Complex Post Traumatic Chronic Stress Disorder

[OneMoreTime]

Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder has only recently been officially recognized and is now the subject of a great deal of research because of the huge economic impact it has.

Often the result of being long-term bullied at work or online or even in volunteer organizations, it can lead to triggering the first episode of Bipolar Disorder, as well as Anxiety/Panic Disorders, Severe & Chronic Depression. It leads to sick days taken, even unpaid days taken, even simply becoming unable to any longer be able to function at work. It is an only recently recognized huge financial burden on businesses which is helping spur (but still too slowly) the training of managers and human resources to be responsive to bullying. Unfortunately, if the manager(s) or people in human resources are part of the bullying problem, sometimes bullies themselves or sometimes "snowed" by the charming, disarming and seemingly reasonable depiction of the bullied person as being the actual trouble-maker... Or as being emotionally disturbed to begin with, being the cause of their own THINKING they are being bullied.

The Complex Chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by physical and/or sexual and/or emotional abuse during early childhood is considered to be the cause of the syndrome currently still officially known as "Borderline Personality Disorder".

Women (and men, too) who are emotionally abused within a close relationship, with the hallmarks of control-freakery, crazy-making, isolation from friends and family, as well as verbal and/or physical abuse - and, if the person tries to flee the relationship, stalking and terror-inducing behavior. This also leads to this type of PTSD.

This type of disorder is often seen, too, in law-enforcement in some work conditions and in many returning veterans, even if they have not had a specific critical trauma circumstance like being injured severely or witnessing the killing of comrades.

For many many years, beginning with what was first labeled SHELL SHOCK, PTSD was considered to be the result of a single overwhelming traumatic experience. A severe battle or assault, a terrifying accident (like a plane crash, et al), kidnapping, especially vicious rape - the "official definition" of PTSD meant something that was the result of a single instance of trauma.

Complex Post Traumatic Disorder due to Chronic Prolonged Abuse leads to a great deal of economic problems due to no longer being able to be productively employed, leading to bankruptcies, loss of home and sometimes family, even homelessness. Tremendous numbers will end up in on disability or, if they don't realize they can claim disability and wait too long, then extreme poverty and only SSI and Medicaid and limited housing opportunities.

Because of the increasing recognition of this type of PTSD, it is leading to the training of mental health professionals in recognizing the symptoms. Research is now going into trying to understand how best to treat the syndrome.

What the main problems are is
1) the victim being unable to seek mental health help or
2) the victim not recognizing that what is happening is abuse if it is not a fist in the face or
3) the victim's fear that seeking out a shrink will label him/her as "a head case" or
4) the victim thinking that all that is happening is somehow his/her own fault and that he can't yell help, but must just keep trying harder to get the abuser to stop the abuse. Of course, that doesn't happen.

However, what IS known already is that the best recovery for PTSD victims is when treatment begins as soon as possible. Once months and years of abuse have passed, the problems for the victim are deep and extreme, their very personality having changed..

So it is important that this group, this forum, recognize that PTSD is not a "one size fits all" problem. I think this post should be a sticky.

OneMoretime

[HeyJoe]

are you saying that complex post traumatic stress disorder is different in some ways from PTSD or are you saying that the cause is different but it has the same characteristics as ptsd , or do both apply?

If the best chance of recovery for ptsd is to be treated as soon as possible, than complex post traumatic stress disorder by definition has a low chance of recovery?

I have thought about this in the past, never having heard of c-ptsd, that the definition of the cause of ptsd was very narrow and that people can become traumatized over time without having one specific life threatening incident.

I would imagine that this cause or type of ptsd is not accepted by the whole medical community at this time.

[Brokenfriend]

I have anxiety,panic,pain in my chest from chronic anxiety,OCD,depression,and now I'm out of work at 55,and cannot stand to many people because I had a dad who was most abusive with his flairs of anger,I was bullied at school,I was bullied at private school,I've been bullied at work over,and over by Bosses,workers,and others who could do their bullying thing. Now I'm 55,cannot stand people at work,I don't want to go outside,the center of my chest is hurting from stress,and my muscles are pulling in that area,and right at this time,I almost wish that I was dead. I'm living out in the country in a family member's old vacant house,and they don't understand what's happening to me. I'm angry,depressed,scared,and don't want to have contact with people,and I react emotionally now to the slightest thing that someone might do that I think is a violation of my honor,integrity,who I am as a person,my work,my hobbies,the way I think,and respond. So far Social Security disability won't help me. I have a sister who is trying to help me,but she has no clue of what I'm going through. Right now I just hate life,and I'm just trying to live day,by day. I have no clue what to do. I know that I'm not crazy. I even got hurt by a pastor. He was young, and inexperienced,and let some missionary punch me in the stomach two times,to expel a demon. They said I was that way because I was on my Doctor's medication,and they could not help me because of it. That was about 20 years ago. Around that time when I woke up,I would immediately have a panic attack. My sister says that she notices that I seem to have a hard time processing my thoughts in the beginning of what I'm doing. That's been true all of my life. I failed two grades even though my IQ is upper average. My chest is hurting deep down now,and there isn't anything that I can do about it. I cannot get much help at all,and this condition isn't getting any better. It seems to be getting slightly worse as the years go by. People in society never have cared much about people who are emotionally hurting,even though we are no longer in the dark ages.They only help what they see if they help at all. It's not fair.

