View Full Version : Bryanna,need quick answer
My impressions have been taken so something may have already been made, but I need to know the difference in acrylics and porceline. (Refer to prior message.) Meeting with the head of the pros department and his intern was seemingly a waste of time. They wouldn't be specific, they just said I was getting acrylics. Period. Didn't answer my questions. Are acrylics okay or will they look terrible or what?
Also, the surgeon said I would need to be put to sleep after everyone had agreed that I could do it without the drugs. I'm afraid of being put to sleep because of prior bad surgical experience. He said if we had to do any more than pull the teeth, he'd rather ansthesize(sp) me.
My appointment is on the 15th, but they're going to get me in sooner if they have a cancellation. My time is running out, and that's exactly what I feel like doing!
Anxiously - Jon
Bryanna
04-01-2008, 02:26 PM
Hi Jon,
I feel so bad that you are having to put up with such nonsense. Just because you have chosen to receive your dental care at the dental clinic does not in any way mean that everything should not be fully explained to you prior to consenting to treatment.
The acrylic teeth will be ok ....... that is what is used most often. Porcelain teeth are more costly and only used if the person is willing to spend more for them. The long term wear ability of either material depends on the person's bite and if the appliance fits well into their occlusion then either choice would be ok. The one issue that I would stress to you would be esthetics. If you are concerned about the "natural" appearance of the teeth, then you need to stress that concern making sure that you have been heard. If esthetics is not a major concern for you, then don't worry about it they will look fine. Don't worry about the material of the teeth..... it's the least of what is going on!
As for being put to sleep.......... again, they should have been very specific with this issue and asked you about all of your concerns with it. The IV meds used in dentistry of this type will induce a "twilight" sleep which is different than the heavy general anesthesia meds used in a hospital setting for other types of surgery. The twilight meds allow the patient to become very relaxed and have no recollection of the procedure. Some people do fall asleep, but it is not exactly medication induced it just happens due to being in a very relaxed state. You are still given adequate amounts of novocaine to numb the areas of your mouth that are being worked on. Once the surgery is done, most people are easily alerted and fully conscious within a few minutes. There are no lingering affects of these meds like general anesthesia.
However, whatever your previous issues were with anesthesia of any kind, it is important to convey them to the oral surgeon prior to him giving you the twlight meds in your IV.
Jon, it is so important that you go into this feeling positive about the outcome. The doctors have not been accomodating to your questions and concerns, but that doesn't mean you stop expressing them. If this is the path that you need to take to get your dental work done, then make your thoughts be heard irrelevant of whose toes you may be stepping on. The outcome will be ok....... it's just getting to that point that is unnecessarily stressful. Believe me, what you are experiencing is common practice for dental schools all across the country!! But it will be ok!!!
Please keep us posted on how you are doing! Try not to worry, it will be ok!
Bryanna
My impressions have been taken so something may have already been made, but I need to know the difference in acrylics and porceline. (Refer to prior message.) Meeting with the head of the pros department and his intern was seemingly a waste of time. They wouldn't be specific, they just said I was getting acrylics. Period. Didn't answer my questions. Are acrylics okay or will they look terrible or what?
Also, the surgeon said I would need to be put to sleep after everyone had agreed that I could do it without the drugs. I'm afraid of being put to sleep because of prior bad surgical experience. He said if we had to do any more than pull the teeth, he'd rather ansthesize(sp) me.
My appointment is on the 15th, but they're going to get me in sooner if they have a cancellation. My time is running out, and that's exactly what I feel like doing!
Anxiously - Jon
Bryanna, thank you so very much for hearing me, for your quickness in giving me the information I badly need, and for some reassurance while I'm in this condition.
The aesthetics aren't all that important at my age. If the acrylic will allow me to eat without fear of breakage and pain, it will be acrylics!
I have PN along with other things, so I'm feeling it already when he talks about the possibility of moving a nerve, doing a bone graft, etc. I have no choice in the matter, seemingly, so again, if that's what has to be done, it will be.
Put me on your prayer list along with all the others who are surely there. I'll let you know what happens.
Again, many thanks! Jon
Bryanna
04-02-2008, 04:02 PM
Hi Jon,
Well you are certainly welcome..... glad to be of some help to you!
