Off topic - Rugby World Cup (warning gloating content) ...

[aftermathman]

first it was the turn of England, the reigning world champions, playing the Aussies, (for you guys in the US, "world" in this case means other countries not like the NFL "world champions" Indianapolis who beat Chicago :) ). The Australians were hammered by the mighty manhood and forward power of England and simply had no answer. They are on the long plane ride home, England advance but is it to meet France or New Zealand.

The mighty NZ All Blacks have looked invincible crushing all before them so far, however they are up against the French, the most enigmatic team in world Rugby. Disaster for Howardh, his boys are found wanting and join Aus on the long plane ride home, bad luck boys.

To paraphrase a famous Norwegian commentator when Norway beat England at soccer:

Rupert Murdoch, Kerry Packer, Cate Blanchett, Russell Crowe, Rachel Hunter, the Australian guy who invented the rotary washing line, Kylie Minogue ...

your boys took one hell of a beating here tonight.

Who'd have believed it.

Neil.

[Howardh]

mighty All Blacks have fallen at the final hurdle.....yet again to the murcurial French. The game changed for us when McCallister was sin binned fifteen minutes into the second half. We can argue all day if that was neccessary, but at the end of the day the French lifted and we did not.

England dicked the Aussies in the forwards full stop and deserved their shock quarter final win. The semi final next week between France and England will be a rip snorter. I'm not pickin it, but the winner will win the Rugby World Cup.

Congrates Niel your boys played brilliantly.

GO HARD SCIENCE

[aftermathman]

your boys set the benchmark in world rugby. The winning of the world cup is becoming an albatros round All Black's necks. It remains a mystery to me why NZ cannot win the cup with all that talent.

Take care mate,
Neil.

p.s. In case you are wondering the Norwegian quote I "lifted" in my post went:

'Lord Nelson! Lord Beaverbrook! Sir Winston Churchill! Sir Anthony Eden! Clement Attlee! Henry Cooper! Lady Diana! Maggie Thatcher - can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!'

(Said by Bjorge Lillelien on Norwegian TV when Norway beat England 2-1 in Oslo in a World Cup qualifier in Sept 1981).

It was voted best piece of commentary ever in the UK.

[K.Ibsen]

So, from someone here in the U.S... Is rugby some sort of sport?

Excuse me while I get psyched for this weekend's matchup of superbowl 40 of the Seattle Seahawks and the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Go Seahawks!

[made it up]

LOL... There are places in this world that are not part of the USA, can you believe it??
Sorry, was it the kiwis or poms that won? I wasn't paying attention.
Well that's not completely true Australia didn't win I know that much!
BTW Russell Crowe isn't really one of us (he was born in N.Z.)
Cheers,
Lee

[Howardh]

is also New Zealand born and bred. Discovered on Takapuna Beach as a 15 year old and became one of the worlds leading super models. Brought up and educated in Glenfield on Auckland's North Shore. Married Rod Stewart at 20 (he was about 105) The rest is history. Russell Crowe is also a New Zealander but has lived across the ditch in Aussie land for a long time. Brought the South Sydney Rabbitohs (a top Aussie rugby league team that plays in the NRL.) two years ago.

Goooooooo the Steelers:D


GO HARD SCIENCE

Watch out for some ground breaking news from Craig Venter over the coming days and weeks.

[aftermathman]

So, from someone here in the U.S... Is rugby some sort of sport?

Excuse me while I get psyched for this weekend's matchup of superbowl 40 of the Seattle Seahawks and the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Go Seahawks!

Funnily enough you were in the Rugby world cup too, (I wasn't going to mention it but you lost to England as well and have been knocked out).

You did have one moment of fame when your winger, Takudzwa Ngwenya, outran the (assumed) fastest man in rugby, South Africa's Brian Habana. Habana infamously raced a Cheetah once, mind you I'd run bloody quickly if I had a Cheetah after me :) )

He still went home though, heck I need to enjoy this 15 minutes of glory before next weekend.

Having lived in Miami I have been a Dolfan since 1981, oh dear, they would do better in the world cup than the NFL.

Neil.
(Basking in glory).

http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2007/10/takudzwa-ngwenya-smokes-bryan-habana.html

"If you've been on another planet for the past few days you may not have heard of this guy. So let me introduce you to the young man the entire rugby world has been talking about - Takudzwa Ngwenya.