[GladysD]

I would imagine that this cause or type of ptsd is not accepted by the whole medical community at this time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_Post_Traumatic_Stress_Disorder

<snip>Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (C-PTSD) is a clinically recognized condition...<snip>

<snip>As a descriptor, PTSD fails to capture some of the core characteristics of C-PTSD. These elements include psychological fragmentation, the loss of a sense of safety, trust, and self-worth, as well as the tendency to be revictimized, and, most importantly, the loss of a coherent sense of self. It is this loss of a coherent sense of self, and the ensuing symptom profile, that most pointedly differentiates C-PTSD from PTSD<snip>

I think I may have more to add....just gotta log off for the moment...

[OneMoreTime]

Hi Joe and Gladys ....

When i said it was a relatively recently professionally recognized disorder that was a form of PTSD, you can see thru a search of PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez and put "Complex PTSD", you get two pages (37 articles) starting in 1996
AND, if you use the terms "Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder", you get 284 articles, dating back to 1983.
The oldest articles are from the study of military veterans.

Put "compound ptsd" in the search box, you get 11 articles dating back to 1985.
Put "compound post traumatic stress disorder", you get a different 11, back to 1985, many on children and long-term severe medical problems.

When my husband was in medical school, it was commonly said by the professors that by the time a textbook was published including "new information", it was already 10 years out of date. :eek: This is why it is good that the standard of "continuing medical education" began - where doctors cannot stay certified in their specialties without putting in "x" number of hours of study a year of specific material, and taking exams. It is impossible for ANY psychiatrist (or any specialist, unless the focus of his practice is VERY narrow) to stay up to date with all the research being published every week, reading the dozens of journals and publications, never mind buying another huge book to tackle.

I first became aware of the concept because of a woman, GD, who brought it to my attention that there was a child psychiatrist in Dallas Texas at Southern Methodist University in their pediatric psychiatric institute who had done long term, in-depth, studies of children exposed to severe repetitive prolonged environmental psychological, verbal and physical abuse. He discovered that these children were highly likely to develop the so-called Borderline Personality Disorder.

Stressors can be spaced out. Incesuous molestation over ten years, a parental rape in college, failure to cope with the pressures of a demanding professional school, losing a job when you do your job well, being abused within an intimate relationship, divorce, severe loss of living conditions, descending into poverty, being severely bullied over a period of months or years, losing all your community reputation in the process, while not a single friend comes forward to defend you --- all these stressors can progressively accumulate into SEVERE CPTSD, even tho a lessor CPTSD has existed for years.

Whether untreated and unresolved PTSD, or CPTSD, the same two brain structures SHRINK and do not begin to regain their normal size and resume normal functions until AFTER recovery.

It EXISTS. It is detectable, provable. Don't let a doctor's disbelief and lack of validating you stop you from looking for help. Help is possible, recovery is possible to a greater or lesser extent. It is worth fighting for. Read, participate in relevant support groups. If you live in metro areas or near military installations, you could call hospitals and psych clinics looking for support groups.

I've come a long way. Long way. I'm not who I was before. I am BETTER than I was before. :)

OneMoreTime

[GladysD]

Would this explain how someone could have borderline tendancies, and even bordeline time periods in their life...although seemingly 'healed' and not displaying those characteristics?

Because if this is true....I TOO have come A LONG WAY :)

[OneMoreTime]

Yes, Gladys .. :hug:

I just read the Wikipedia.org encyclopedia article - link ->
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_post-traumatic_stress_disorder

After abosorbing text, check out near the end you will find generalized Sources for the article, "See Also" which is a listing of relevant related topics, References, Footnotes and External Links to other "best sites" on the web. If you are interested in deeper background study, many local libraries operate on an interlibrary loan program where you can request the checkout of books not at your local library, but that are found at other libraries and even Colleges and Universities. All you need is the ISBN number, Author and Title, and working with a librarian to write out the request.

If you know anything about Wikipedia, not only is the entire content entirely free and reproducible anywhere, anytime, in any form.... But articles are also continually changing in minor and major ways. Click on the "Discussion tab" to see a relatively few discussions to explain editings and to seek consensus on major changes. ANYONE can register to become an editor and do everything from correcting grammar and punctuation, to clarifying a sentence or paragraph, to investigating whether a given footnote source is "clinically significant" where it represents a widely researched, well-supported, accepted and/or proven fact.

I suggest using Wiki as your jump off point if you want more information as this article has already been vetted, graded for the quality (at the date of the vetting), and is always being updated, so dead links are removed and biased inappropriate additions deleted.

To see how WikiPedia works, when you are on the Topic/Article page, click on "History" and you can see what I am talking about.

And Gladys, The Borderline Personality Disorder is considered to be the only PD that can be successfully treated (letting sufferers gain substantial interpersonal stability) with medications and various types of therapies. Cognitive therapy is was the first proven effective, but there are others now, even one involving moving the eyes (used in the aftermath of 9/11). Medications include antidepressants, epilepsy medications (to calm panicky agitation) and sometimes the lesser and major tranquilizers. It is best to work with a doctor who is flexible and responsive to your feedback.

There is a school of thought, supported by European "separated at birth twin studies" -(no longer allowed)- that there appears there may be a genetic component of vulnerability to "degree of reaction to stress." It will be some years along before the all this is proven or disproven, but through-out the PDs, there does seem seem a significant genetic component. Not all will develop the same degree of personality characteristics and symptomatic thinking, emotions and behaviors, but you get the idea.