If I remember correctly, you are having dental implants placed to help retain a denture. There may or may not be a need to place bone graft material. It all depends on how thick and solid your existing bone is in the places they want to put the implants. The condition of the bone can be seen pretty well on the radiographs that they have already taken, so they should have some idea of what they are dealing with. Sometimes, the bone looks a bit different once the incision is made an the area is exposed. Did they talk to you about your options with the bone graft material? There are various types, some are synthetic from things like coral calcium and others are from cadaver sources. Generally, a surgeon prefers to use one over the other, but it depends on the circumstances of the case. If they haven't already discussed this with you, then please ask them to inform you of what they will be using before they start the procedure. Make sure that they know about your full health history and the PN, etc.
You mentioned "moving nerves" during the surgery. Please do not be concerned about this. I really cannot think of any reason why that would occur. They may be concerned about nicking a nerve in the mandible canal of the lower jaw but generally they don't place implants in that area of the mandible. There are lots of nerve fibers everywhere, but they regenerate quickly providing your immune system has the ability to heal them. But don't stress about that at all..... it will be ok!!
I wish you could feel more confident about the work you are having done and about those who are doing it! This is a HUGE undertaking and you should have been treated better. If it's any consolation....... many private practices handle their patients similarly alot of the time. Patients often feel like they are not entitled to ask questions because it takes up too much of the dentists time. Well BS to that!! Take up his time until you feel confident in what is being proposed. Believe me...... no dentist has ever just sat willingly in the dental chair without knowing and understanding what his options were. There are times when the xrays only tell part of the story and the mouth tells another.. so not all treatment is textbook.
If you feel unsure about anything, please write down your questions and take them with you at your next appointment. Tell the dr you have some concerns and want to address them prior to starting anything because you want to go into this with a positive attitude so you come out with a good outcome!
I remember my mother going into heart surgery and saying to her surgeon.... <I have to trust that you've done this before and by now should know what you're doing. However, trade places with me for just one minute.......... pretty scary huh?> He sat down next to her and said....... <what can I do to make you feel more comfortable?> She said, <during the surgery simply reassure me from time to time that I'm doing well.> He said <you got it.> Well, after her surgery he came to me and said... <your mother did remarkably well! She had no blood loss and her arteries grafted beautifully!> He said from now on, he will always reassure his patients during their surgery because he has no doubt that it works! Such a simple thing that can make the world of difference!
Since you cannot seem to rely on your oral surgeon to do too much of any patient sensitivity stuff, you need to reassure yourself and it would be helpful if you started to do that today and every day until this whole ordeal is behind you.
Please keep us informed on how you are doing. I will certainly keep you in my prayers and I know you will be ok!!
Bryanna
Bryanna, thank you so very much for hearing me, for your quickness in giving me the information I badly need, and for some reassurance while I'm in this condition.
The aesthetics aren't all that important at my age. If the acrylic will allow me to eat without fear of breakage and pain, it will be acrylics!
I have PN along with other things, so I'm feeling it already when he talks about the possibility of moving a nerve, doing a bone graft, etc. I have no choice in the matter, seemingly, so again, if that's what has to be done, it will be.
Put me on your prayer list along with all the others who are surely there. I'll let you know what happens.
Again, many thanks! Jon
They recommended 5 implants in lower jaw with permanent bridges between. I asked for ALL implants, and they said that just wasn't necessary, it would take too long and this would work just as well. That was the pros department.
The surgeon offered no options. Said he'd remove bone from my jaw and implant immediately if necessary. That I would not feel pain from where he took it. That part is hard for me to believe since I have PN and no immune system. (Not necessarily from the PN.) That he couldn't tell definitely about the nerve until he got in and saw it. That would be what would take more time. He mentioned a $300 xray which MIGHT show him more, but he didn't recommend it. Said I might just have the extractions and implants to deal with. He just didn't know. The present xray shows the nerve very close to the implant depth, but, again, he won't know until he sees it.
I did write now all my concerns and made an appointment with the pros department. Our discussion did nothing to assure me. The department head is very much in the "power" mode and that along with talking down to some one is not a nice thing to do. I gave him my concerns, he addressed them, told me what was happening and dismissed me quickly. My drive was almost 2 hours each way. Can I put our a contract for him????
When I had the first 6 teeth extracted, I told the surgeon pretty much what your mother did. I was just under local anesthesia, and he did talk to me all through it, told me what he was doing, what else had to be done, etc.,etc. I agree that it helps speaking to them JUST before they start, and I will certainly do it again.
I'm the only one who can deal with my attitude. You've helped so much by giving me some information that they didn't. If I hadn't found you when I did, I'd probably be dealing with a stroke instead of this surgery!
If you thing of anything else relevent, please let me know. I'll keep you posted. Maybe some of this can help someone else in a similar situation.
