fish oil

[lahgarden]

Hello,

I wonder which Omega oil is best.

My oldest DD is studying Nutriton.
I keep telling her to hurry up!! (ha Ha)

Any way, she said that
Omega 3 is different from Omega 6

they have an affect on the clotting factor in different ways.
That doesn't seem to be taken lightly.

Today my DH emailed me a NYTimes article.
Seems in Europe it is standard protocol to give Omega 3 to heart attack
patients.........although it doesn't happen here.

Which is best for neuro problems?
thank you so much.
Have a great day.
Laura

[mrsD]

is what you need to consider. Omega-6's are very plentiful in the diet, and the typical American does not need to supplement these (unless they have a
genetic disorder, or are anorexic).

You can get similar benefits from Flax oil taken with evening primrose oil..
since these are converted into the long chain fatty acids that fish oil provides.

Fish oil is mildly thinning to the blood. It is not exactly a blood thinner per se.
If you take Coumadin(warfarin) or are having surgery, then physician supervision is needed.

It is the RATIO of omega-3 to omega-6 that is important. Too many omega-6's are proinflammatory, and stimulate thromboxane, which activates platelets, which promote clotting.

[Buttons]

I have a whole bottle of Triple Omega 3-6-9, I CANNOT get these horse pills down & they taste awful.

I'm now eating flax granola that has 400mg. omega 3, when I don't eat this I eat brown eggs with 350mg per egg of omega 3. Should I figure this is sufficient??

I've also used flax flakes on salads,etc. in the past,I don't mind the taste, it's the fish oil I can't stand!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!

Take care,Buttons

[mrsD]

There are new double strength enteric coated (no taste) generic
fish oils now available at both Costco and Sam's club.

Fisol is a brand you can find online (but would cost more).
The trend today is to have the enteric coating so it does not dissolve until
the cap hits the intestines.

example:
http://www.evitamins.com/product.asp?pid=4210

The Costco and Sam's club prices are a little more than 1/2 of the Fisol, and the Fisols are not double strength.

I get alot of my omega-3s from food now. If you need really high doses for some issue (doctor recommended etc) then taking caps is the only way.
But Smart Balance makes a flax oil peanut butter now which is very good.--I started using this product this summer.
And I use the Omega-3 eggs also.
There is Smart Balance spread too. So many can just get them this way, unless high doses are necessary (for anti-inflammatory effects).
I also found a gluten free bread with flax... times sure are a changin' ! :p

[lahgarden]

Hi MrsD,
thank you so much for the information.

I have been pouring flax seed on my food all summer, good to know. Omega Eggs I will look for too now.

Here's another question.
I took Evening of Primrose Oil for three months and found great relief by the third month for monthly breast pain.......but not for spasticity.

When I revealed this to my internist, he automatically said "go off it." He seems to fear mixing these herbs/vitamins with anything, including life in general.

Any insight as to why? Do you think that after the three months I would have had better results as far as the spasticity pain?

thanks for listening.
laura

[Buttons]

Mrs. D. we probably eat the same bread from Costco, I also like the Squirrell bread-no flour either.

I just discovered the flax granola,it's also from Costco.

[mrsD]

a fellow Costco-ite! LOL

I started at Costco years ago because they offered the NatureMade SAMe I used at rock bottom prices (at least I could afford it then). The money I saved in 2 months on just that purchase paid my membership! From 1.25/tab(retail) to .30/tab.(Costco)

It is so wonderful to see these items available there now. We get alot of things from them, and I like the NatureMade brand they carry too.
I bought my new digital camera there this past May. I've bought software,
printers, and lots of other stuff.

I just saw the double strength enteric coated fish oil, recently at Costco. Previously I was getting mine at Sam's club. Our Sam's here has a bigger food selection than Costco. But Sam's does not carry NatureMade. :confused:

[Bernard]

FYI, Most 3-6-9 formulations use Borage oil or Evening Primrose oil for the Omega 6 fatty acids and studies have shown them to reduce the seizure threshold.