Otherwise known as Z, Ngwenya is the 22 year old Zimbabwean born flyer who, on Sunday night against the Springboks left Bok speedster Bryan Habana for dead, scoring a fantastic USA Eagles try that will live long in the memory as a World Cup classic.

Z not only finished off a length of the field break that started with Todd Clever's intercept, but he also did something that to my knowledge no other man has ever done on the international stage - he ran around Bryan Habana.

And since then, the phonecalls haven't stopped, with him already having been approached by two English clubs. A move to Europe looks on the cards for sure.

Radiologist Ngwenya is modest about the moment of the World Cup so far.

"I was thinking of kicking but then I thought I would try and get him to stop, and then gas him out wide," Ngwenya said. "And he did stop. It's not that I'm fast, I just got him to stop so that worked pretty well. I knew he would be annoyed. If I got beaten by a slower person, I'd be annoyed."

"He (Habana) is the best winger in the world," Ngwenya said. "I was intimidated every time he got the ball. If you look at the video or saw the game live, I was just yelling 'come on, come on'. I was intimidated. I didn't want to leave him one on one with me - and luckily I didn't."

Ngwenya describes the two speedsters' meeting after the match:
"He just said, 'Nice job', and 'Sorry about the bump'.

"Sorry about the bump" referring to the headclash that between them early in the second half.

All in all, a great match and nice to see the USA being so actively involved in the World Cup. For the first time they look to have a true rugby superstar, who scored a try that will not be forgotten any time soon and will hopefully raise the status of the odd balled game in the US".

[Suffolkchris]

Neil

But does one swallow make an Indian summer? Lets hope so.

It really is a case of that old boxing analogy "you are as good as your last fight"

And now the French in France, wouldn't it just be wonderful to be in the stadium to experience the game. Better than a double dose of Levodopa!!

Chris

[BEMM]

I have lived in the US for manymanymany years now, and Baseball still eludes me, I can't for the life of me figure it out. The players wear pyjamas with knee socks and spit sunflower seeds, they stand on mounds and someone comes and steals the bases, and the people in the stands are allowed to catch the balls and take them home to keep. Very peculiar game.
Now soccer I understand.........
My sincere apologies to all Baseball fans. Feel free to make fun of soccer - or of opera, I like opera too.

birte

[paula_w]

Bemm,

But what about the organ music? You don't like organ music? Hot dogs? Heat stroke? Big men on steroids?

paula

[indigogo]

K.Ibsen -

Seahawks took a beating today!

I say "Go Rockies!" (mixing rugby; football; baseball .....)

[jeanb]

Birte

LOVED your description of baseball!

Carey -- GO DIAMONDBACKS!!!!!!!!!!
:o

[aftermathman]

yes, for those Americans waiting with baited breath to see if the "old country" could do it and beat the French, in Paris, and make the final. Well we have done it and England are in the world cup final.

40,000 brits packed the stadium, tickets were sold for $2,500 and Jonny Wilkinson pulled another mighty drop goal out for us with 5 minutes left.

Napoleon Bonaparte, Joan of Arc, Michel Platini, Gustave Eiffel, Charles Aznavour, Andre the Giant ...

your boys took one hell of a beating here tonight.

Neil.

GO ENGLAND.

[Howardh]

one of the most heroic figures in all of history -- an enthusiastic illiterate, 17-year-old peasant girl: Joan of Arc. With a pure-and-unobstructed vision of freeing France from the conquering thieving English, she outflanked and then overcame every seemingly-insurmountable obstacle. She outflanked each in the French Hierachy who blocked her way toward commanding an army. Starting with the lowest-level local officials, she persuaded everyone up through the ranks, through the nobility and military, to the Dauphin himself -- the would-be King of France. Persuaded by her unflinching vision and charismatic power, the Dauphin granted Joan command of an outnumbered-and-demoralized French army to break the critical siege of Orléans. …Inspiring her troops into fervent frenzies, she broke that siege in 1429, driving back the overwhelmingly-superior English army in one of the most-unlikely military victories in history.

Her stunning victory at Orléans was followed by decisive victories in three subsequent battles. In each battle, her military strategy was impeccably-flawless and her use of artillery was uncannily-precise.