Jon
Bryanna, I have another catastrophy. Two 'topless' teeth have become infected. They and the other three remaining teeth in my lower jaw are the ones due to be taken out and the inplants put in on Tuesday
The dentistry school is on vacation this week because of the Masters Golf Tournament. I've called and called. No answer.
My GP gave me a shot of antibiotics with followup pills of amoxycillin. That was yesterday, and I still see infection and feel more pain than I should at this point. Is there time enough by Tuesday for this infections to be gone? I know all the problems that can be caused by infection during surgery, but I don't know if there's more I can do to help cure it quicker. I'm taking the antibiotics and I'm rinsing with salt water.
I'm afraid the infection will have subsided to the point where they can't see anything. Doesn't it still lurk around? And, should I call off the surgery if they don't. I'm terrified to put this off any longer, so my inclination is just not to tell them. Also terrified that they'll say it's okay when it isn't.
I'm between a rock and a hard place! Any suggestions, please. Anyone.
Jon
Bryanna
04-11-2008, 09:54 PM
Hi Jon,
I have to be honest with you....... I have so many reservations about people having their dental work done in a dental school and your current situation is one of my biggest issues with it! It is insane to not have someone or at least an answering service covering their phones!! Fortunatley you were able to see your GP......... and amoxicillin was a good choice for oral infection.
Due to many anatomical factors, antibiotics are not going to cure your tooth infections but it can help to temporarily subside your symptoms and it may take a good 48 hours for you to notice some relief. Keep rinsing with the warm salt water about 3 times a day.
It is important that you understand that teeth do not become infected over night. In your case, they have most likely been infected for a very long time but were asymptomatic until now. I'm sure your radiographs show the infection and so the dentists are aware of the situation. Therefore, they had full intentions of placing implants in areas of bone that are not exactly healthy to begin with. Because the infection has started to "show itself" means that it's looking for a place to release the pressure from the inflammation. HOWEVER.... definitely tell them about this flare up and what you are taking.
I'm going to be very straight with you here.........it is not a good idea to place dental implants in an area of bone that is infected. I know some dentists (especially in dental schools) will put them in irrelevant of the condition of the bone, but I also know how high the failure rate is when the bone is not healthy. I think you have every reason to be concerned about proceeding with this surgery on tuesday. But I also think that your dental situation is not going to change for the better which means that the infection will linger and spread as long as those teeth are in your mouth.
If you are going to proceed with the dental implants, then it is better to have them done while you are taking an antibiotic. SO on tuesday, tell the surgeon the latest episode and express your concerns about placing implants in infected bone. I wish I could be there to support you throught this!!! I can only tell you to go with your gut instinct and try not to make decisions out of fear. I know how hard that is to do, but it really is all you can do!
Let us know how you are doing. I try to peek in here at least once a day... sometimes I miss a day or two with my hectic schedule. But keep us in the loop of everything that is going on!
Bryanna
Bryanna, I have another catastrophy. Two 'topless' teeth have become infected. They and the other three remaining teeth in my lower jaw are the ones due to be taken out and the inplants put in on Tuesday
The dentistry school is on vacation this week because of the Masters Golf Tournament. I've called and called. No answer.
My GP gave me a shot of antibiotics with followup pills of amoxycillin. That was yesterday, and I still see infection and feel more pain than I should at this point. Is there time enough by Tuesday for this infections to be gone? I know all the problems that can be caused by infection during surgery, but I don't know if there's more I can do to help cure it quicker. I'm taking the antibiotics and I'm rinsing with salt water.
I'm afraid the infection will have subsided to the point where they can't see anything. Doesn't it still lurk around? And, should I call off the surgery if they don't. I'm terrified to put this off any longer, so my inclination is just not to tell them. Also terrified that they'll say it's okay when it isn't.
I'm between a rock and a hard place! Any suggestions, please. Anyone.
Jon
Bryanna,
I'm trying to repeat the letter I just wrote that somehow didn't get posted.
I think I understand what you are saying and implying. What if I just get the teeth extracted Tuesday and wait till the infection is gone before I get the implants? The lower denture they have al ready should help me eat and speak until the next surgery.
Another thought is to get them to put the implants in the non-infected side. That way, they could screw the tops on them at the time they do the other implants. The infection is in two teeth on the right side. Two front teeth on the right side seem to be fine. There's one back tooth on the left side way back that I'm using to chew on.
I'm not such a pig, but I have a bad stomach condition that has become much worse since I can't chew well and my diet is limited - as you can imagine. These dentists have my condition and my medications on their computer, but I don't think they consider anything but my mouth. I think I will have to be MORE than pro-active. You're a life-saver, Bryanna! Hopefully, I can be of help to you in other fields.