Borage Oil, Evening Primrose = GLA/Omega 6 fatty acid (http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=207)

[Chemar]

Although my son can eat all fish and other seafood, yet he has a major increase in his Tourette tics if he has fishoil supplements. He can take flaxseed oil with no probs

the reactivity to fishoil with increased tics has been reported by many others on Latitudes and elsewhere

I am really curious as to why tho? I could understand if there was an overall allergy to fish, but this is not the case. And no other reaction is seen to the fish oil other than a big increase in tics:confused:

[mrsD]

It is very interesting!

Here is a copy of the Mayo website on EPO...
Side Effects and Warnings

Several reports describe seizures in individuals taking evening primrose oil (EPO). Some of these seizures developed in people with a previous seizure disorder, or in individuals taking EPO in combination with anesthetics. Based on these reports, people with seizure disorders should not take EPO. EPO should be used cautiously with drugs used to treat mental illness such as chlorpromazine (Thorazine®), thioridazine (Mellaril®), trifluoperazine (Stelazine®), or fluphenazine (Prolixin®), due to an increased risk of seizure. Patients who plan to undergo surgery requiring anesthesia should stop taking EPO two weeks ahead of time because of the possibility of seizure.

Other reports describe occasional headache, abdominal pain, nausea, and loose stools in people taking EPO. In animal studies, gamma-linolenic acid (an ingredient of evening primrose oil) is reported to decrease blood pressure. Early results in human studies do not show consistent changes in blood pressure.
from http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/evening-primrose-oil/NS_patient-Primrose

I searched this subject on 2 occasions in the past and found one paper using the abbreviation GLA seizures...but the GLA was a toxin..not from evening primrose oil. I can't find it today on PubMed since they reorganized the site.
But a meta-analysis in the past would have tagged that paper.

The warning about GLA involves people who already have a seizure disorder, or who take antipsychotic drugs. The incidents of seizure were very few.
At the typical intake to supplement food, for a normal person, I don't see an issue. But many people take GRAMs of EPO...and when increasing to that
amount, yes, caution is a good idea. Also from the standpoint that one is skewing normal EFA metabolism and may overload certain chemical systems.

Fish oil is basically anti-inflammatory. Also fish oil does affect neurotransmitter functions, supposedly by improving cellular membrane fluidity and hence enhances neurotransmitter effects. This is the postulated theory for why fish oil helps with depression. But I wonder if enhancing neurotransmitter status, it is stimulating dopamine receptor function for TS patients..hence the tics?

People really have genetic variability in handling fatty acids. Males for example are low in conversion to EPA and DHA in vivo compared to females (who carry fetuses who depend on DHA for brain growth). Males therefore, possibly handle fish oil differently, since their needs are less. So this too may change the response a male has to high dose fish oil compared to a female.

Fatty acid chemistry is really complex... so it is difficult to generalize for each person. Dietary use, is easier to handle. When you get into the higher doses, these variabilities become more obvious.

This is the Miller 1998 paper often cited:
Arch Intern Med. 1998 Nov 9;158(20):2200-11.Click here to read Links

Comment in:
Arch Intern Med. 1999 May 24;159(10):1142-3.
Arch Intern Med. 1999 Sep 13;159(16):1957-8.

Herbal medicinals: selected clinical considerations focusing on known or potential drug-herb interactions.

* Miller LG.

Department of Pharmacy Practice, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center, Amarillo 79121, USA.

Herbal medicinals are being used by an increasing number of patients who typically do not advise their

clinicians of concomitant use. Known or potential drug-herb interactions exist and should be screened for. If used

beyond 8 weeks, Echinacea could cause hepatotoxicity and therefore should not be used with other known hepatoxic

drugs, such as anabolic steroids, amiodarone, methotrexate, and ketoconazole. However, Echinacea lacks the 1,2

saturated necrine ring associated with hepatoxicity of pyrrolizidine alkaloids. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs

may negate the usefulness of feverfew in the treatment of migraine headaches. Feverfew, garlic, Ginkgo, ginger, and

ginseng may alter bleeding time and should not be used concomitantly with warfarin sodium. Additionally, ginseng may

cause headache, tremulousness, and manic episodes in patients treated with phenelzine sulfate. Ginseng should also

not be used with estrogens or corticosteroids because of possible additive effects. Since the mechanism of action of

St John wort is uncertain, concomitant use with monoamine oxidase inhibitors and selective serotonin reuptake

inhibitors is ill advised. Valerian should not be used concomitantly with barbiturates because excessive sedation

may occur. Kyushin, licorice, plantain, uzara root, hawthorn, and ginseng may interfere with either digoxin

pharmacodynamically or with digoxin monitoring. Evening primrose oil and borage should not be used with

anticonvulsants because they may lower the seizure threshold. Shankapulshpi, an Ayurvedic preparation, may decrease

phenytoin levels as well as diminish drug efficacy. Kava when used with alprazolam has resulted in coma.

