OT - Do You Think People Are Becoming Nicer

[GregW1]

Hi All,

I know all of us here have urgent and pressing and immediate things to tend to, to worry about, that take up much or most of our day, and often leave little time for the leisurely consideration of things like how nice people are, or are not, to one another. I include myself among that group, as my wife nurses a broken foot unlikely to heal anytime soon, I see my orthopod this week about a possible torn rotator cuff (“can you lift boxes weighing 40 lbs or more“ it says on the SSDI questionnaire – “not anymore” I can answer with confidence). And we both struggle though our twelfth year post-dx with PD.

Nevertheless, I have been thinking about precisely that question over the last few weeks, and I wonder if anyone here has an opinion one way or the other. Simply put, do you think that people are becoming more civil, charitable, thoughtful, empathetic – in a word, “nicer” – to one another than they were say ten or twenty or thirty years ago. I am not talking about the more complex social relationships we have with relatives or close friends, or people that for one reason or another we know well. I am talking about how people who are more or less strangers to one another, people we deal with on the phone, at the grocery store or the Walgreen’s, who live down the street or in the neighborhood or across the hall, that you bump into (sometimes literally) at Best Buy or Target. Are these casual and seemingly inconsequential encounters, with nothing at stake except how pleasant or unpleasant the actual social exchange will be at the moment, becoming more pleasant? Are people showing greater “civility,” if you will, to one another?

As you may have figured out, my personal opinion is that they are. I also think these little moments of “civility,” “generosity,” “niceness,” whatever you want to call them (I think of them as instant deep eye-contact moments), occur most often between one individual and another individual. Group encounters tend to change the context from one of possible momentary intimacy and exchange (a real smile, lightness in tone, vulnerability and trust as you get your receipt or make way for another cart in an aisle) into “group” affairs which involve more generalized attitudes toward categories of people and often skew our expectations and therefore the encounter itself.

I used the words “seemingly inconsequential encounters” deliberately, because while each individual moment or encounter as I have described it does nothing more than brighten your day or make a transaction with someone you may never see or talk to again easier or smoother, taken together they make me wonder if there isn’t, underneath all the turmoil of politics and social policy debates, a growing feeling among ordinary folks – even if it’s under their conscious radar - that, as John Lennon said, “I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.” That we recognize that we are together in ways both obvious and mysterious, and that we are the better for it.

Seems like a kind of seasonal question, which is okay, but Tiny Tim aside, does anyone agree, disagree, or have any thoughts along these general lines?

Thanks and Happy Holidays,

Greg

PS - This post was prompted in part by the recent and astonishing report in the New York Times that stranger-to-stranger homicides in NYC are projected to total 35 for all of 2007. In a city of 8 million people. The lowest annual total since they started keeping records in the early '60's.

[indigogo]

Greg -

No, I don't think they are becoming nicer. Nor do I believe they are becoming meaner.

Wondering if it is because you have time now to slow down (and a body that is slowing down), reflect more, and can (and want to) pay attention to the details (the writer's eye and ear?) that you are noticing that by and large, people are nice. And I think that the life you lead is one that attracts niceness - but nice has always been there.

Maybe society feels a little nicer - my theory is that they, we (Americans) are tired of the uncivil and polarizing Bush years - not to mention a war nobody really wants. Hatred is wearying (this echos your Lennon paragraph).

But on a face to face basis, I think that most people are nice - and always have been.

[reverett123]

Or the equivalent :-)

I think that people, given a clear and finite opportunity to be kind, are happy to help. I base this on a six-month period when my wife was in a wheel chair. I would push her about when we went shopping. People really did love to get the door for us. I would observe their faces and you could almost see the thought process:

1) Uh oh! Scary reality! That could be me! Helpless before Fate! Avert eyes? Pretend I am safe?.....
2) ....Wait! Something I can do! An act of power! To make things better - less frightening! The door! I can get the door! I am not helpless - WE are not helpless!

Again and again. Young thugs to old ladies. They WANTED to help. There is hope.