How were such military achievements possible by an illiterate peasant girl with zero experience or knowledge of military tactics and artillery physics? Her near-flawless strategy came from a precise military manouver that outflanked the all powerful english army who were impotant in their strategic thinking.

Joan was captured in 1430, imprisoned, and then put through a pseudo showcase, five-month trial by a fearfully-envious corrupt Catholic Church. The judges convicted her of heresy and sorcery. They then had her publicly burned alive in the marketplace at Rouen. …Joan defeated England, saved France, and had the Dauphin Charles VII crowned King when she was 18 years old. The authorities feared her power. Thus, the Church in collusion with both English and French politicians killed her when she was 19 years old.

Fast forward to 2007. The French needed a Joan of Arc to carry them to victory over the English. Sadly Joan had morphed into a Jonny Wilkinson and he carried the English to victory over the leaderless French. Fortunately Jonny will not be burnt in the market place at Rouen and will live to take on the South Africans next weekend in the final of the Rugby World cup at the Parc De France in PARIS.

Good luck Neil

GO HARD SCIENCE

[Chemar]

sooooo

what is a French named South African with English blood to do then..............

GO BOKS!!

:D

[Howardh]

with you Chemar. But keep this one quiet. Don't tell Neil.:D

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD BOKS

[paula_w]

I've heard no congratulations to Al Gore for his peace promoting? Unless I missed it? Blinked and missed?

Howard and Neil let's hear your worldly thoughts...a peacemaker he is rewarded as being. Condi Rice is trying to negotiate - coincidentally

Welcome to the Ununited ADDHD States of America

paula

where patience is for wimps and totally uncool

[Suffolkchris]

with you Chemar. But keep this one quiet. Don't tell Neil.:D

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD BOKS


Howard

Surely you would want to support a team that beat a team that beat The All Blacks - surely ???

Chris :)

[aftermathman]

"thieving English" Howard, and now you are supporting the southern hemisphere over England, for shame.

Despite our best attempts at making the world a better place, colonizing countries (e.g. America, and Australia), the glorious legacy of the British Empire, all we get is misunderstood. Who says the world wasn't a better place when the sun didn't set on the Queen's lands. How the world must regret turning against us, (especially at the Eurovision song contest where we can't buy a vote from the rest of Europe). Even George Dubya can't find "Londonland" without a map. (did I rant that out loud ? :) ).

But we're there, playing South Africa and I know the world (including you Howard, perhaps not you, Chemar), will warm to our plucky bulldog spirit.

Paula, as for Al Gore, IMHO there was general incredulity in the UK that a US politician was talking about climate change, as rightly or wrongly, Brits generally perceive there is little interest in the subject in the US. A UK High Court judge who ruled on whether climate change film, An Inconvenient Truth, could be shown in schools said it contains "nine scientific errors" however allowed it to through. The following quote from an English government minister sums up our position :

"Children's Minister Kevin Brennan said: "It is important to be clear that the central arguments put forward in An Inconvenient Truth, that climate change is mainly caused by man-made emissions of greenhouse gases and will have serious adverse consequences, are supported by the vast weight of scientific opinion".

My position is, good for Al Gore, he was well received over here and given our recent floods, (affecting Steffi, Evesham where I live and other major towns in the UK), we need strong and immediate action over climate change.

Boy, this thread is really off topic now.

Take care,
Neil.

[Howardh]

Bulldog spirit as epitomized by Phil Vickery and the giants in the forward pack have got to be the darlings of Fleet Street. (which should get Prince wotsisname off the front page for a day or two) To come from an absolute hammering by South Africa in the first game, and to be virtually out of the world cup unless you beat lowly rated Tonga in game two...... and now to be in the final, with every chance of winning the tournament has got to be the stuff that fairy tales are made of.

Words such as Magnifiquete (is that how the French spell it?) brilliant, staggering, do not describe the unbelievable performance of England. You guys have come from 4 years of losing rugby since the 03 world cup in Aussie, to now being on the brink of retaining the world cup.

I am very very disapointed guys...not because the All Blacks blew it but because I failed to smack five quid on England to retain their title pre world cup betting. The return on investment would have been enough to surpass Sir Richard Branson in the wealth stakes.

My money is still on Africa. The rumour is they are bringing their secret weapon over (if health permits) Nelson Mandela. Should be a cracker of a game

GO BOKS!!