Immunostimulants (eg, Echinacea and zinc) should not be given with immunosuppressants (eg, corticosteroids and

cyclosporine). Tannic acids present in some herbs (eg, St John wort and saw palmetto) may inhibit the absorption of

iron. Kelp as a source of iodine may interfere with thyroid replacement therapies. Licorice can offset the

pharmacological effect of spironolactone. Numerous herbs (eg, karela and ginseng) may affect blood glucose levels

and should not be used in patients with diabetes mellitus.

PMID: 9818800 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Related Links

[kim123]

Chemar,

Did you see this study at latatudes?

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr...+to+d2+receptor

Chalon and coworkers increased the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 PUFA by using fish oil plus palm oil in the diet (50). This resulted in increased dopamine receptors as well as
increased dopamine levels in the cerebral cortex. By contrast, however, this dietary strategy also decreased both ambulatory activity and dopamine binding in the striatum.

[mrsD]

The link does not work, Kim.

CAn you fix that? Please?

[Sydney]

My naturopathic Dr. recommended Blue Ice Cod Liver Oil. I ordered it from Green Pasteur.org or .com. Not sure. He seems knowledgeable and follows the different products and their components. I tried the pills and can't swallow them.
I have high cholesterol - 380 -450 or so. He thinks this is a good idea to use this. I also have a terrible diet - can't chew. Depressed a lot due to chronic pain and just don't eat well.
I don't get out much. I'll have my husband check for the omega 3 eggs. Maybe I should try the primrose oil for pain. (RSD and FM)I do have some flax seed - I should try it. Wish we had a Cosco nearby. Sounds like they have good products.
Sydney

[mrsD]

When you use cod liver oil, you are getting Vits A and D, with only "some"
EFAs. YOu cannot safely increase doses to get more EFAs with this, because
vits A and D are toxic if used in high doses. So if your goal is Vit D..then cod liver oil is a good source.

If your goal is to increase EPA and DHA from fish oil, then this is not a good
choice. Fish body oils are what are used for this purpose. Cod liver oil comes from the LIVER of the fish...and is different.

So since you are being supervised, please keep this in consideration.

Please keep us advised as to your progress!

[kim123]

Whoops

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=cache:gmqTTLUCKvQJ:www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2003/april/haag.asp+fish+oil+inhibits+dopamine+binding+to+d2+ receptor

[mrsD]

Looks like later in the month, I will be starting my EFA thread over here.
(it is lost in the old database).

This article is just fabulous. Explains things very well!
It even has a great flow chart!
Thanks so much for posting it here! :D

[Chemar]

hiya Kim :) good to see you here!

yes, that article is excellent. I am still puzzled tho by my son's reaction to fishoil as we always gave it in a combo blend with fish/flax/borage/evening primrose........guess maybe the ratios were off????

we are in the position now tho where we have been told to ONLY give the flaxseed oil and avoid supplementing with additional Omega 6 or 9 as the latter increase the inflammatory response via the prostaglandin system, and, because of his Crohn's, we need to keep inflammation down, which the Omega 3 does

[mrsD]

Today as always, we should also consider the intake of trans fats in our
food choices. This is very important to proper EFA omega-3 use.

It doesn't do much to take a supplement if you are eating these dangerous
transfats.

Here is a great article from our Health News forum:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061030/ap_on_he_me/diet_trans_fat_ban

So don't forget to consider these, when supplementing the good fats!

[mrsD]

I am gathering some data for an EFA thread soon to come.

I found this interesting article that explains in more understandable (less chemical) language how the various essential fatty acids are used, and
metabolized to other long chain molecules in the body:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/343S

This is such a difficult concept to understand...so each time I find another
article, I hope it will be helpful.

This article focuses on inflammatory issues, so Chemar, you might find it helpful.