BTW, take a look at http://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

It is a good way to start the day. Stories of ordinary people taking on the universe a little piece at a time and making a difference. Originally, I admit to having curled my lip in cynical wisdom. I got hooked quickly after reading this one-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7096867.stm

[indigogo]

Rick - oh my god! that shed story is amazing! talk about taking control of your own life - and coming up with a communal, practical, positive answer to a dreadful social and personal problem!

I think you are right about helping.

Also, Mrs. Robinson certainly was nice (in the beginning) to Benjamin when Simon and Garfunkel wrote the lyrics "koo koo kachoo," but the Lennon/McCartney equivalent might be "ob-la-di-ob-la-da" with the appropriate line: "Happy ever after in the market place, Molly let's the children lend a hand."

[reverett123]

...then you probably weren't there :D You are right, of course. Both duos were genius (goodness, what is the plural? geni? :) )

The shed thing is great, isn't it? It certainly would be a good way to welcome the military back, wouldn't it? Any number of groups could benefit from such a simple thing. -Rick

Rick - oh my god! that shed story is amazing! talk about taking control of your own life - and coming up with a communal, practical, positive answer to a dreadful social and personal problem!

I think you are right about helping.

Also, Mrs. Robinson certainly was nice (in the beginning) to Benjamin when Simon and Garfunkel wrote the lyrics "koo koo kachoo," but the Lennon/McCartney equivalent might be "ob-la-di-ob-la-da" with the appropriate line: "Happy ever after in the market place, Molly let's the children lend a hand."

[chasmo]

I agree with RIck. People do want to help. One needs to learn the ways to signal that its ok. You get pretty good at picking out the kind faces.

Charlie

[indigogo]

Greg - maybe this time of year there are more demonstrations of nice because we have heard since birth (and I can only assume this applies even subliminally to persons of every religion, at least in the U.S., because it is a ubiquitous, secular holiday tune), that "he's making a list, and checking it twice - he's going to find out who's naughty or nice", so we are automatically on our best behavior?

Regarding sheds - the beauty of the concept is that they seek out the sheds themselves. There would be an outcry if we delegated delapidated buildings (Walter Reed) as veteran rehab centers. But it is a great example of one thing that is important to good mental health - social contacts and friends - and that it doesn't take a state-of-the-art facility to make it happen.

Regarding the song writing genius(es): yes, they did exhibit true genius - but it is kind of funny that we are quoting "koo koo kachoo" and "ob-la-de-ob-la-da" as the example. Or is it because of their genius that they could get away with it?!

Regarding the 60's: I lived through them ages 3-13 - my mind altered only by youth!

[caz5346]

Are people generally getting nicer? Being the pessimist that I am I'd say no. Perhaps it's the places we go at our age and with our PD that makes it seem people are getting nicer. Where do we go? Dr's offices and more Dr offices and in general places we have to go. As for stores, I worked in retail and we were trained to make eye contact, smile and say hi. There were even secret shoppers who came into the store and rated us on our friendlyness. After all, we weren't the only store in town as also there are many Drs that we can go to. With the economy as it is everyone wants our dollar in their pocket. There are days when doors are held open for me and there are days when someone walks in a door before me and will let it shut in my face. It's not as if they can't see I walk with a cane.
And that shed story is great. Wouldn't it be nice to do that with the empty buildings here in the U.S. instead of letting them sit empty and become eyesores. We have a battle going on here right now with homeless shelters. We don't have enough and one of the local churches wanted to open it's doors at night. But the local politicians stepped in and said no way it's not zoned for that. Well, the church opened it's doors anyway and now has to hire security to keep the locals happy. Some people hear homeless and right away assume lazy, drunk, useless, etc. Perhaps if they really looked at these homeless people they'd see war veterans and some very unlucky circumstances. I'm printing that story and sending it to our local paper. Not that it'll do any good. See I am a pessimist.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth for the year.
Carol

[jeanb]

Greg,

I don't think people are getting nicer, but I wish they were. However every once in a while I'm surprised by random acts of kindness. When I was having trouble loading groceries into my car because of a broken arm, a kind stranger came over to help me. I thanked her and told her young daughter that her mommy was an angel to help me.

