
????????

I enjoy history, but history is dependant on good historians -
and for instance - I found out that US President George Washington, more than likely -never chopped down a cherry tree! never threw a dollar across the Potomac! all cultures have there fables mixed in with a touch of possible truth.
I have been to George Washington's home "Mount Vernon" - saw that he had slaves, and that they were his children. He was a very rich man, and the plantation was beautiful.
There are very tall glorious old magnolia trees there, that scent the air with perfume, and there were CIA's people amongst the crowd and on the cameras upstairs on the third floor that they told us, was not in good enough shape to hold the crowd. :p

I saw a picture of Mr. George's false teeth and they were not made of wood.
they were plated in a toxic metal form -to rest on his gums, and it had slaves teeth, and animal teeth in it.
I now realize why he never smiled! :eek:

I do have a personal Faith in God,
but not the Catholic Way...
a more humble loving approach, not so much pomp and circumstancy!
I do not like when ministers yell at there congragations like "bad children"
when they are only human too.

some people are afraid that science will disprove there is a GOD,
but I am not worried -because I really think it will prove -there is...

peace to your heart Lloyd and thank you for starting this thread.
:Thanx:

Daffy Duck
04-03-2007, 01:28 PM
I received a series of e-mails about this last night. It was suggested that instead of idiopathic Parkinson's Disease, that she has a form of Parkinsonism called Cerebellar Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (CTOS).

In CTOS there is chronic hypoxia due to the pressure of certain muscles - usually around the neck. When the chronic hypoxia affects the basal ganglia in putamen, a decrease in the dopamine production takes place, causing symptoms of Parkinson's disease.

Accompanying the e-mails, and consistent with this, were magnified photographs of the nun's head and neck, showing that she had hypertrophied (bulging) Sterno-cleido-mastoid muscle on the left hand side of the neck.

This coincides with her own reports of the symptoms being on her left hand side, the same side as the hypertrophied muscles.

It was suggested that if she did not do something permanently to the Sterno-cleido-mastoid muscle and the other neck muscles involved, that the symptoms would return.

burckle
04-03-2007, 03:15 PM
Mr. Duck:

I want to thank you for your input. This site loses its value if there is no one with your knowledge monitoring our posts.

All the best,


Lloyd