10-04-2006, 11:51 AM
10-04-2006, 10:55 PM
It's difficult to explain in words really but you seem to be setting this cut-off point to friendship or the term friend.
I agree with you that there SHOULD NOT be a cutoff point. But I inserted the word SHOULD for a reason because not everything the way they SHOULD be. I have learned that OTHER PEOPLE (not me) set up a cutoff point, and I don't agree with that. In fact I found it offensive. So, since the concept of cut off point exists in OHTER PEOPLE"S head (NOT MINE) and I find a concept offensive, I want to do anything and everything in order not to be in a "loser" category of that concept.
The way I learned about the concept is when I met a girl named Anne. She was more close to me than any of my girlfriends ever were but when I emailed her asking for a relationship she said she wants to be friends. The only way to explain it is to say that girlfriend verses friend is a title as opposed to specific things that people do. She simply weren't willing to "give me a credit" by calling me a boyfriend.
This goes hand in hand with a reason that she provided -- namely she wants someone more confident for a "boyfriend". So how does confidence have to do with how much she is in love with someone? Pretty little. BUT it has A LOT to do with how much you want to GIVE CREDIT for that person. After all why call a "chess champion" someone who can't even play chess?
So, the lesson i have learned from Anne is that being a boyfriend is about a TITLE. So, if the word "boyfriend" implies a title, then the logic says that the word "friend" implies a refusal to give a title, in other words, it should be humiliating to be referred to as "friend". So, naturally, I find it offensive. No one wants to be humiliated.
I think you have concentrated too much on why she said she wouldn't make the first phone call.
I think you confused two different things. When she asked me to make first call it was fine with me. I simply made one and everything was great. The thing about phone call that I am upset about is what she said TWO DAYS AFTER we started chatting by phone. Namely, that she wants me to only call her on weekends because she was busy. And, if you compare it to her original email, you will see that in original email she never asked me to only call her on weekends. She simply informed me of possible reasons why she might not answer the phone. So what I read between the lines is that I turned her off during the time when we did talk on a phone. And, in fact, it is easy to see how. Namely there were a lot of times when we were both silent since I had hard time of thinking of ideas of what to talk about, which is part of my Asperger. Also, if you read her response where she used the word "friend" she acknowledged herself that she didn't like that we were quiet so often.
"Oh and I have this weird thing about me too--I never make the first phone call. I don't know why, that's just one of the things that makes me me. I have school during the day M-Th and work random schedule so if you don't
reach me that's why. "
My reading of that seemed to indicate she was a busy girl. It also indicated to me that she felt more comfortable if "the other person" made the first phone call to her. I wouldn't read too much more into that.
I'm dreadful with the phone. I've always enormous difficulty phoning people. Always prefer if someone phones me and even then I'm not sure I'll answer. I'm sure I'm not alone in those feelings.
I AGREE. But once again you confused the two different times. What you were quoting above refers to the time BEFORE we talked on the phone so that was great. On the other hand, her email with the word "friend" in it was sent AFTER we talked on a phone, and the talking on a phone is when I had most apportunity to turn her off since I was never able to think of what to talk about.
I think you're over analyzing it all again, or still. In doing that you're losing touch with why you want contact with her in the first place.
I DO know why I want contact with her on a first place. In particular, I want self-validation that is defined by being refered to as "boyfriend". I fully agree that this reason is "unusual". And this is why I have to ask "unusual" questions WITHOUT losing touch with my "unusual" reason of why I want a relationship.
Okay, it is going to sound very sarcastic, but this is true. So please take it at a face value: I feel very humiliated that no one is willing to give me a title of a "boyfriend" (especially a girl named Anne a year ago) and so I want someone to give one to me. After all, what is a point of going for a movie for example? There are thousands of movies around, so why would it be so amaising if I will happen to watch one movie out of thousands and thousands? And what is the point of doing something fun? Whatever I would be doing is only going to last few hours, and then few days down the road I won't even remember it. On the other hand, if I have a title, it stays with me. And that is what is so wonderful about it.