But on an airplane (with same broken arm) the flight attendant told me SHE could not help me stow my carryon bag in the overhead bin. I said fine, I'll wait until someone comes who CAN help me.

It take so little to be kind and courteous and it means so much.
:hug:

[proudest_mama]

Greg,

I'm 50/50 on this one - but what I CAN tell you is that I am the one who always brightens up other's days. It just makes MY day when I've made THEIR day!

A few examples - find a person, ANY person, who looks as if they could use a day brightener. Say only "I really like that shirt you're wearing. The color is beautiful on you" and you have not only made their day, but their week.

I now say to the cashiers, dressing room attendants, stockers, etc. ... "I hope everyone treats you nice today." I actually had one such employee do a double take and then went ... "THANK YOU!"

Say to any male in WalMart, KMart, JC Penney's, etc., sitting on a bench, walking beside their wife and/or just killing time , .... "You were dragged here, weren't you?" and see their smiles lite up. I then say, "You know, it's PAY BACK time for all of the times that you dragged us to Home Depot and Best Buy!"

I routinely tell the Post Office employees as well as the Customer Service desk (where all the RETURN purchases are handled) ... there are some jobs that I just couldn't do ... and yours is one of them. The other is the a) post office or b) the return desk at WalMart. It usually gets them talking and puts them in a good mood.

And now, just to show you how much fun I have with people in general, I was shopping at Academy Sports when all the college kids were back for the summer months and had just started working. Everyone seemed to have a huge frown on their face, as if thinking ... "I actually have to endure three MONTHS of this?!"

While walking around, I saw one girl doing her job with a huge smile on her face, so I walked up to her and said, "I just don't get it ... everyone else has a big frown on their face like they can't believe they've got to do this for three solid months and you've got this huge grin. What's your secret?" She said, after which I laughed hysterically ... "It's my first day on the job!"

And, yes, a week later I was back, returning a swim suit that my daughter wanted to exchange and I walked up to her and said, "Do you remember me? You're no longer smiling!"

Another time our water got turned off (long story), it was a Friday afternoon, we have six people in this family and there was no way in heck we could have survived without water. I was actually so convincing (polite, funny, firm, etc.) that the guy wanted to know if I would work for him and then actually sent me flowers the next day. I kid you not!

Oh the fun you can have with people!

So, yes, I do believe that an act of kindness, ANY act of kindness, is not only appreciated, but reciprocated and passed on. If you make someone think that THEY'RE special, they in turn feel good about themselves and keep the cycle going.

Greg, thanks for the link. I'm always looking for the good in mankind and you just helped prove it. KUDOS TO YOU!

[jeanb]

:o Thank YOU!

You really made me smile. I hope we meet one day! I like your style.
:hug:

We should all be more like you - and that would mean more many many more random acts of kindness. And that would be a very good thing indeed.

[ol'cs]

Is that people will be not nice, or nice depending on how they percieve you. If you have gotten older, more frail (less of a threat), and smile first, i think that it would be an "i think people are getting nicer" call. I say this because Americans, and people in general, live by codes, where they tend to respect their elders, and have compassion to those with disabilities.
If you appear young, poorly dressed (i mean unwashed, and in tatters; not a suit and tie that doesn't match! :cool:), and present with a smug, cocky, threatening attitude (the eyes are the window to the world), people will react different to you, and you may percieve them to be "mean"
I also think that there is a thing about being in pain or sorrow. People see it on your face and the "instantaneous mental skake down" that they get is that you are more conncerned with your own matters and as such, prove less of a threat to them. AS an example, people inn your way in the grocery store. They know that they are impeding you, but you just wait patiently for them. They are playing a little game, trying to force you to be rude to them so that they can do what they do best, hassle with you. But if they see that you are trying to hold youself up, they see your cane, and an unperturbed look of serene patience on your face, they more often than not apologize and get out of your way. This example can have hundreds of similarities to it.
I do think that because of a faster paced life, and the increased pressure to make a buck, people are less patient than they used to be, but "meaner", not really. cs

[BEMM]

People are as kind and as unkind as ever. Often unkindness is simply absent mindedness, which is rude, but not mean. Terri has the right idea, but I'm going to be terribly unkind and say that such a long, self congratulatory praise made me feel like I needed a stiff slug of vinegar. I'm not really an unkind person by nature, I like to be kind, and kindness begets kindness. It also makes you feel good to make people smile. But I stay away from the false compliments - they are patronizing and usually transparently so. Pride in one's own sweetness just rubs me the wrong way. I'm probably not as nice as I used to be.