Jon
Bryanna
04-13-2008, 11:03 PM
Hi Jon,
I think you should discuss your concerns about placing implants in infected bone with the oral surgeon on tuesday. Let him know without any hesitancy that you do not want to risk implant failure or serious complications since the bone is not completely healthy. Ask for his opinion on what he thinks would be in your best "long term" interest....... have the teeth extracted now and let the areas heal before placing the implants OR proceed with some of the implants OR proceed with the original plan?
It is hard for me to give you more information than this because I have not seen your xrays or your mouth clinically. But without any doubt, I do know that you have valid reasons to be very concerned about your long term dental health and how it is affecting your overall well being.
I know you are having lots of difficulty eating...... it is almost impossible to chew food without teeth!! But I have to tell you....... lower dentures (without the implants) are not easy to eat with because they move around alot. Implant retained dentures don't move at all.
Jon, you are going to have to trust the oral surgeons recommendations. Just be sure to express your concerns to him!
Let us know how you make out on tuesday! I'll be thinking about you ~'.'~
Bryanna
Bryanna,
I'm trying to repeat the letter I just wrote that somehow didn't get posted.
I think I understand what you are saying and implying. What if I just get the teeth extracted Tuesday and wait till the infection is gone before I get the implants? The lower denture they have al ready should help me eat and speak until the next surgery.
Another thought is to get them to put the implants in the non-infected side. That way, they could screw the tops on them at the time they do the other implants. The infection is in two teeth on the right side. Two front teeth on the right side seem to be fine. There's one back tooth on the left side way back that I'm using to chew on.
I'm not such a pig, but I have a bad stomach condition that has become much worse since I can't chew well and my diet is limited - as you can imagine. These dentists have my condition and my medications on their computer, but I don't think they consider anything but my mouth. I think I will have to be MORE than pro-active. You're a life-saver, Bryanna! Hopefully, I can be of help to you in other fields.
Jon
Well, here's what happened today. Arrived on time for 9am appointment.
Was given 5 pages to fill out before I had surgery. I'd left my glasses ( my daughter drove me ) so I hadn't finished them when they called me. Put my dentist's name in appropriate places, left some places unchecked because I didn't understand them - in other words, working very slowly. They took me to a room and a strange man introduces himself as Dr. X. He says he's going to do the surgery. I tell him Dr. Y is doing it. He says Dr. Y has been called to the hospital for an emergency. My daughter and I asked him lots of questions. He excused himself and came back with Dr. Y who basically said it couldn't be helped - that Dr. X could do it or we could try another day.
By this time, Dr. X is pouting and says he can't do it now we've wasted too much time. That we can make another appointment or it may be that some time will open this afternoon if we want to wait. We waited.
We'd told him my concerns. He says he was told what to do and if I want to change it, he just can't do it. That he wants to know what he's expected to do when he starts. I'm ready to die rather than go home with a mouthful of infected teeth. Briefly, he removed my lower teeth, put in 4 of the planned 5 inplants, had me xrayed and gave me appointment for next week.
He saw bad bone at the 5th site but decided he'd try it anyway. He tried to screw the inplant in 4 times. It came out on my tongue side. He put some "ground bone" in the cavity and around all the other ones that were already in, stitched them up and said I'd done well.
Some other things happened. The nurse who started with him disappeared in less than an hour. He had to pull, drill and cut pieces from the last tooth to get in out. This is when the nurse left and a man in a green surgical outfit took her place until all this was over. Total time for surgery -almost 5 hours.
The man in green did the xray. He poked my mouth, teeth and skin more than I've ever been poked by an assistant. He couldn't keep the water and blood even almost out of my mouth. I felt like I was choking. Dr. X says to just swallow it. The man in green turns out to be a junior at the local university majoring in biology - but has no credentials in any medical field.
I've never had any trouble with a dentist numbing me a little more if I asked. I asked Dr. X at least 10 times because every procedure was hurting more and more. He numbed me 3 times. Each time I asked, he said it was only going to be a little bit longer. The last 4 stitches, I felt everything.
Part of me wants to sue the pants off the place so they won't treat anyone else like this. My other part feels so insignificant that I can't imagine anyone treating me with kindness. Powerless to do anything but continue down this path.
More things happened, but I've already written too much. LONG, LONG VENT! No need to answer. Thanks for listening again.
Jon
Written yesterday. Sent today.