I do, as I said, strongly encourage all who are interested in CPTSD to check out the Wikipedia Encyclopedia article link above. I read it carefully and found it to be, indeed, a significantly good representation of what I have learned from many authoritative sources since early 2000 when that doctor in Dallas first introduced me to the disorder.

OneMoreTime

[GladysD]

I came accross this site as I was reading through what I can find on-line. Hope it's helpful to some of you!

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/ncdocs/fact_shts/fs_complex_ptsd.html

<snip>There is a tendency to blame the victim.
A person who has been abused repeatedly is sometimes mistaken as someone who has a "weak character."

Because of their chronic victimization, in the past, survivors have been misdiagnosed by mental-health providers as having Borderline, Dependent, or Masochistic Personality Disorder. When survivors are faulted for the symptoms they experience as a result of victimization, they are being unjustly blamed.

Researchers hope that a new diagnosis will prevent clinicians, the public, and those who suffer from trauma from mistakenly blaming survivors for their symptoms.

Summary
The current PTSD diagnosis often does not capture the severe psychological harm that occurs with prolonged, repeated trauma. For example, long-term trauma may impact a healthy person's self-concept and adaptation. The symptoms of such prolonged trauma have been mistaken for character weakness. Research is currently underway to determine if the Complex PTSD diagnosis is the best way to categorize the symptoms of patients who have suffered prolonged trauma. <snip>

[OneMoreTime]

Thanks so much, Gladys for finding and posting this link. This is exactly why I have generally been referring to "BPD" for so many years as "so-called Borderline Personality Disorder", as I am (personally) virtually convinced that BPD is not a true extreme form of a particular "personality type", but is an outcome of childhood abuse. I think the older you are when the abuse hits severe levels is instrumental in whether or not cutting behaviors and strong suicidal drives develop. But, I will point out again, this is my own gut-level personal take on it (but based on research) ... but I strongly believe futher research will continue to support this understanding.

I think we are well on our way of giving this new forum an excellent start as a educational and supportive resource.

Oh and by the way, regarding how some feel that some persons are more vulnerable - that is not to suggest that they are "weak" or "damaged goods at birth" or "prone to mental illness" ------ it is more of simply personally type. Some of us are more sensitive.... women are moreso, I think the studies show, to be diagnosed as "bpd".

And as for abuse received as an adolescent or adult (particularly in a woman's case), she IS blamed for her own problems, as bringing them on herself. She is not seen as abused and needing rescue, validation and treatment, but is scorned and deprecated as a human being.

For those exposing the abuse of childhood, they often become the black sheep of the family for revealing the sick family secrets and for suggesting the public faces of the abusers are mere masks.

Hugs to my sister in recovery...
Teri
OneMoreTime

[GladysD]

(((Teri)))

It's great to have another soul on this planet thinking along the same lines as myself. :hug:

I went into community forum and there is a request link for forums. I requested that this C-PTSD be stickied and for PD boards. I hope they can do this! I bet there's lots of people out there, reading this...and needing advice and support...especially from people who do indeed 'get it.'

I know that there is a psyche talk, but in all reality, I have a neurological disease, MS...and well I enjoy the 'one-stop' shopping benefits that this board seems to offer. And I know that there are indeed others like ourselves out there....:)

Blessings to you on this beautiful day!!!

[GladysD]

I have anxiety,panic,pain in my chest from chronic anxiety,OCD,depression,and now I'm out of work at 55,and cannot stand to many people because I had a dad who was most abusive with his flairs of anger,I was bullied at school,I was bullied at private school,I've been bullied at work over,and over by Bosses,workers,and others who could do their bullying thing. Now I'm 55,cannot stand people at work,I don't want to go outside,the center of my chest is hurting from stress,and my muscles are pulling in that area,and right at this time,I almost wish that I was dead. I'm living out in the country in a family member's old vacant house,and they don't understand what's happening to me. I'm angry,depressed,scared,and don't want to have contact with people,and I react emotionally now to the slightest thing that someone might do that I think is a violation of my honor,integrity,who I am as a person,my work,my hobbies,the way I think,and respond. So far Social Security disability won't help me. I have a sister who is trying to help me,but she has no clue of what I'm going through. Right now I just hate life,and I'm just trying to live day,by day. I have no clue what to do. I know that I'm not crazy. I even got hurt by a pastor. He was young, and inexperienced,and let some missionary punch me in the stomach two times,to expel a demon. They said I was that way because I was on my Doctor's medication,and they could not help me because of it. That was about 20 years ago. Around that time when I woke up,I would immediately have a panic attack. My sister says that she notices that I seem to have a hard time processing my thoughts in the beginning of what I'm doing. That's been true all of my life. I failed two grades even though my IQ is upper average. My chest is hurting deep down now,and there isn't anything that I can do about it. I cannot get much help at all,and this condition isn't getting any better. It seems to be getting slightly worse as the years go by. People in society never have cared much about people who are emotionally hurting,even though we are no longer in the dark ages.They only help what they see if they help at all. It's not fair.


We all eventually reach a point where we decide, Today is the Day that I CHOOSE to no longer be a Victim :)

This is the part of introspection that is necessary for us to make the mental change. It's about learning Detachment.
It's a long involved process, most days it's a daily struggle. For my journey, I started with the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells"(by Kreger) this book is mentioned in PsycheCentral and there is a bulletin board out there that relates to this. Once we learn to stop walking on eggshells, then we are better prepared to continue with the journey. This is not a cure-all, but it's certainly relevant material. ALSO, don't start trying to diagnose your significant other, or any other person with this. This is just a start to a series of self-help in the journey to freedom from feeling on a roller-coaster ride.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/frequently-asked-questions-about-borderline/

More to come....