Paula,

The jury is still out on Al Gore. The school of thought among many in this part of the world seems to be the fact much of what he says is junk science. And the fact...while he wants you and I and everybody else to become energy efficient while his left wing socialist cohorts slap trillions of dollars in energy taxs on us, his personal energy consumption continues to increase. The extravegant Gore household burns more electricity than most of Manhatten. His 64 cylinder 12 engine limo burns more fuel than what is produced in Venezuela. His leer jet sucks more fuel in a year than the consumption of energy of California.

When Gore puts his money where his mouth is and replaces his gas guzzling limo with a Lance Armstrong racing cycle, replaces his leer jet with tele conferences, and reduces his household consumption of energy down to null points then we may start taking him seriously. There is a brilliant rebuttal of Gore's global warming predicttion in todays Drudge Report. Check it out. Meanwhile I'm doin my bit to be energy efficient. I'm walking 100 metres to the shops these days instead of taking the car.:D

GO HARD SCIENCE

[paula_w]

A classic political move on Al's part - state a problem, blame it on current administration, stretch the truth, and don't practice what you preach.

A presentation made with tinges of hate and political motive, not peace, IMHO

paula

[BEMM]

This is a fairy tale, a parable, mention of the devil is not transferable to any person or organization, it is simply how the story tells it.

"One day, to entertain the little imps, the devil created a mirror in which everything and everybody looked crooked and silly and ugly. The little imps thought it was the most wonderful toy they had ever seen, and they laughed so hard that the mirror shattered, spewing splinters into the entire world. Many people got a little splinter from that mirror in their eyes, and everyone who did, could from that time on, see the flaw in everything they looked at. The beauty of roses was ruined for them, for they saw the flaw in every rose, they saw the flaw in everything good and right, for there are flaws in everything, and they could only see the flaws......... "

And so we see THEIR flaws, and THEY see our flaws.........and will we ever meet again, and see idealism and truth and all those old fashioned virtues as worthy and flawless again, will we be able to mend all we've broken....?

This is not politics, it's morals. I have moral indigestion.

[Ronhutton]

The Brits will know the song, I doubt (having lived there) if it is known in the US of A. It goes,
.............wider still and wider, shall your boundaries be,
God who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet,
We will soon have beaten the Boks, didn't we win the Boer war... (like many others)!!!
I'm with Aftermathman, how could anyone call us "thieving British".
After all we gave the world, bringing civilisation to most of it.....(uh uh trouble ahead). Think of our achievements,
How could a tiny island with (in those days) a population of about 40 million, preside over an empire of billions, nearly half the globe.
In WW2, most of Europe succumbed to the Natzi's in weeks, (Holland lasted 5 days), the UK lasted 5 years, (and won). Sure Uncle Sam helped but only after we had weathered the first 2 years.... Digging myself deeper here..LOL
Read the voyage of Captain Cook's epic journey round the world, until his death in New Zealand, ... Well, I suppose he lost...
Well, what about Captain Scott of the Antartic, Don't mention Global warming to him,...
We will win, we always have, it is the stiff upper lip.
Ron

[aftermathman]

with US politics, however this seems a pretty odd platform for an aspiring President to stand on if he is courting national favour.

Howard, saying Al Gore should give up all consumer products and live the ultimate green life is a bit like saying anyone who works for an African aid charity should not eat too much.

The US should be providing global leadership in this area. We all know America constitutes 4 per cent of the world's population, and yet it is responsible for a quarter of all carbon dioxide emissions - an average of 40,000 pounds of carbon dioxide is released by each US citizen every year - the highest of any country in the world, and more than China, India and Japan combined. It remains one of only two industrialised nations that has rejected the Kyoto Protocol and mandatory emissions cuts and European leaders who are pushing for a post-Kyoto treaty, has found President Bush has refused to participate. Rightly or wrongly the President appears to be polluter-friendly.

Against that backdrop I find Al Gore's contribution to be welcome. If it is politically motivated then he is learning climate change and more importantly the steps to reduce it, (like higher taxes), will never be a vote winner. At the very least he is engaging the US public in a debate which the present administration seemed hell bent on avoiding.

