View Full Version : Need some opinions guys.
10-09-2006, 05:28 PM
Yesterday i went to work and I had not slept again, but it was worse because I actually had to attend an all day lecture in the city. So I had not slept,felt jittery,shaky,extreme fatigue,cold,poor concentration,whole body hurt from lack of sleep. I was fighting to stay awake. I swung around corner at a tea break to the chemist,and my BP was 167/98. Even though on my meds. When the cuff was inflating, ususally it inflates up to 165, and then starts to deflate. Yesterday it inflated past 250 and started deflating?? I am wondering why it did that. I also want to know from others who have BP challenges, does insomnia and fatigue make your BP rise up, even though I am on meds and it's fairly well controlled.
Thank you very much as always:)
10-09-2006, 07:26 PM
hit button by mistake
10-09-2006, 08:48 PM
Isn't there something the doctor can prescribe for you so you can get some sleep? Like Ambien, or Lunesta, or maybe xanax (that's what Alan takes before bedtime).
I mean, you gotta sleep, especially if you work during the day!!! Imsomnia sucks big time!!!!!!
be well (well, as well as you can be)
10-09-2006, 10:35 PM
Does Alan have insomnia? Does he need the xanax everynight? What happens if he does not take it? Does he have BP issues if he doesn't sleep?
I have found the new Ambien CR helps me sleep the night through. Have never had too much trouble getting to sleep but but staying asleep was something else. Ambien CR has remedied that problem. Note: I don't have a chronic sleep problem but it's nice to know there is something that helps when it's needed. If staying asleep is a problem this med is certainly worth trying.
10-10-2006, 12:18 AM
I have a chronic sleep disturbance and have for years. I don't sleep at all. I find that Ambien CR puts me to sleep immediately and I sleep well for the time I do sleep. I usually sleep about 5 hours with one pill. Then I have to get up put gel in my eyes and mouth and then I take 1/2 of a regular Ambien. I sleep about another 4 hours with that. I've been doing this for over a year. I wake up easy in the morning and don't feel drugged.
I was told by a wise old doctor that the body cannot do without sleep. The sleep period is the time that it heals. This time is particularly important when you have a chronic illness. Speak to your doctor about your problem. It is important to your health and sanity.
10-10-2006, 01:15 AM
Thank you for posting. May I ask you Silverlady why you don't sleep at night? Do you actually know the reason? I went to chemist today to get some over the counter sleeing tablets,and chemist told me to try Melatonin. It's some homeopathic formula to dissolve under tongue. My doctor is away on holiday leave for 3 weeks. So I have to wait 3 more weeks to see him so I can get Ambien or something that's needing a prescription.
The chemist also said 2 months is more than enough time for a person on a Tryciclic to return to their normal sleep patterns,and I should not be experiencing this withdrawel from Tryciclic anymore. Do you guys agree that I should have returned to normal sleep by now??
I think we broached this subject once before?
Anyway, all of your listed side effects can be due to the beta blocker
you are taking. Cold extremities, insomnia, fatigue (slower heart rate gives poor aerobic capacity), poor concentration and depression.
Here is a website--
10-10-2006, 01:39 PM
Aussie--If your antidepressant was helping with sleep, was it stopped for another reason? Because the impression I have from your first post is that you were doing fine until then. If so, would it be reasonable to request to go back on it? Getting a good's night's sleep is so important to our health, that insomnia really should be taken seriously. If you have a hard time falling asleep, staying asleep, or wake up early---these are all a bit different.
But in general, most people get help from Ambien, and Ambien CR if they wake in the middle of night helps others. Some people benefit from meds which deepen sleep---a little bit of Elavil, or Trazodone, and some people do benefit from Melatonin--though most of them are probably not pn-ners.
Also, if people are worried about being tired the next day, a daytime dose of Provigil, which improves wakefulness, can take the intense anxiety out of worrying about falling asleep, and make the need for sedatives less.
I myself have had a wicked week with sleep, and hope it eases by the time I have my next drs appointment, next week. After taking one dose of oxycontin 20mg for pain at night, I developed myoclonus as it wore off. For the entire week since then I've been waking in the middle in the night with restless, jerky legs. Sometimes my leg kicks on its own, sometimes it's just so restless I have to get up. Last night I didn't get more than an hour of clear sleep in a row without awakening restless. I've never heard of this kind of problem after taking a paiin-killer, yet that seems to be what started it. I'm just praying it eases off, like a withdrawal syndrome. I've take Klonopin and Ativan without much success.
10-10-2006, 06:37 PM
LizaJane ironically I also experience leg jerks with Oxycontin. And hypnotic jerks too. I always thought it was very strange as well. It does go away, so hang in there.
It is true I was doing very well with my Tryciclic,and when I stopped it I started having problems like,rebound anxiety,panic, & insomnia. I stopped taking it because I developed problems with my jaw. I would be talking to someone or yawning or chewing,and my jaw would slam shut abruptly,and my upper and lower teeth would collide, and grind. This would go on all day. My neuro said it was probably a side-effect of this medication, and I was worried that it would get worse.
Yesterday my chemist told me that I should no longer experience insomnia,as a result of the tryciclic,and something else is going on. So I got a bit worried. I have tried to tackle this insomnia on my own,and to try to ride it out, but it's causing my body alot of physical stress and making me more ill. I have an appoinment tomorrow with another doctor that I have seen in past who hopefully will prescribe something that will help me.