Crabby birte

[Jaye]

Perhaps beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The expression “seeing with the eyes of the heart” refers to a way of looking at others with love, making allowances for their shortcomings and wishing the best for them. “The eyes of the heart are not concerned with appearances but with essences, and as we cultivate these eyes we are able to learn from our suffering and to see the world with more loving, forgiving, humble, generous eyes,” says Desmond Tutu. Tutu also observes that “suffering is not optional,” but “while we are not free to choose whether we suffer, we are free to choose whether it will ennoble us or instead will embitter us.”

I agree with Tutu, that what you see depends on how you look.

It’s interesting, Greg, that you limit your remarks to people encountered for a moment. For all of us, is it hard to imagine looking in this way at people you know? Or the opposite, that whomever you get to know turns out to be dear to you because the eyes of your heart are always “on”? I think I’ve heard Greg say that when posting (in the old MGH forum) and reading posts, one should put on their “forum glasses,” which I would translate as “love glasses.”

But then I wasn’t supposed to be asking the questions.

I haven't read the links yet. I may be back.

Jaye

[vlhperry]

It's Genii. What's wrong? Did you lose your dictionary? What are you, Helpless? Did you hide it on a top shelf where it is to inconvenient to reach?
Did you really want an answer to the plural of Genius or was it a rhetroical question?

I am just playing with you, sir. I am afraid I am also one of those types of people, like Teri, who enjoy going out of my way to acknowledge positive aspects I see in strangers or finding answers to questions.

If you do it in a positive way, unlike above, the receiver of the info will appreciate the positive observation. Help presented in a negative way will receive a negative responce. Words are such important symbols to communicate with.

Vicky

[indigogo]

Main Entry: ge·nius
Pronunciation: \ˈjēn-yəs, ˈjē-nē-əs\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ge·nius·es or ge·nii \-nē-ˌī\
Etymology: Latin, tutelary spirit, natural inclinations, from gignere to beget
Date: 1513
1 a. plural genii : an attendant spirit of a person or place bplural usually genii : a person who influences another for good or bad
2: a: strong leaning or inclination : penchant
3 a: a peculiar, distinctive, or identifying character or spirit b: the associations and traditions of a place c: a personification or embodiment especially of a quality or condition
4 plural usually genii : spirit, jinni
5 plural usually geniuses a: a single strongly marked capacity or aptitude <had a genius for getting along with boys — Mary Ross> b: extraordinary intellectual power especially as manifested in creative activity c: a person endowed with transcendent mental superiority; especially : a person with a very high IQ

[proudest_mama]

I can take it! Because I honestly DO mean the compliments and I'd talk to these people for hours if I could (and as often as I can, I do stand and talk). It's just my nature. I'd invite them all into my home and share everything I have. I purposely and blatantly chose the area where we live to mingle with "ordinary" folks.

As most of you know, my husband is an engineer. He works for a major oil company and works in the Energy Corridor of the Houston area. Almost everyone who transferred here lives in a certain, let's say, prestigious city. I am not joking when I say that we went out to dinner, everyone was white, upper to middle class, making $70,000 and above and I got the hee-be-jeebies. I am NOT comfortable around people like that. I can't, won't and don't play the game as in ... "Where do YOU live ... in the area of homes that cost $100,000 to $150,000 ... or in the $250,000 to $300,000 home area? I just can't stomach that. We also looked at the school statistics and, at that time, they did not even have ONE percent economically disadvantaged (i.e. those that got reduced lunch meals). Not even one percent ... they had to put an asterisk in it's place. I kid you not. That is NOT the real world!