Bryanna
04-16-2008, 07:55 PM
Jon,
What an awful experience! Never, ever should this happen to anyone for any reason. It is unexcusable! Never, ever should the patient (especially an elderly patient) be made to feel like they are being pushed into treatment with someone that they don't even know. I think you should write the head of the department and the dean of the school and tell them of your experience. They may do nothing, but your letter will stay on record and they will at least know that you are a very unhappy patient of that clinic. Who the hell is Dr X?? Was he a student??
It sounds like you were awake for the whole procedure...... I thought they were going to give you some light sedation? You should not have felt a thing and it is ridiculous to perform oral surgery and implants without an assistant there to keep the patient comfortable and the area clear and free of bacteria. Implants cannot become contaminated by anything, including saliva. I also cannot beleive that he kept trying to place the implant in the infected bone. What an idiot!!
How is your pain level today? Did they place the immediate lower denture over the implants? Did they prescribe additional antibiotics for you?
Please don't feel powerless or insignificant! You have every right to be upset over what you have endured. I hate to admit this but, your situation is so common in many dental schools and many dental offices. I have refused to work in such environments because it is wrong to strong arm a patient just because we can!!
Please feel free to vent the rest of the story. It may help you to get it out and it may just help someone else reading this. We are hear to listen ~'.'~
Bryanna
Well, here's what happened today. Arrived on time for 9am appointment.
Was given 5 pages to fill out before I had surgery. I'd left my glasses ( my daughter drove me ) so I hadn't finished them when they called me. Put my dentist's name in appropriate places, left some places unchecked because I didn't understand them - in other words, working very slowly. They took me to a room and a strange man introduces himself as Dr. X. He says he's going to do the surgery. I tell him Dr. Y is doing it. He says Dr. Y has been called to the hospital for an emergency. My daughter and I asked him lots of questions. He excused himself and came back with Dr. Y who basically said it couldn't be helped - that Dr. X could do it or we could try another day.
By this time, Dr. X is pouting and says he can't do it now we've wasted too much time. That we can make another appointment or it may be that some time will open this afternoon if we want to wait. We waited.
We'd told him my concerns. He says he was told what to do and if I want to change it, he just can't do it. That he wants to know what he's expected to do when he starts. I'm ready to die rather than go home with a mouthful of infected teeth. Briefly, he removed my lower teeth, put in 4 of the planned 5 inplants, had me xrayed and gave me appointment for next week.
He saw bad bone at the 5th site but decided he'd try it anyway. He tried to screw the inplant in 4 times. It came out on my tongue side. He put some "ground bone" in the cavity and around all the other ones that were already in, stitched them up and said I'd done well.
Some other things happened. The nurse who started with him disappeared in less than an hour. He had to pull, drill and cut pieces from the last tooth to get in out. This is when the nurse left and a man in a green surgical outfit took her place until all this was over. Total time for surgery -almost 5 hours.
The man in green did the xray. He poked my mouth, teeth and skin more than I've ever been poked by an assistant. He couldn't keep the water and blood even almost out of my mouth. I felt like I was choking. Dr. X says to just swallow it. The man in green turns out to be a junior at the local university majoring in biology - but has no credentials in any medical field.
I've never had any trouble with a dentist numbing me a little more if I asked. I asked Dr. X at least 10 times because every procedure was hurting more and more. He numbed me 3 times. Each time I asked, he said it was only going to be a little bit longer. The last 4 stitches, I felt everything.
Part of me wants to sue the pants off the place so they won't treat anyone else like this. My other part feels so insignificant that I can't imagine anyone treating me with kindness. Powerless to do anything but continue down this path.
More things happened, but I've already written too much. LONG, LONG VENT! No need to answer. Thanks for listening again.
Jon
Written yesterday. Sent today.
Jon. since today is the 17th I am assuming you had out your teeth by now. How did it go??
I had 2 out last month, they were in front, top, capped and I think they were infected, the roots I mean. I am having a bit of pain yet in that area but it is subsiding slowly. I had the 2 teeth added to my partial that day so I had them a few days after. As far as implants, I am considering it BUT since it will be 4 upper front, I KNOW it's going to involve MUCH pain since the nerves go directly to those 4 front teeth. I had the other two out years ago. When I inquired about implants, they told me the teeth had to be gone for months and gum totally healed BEFORE they do them. I could have had 2 done a few years ago but I figured I'd wait and have all 4 done at the same time so they'd TOTALLY match. Now I'm not so sure after all the reading I have done about them. I would LOVE so much to have the 4 back permanently. It's such a psychological issue when you lose your front teeth. I have stopped dating or even Thinking about it. I stay away from people as much as possible. Losing my front teeth has been a terrible blow to my self esteem, which wasn't doing so well to begin with. :(
OK, sorry Jon, I didn't read this before I posted:
Well, here's what happened today. Arrived on time for 9am appointment.