[Brokenfriend]

Please. Can anyone help me? I need some support,or just a kind word.

[Brokenfriend]

Thank you. I've been on this road since I was about 13,and before,and this condition is very complicated,and real. I'm looking for answers,and trying to find help from people who have the same problem. I can't find anyone. I've been misdiagnosed by professionals,and left in emotional pieces. Thank you very much for trying to help. I appreciate your responce,and may God bless you.

[GladysD]

Thank you. I've been on this road since I was about 13,and before,and this condition is very complicated,and real. I'm looking for answers,and trying to find help from people who have the same problem. I can't find anyone. I've been misdiagnosed by professionals,and left in emotional pieces. Thank you very much for trying to help. I appreciate your responce,and may God bless you.

Hey Brokenfriend---

Sorry to hear you've been left in pieces :(

Have you gone through CBT(Cognitive Behavior Therapy) & DBT(Dalectical Behavior Therapy)? Have you checked out NAMI.org?

Hang in there---this is a good place for support, along with psyche central :)

Blessings to you :):hug::grouphug:

[OneMoreTime]

Please. Can anyone help me? I need some support,or just a kind word.

Sorry, haven't been around for some time... I don't know how old you are now or what kind of medical insurance you have, but the best time to start work on CPTSD (same as PTSD) is AS PROMPTLY AS POSSIBLE.

Two structures in the Limbic System actually decrease in size (but with treatment, this is reversible with treatment). It is changes to the brain that cause us to become STARTLED to an incredible extent, (I was constantly freaking out whenever someone came into a room without my knowing it and my suddenly became aware of their presence), EMOTIONALLY FRAGILE, HAVE OUR CAPACITY FOR THOUGHT & REASONING GO TO HECK IN A HANDBASKET. For around 4 months, my mind could barely function. I could not comprehend complex or technical writing. My capacity to deal with ANY sort of complex situation was virtually zero.

My ability to write sentences without grammatical errors increased ... I also become unable to "choose" the proper word when one of two or more identically pronounced words were in my mind, already selected and ready to be typed. The only way for me to correct such problems is to read back what I have written outloud to myself and carefully scrutinize my word choices.

Basically, not only could I not perform like a person of normal intellect, I was able to only perform at a level of someone with a much lesser IQ & intellect, I was TERRIFIED that I would "never get my mind back".... MENSA had lost a member. But my intellectual functioning finally recovered... but not all at once.

I had ZERO insurance and not sufficient funds (nor the time away from work - long distances involved) to get therapy - plus there was little known about therapy for PTSD back then. My chances of getting any treatment for anything buy depression or anxiety would have been slim. But actually, anti-depressants are important tools in helping with PTSD, as are meds and/or techniques for soothing anxiety. ADs actually help the brain start healing by correcting the chemical balance..

The PRIMARY goal, however, is to get away from the stressful situation. Get your parents to make them let you change to a different class, different school, get social services (talk to your school counselor) to get you out of your home and get your parents/stepparents help to stop the abuse if needed. If you are being bullied about on your job, join an online support group -- then change jobs.

If it is a family member or intimate partner control-freak abuser, then join an online support groups to help learn how to recognize the abuse and learn how to leave safely.

While you can begin recovery while still in the abusive relationship, being able to leave and establish NO CONTACT at all, learning to recognize your shame issues (and coming to realize that there is no need to feel shamed by an abuser or by what has happened in an abusive relationship), and getting in some supportive therapy or environment is the best medicine.

TALK about the abuse and the abuser... Or the CPTSD is due to a criminal action such as a kidnapping, attempted murder, rape or other violent crime, many cities have psychotherapy resources available to you as a victim at no cost. If it is due to anything involved with the military, be in in or out of military action or a military active zone, then the military and then the VA must be there for you.

You have to be your own advocate until you can find advocates for you. Sometimes you will be in a situation where someone reaches out and catches you as you fall, someone who has a clue and can give you the right kind of validation and support, but you generally only find these in targeted online support groups.

OneMoreTime

[GladysD]

Please. Can anyone help me? I need some support,or just a kind word.

I wanted to add; while you are on the search to find a professional to help you, you may want to check out the website: www.coping.org
It's a public service website that was designed to help all kinds of people coping with various issues. I've found many of their topics extremely useful and am still slowly navigating through their site working on my own wellness :hug:

Just know you are not alone on your journey :) Blessings to you!

[Brokenfriend]