So my children go to school with 50% white and 50% minorities. THAT is the real world! My daughter's best friend is black, her mother committed suicide, and she lived with her aunt to finish out high school. Another friend of hers lives in a trailer outside the city limits and, you know what? I consider her mother now one of my close friends.

Our children also pay half their college education, did not receive a car for either their 16th or 18th birthdays, and will have to buy back the cars that we purchased for them.

My daughter came home from school one day wanting a photo of our house. When I asked why, she said it was because no one believed where she lived. Another time, she needed to stop by the house quickly to pick up something, and her friend looked at the house and said, "I would have never guessed." Her reply ... "exactly".

And, if I'm not brightening people's days with compliments, I help them out financially if I can. 98% of this is done anonymously ... I helped a friend in Bible Study by crumpling up $40.00 and stuffing it in her diaper bag. (The next week she asked if I was missing any money and I feigned ignorance). I've given the church a check for the pastor's two kids to cover a field trip (he doesn't need to know where it came from), I gave a lady at Firestone $40.00 because the attendant said that she needed work done, she looked in her purse, and I just knew, knew that she didn't have the money. And even PRIOR to giving her the money, I taught her how to play Sudoko .... this crazy 47 year old white woman, asking an elderly, retired black lady if she wanted me to teach her how to play Sudoko. She was SOOO excited and kept telling me ... "This is so cool, oh, this is so cool, I can't wait to get my own book."

I also invite them over for a coke, a swim, a soak in the hot tub and some one-on-one conversation. I know that not everyone is as blessed financially as I am and can't even afford McDonald's. I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable, too, by always buying lunch. This way we have a good time, and it's free!

After we lost a child at the age of 18 days old, I routinely read the obits and sent out a letter to anyone who lost a child letting them know that their feelings are real, very real, and not to let anyone else tell them differently. I gave them my phone number but was upset that they could cross reference my name with the phone book and know where we lived.

That is the one stark difference between my husband and I. He thinks he EARNED it (and, yes, physically he did) ... I see it as God's gracious gift.

So you can see, I can live with myself because it's sincere down to my deepest core. My ONLY regret is that I didn't marry Bill Gates! So, if some day I really DO marry a Bill Gates equivalent, be sure to look me up. I'll be handing out smiles, free swims in my pool, a kind word or two, and nothing will have changed ... except for the cash freely flowing from my home to theirs.

But in all fairness to everyone, I do see how my posts may come across as gloating. I don't mean it. You'd have to know me to understand. But I do understand how you think it could be, especially on paper

So I say to Birte, KC and trfan, come on down to Houston without a dime in your pocket and we can have fun. I make my own entertainment ... sponsored by my husband ... he just doesn't know it. LOL

:hug:

[vlhperry]

Thanks for straigtening us out on the meaning of genius. But understanding words is only a part of communicating. We use our eyes, smell, touch and hearing when we are talking to another person face to face. It may be Terri gently touches the person, looks directly at the person she is commiserating with, or the tone of her voice that helps convey her meaning. To assume she is being arrogant can only be perceived by the reciepient of the reciepient of Terri's reasurrance or attempt to touch a personal responce.

Words alone cannot express feelings adequately. If they could, Hallmark could not make so much money printing sympathy cards stating, "Words cannot express...", "Words are so inadequate to reveal..."

Sometimes the only responce is a hug and a tear to convey our feelings. Humans do not rely only on words to feel cared for. Taking the time to say them can mean more than the words themselves. Terri, you rock!!

I like and admire your positive attitude.

Vicky

[DJM1]

I don't know that I think people are becoming nicer. It seems to me that there's more and more intolerance of other people's differences, less importance put on treating others as you would have them treat you. I think the Golden Rule should be dusted off and taught to everyone at a young age once again.

Having said that, I do think that the majority of people I meet each day are nice - that the number of genuinely nice people outnumber the others. It's situational though. Someone I think is friendly and outgoing might turn into Psycho Dad while watching his six year old son play football or might be one of the ones putting lives at risk with his impatient driving habits.