The title can also DEFINE what I am suppose to feel. Let me put it this way. If I simply do something fun, what if I happen to have bad day and for that reason it won't be fun for me? For instance, what if my stressful situation in school will keep me self consciuos of how many hours I keep wasting that COULD be used for school? On the other hand, if I have a tilte, it is totally independant of school or any other stressors I might be feeling. Title is there no matter what. In fact, isn't the whole purpose of school itself to get a "title" of Ph.d.? So, as much as I might be aware of how doing something fun might stay in a way of a "title" of Ph.D. I would be equally aware that it helps me EARN a title of a "boyfriend". But once the title of a "boyfriend" is gone, then the whole point of doing something "fun" is gone together with it.
And, speaking of school, I can simply quote what I used to be saying up untill I was 21 that human interaction is just "waste of time valuable for studies" and isn't worth it. Now what have changed since then? Did I start to feel more attached to people? No. QUite teh opposite actually. I remember I had a crush at a girl when I was 14 that lasted a year, and I totally ignored it in favor of studies. On the other hand, as for the time between I was around 20 and right now, I can't honestly say I was ever attracted or attached to anyone, which would include all of my girlfriends that I had. So how come I was capable of ignoring the CRUSH that I had at 14 and AT THE SAME TIME invest SO MUCH on people I don't even feel attracted to? Well the answer is that at 21 I had an apportunity to learn that when I am alone it isn't a simple fact of my being alone but rather it is that others DON"T LIKE me and thus want me to be alone. So I started to rebel against it.
Yes friends typically mean LJBF - friends can mean a lot of different things
I have seen on some websites they explain that "friends" is a "dreaded F word". Whenever the word "friends" is used it always mean LJBF. In fact, one website went as far as saying htat in conversation with women you shouldn't be referring to your female friends as "friends" because this would only encourage her to LJBF you as well.
Friends is only bad once you are already in a relationship - No, that's not so.
The word friends is only bad for SOME women; they aren't her - Friends is not a bad word.
Okay, I probably misspoke in that I didn't mean BAD but rather I meant "package deal". The package consist of two things:
a)The two being very close
b)The two agreeing NOT to date in future
Part b is "bad" so when I said "bad" I really meant that part b is part of a "package" even if all the other parts of a package are "good".
Yes she lost interest and LJBF-ed you - How about you leave out the Let's Just part. Try ... BF-ed BeFriend-ed
She LJBF-ed you in order to release your tension - There's that Let's Just part again.
I didn't invent LJBF expression. I simply learned it through google searches. So OTHER PEOPLE are the ones who invented it, NOT ME. In fact this is WHY I am so offended by it. If it was me inventing it, I won't be offended at myself would I. Thats precisely the point. I DON"T UNDERSTND why other people use the word friend as a package with something NEGATIVE in it? But they do. Hence I am offended.
She LJBF-ed you TENATIVELY, so it can be changed - You can talk to her, meet her, go see a movie, go to the zoo, anything you can think of. You can see how your relationship develops.
But I would like to know it ahead of time.
Also, if I am right that she has already decided not to date me despite knowing so little about me, then continuing communication with her would amount to self-humiliation. After all if I will be talking to her, and the subject of conversation will be anything OTHER THAN LJBF business, this would imply that I agreed with the LJBF thing since I changed the topic. It would be pretty humiliating to be agreeing with soemthing I don't understand and even find offensive. So, the only two ways of NOT agreeing with it is (1)talk to her about it indefinitely (2)simply disappear from her life
I'm wondering what the word Relationship means to you? Is that the same to you as Friend?
That is the whole point. Looking at the example of Anne I don't see ANY difference between friend and relaitonship. Anne was more close to me than most of my girlfriends. So the only way to "fill in a gap" is to say that "relationship" is about giving me a TITLE. And that is precisely what drives my obsession with the word.
Roman, she gave her number. She asked that you phone first. She seemed happy enough to have you call her. That looked pretty straightforward to me.
First of all this happend BEFORE we talked on the phone; on the other hand LJBF happened AFTER we did. Since I blame myself for not having much to say WHILE ON THE PHONE, what happened before that verses after that are two different stories altogether.
Secondly, even if it is true that she is happy to talk to me, this will only reinforce the reason of why I feel humiliated. Suppose she hated me. In this case, the reason why she doesn't want a relationship is obvious. So I don't have to fill in a gap to say that she "didn't give me credit". On the other hand, the fact that she likes me implies that there has to be SOMETHING ELSE that makes her not want to call me "boyfriend" hence this causes me to contemplate about the whole "title" business.
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