It means allot to me that both of you are trying to help me. I don't know what to say right now. Thanks'. I've been on this website for two,or three months now,and have tried to explain my condition on various threads,and no one had replied. A kind moderator has tried to direct me to the proper places. I thank her. A few people in the beginning welcomed me to the forum. I thank them. I have so many things wrong emotionally,it has caused so much misunderstanding. I experience pain in my chest,going under my ribbs from anxiety. I have a pressure in the top of my head. I've had learning difficulties back when they didn't know anything back in the 50's,and 60's. I just turned 55. When I was about 15 years old, I started having panic attacks,and acute anxiety. More so when I went to a Military Academy.Then when I couldn't stand it anymore,I was sent to a private school where I got bullied around. I was so stressed out that I ate my food in the corner of the cafeteria. I didn't want anybody around me because they just picked on me. My whole life has been like this. I've had much therapy,I'm on medication,but I'm not doing well right now. I had a few years that where better,but I seem to be going down hill again. Because of it,I do not have a job right now. I have no insurance. I'm running out of money,and I have tried to get help from Social Security Disability. So far they have declined me. I cannot seem to handle things,as far as pressure goes. I'm starting to not like sunlight again. I have every window covered. I know whats going on,and my IQ is above average,but I'm so sensitive,worried,anxious,feel false guilts,have these self condemnations,depression,and at the same time I feel a numbness as far as having no excitement,or happyness,or peace. I always thought that there was going to be a miracle,or that these problems in therapy where going to subside. Here I am at 55,and no one is taking a interest in me to help me with these problems. Very few understand the depth of these type of problems,and the complexity of them. Most people now are just impatient with this kind of thing. If you meantion it,your a second class citizen to them. What kind of help can I get now that I'm 55? They know more about these things now,but when I was growing up in the sixties,and seventies,I recieved allot of strange looks when I tried to tell people about my problems.I went to a church,and they though that I had demons. In prayer,they punched me in the stomach two times. This was about 15,or 20 years ago, and was very traumatic. It was not a regular church. I don't drink,smoke,or take illegal drugs. I do take the medicine that my doctor prescribes me. Another problem is that I have had to move from the city in which I grew up. This is good,and bad. The good part is that I'm near my sister who is trying to help me. She's trying,but she has no clue as to what I'm going through,but she knows it's real. The bad part is now I'm deep in a rural area,and I feel lost out here. I worked at a Supermarket for 15 years,and now that has gone out of business. I have no place to go,and I'm going through this process of trying to get Social Security Disability,because I'm having a hard time functioning. Now that I'm 55,and there is help available,I cannot seem to get it. If I was younger, I would probably be able to get it,but at 55,I feel like a statistic that is being dodged,and I'm hurting deeply. Whatever this emotional problem is,it's real ,and there have been no easy answers,and I'm getting really tired of it. I have been hurt while trying to get help,and have been bullied by guys even following me home from school. That really had a unfriendly impact on me,and I never knew why they came after me. At that private school that I went to after the military school,3 people tryed to hurt me in my dormatory. One guy came into my room during study hall,and tried to fight me,and we both got punished. I never understood this. I went on to another school,and I would freeze up,and I could hardly talk,move,or reason when people where around sometimes. Sometimes during the day I would feel alright,and then suddenly,I'd feel emotionally shaddered. The doctor says that I also have OCD. That didn't appear, that I know of, until my mid-thirties. I had many sleepless nights. I had these thoughts that where tormenting me,especially when I was in my mid-thirties. It's happening again. I have felt these disrupting tormenting thoughts late at night,and there's is not much I can do about them. When this is happening I sometimes sit up,and know that somethings happening,but I don't know what,and probably never will. Sometimes at the instant that I woke up,I would have a panic attack. That happened mostly 15,or 20 years ago. I could go on,and on explaining some of these things,because they have been going on most of my life.

[GladysD]

Hey, Brokenfriend.

I just wanted to check-in on you and see how your day was going :)

[Brokenfriend]

I'm hanging in there. I hope that you are doing OK. Thank you for asking. When I have written about my condition, My post's have been so lengthy,I hope that I haven't burdened anyone out there.

[GladysD]

I'm hanging in there. I hope that you are doing OK. Thank you for asking. When I have written about my condition, My post's have been so lengthy,I hope that I haven't burdened anyone out there.

I don't mind lengthy posts :) I'm usually limited for time which is why my posts are condensed :)

Glad to hear you are hanging in there. I'm doing alright myself. I've been busy reading and taking care of sick kids. I'm currently reading "Overcoming Panic Disorder"(Weinstock/Gilman) It's for women, but I feel it's a good synopsis of what panic disorder is.
I've also just recently enrolled in a support group. I'm finding that escaping the victim mentality seems to be a 12 step process. I've been using the S.E.A.'s information for rebuiling the broken pieces of my self-esteem. So far, so good :)
Hope your weekend was a well one!
Be Well

[Brokenfriend]

Thank you for your kind message. I hope that your children get well very soon. I've had struggles with self esteem problems also during my life. One book that I will always remember is a book called,"Telling yourself the truth". It had very good input for me. Sometimes the things that we tell ourselves during the day are not true,and are exaggerated,and false. We need to remove some of those words,and replace them with words that are more fitting,and build us up,are help us to keep things in the proper perspective. I think that the book helped me. I cannot remember the name of the arthor. I had many experiences that hurt my self esteem. My illness hurt my ability to process the material that was in front of me in school. I overheard the teachers talking with my parents when I was in elementary school,which didn't help my self esteem. The school systems didn't know anything about learning difficulties associated with biochemical imbalances in the late 1950's. They thought that I was lacking intelligence until I had IQ tests at a Military School,and went through a reading program with the rest of my subjects in the late 1960's. All along the way I had bullies picking on me for some reason. Those problems started to disappear when I took boxing at a boxing gym. I started lifting weights,and then I started taking Karate. I didn't want to hurt anyone,I just wanted to keep them away,and it did. In the last 10 years the manipulative harassment in the work place where I worked got out of hand,and the boss let it happen. I moved,and got a job and landed right smack dab in the middle of another harassment situation. I didn't expect it,and I became very upset,and agitated. The human resources didn't do anything because it was a crew of people who had been there for up to 35 years,and there was one person who had been there 52 years. Allot of the people where related. I was harassed. One day after 8 months of it I resigned. The other place where I worked,I had been there for 14 years before this place. Now I'm very defensive around people,and the anti harassment policies don't work,because they don't care,and I live in a Commonwealth State. When I would go home,I could tell that it was taking a toll on me because of the anxiety build up,in both mind, and body. I don't mind the work. I like the work,and like to do a good job. It's the people that bother me,and for what! They get some sadistic fun out of doing this at work. I'm a good person who is easy to get along with until they start with the head trips,and harassment. Not everyone in a crew is like this,and the others will not stop them because of peer pressure,and there is not much that OSHA will do until someone gets physically hurt. Here I go again,I'm talking to much at one time.

