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View Full Version : Sharply demarcated and grooves in nails proof of RSD?




InHisHands
07-03-2007, 09:08 AM
If the edema is sharply demarcated on the surface of the skin along a line, it is almost proof that the patient has RSD/CRPS.
True or False?? Anyone else also deal with this?? A lot of times the swelling/ color changes are sharply demarcated on the surface of my skin... proof that I have RSD?

If the edema is sharply demarcated on the surface of the skin along a line, it is almost proof that the patient has RSD/CRPS. However, some patients will show a sharply demarcated edema because they tie a band around the extremity for comfort. Therefore, one has to be certain that the sharply demarcated edema is not due to a previously wrapped bandage around the extremity.

http://nationalsportssymposium2007.com/orthoteers/Orthcrps.htm

Here is a pic of my toes (it doesn't show well, it gets worse at times... my foot will be purple and about the last inch of my toes will be red):
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t177/InHisHandsRSD/RSD/DSC_0023.jpg


http://www.blingo.com/search?q=sharply+demarcated+RSD&sourceid=firefox&s=0&s=0

I have also developed grooves in my toe nails. Another proof? Anyone have ideas or know if this means definitely RSD?:confused: :confused:




RSDmom
07-03-2007, 09:25 AM
I don't know much about the proof, but I do know that my daughters second toe would be bright pink or white while the rest of her foot was purple, black, you name it. Sometimes, that was the only swollen part too--depending on the moment.

Sydney
07-03-2007, 11:20 AM
I also have the ridges or grooves in both toes and fingernails. However, I do not have swelling or color change.
When I was examined thoroughly by a top RSD specialist he noted that immediately and attributed it to an RSD diagnois. That was one of the criteria for RSD. He diagnosed me with full body RSD and I am on the wait list for IV Ketamine. Just thought I'd pass that info on to you.
Best wishes,
Sydney

mrsD
07-03-2007, 11:56 AM
Beau's lines.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20040315/1417.html

Beau's lines (Figure 1) are transverse depressions in the nail plate that often follow local trauma. They may reflect poor nutritional status, febrile illness, or a reaction to medication. Occasionally, they occur with eczema, usually atopic or chronic hand eczema. Beau's lines are a temporary cessation in nail growth and tend to appear about one month after the inciting event. Beau's lines tend to resolve spontaneously, by moving distally

from http://clevelandclinicmeded.com/diseasemanagement/dermatology/naildisease/naildisease.htm

Do you have these lines in your fingers too? If so I'd get checked for heavy metal poisoning. Arsenic is the most likely culprit, and can be accidently ingested these days (ground water from wells, playing on pressure treated wood, inhaling burning wood from pressure treated sources, some ceramic plates, etc).

betsyherm
07-03-2007, 12:35 PM
Hey Ness and everyone,

So once again, the "sharply demarcated" edema and nail grooves are two symptoms of RSD that have to be seen as part of a whole picture. Having or not having those two signs (or not having them) does not rule RSD in or out. So it's just like everything else, unfortunately. I know I definitely wish there was something that proved or disproved the diagnosis! Unfortunately, all this stuff can be caused by a few different conditions. It's only when you put the big picture together that it's seen to be RSD.

For those with full-body RSD, I believe that the sharply demarcated edema does not apply. It refers to an abrupt end to swelling where the rest of the symptoms also end. It often occurs with ligature marks (looks like a string has been tightened around the area). I get all of that at times, but I believe it's from my sock, actually. It doesn't occur on my good leg though. After I take off my socks at night, often have a deep groove around my RSD leg for hours, whereas the light depressions on the other side fade within a few minutes.

As for the beau's lines, they're REALLY ugly. I had them bilaterally, and it took a year or so for them to grow out. Sorry I don't have a picture of it...I kind of didn't want anyone to ever see it. It looked really disgusting!

Other nail problems can occur with RSD too, not just ridges and beau's lines (two slightly different things...ridges are like weird bumps on the nail and beau's lines are straight marks where the nail stopped growing---it's like one side of the mark is much thicker than the other). Nails can be soft or thickened. I notice that on my RSD side, my nails are thicker but crumble easily. Makes it really hard to clip them...I never end up with a smooth line.

Hope this helps a little!
-Betsy

InHisHands
07-03-2007, 03:04 PM
It often occurs with ligature marks (looks like a string has been tightened around the area). I get all of that at times, but I believe it's from my sock, actually. It doesn't occur on my good leg though. After I take off my socks at night, often have a deep groove around my RSD leg for hours, whereas the light depressions on the other side fade within a few minutes.

I get this too- with both legs. :eek:

Sandel
07-03-2007, 03:26 PM
Hello and happy birthday IHH.

I too have the groves on my toenails and a lovely color pattern very similar to yours by the way, but I noticed you talking about "sharply demarcated edema" then showing a picture of yr fasionably purple foot which is what I personaly like to think of as the rainbow effect (color change lines) not shure what thats called though its not edema.

Edema is the swelling that you get in the RSD area, "demarcated" is an obvious end to the swelling, or defined line where the swelling stops and so called "normal" skin begins (if me memory serves me right).