I think people typically are nice to me because I'm nice to them. My oldest son tells me I'm too friendly, that I talk to "complete strangers." And I do! Like Terri, I often compliment others when I like what they're wearing, how they handled a situation with their kids, etc.- sincere comments, not just platitudes. I love to ask for a store manager, watch them walk up to me obviously expecting a complaint, and then see their delight when instead I compliment an employee on the service they've given me. I would take the time to complain if I was unhappy with an employee, so why not take the time to compliment excellence? We all walk away feeling good! It's little things that make all the difference.

Miss Pollyanna here thinks the world would be a better place if everyone going into a grocery store pushed a cart in as they went, there by leaving parking spaces free and reducing the dings and scratches cars get in the parking lot. It's a simple, helpful thing I do that costs me nothing.

I loved the movie "Pay It Forward", loved the basic idea of doing something nice for someone, then they do something nice for someone else, and that person helps a third, and so on. What a totally simple concept to change our world for the better!

[reverett123]

http://www.ajc.com/living/content/living/stories/2007/11/20/real_1121.html

[jcitron]

It's Genii. What's wrong? Did you lose your dictionary? What are you, Helpless? Did you hide it on a top shelf where it is to inconvenient to reach?
Did you really want an answer to the plural of Genius or was it a rhetroical question?

I am just playing with you, sir. I am afraid I am also one of those types of people, like Teri, who enjoy going out of my way to acknowledge positive aspects I see in strangers or finding answers to questions.

If you do it in a positive way, unlike above, the receiver of the info will appreciate the positive observation. Help presented in a negative way will receive a negative responce. Words are such important symbols to communicate with.

Vicky

I too always try to find the good side of people no matter what, and will go out of the way to help. I work in customer service, and the dealers I work with rely on me to help them. They also like the fact that I recognize them immediately when they call, and that I actually take the time to call them back. I guess common courtesy and respect is something that's not part of the picture these days. I agree if you give someone help in a kind, helpful manner, the response back is a good one.

John

[CTenaLouise]

we have always had among us good and bad, and no one is good all the time,
however we still have living amongst us, the people who show mercy -
people who show love -people who will give you a hand up , if you are down...
there is nothing new/knew under the sun -

we still have the echoes of the insane peoples -such as this man from which I will quote:
The invalid is a parasite on society. In a certain state it is indecent to go on living. To vegetate on in cowardly dependence on physicians and medicaments after the meaning of life, the right to life, has been lost ought to entail the profound contempt of society.
Friedrich Nietzsche he was/is the inspiration for Hitler's of the world - such as we are in -with a tyrant at the helm...

Nazi ideology drew on the racist doctrines of the comte de Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain, on the nationalism of Heinrich von Treitschke, and on the hero-cult of Friedrich Nietzsche, often transforming the ideas of these thinkers. Nazi dogma, partly articulated by Hitler in Mein Kampf, was elaborated by the fanatical Alfred Rosenberg. Vague and mystical, it was not a system of well-defined principles but rather a glorification of prejudice and myth with elements of nihilism. Its mainstays were the doctrines of racial inequality and of adherence to the leader, or Führer; its constant theme was nationalist expansion.

According to Nazi dogma, races could be scientifically classified as superior and inferior. The highest racial type was the Nordic, or Germanic, type of the “Aryan” race, while blacks and Jews were at the bottom of the racial ladder. Intermarriage contributed to the deterioration of the superior race, and the Jews, knowing this, had furthered prostitution and seduction to defile the Germans. Consequently only small islands of the pure remained, but it was their destiny to govern their inferiors and, through scientific breeding, to extend the “master race” and limit inferior races.

and we still have the common man and those who try to stand for us in the public eyes -such as the mother teresa's and the pope john paul's, and
and those humane human beings that believe it is not wrong to allow the poor, the homeless, the disabled to be nutured and shown respect until death comes...
I believe there are many of these- but they will not usually be famous, until after death, like Anne Frank...

so for me the world is no greater now -no less intelligent, no kinder than it ever was because of the human element...

yet those who know their is a greater meaning to life and a greater Spirit than our own - that I call God, those that try to help humanity as we all know we are full of weaknesses - so we should try to love God and others as we try to love ourselves...

there is nothing new under the sun -

[pkell]

I have spent a good deal of time lately reading old posts to reacquaint myself with people I knew before I dropped out a few years ago, to acquaint myself with new people who have come since I left and to see the direction the forum is taking these days. Happily many posters are familiar to me and equally happily there are many new and interesting writers here.