[GladysD]

I'm sorry I haven't been on this board much in the past couple of weeks. Quickly: I say what goes around comes around threefold....just keep that in the back of your mind as you smugly nod and say 'good day.' ;)
I agree, the harassment laws don't truly protect the way that they should. Until the workplace truly retrains their management to create a better work environment for all involved, it will fail to protect those who most need it. Not every person in management should be in those positions, but I digress...

[Brokenfriend]

Thank you GladysD. I have gone to the Bipolar site. I've been receiving help from the people on there. I may have a form of bipolar 2 syndrome also. Time will tell. I hope to have some new tests,and/or Doctors,with social services,because I'm running out of my Trust Fund,and I don't have insurance any more. I'm going back to the bipolar site after this. Thank you for your reply. I think that If managers went to a class where they could at least learn,what is healthy for people emotionally,and to not rivet them with control,and fear to do a job,it would be helpful,and professional,and good for moral. Some of us can work even better with an ounce of ,"Good Job!". That makes me feel like helping a boss with all that I can produce. The other way makes me work though,but takes a toll on me in the long run. Now my anxiety is worse,and I don't work for those people anymore who I worked for 14 years. I was looking to them for leadership,and I was going to work for them with a proper attitude.My conclusion is that the people who I worked for where a family of dysfunctional,and narcissistically motivated people. I forgive them. I wish them well,but I have removed myself from the abuse. It made me disillusioned with peoples true intentions in businesses,and I'm sorry that I saw that side of the human being.

[minymo]

Dear OneMoreTime

I am so excited I cannot thank you enough for your thread. I had seen similarities with PTSD but did not exactly know what it was supposed to be linked to, other than a brief episode of separation and subsequent rejection at age 2. Also I began to feel like and be accused of being a psychiatric hypochondriac. I am very distrustful of self-diagnosis and such for that reason, but I know there have been two extremely happy episodes in my life, one age 3-6 and one age 30-37. I would not have allowed that if I loved misery. And the circumstances were even far from ideal at the time.

The fact that I found something I thoroughly loved to do and was healthy (growing veggies the very old-fashioned way and researching this as well as researching connected area's) and I was rigidly sticking to a rythm for my child were the causes of my happiness. I also had a very supportive friend who I had nearly daily contact with, and the supportiveness was mutual.
There were bad things and bad people in my life too at the time. I just don't like to discuss these here and now.

So, before age 40 people just marvelled at how I took the most horrifying things in stride without seeming to be emotionally affected at all. At age 40 my circumstances changed, I became mildly depressed, was persuaded to take anti-depressants and whammo! I was in an emotional storm, unable to sleep, 24/7 for 2 years. I was then prescribed meds to suppress this emotional storm and for sleeping, and I became less alert and more gullible. So my mom and best friend, who has been trained by her company about interpersonal dynamics, worked hard for two years to gradually make me debase and demean myself and were planning to use against me to take away my kid and my independence in one swift stroke. I did not know but did not like what I was doing so I had myself committed. This took them by surprise, they sprung the trap in a hurry, but I managed to escape with my kid and my independence after two years of crawling through hell on my belly and eating crow and doing WHATEVER IT TOOK 24/7 by sheer will-power to get out from under the scrutiny of the authorities, get this "friend" out of my life (I had to abandon other friends who were being used as messengers after I went NC) and heal the feelings between me and my kid.

This caused a very deep, huge additional trauma, but also it was in a more comprehensible, visible way a repetition of what had happened to me as a kid. In analysing and healing and learning to protect myself and my kid from this "friend", I discovered a lot of similarities in my childhood. I finally realized that I was unequivocally a victim, no matter what any therapist or other person said, and that it was done deliberately, while I was still jumping for the "carrot" of my parent's love, believing if I explained again and again how she made me feel, one day the "misunderstandings" could be healed.

I have been reading up on narcissism, working on the individual SYMPTOMS that I had that led to the host of disorders I was diagnosed with. I took what was useful to me out of every healing approach anyone ever found for any of these symptoms when and how I was ready for it. I stopped scolding myself for having been inert and depressed the last two years, since I decided to drop all the "token goody-two-shoes" activities I was doing, which made me feel I had finally been made to concede I was damaged goods genetically and among sick, dysfunctional people is where I belong. I also felt that I started them under duress, even if I truly enjoyed the volunteer work I was doing, and that my "friend" was standing behind me with a whip still, in spite of NC. I was still terrified of her and the way she kept on watching me to see who I came into contact with, in order to persuade these people to see me in a certain way, treat me in a certain way, harm me and my self-esteem, and convey covert threats to me. I isolated, which everyone says is so bad. But I needed the freedom of fear this gave me, temporarily. I have worked on my fear and my insecurities and my reactions to superficial, short contacts with people, and I feel hardly fearful any more, I am actually being treated better and more like a normal person, I have observed, learned, tried and tested. I am ready to come out bit by bit and doing so, one of the ways is being on this board and a board for adult children of Narcissistic parents.