Was given 5 pages to fill out before I had surgery. I'd left my glasses ( my daughter drove me ) so I hadn't finished them when they called me. Put my dentist's name in appropriate places, left some places unchecked because I didn't understand them - in other words, working very slowly. They took me to a room and a strange man introduces himself as Dr. X. He says he's going to do the surgery. I tell him Dr. Y is doing it. He says Dr. Y has been called to the hospital for an emergency. My daughter and I asked him lots of questions. He excused himself and came back with Dr. Y who basically said it couldn't be helped - that Dr. X could do it or we could try another day.
By this time, Dr. X is pouting and says he can't do it now we've wasted too much time. That we can make another appointment or it may be that some time will open this afternoon if we want to wait. We waited.
We'd told him my concerns. He says he was told what to do and if I want to change it, he just can't do it. That he wants to know what he's expected to do when he starts. I'm ready to die rather than go home with a mouthful of infected teeth. Briefly, he removed my lower teeth, put in 4 of the planned 5 inplants, had me xrayed and gave me appointment for next week.
He saw bad bone at the 5th site but decided he'd try it anyway. He tried to screw the inplant in 4 times. It came out on my tongue side. He put some "ground bone" in the cavity and around all the other ones that were already in, stitched them up and said I'd done well.
Some other things happened. The nurse who started with him disappeared in less than an hour. He had to pull, drill and cut pieces from the last tooth to get in out. This is when the nurse left and a man in a green surgical outfit took her place until all this was over. Total time for surgery -almost 5 hours.
The man in green did the xray. He poked my mouth, teeth and skin more than I've ever been poked by an assistant. He couldn't keep the water and blood even almost out of my mouth. I felt like I was choking. Dr. X says to just swallow it. The man in green turns out to be a junior at the local university majoring in biology - but has no credentials in any medical field.
I've never had any trouble with a dentist numbing me a little more if I asked. I asked Dr. X at least 10 times because every procedure was hurting more and more. He numbed me 3 times. Each time I asked, he said it was only going to be a little bit longer. The last 4 stitches, I felt everything.
Part of me wants to sue the pants off the place so they won't treat anyone else like this. My other part feels so insignificant that I can't imagine anyone treating me with kindness. Powerless to do anything but continue down this path.
More things happened, but I've already written too much. LONG, LONG VENT! No need to answer. Thanks for listening again.
Jon
Written yesterday. Sent today.
Yea, that sounds like a Nighmare alright. BUT, If you went to an Insurance Fueled Dental Clinic, that's what you get. I went to one 5 times, no 6, TRYING to get them to pull ONE tooth and they gave me the runaround . I had to pay someone each time to bring me and each time they took my BP and said "Nope, it's too high, we can't pull it today." I was so Mad I will NEVER go back there again. I have had that tooth OUT and a few more since and never had a bleeding problem. I really don't believe it. I think It's just some kind of Scam to get you to keep coming back so they can charge insurance JUST for the visit. Milk the situation, if you know what I mean.
Bryanna,
Thanks, I do need to vent more and more. But to answer your questions:
I don't feel I can effectively write to the dean or anyone there. I'll get bogged down in details. And I still have to go back Thursday. Dr. X is the head of the surgical department. He leaves in June, and Dr Y takes his place.
X is the one who told me he just would not do the implants without "relaxing" me because it was too long. As he left for his emergency, the last thing he told Y was not to try any implant where the bone didn't look good. When Y decided he would operate, he said his anesthetic team had gone because I took too long to read all those papers and ask questions. I would have been okay with that if he's just deadened me enough. The assistant who drove me nuts was the college student (not dental school) who worked there and also took the final xray. He wasn't trained or accredited in anything.
Pros looked in and gave them the implants and a plan(?). When I asked about the denture, everyone just brushed me off -all in their own way.
Do you have any idea what the "bone" stuff was? They'd all told me the only option I had was my own bone graft. He dusted it in all the inplants but that was after he'd sutured them. Except for the one he goofed on. I can feel it in places on top of my gum. Tried to pull them off, but it hurt too much.
Next Thursday I'm to meet with Y to check on the healing. Then upstairs to pros for - I don't know what. Presumably, to put in denture? Why did they insist that it had to be placed immediately after surgery? There are so many inconsistent orders and explanations through the whole thing.