I get/got what was is called "Brawny Edema" and that is an area of swelling from above my right knee (in a 'rounded sharply demarcated' curve) and down my calf and into my ankle and foot that I could press my fingers into and hold fer a few secs (yes hurts) an it leaves an indented hole :eek: that would show there for hours. I also have edema that is not "brawny" it does not leave an indent.

I learned it is better with all edema to ignore, elevate it, and not poke.. hurts to much an had a bump on my ankle from a pressure point I usta like to press (a spot in my ankle that eleviated some of the pain) but the next few times it swelled bad I got an "out-dent" from it that looked like the bump that Fred Flinstone gets from a bang on his head.:o

Sandel
07-03-2007, 03:44 PM
Hey Ness and everyone,
For those with full-body RSD, I believe that the sharply demarcated edema does not apply. It refers to an abrupt end to swelling where the rest of the symptoms also end. It often occurs with ligature marks (looks like a string has been tightened around the area). I get all of that at times, but I believe it's from my sock, actually. It doesn't occur on my good leg though. After I take off my socks at night, often have a deep groove around my RSD leg for hours, whereas the light depressions on the other side fade within a few minutes.
-Betsy

hello
I have that now too same with arms, face and torso, notice after sleep how long before the lines from sheets take to dissapear? I wonder if it is a form of a generalized brawny edema.. comes along with the generalized or full body RSD that I too have been diagnosed with as well.

hugs

betsyherm
07-03-2007, 04:10 PM
Yes, Sandel...I think you're correct in thinking that the marks are from edema. I only have RSD in my left leg, a little more than halfway between my ankle and knee (think mid-shin), so the marks are always on my left leg. I don't get them on my right (perfectly normal) leg...just the creases for 10-15 minutes after taking off socks. I assume it's because the elastic band on the top of a sock holds the edema down in that spot, making everything below it swell more.

-Betsy

Sandel
07-05-2007, 02:23 AM
For those with full-body RSD, I believe that the sharply demarcated edema does not apply. It refers to an abrupt end to swelling where the rest of the symptoms also end. -Betsy

The rest of my symptoms didn't end where the brawny edema did I am afraid:(


:grouphug:

InHisHands
07-05-2007, 05:47 AM
Hello and happy birthday IHH.

I too have the groves on my toenails and a lovely color pattern very similar to yours by the way, but I noticed you talking about "sharply demarcated edema" then showing a picture of yr fasionably purple foot which is what I personaly like to think of as the rainbow effect (color change lines) not shure what thats called though its not edema.

Edema is the swelling that you get in the RSD area, "demarcated" is an obvious end to the swelling, or defined line where the swelling stops and so called "normal" skin begins (if me memory serves me right).

Doh... on my part!! I should've thought deeper between the edema and COLOR CHANGES! I guess I was seeing sharply demarcated lines in my color changing feet. :rolleyes:

Mrsd, thanks for the reply. I am checking into what is in our water (metal wise) so that's a thought; though if I have RSD grooves in my nails are no surprise. It's typical for that to happen from all the disruptions from normal activity in the body after getting RSD.

Thanks for all the help you've been everyone!! :grouphug:

Thanks for the sweet birthday wishes too, Sandra! :heartthrob:

dreambeliever128
07-05-2007, 06:54 AM
I have the ridged toenails but not the fingernails. My fingernails won't grow and I can't wear fake nails and polish won't stay on them either.

I have noticed the dent in my leg when I wear stocking knee highs. I wondered why they were so deep and won't go away very quick.

I only have the swelling now after walks or in hot weather. I believe the blocks helped me with all of that. My right hand is always the coldest also because the RSD is worse in it and also my right foot is worse.

Your foot looks really bad, IHH. I have never delt with it that bad. My hand turns different colors as I said when I walk and swing it or if I use it the wrong way.

My fingers on my right hand are wasting away also. They are a lot smaller then on my left hand.

I honestly believe the blocks saved me from far worse problems and calmed a lot down. I was lucky with getting the help I needed quick enough to help me. Also the TPI's did a lot for me too.

I sure hope you get that calmed down to where you are doing much better.

Ada

davesgurl
07-19-2009, 08:38 PM
I also have the ridges or grooves in both toes and fingernails. However, I do not have swelling or color change.
When I was examined thoroughly by a top RSD specialist he noted that immediately and attributed it to an RSD diagnois. That was one of the criteria for RSD. He diagnosed me with full body RSD and I am on the wait list for IV Ketamine. Just thought I'd pass that info on to you.
Best wishes,
Sydney

i am new to this but lets go. i was injured 6 years ago and 2 years later diagnosed with rsd. its work comp so doc arent the greatest. you went to speacialist in field. rsd has only been classed in l leg and begining r leg but i hurt so much more and so bad. could you pklease tell me more about full body rsd .never heard about this before and other symptoms i have are being not being heard or answered. if you could answer these things would appreciate. i feel so lost , alone and misunderstood
my name is lisa thanks

bobber
07-19-2009, 10:37 PM
Ive got 3 grooved nailes,,one on each hand and one on my big toe,,ive exhausteed myslf looking on line,,but it can be a rsd symptom along with umpteen others including trauma,,google it and let us know what you find,,bobber