Moral debate, political debate, Steffi didn't care when her house flooded and neither did I when half Evesham was under water. I don't claim to know Al Gore's motives but at least he is talking about climate change and even getting the subject discussed in PD forums :)

Take care,
Neil.

GO ENGLAND.

[BEMM]

When I was a little girl growing up in Denmark, I thought Denmark was very large. It filled the whole map on the walls in our school rooms, and a whole page in my parents' atlas.
But I was not very old before I learned the proper size of my country compared to the rest of the globe. I often have the feeling that in the US. geography does not go beyond the maps on the school room walls. The maps show the USA from sea to shining sea. And it is very large. It is so large that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room on a globe for the rest of the world - the rest of the world has to be all scrunched together 'over there' somewhere. If you have that view of the world, what does the Kyoto treaty mean to you? What does it matter that we use so many of the world's resources?
Denmark is smaller than New Jersey. The British Isles are smaller than Madagascar. The US is smaller than China. I know Bush had never traveled outside the US until he became president. I wonder if anyone has thought to show him a globe yet. Oh well, it's too late now.
Al knows where what is, and that we have to husband the resources we share.

[paula_w]

The science concepts behind Al Gore's powerpoint presentation are worthy, whether man - made in origin or not.

It's the peace part that I fail to comprehend. I'll just add Israel to the list of tiny countries with self-survival ingenuity and wonder as I type this whether the US of A actually isn't a leader already in energy replacement and regulations.

Can't quite bring myself to sing Yankee Doodle Dandy tho as I'm built to weigh both sides of the same incompetent coin.

In the spirit of feistiness and with respect to the superiority of British tabloids (America is catching up tho watch out!), I wish all of you a smashingly good day. [Assuming smashingly is a good thing]

[aftermathman]

and preach to the rest of the world over this issue.

Northern Scandanavian countries seem the most switched on, we just talk about the weather a lot !!

I remember when I lived in Miami in the early 1980s, hurricane season was september - end october, now they seem to be arriving in July, and are stronger than ever.

To Paula and the rest of my US friends, "Have a nice day".

Take care,
Neil.

[indigogo]

I finally looked at this thread because I couldn't figure out why Paula was posting about rugby, but if she was there, then something interesting must be going on! (I'll follow Paula anywhere, anytime!)

I adore Al Gore; love his bold stance on climate change (a better, more descriptive term than "global warming"). Some voices have to be strong, powerful, famous, and one-sided to command the attention that begins to effect change (that's why people listen to Michael J Fox on stem cells and not the rest of us). Al Gore has the perfect platform from which to project - he can leave it to others to debate the details. We, as citizens of the planet, are lucky to have his voice at this time.

I think that is the justification for winning in the Peace category; Al Gore represents humanity. It will take a unified global population to do the right thing - better we are talking with each other rather than shooting.



P.S. ---------------- GO ROCKIES! --------------------

[Suffolkchris]

So we started in Paris and ended up in Kyoto via the USA!!!

I used to visit Kyoto on business but cannot recall them being big on Rugby??
Sumo wrestling yes, Rugby no.

Googled it just to be sure "Kyoto Rugby" - 92 results, "Kyoto Sumo" 295 results.
Mind you this proves nothing "Kyoto baseball" got 202 results !!!

Chris :)

[Howardh]

should give up all consumer products and live the ultimate green life is a bit like saying anyone who works for an African aid charity should not eat too much......Correction Niel........such is Gore's consumption of energy resources....the African aid charity individual would need to eat in one sitting 300 cows, 400 pigs, 230 tonnes of brocolli, 17,000 doughnuts, 12,000 KFC drum sticks, 24zillion Big MACS (do you want chips with that?) washed down with 24,000 gallons of coke. Gore is not just an average user of energy resources he is an absolute abuser. And like all great left wing socialists (if it moves tax it) he is the consumate snake oil salesman.

I agree, he has got Americans at least talking about the issue. But whose listening. An essential read for everyone....providing you have adobe acrobat is google "A Global Warming Primer" read the extensive science research associated with that literary genius and report back with your view.

GO HARD......SCIENCE

[paula_w]

As we all know, one has to live it to understand it...but he looks sincere - remembering the impossible standards guys like him are supposed to maintain.

I didn't like his hate-speak days ....respect fell then for me.