They explained strongly why they could not put any implants in without doing all of them as I'd suggested. Now, since they put the last one in at the wrong angle , how are they going to deal with that? And, you know that if I complain to Y about all this, he'll brush it off again. Plus, he'll probably be the one to continue to "fix" it. I dread it - I dread it....
All I can see is more time, more pain, more occlusion problems, more money, etc., etc.
After telling me they saw no sign of infection before or after, they prescribed more amoxycillin. All the while saying that I really didn't need it!
Thank God for my GP here who gave it to me beforehand. The lortab they gave me for pain wasn't as strong as what I have to take daily, so I took mine. Y said I shouldn't need anything stronger, so I took my own demerol, too. That's not fair to my GP. He'll make it up for me if I need it, but he's very uneasy about pain meds, and this shouldn't be his problem.
I wish I could somehow get to someone with authority who would listen to both sides. Nobody is overseeing this and correcting what is wrong. It's disgraceful for the dental school to offer services that aren't supervised, seemingly. It's very awkward to complain about things just before the one who did these things starts to work on you again.
Wow! Another long, long one.
Bryanna
04-18-2008, 11:21 PM
Hi Jon,
You have not been treated fairly at all. You have been told things that have not happened and had things done to you that were not explained fully. I can hear your frustrations and see that you are a bit confused about what is going on. ALL understandable on your part and so truly unfortunate!!
The first thing I want to stress to you is to not try to pull anything off or from the surgical sites. If they used bone graft material, it was placed around the implant prior to the suturing. Sometimes a collagen plug or material is placed over the graft and under the suture. This is what you may be trying to pull out...... don't!! Sometimes the top of the implant itself is sticking out of the gum and again this should be left alone. You should have been given strict post operative instructions and obviously you weren't.
I cannot beleive that you were told you would be having light sedation and without any discussion with you, the sedation is cancelled because you took too long filling out the paperwork?? The anesthesiology team is there in the clinic all the time and they should have followed through with the original plan. That whole thing is just BS!
The college student who assisted had no business being there chairside. If he took xrays on you and he is not licensed by that state to take xrays then he took them illegally. More craziness!
When you see Dr Y next week, it would behoove you to let him know how unhappy you are with the way you were treated. I know you are trying to be civil and not make any waves, but Jon, you have been mistreated and you have alot of dental work yet to be done. I would hate to think that this is how things are going to continue.
I would also question Dr Y about the placement of that 5th implant in the unhealthy bone and if he thinks the angle will be ok. Ask him what type of bone graft material was used so you have it for your own records.
I wish I could help you out with all of this. I feel you have not been treated properly and it upsets me to think that they will get away with it.
I recently had a situation with my adult daughter at a dental school clinic in NYC. She was injured at a softball game and ended up in their ER dept. The CT scan confirmed that she had a fractured jaw and the oral surgeon immediately gave her two options. Either perform surgery placing screws in her jaw or wire her jaw shut. It's a GOOD THING I am in this business and know what the hell I am talking about because both of those treatment options would have been the worst thing to do in her case because the bone had not displaced, it was fractured but intact. Of course the surgeon and I went round and round for awhile but he agreed to release her on observation. Well, that was 4 weeks ago and she has done great!!! She has seen the oral surgeon once a week since then and the scans show that her bone is healing fine and she has no residual problems! But can you imagine if I had not been there??????????? Unbelievable!!
Jon, please take good care of yourself and please heal well in spite of all that you have been through! Please keep in touch and let us know how you are doing.
Bryanna
Bryanna,
Thanks, I do need to vent more and more. But to answer your questions:
I don't feel I can effectively write to the dean or anyone there. I'll get bogged down in details. And I still have to go back Thursday. Dr. X is the head of the surgical department. He leaves in June, and Dr Y takes his place.
X is the one who told me he just would not do the implants without "relaxing" me because it was too long. As he left for his emergency, the last thing he told Y was not to try any implant where the bone didn't look good. When Y decided he would operate, he said his anesthetic team had gone because I took too long to read all those papers and ask questions. I would have been okay with that if he's just deadened me enough. The assistant who drove me nuts was the college student (not dental school) who worked there and also took the final xray. He wasn't trained or accredited in anything.
Pros looked in and gave them the implants and a plan(?). When I asked about the denture, everyone just brushed me off -all in their own way.
Do you have any idea what the "bone" stuff was? They'd all told me the only option I had was my own bone graft. He dusted it in all the inplants but that was after he'd sutured them. Except for the one he goofed on. I can feel it in places on top of my gum. Tried to pull them off, but it hurt too much.