10-10-2006, 06:48 PM
I do not think you have sent that link to me before, I beleive you sent me one on Dothep. It seems that it could also be my Betblocker causing insomnia too.
I don't know where you find all these links,but I'm glad you do!!
I may have not sent side effects per se to you, but I recall you having
escape issues...as your beta blocker wore off. I think you have raised the
doses since I saw that last post. ?
Anyway there are also papers suggesting that beta blockers do interfere
with normal melatonin actions in the body:
Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1999 Apr;55(2):111-5. Related Articles, Links
Influence of beta-blockers on melatonin release.
Stoschitzky K, Sakotnik A, Lercher P, Zweiker R, Maier R, Liebmann P, Lindner W.
Department of Medicine, Karl Franzens University, Graz, Austria.
OBJECTIVE: Melatonin is a mediator in the establishment of the circadian rhythm of biological processes. It is produced in the pineal gland mainly during the night by stimulation of adrenergic beta1- and alpha1-receptors. Sleep disturbances are common side-effects of beta-blockers. The influence of specific beta-blockade as well as that of combined alpha-and beta-blockade on melatonin production has not been investigated in humans before. METHODS: We performed a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study in 15 healthy volunteers. Subjects received single oral doses of 40 mg (R)-propranolol, 40 mg (S)-propranolol, 50 mg (R)-atenolol, 50 mg (S)-atenolol, 25 mg (R,S)-carvedilol, 120 mg (R,S)-verapamil or placebo at 1800 hours. Urine was collected between 2200 hours and 0600 hours, and 6-sulfatoxy-melatonin (aMT6s), the main metabolite of melatonin which is almost completely eliminated in urine, was determined by radioimmunoassay (RIA). RESULTS: Mean nocturnal excretion of aMT6s in urine after intake of the drugs was as follows (in microg): placebo 26; (R)-propranolol 24 (-7%, NS); (S)-propranolol 5 (-80%, P < 0.001); (R)-atenolol 27 (+7%, NS); (S)-atenolol 4 (-86%, P < 0.01); (R,S)-carvedilol 23 (-10%, NS); (R,S)-verapamil 29 (+14%, NS). These data show that only the specifically beta-blocking (S)-enantiomers of propranolol and atenolol decrease the nocturnal production of melatonin whereas the non-beta-blocking (R)-enantiomers have no effect. Unexpectedly, (R,S)-carvedilol which inhibits both alpha- and beta-adrenoceptors does not decrease melatonin production. CONCLUSION: These findings indicate that beta-blockers decrease melatonin release via specific inhibition of adrenergic beta1-receptors. Since lower nocturnal melatonin levels might be the reason for sleep disturbances, further clinical studies should investigate whether or not oral administration of melatonin might avoid this well-known side-effect of beta-blockers. The reason why (R,S)-carvedilol does not influence melatonin production remains to be determined.
* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 10335905 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
So melatonin may be an avenue for you to explore.
Use of beta-blockers (another class of high blood pressure medications including propranolol, acebutolol, atenolol, labetolol, metoprolol, pindolol, nadolol, sotalol, and timolol) may reduce melatonin production in the body.
Large doses of melatonin are no longer recommended. New studies have shown that 0.3mg one hour before bedtime, works best. Keeping it under 1mg at least is suggested. Melatonin is not a drug...it takes a few days of use
to realign your system. So don't expect a dramatic effect in the beginning.
I'd discuss this with your doctor, before moving on to strong RX meds which
do have habit forming characteristics.
10-11-2006, 05:46 PM
My GP did raise the doses. He said that the Tryciclic was keeping a lid on everything, meaning my anxiety. When I stopped it, everything went out of control, anxiety/panic, BP, and so on. So he raised my BetaBlocker to 100 mg x twice daily
Too be honest, I know I still have PN, but very very mildly. Now I suffer from all this new stuff like insomnia,anxiety,BP. This is much worse. Maybe I'll need to start my own "New Board". I can call it, "Sleepless People gone Mad from PN.":D :D LOL!! Just joking about the board!!
Thank you for your help,
10-12-2006, 01:03 AM
I don't know but I tend to disagree with your chemist. If the tricyclic was helping for sleep, and your sleep is problematic, it's not a withdrawal syndrome you are having, but a return of your original symptom. Why stop something that is working? It's hard enough to find something that helps, why put yourself through searching for an alternative?
I take amitryptiline in super low dose for sleep, 20 mg. I got the idea last night that since I was awakening with restless leg/periodic leg movement/myoclonus symptoms, maybe jsut upping the amitryptiling would deepen my sleep enough to get me through. My doc had phoned in a prescription for mirapex, but I didn't have it yet. So, I did this on my own, took 50 mg of the tricyclic, still a very small dose. And I only awakened once.
So now I'm gonig to tell my neuro, and ask him if he minds my just taking the higher dose, rather than trying something new. There's something reassuring about an old safe medicatioin that is helping.
I googled myoclonus and oxycontin. It is very very common. I had thought it was only common in withdrawal, but turns out it's common, period.
So what have you decided to do about the sleep issue?
OMIGOD, it's 1am. I need to go to SLEEP!
10-12-2006, 05:18 PM
To help with sleep and it has Melatonin. It's not the greatest, but it helps a bit. I went to GP yesterday and he gave me a script for Stilnox. It is a proper sleeping tablet like Ambien. I need to fill it today,and I will try it over the weekend and see how I go.
I didn't realise the importance of sleep until I started getting ill from the lack of it.
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