I was the rare kind of child-abuse victim that named and protested the abuse. I have read that tests show that in mice, the one's that flee or simply undergo socially aggressive behavior from other mice, have less distortion of the amygdala than the one's that fight back. The amygdala can be cured with B-vitamins, especially B12, melatonine, and self-affirmation techniques. Blood-flow towards the amygdala being hampered can augment the chances of problems, like depressions. I am certain this is the case, but the doctor refuses to look into it. So I had physiotherapy for upper back and neck and I sometimes massage the area myself, so the blood has more room to flow in.

I was convinced that what I received was a kind of "embarrasment diagnosis" and that those who scorned me because I kept trying to find a good therapy whereas the two I had were not working, were wrong. They were just annoyed that their help was not helping so it had to be my fault. They instill you with the belief that you have to be completely open and full of trust in your therapist, yet when you behave like that they call you too dependent and say you attribute god-like qualities to them. Isn't that what they are telling you to do? Then when you decide okay, I will think for myself again, you are uncooperative. You only want to complain and you don't want a cure and you love being miserable. If that is so, why am I sitting here? Because you are addicted to therapy and misery. Right. No more pills, no more therapy. I will do it myself, because the therapists were also taken in by this "friend" and my mother. This contributed to my feeling helpless and trapped. There is only one therapist I feel relatively safe with now, who I have contact with for an hour once every three months, just to make sure there is a professional keeping tabs on me in case someone decides once again to accuse me of things in order to make me miserable and take away anything that deeply matters to me.

For a couple of months now, I have been despairing of having lost my resilience, that helped me survive and sometimes even thrive in spite of blow after blow my mother kept dealing me. I only discovered recently that she had been breaking friendships and relationships for me by having one-on-one's with these people or enlisting others to do so for her. She even brought in outsiders to talk to me. I just never realized.

For some reason, the past few weeks I have been struggling upright. It has to do a lot with this board and the other one, I have really made contact with some people here, and it is doing me the world of good. I am today actually somewhat optimistic that maybe, I can pull of the trick of struggling upright one more time, this time staying that way though, because I am learning so much, finally, and finding answers, finally. Thank you all very, very, very much.:grouphug:

[JemmyRey]

thanks for the mention of herman! while i do have some criticisms along the same lines as i do with those who write about `simple' ptsd, her book `trauma and recovery' is excellent and i have tried to get various clinicians/ social workers to read it so we spoke the same language....

i do think there is a tendency to still over-assume wrt pathology.... in her description of symptoms, there is again the presumption that the subject, is, in fact- quite safe (at the time of evaluation), has an adequate support system, access to minimally adequate health care, etc. the consequence being that evaluation of a person not yet safe, ie. as herman describes, literally held captive by some factor or factors truly beyond the individuals control, by these standards seems misleading.

while the connection with a childhood of abuse is easy to see, i think we will eventually recognize a number of variants of `ptsd'. i think there are significant implications for treatment, and support. for instance, considering refugees and those who live as same... and probably have faced both life threatening and repeated traumatic stress, the first steps of re-establishing safety strike me as very different than those who are coping with childhood abuse, as adults.

thinking of all different types of trauma and while it being obvious that all else equal, some (deliberate human cruelty) are generally more devastating than others (lighting strike), there is so much difference among individuals in the significance attached to given incidents, degree of support and resources, etc. that it is very risky to generalize.

for me, the `defining' feature of what i would call `ptsd' of any sort, is crossing some bio-chemical (and or `mechanical', ie. change in size of amygdala, etc.) line `x' of exposure to trauma, where after one seems `programmed' or `conditioned' to experience physiological reaction upon reminders or re-exposure.

ie, the `trigger'.

peace

[Amii]

This is the first time I have been on here.

Im not sure if you are still contributing to this forum 'broken friend'

I too have Complex Post traumatic stress and live a bit like you do. I just wanted to say I understand the feeling of prefering to not have a lot of contact with others..sometimes having to cope with others adds to the detrimental thought patterns, and the feeling in the chest..like its a constriction/ avoidance of feeling/thinking really...UIts good you have your sister in your life she sounds supportive.

Let me know if you are still on this site, and if also how life is today for you?
My life is slowly improving...day by day....

Hope you are in a better space within











I have anxiety,panic,pain in my chest from chronic anxiety,OCD,depression,and now I'm out of work at 55,and cannot stand to many people because I had a dad who was most abusive with his flairs of anger,I was bullied at school,I was bullied at private school,I've been bullied at work over,and over by Bosses,workers,and others who could do their bullying thing. Now I'm 55,cannot stand people at work,I don't want to go outside,the center of my chest is hurting from stress,and my muscles are pulling in that area,and right at this time,I almost wish that I was dead. I'm living out in the country in a family member's old vacant house,and they don't understand what's happening to me. I'm angry,depressed,scared,and don't want to have contact with people,and I react emotionally now to the slightest thing that someone might do that I think is a violation of my honor,integrity,who I am as a person,my work,my hobbies,the way I think,and respond. So far Social Security disability won't help me. I have a sister who is trying to help me,but she has no clue of what I'm going through. Right now I just hate life,and I'm just trying to live day,by day. I have no clue what to do. I know that I'm not crazy. I even got hurt by a pastor. He was young, and inexperienced,and let some missionary punch me in the stomach two times,to expel a demon. They said I was that way because I was on my Doctor's medication,and they could not help me because of it. That was about 20 years ago. Around that time when I woke up,I would immediately have a panic attack. My sister says that she notices that I seem to have a hard time processing my thoughts in the beginning of what I'm doing. That's been true all of my life. I failed two grades even though my IQ is upper average. My chest is hurting deep down now,and there isn't anything that I can do about it. I cannot get much help at all,and this condition isn't getting any better. It seems to be getting slightly worse as the years go by. People in society never have cared much about people who are emotionally hurting,even though we are no longer in the dark ages.They only help what they see if they help at all. It's not fair.