This thread really caught my eye especially in light of the current climate and I wonder how the answers will compare today.

I am personally southern born and bred. That is only significant in that we are taught from birth to smile, regardless if there is anything amusing happening. “Smile honey, someone will think your cat died” or something near could always be heard coming from cars dropping off school children. Southerners instruct their children in manners with the enthusiasm of religious zealots and failure to observe protocols of behavior are met with an air of disappointment usually reserved for being booted out of school.

I lived in Europe for a year many moons ago and found the level of public civility to fall substantially below that of my southern standards. The custom of queuing was unheard of and smiling at a stranger was met with obvious suspicion.

All of this may very well sound like a throw back to a bygone era, and I will not argue, but it did provide a framework within which parties of differing passions and beliefs could discuss their disagreements without rancor or insults. A framework where persuasion could replace argument and compromise was a possibility.

I’m thinking we have lost something when there are no longer any rules of behavior.

[aftermathman]

I lived in Europe for a year many moons ago and found the level of public civility to fall substantially below that of my southern standards. The custom of queuing was unheard of and smiling at a stranger was met with obvious suspicion.



I'm guessing you didn't live in the UK where we queue for literally everything.

Based on the murder rates per 100,000 people:

New York - six murders on average per 100,000 people
New Orleans - 64
St. Louis - 47
Los Angeles - 10

London - 2 murders per 100,000 people
Tokyo - 1

The US looks like a scarey place to live and this reopens the old debate over the right to own firearms !!

In the UK, things are getting worse, (or I'm getting older), statistically things appear to be getting better in the US but all things are relative.

Keep your heads down folks,
Neil.

[paula_w]

Now that we are so often on the lookout for explosives, people have been distracted from shooting each other.

On the other hand, while stumbling down the street in NYC with peg and she was wearing a shoe boot- what a pair - my suitcase kept falling off the one it was strapped to. A man walking in the opposite direction stopped, fixed them, never looked at me or said a word and kept going.

I know that I cry very easily when kindness and compassion are extended. I need to cry more often. I don't think people are expressing anything. They are rather emotionless.

paula

[BEMM]

Pkell, it could not have been Denmark you lived in......
Europe is not one thing, it has never been one thing. Attitudes to politeness differ greatly. And the same is already true in the US.

[pkell]

Aftermath and BEMM,

In trying not to disparage one group I have ended up disparaging all, my appologizes. I really did not mean it as a criticism but more an illustration of the different standards of politeness. It is my understanding that in Japan it is considered rude to show your teeth when smiling. Imagine what they would think of we southerners showing however many teeth available at every opportunity.

My only point was, without any rules, where we are all free to do and say whatever we wish, it becomes very difficult for opposing opinions to be heard over the fray. It also makes it difficult for us to learn from each other.

Sorry if I offended.

{Politeness should never be confused with weakness}

[aftermathman]

Aftermath and BEMM,

In trying not to disparage one group I have ended up disparaging all, my appologizes. I really did not mean it as a criticism but more an illustration of the different standards of politeness. It is my understanding that in Japan it is considered rude to show your teeth when smiling. Imagine what they would think of we southerners showing however many teeth available at every opportunity.

My only point was, without any rules, where we are all free to do and say whatever we wish, it becomes very difficult for opposing opinions to be heard over the fray. It also makes it difficult for us to learn from each other.

Sorry if I offended.

{Politeness should never be confused with weakness}

and no offense taken.

Neil.

[BEMM]

Dear Pkell, no offense taken here either, none at all. My tendency to be pedantic got the better of me............ again.

[paula_w]

No way,there is more evil around than ever before in 'the American experiment" . Why do I say that.....dead kids....for starters.

p