On the other hand, it's interesting to have different career phases in your life, and it could be true of many of us-

I'd rather listen to a voice with a little more zip to it.

paula

[Chemar]

soooooooo

returning to the Rugby World Cup




YAY BOKS!!!!!!

http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/4.gif:D http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/4.gif

[paula_w]

Do you find Gore a bore? To the rest of the world, please see my thread about global connections....after I post it that is..... I've already taken this thread off track.

Carry on with the rugby banter....I'm afraid I don't understand the names of your teams. All Blacks would be considered politically questionable over here in the land of everything offends someone. It's rather repressing that someone is out to jump on you if you even mention certain words.

Now Boks - I just don't know what that is? It's almost like Boinks?

Cheerio,
paula

[Chemar]

Hi Paula

no, I am actually very behind Al Gore now that he is doing worthwhile stuff and leaving this nasty politics to others......

My post was related to the fact that South Africa beat England today to become the Rugby World Cup champions :p

The South African team are the Springboks (named after a very swift African gazelle)...hence the Boks cheer :)

[paula_w]

perfectly --- those of you around the world....this sounds pretty important! And the boks have it.


thanks c,
p

[Ronhutton]

Well done the Boks, even if we were cheated out of our perfect try.
Why were all the penalties awarded to S.Africa?
Because you committed all the fouls I hear you cry!!
It was a good natured hard game, and the best side won.
well, I was wrong in my prediction, I usually am!
So I will make another one (You have got to be right some time).
The new British driver Lewis Hamilton to win todays Formula one motor racing in Brazil.
Ron

[Howardh]

Who wrote and sung that song? Hmmmm... But I digress. The All Black name is infamous among Rugby Playing nations of the world. It stems from the First time the New Zealand Rugby Team travelled abroad to the home countries of England, Ireland, and Wales and played in their tradition uniform of a black jersey, black shorts, and black socks. They were labelled the team that played in All Black by the British press and the name stuck. On that 1905 extensive tour the All Blacks were undefeated on tour and have become the most successful team in world rugby since. The All Black name is not a name associated with racial issues. On that 1905 tour the All Blacks lost one game against Wales who were the dominant Rugby team in Europe at the time.

Chemar, congratulations on a spirited win by the Boks. Fantastic for South African Rugby, and fantastic for southern Hemisphere rugby. You guys will party hard into the night, and I suspect for a month or two after that. There are many contentious issues facing South African rugby, and things have not gone well for the team in the last four years. Let's hope this magnificant win will bring all the parties together for the benefit of South African and world rugby.

Ron, condolences on your loss. A stupendous effort by England for making the final considering their below par effort on the world stage over the last four years. In my view the try scored by Cueto after a brilliant break and run by your centre, and unbelievable handling by the backs to get the ball out wide could have gone either way. Had the try been awarded it could very well have been an England victory.

Lewis Hamilton's McLaren racing car could not have picked a worse time to have problems in that final championship race in Brazil. He had three pit stops during the race due to car problems (and that is not a recipe for winning races) and still finished seventh...unbelievable....It was enough to cause him the loss of winning the drivers championship by one point. He and his Mcaren team will be gutted. But lets look at the bright side, the guy is only 22. There are bound to be many F1 world racing championships that will come his way.

GO HARD SCIENCE

[aftermathman]

having watched the match with a load of England fans at an Irish bar in Belgium !!

Great fun, English everywhere. Congratulations Chemar, the Boks were the better team, (but so were a lot of others :) ), so we never knew until the end what the result would be.

England made us proud, they took limited ability and made the best of it to succeed where other, more talented teams, fell by the wayside. Perhaps sport imitating life for some of us here !!

Roll on the next test matches, we'll be back.

Take care,
Neil.

p.s. Paula, you can hi-jack any thread of mine anytime you care, I know you haven't got a clue what 90% of this thread was about but your contribution has been great as ever !!

[paula_w]

Howard, The song was written by Ray Hildebrand, who wrote the song and also sang it with Jill Jackson as Paula. This team was formerly known as "Ray and Jill" or maybe it was "Jill and Ray."

A visit to Google was the least I could do after your thorough explanation of how the All Blacks got their name. Never for a minute did I actually believe it was racist in origin and wish we lived in a world where that was never an issue.

Neil, good thing you didn't mind the interruption because I just did it again. You all seem like such good natured sports fans.

Paula