[Amii]

GladysT

I totally agree, we are given labels and are treated as the one causing the problem. The amount of medication that is extended towards our physical bodies with the term recovery attached is terrible. My experience with medication is that its thouroughly detrimental and mind altering. Arent we trying to get our mind back again! Arent we attempting to find a recovery tool!
I believe there is nobody more motivated towards recovering than someone with PTSD.

I know what ITHINKis very important. I know that my mind can make or break my after response to a trigger..(once I have calmed down)

I think it may be nightime over there and day time over here.

May your feet find paths towards light and hope

[Koala77]

Helle Amii, and welcome to NeuroTalk.

I'm not sure if you realise or not that the threads you are posting to are over 6 months old, and the members you're replying to may or may not still frequent this forum.

It would be a shame for your ideas and concerns to get lost amongst an old thread, so may I suggest you start a whole new one of your own? You could tell the others what brought you here, and maybe people who posted these threads before, might be interested in replying to your thread.

Welcome again. I hope we see more of your posts around the board.

[Amii]

Hello and thank you for taking the time to bring that to my attention. How do I find the latest threads please?
Amii:)












Helle Amii, and welcome to NeuroTalk.

I'm not sure if you realise or not that the threads you are posting to are over 6 months old, and the members you're replying to may or may not still frequent this forum.

It would be a shame for your ideas and concerns to get lost amongst an old thread, so may I suggest you start a whole new one of your own? You could tell the others what brought you here, and maybe people who posted these threads before, might be interested in replying to your thread.

Welcome again. I hope we see more of your posts around the board.

[Chemar]

hello Amii

the main board is directly below where the "sticky" threads are for reference

here is the link to the PTSD forum
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum98.html

you can also post an introduction in our new members forum at
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum88.html

welcome to NeuroTalk

[Koala77]

Hello and thank you for taking the time to bring that to my attention. How do I find the latest threads please?
Amii:)

Slightly right of center of the front page in each forum, you'll see the date of the last post in each and every thread posted. That will tell you how long it is since some-one replied to that particular thread.

Don't forget you can always start your own topic, and that may bring in replies from others with similar concerns. Don't be disallussioned if you don't get a reply straight away, as some forums slow down from time to time.

I do hope that's helpful in some way.

[Amii]

Thank you for your quick response...I am finding my way around better now.













Slightly right of center of the front page in each forum, you'll see the date of the last post in each and every thread posted. That will tell you how long it is since some-one replied to that particular thread.

Don't forget you can always start your own topic, and that may bring in replies from others with similar concerns. Don't be disallussioned if you don't get a reply straight away, as some forums slow down from time to time.

I do hope that's helpful in some way.

[Brokenfriend]

This is the first time I have been on here.

Im not sure if you are still contributing to this forum 'broken friend'

I too have Complex Post traumatic stress and live a bit like you do. I just wanted to say I understand the feeling of prefering to not have a lot of contact with others..sometimes having to cope with others adds to the detrimental thought patterns, and the feeling in the chest..like its a constriction/ avoidance of feeling/thinking really...UIts good you have your sister in your life she sounds supportive.

Let me know if you are still on this site, and if also how life is today for you?
My life is slowly improving...day by day....

Hope you are in a better space within

Hi Amii Allot of us talk daily in the Bipolar forum. I haven't been here in quite awhile. Thank you for posting. A friend on here told me you posted here.

Welcome to Neurotalk. I believe you will find help here. This tread was inactive for a long time. Brokenfriend:hug::hug::hug:

[Amii]

Good to get your reply thanks.

You say a lot talk on the Bipolar site..is that people with PTSD?
Amii











Hi Amii Allot of us talk daily in the Bipolar forum. I haven't been here in quite awhile. Thank you for posting. A friend on here told me you posted here.

Welcome to Neurotalk. I believe you will find help here. This tread was inactive for a long time. Brokenfriend:hug::hug::hug:

[Amii]

Thank you for your answer and suggestions
Amii










Slightly right of center of the front page in each forum, you'll see the date of the last post in each and every thread posted. That will tell you how long it is since some-one replied to that particular thread.

Don't forget you can always start your own topic, and that may bring in replies from others with similar concerns. Don't be disallussioned if you don't get a reply straight away, as some forums slow down from time to time.

I do hope that's helpful in some way.

[Brokenfriend]

Good to get your reply thanks.

You say a lot talk on the Bipolar site..is that people with PTSD?
Amii

Yes. People with a whole combination of mental health conditions post there. Mari,and Bizi are on there every night. It's very popular. When I get on Neurotalk,I automatically go to the Bipolar forum. A moderator told me about the bipolar forum,when I wasn't getting replies on some of the other forums.

I've learned that on some of these forums,you may not get any answers at all. Sometimes it takes a month,or more to get a reply on some of the other forums.

So the Bipolar forum is a active forum,and they will welcome you,and try to help you. Brokenfriend:hug::hug::hug:

[aaronflo]

Thanks for your post !!! its a great help