Next Thursday I'm to meet with Y to check on the healing. Then upstairs to pros for - I don't know what. Presumably, to put in denture? Why did they insist that it had to be placed immediately after surgery? There are so many inconsistent orders and explanations through the whole thing.
They explained strongly why they could not put any implants in without doing all of them as I'd suggested. Now, since they put the last one in at the wrong angle , how are they going to deal with that? And, you know that if I complain to Y about all this, he'll brush it off again. Plus, he'll probably be the one to continue to "fix" it. I dread it - I dread it....
All I can see is more time, more pain, more occlusion problems, more money, etc., etc.
After telling me they saw no sign of infection before or after, they prescribed more amoxycillin. All the while saying that I really didn't need it!
Thank God for my GP here who gave it to me beforehand. The lortab they gave me for pain wasn't as strong as what I have to take daily, so I took mine. Y said I shouldn't need anything stronger, so I took my own demerol, too. That's not fair to my GP. He'll make it up for me if I need it, but he's very uneasy about pain meds, and this shouldn't be his problem.
I wish I could somehow get to someone with authority who would listen to both sides. Nobody is overseeing this and correcting what is wrong. It's disgraceful for the dental school to offer services that aren't supervised, seemingly. It's very awkward to complain about things just before the one who did these things starts to work on you again.
Wow! Another long, long one.
Bryanna, let me first assure you that I only kept feeling that stuff on top with my tongue. I didn't attempt to take it out. I did give it a lot of thought, though. It's still the same, but I now feel it's part of the suture. I've had plenty of sutures before, so I know how they are, but this is different. I'll let you know what it turns out to be.
On the positive side, I finally found a patient advocate at the dental school. Yesterday I talked with her and she said she'd talk to her boss (asst., patient services) and he or she will call me back. I found her by a fluke. She's not listed anywhere that I've looked on the internet. I couldn't keep her long enough to tell her everything, so I have no idea unless someone calls whether or not this did any good.
Thursday I am to see pros and surgery. Presumably, pros will put in the temporary denture. Presumably, surgery will glance in my mouth. I'm not sure what I'm going for unless for that.
If I've not had a call back from advocacy, I'm in deeper trouble. It'll mean they're like everyone else there. Also, I'll be seeing this surgeon who - incidentally - was not in my files that she pulled up. The name of the one in charge was one I'd never heard of, and I could only remember that the one who operated had a-sort of- hispanic name and his first name was Martin.
Again, I'm trying to push myself into a positive frame of mind, but it's getting harder when things I've worried about turn out to be worse.
Another thing is that this week everyone is getting ready for homecoming which is next week. You may remember that they closed for the week of the Masters Golf Tournament. The pros department was closed for the first two week of March, most of December, the month of July last year, and that's just my experience. I really don't think they do much business.
The way I got to speak to anyone yesterday was by calling the Dean. She wasn't available for a patient because of these homecoming activities. I was switched over to the patient services office. The head of it wasn't there. The only one there available was this patient advocate.
The dental school operates under the medical school. Do you happen to know how this state if rated professionally for these schools? A little late, but I'd like to know.
Your daughter was SO lucky you were there. Otherwise, she might be the subject of yet another letter here. Hope she continues to do well.
My pain isn't so bad now. Most of the swelling is down. The bruising continues to change colors. Most of the pain left is on the top edge of the gum. It still hurts to touch, so I dread the dentures being put on.
Tomorrow - Thursday - is my next appointment and the advocate still hadn't called, so I just called her this afternoon. She still hadn't seen anyone or talked to anyone. I added a little more information, and she said she'd call me back this afternoon after she's talked to someone. Sounds like the same old go-around. Seems I have no choice.
Bryanna
04-23-2008, 06:32 PM
Hi Jon,
You did the RIGHT thing by calling the patient advocate! I can assure you that she has heard similar stories before, no doubt about it. I would press her to do something on your behalf which in a nutshell is.......... stop the merry go round and get some clear answers on what your treatment plan is and who is doing what. You can also contact the state dental board and speak to someone there about filing a formal complaint. All complaints are investigated and I have no doubt that most (if not all) dental school clinics have been investigated from time to time. As I've mentioned to you before, your situation is more common than the consumer realizes. People generally get so disgusted that they don't follow through with the treatment or they just follow along blindly feeling helpless.......... sound familiar??
I do know the reputation of some dental schools but I don't know what state the dental school is in that you went to. You can pm me that information if you don't want to make it public and I can see what I can find out for you.
Let us know how your appointment goes tomorrow and keep us informed on the patient advocate situation as well.
I am SO proud of you for taking a stand on this........ even if nothing positive comes of it......... YOU did the right thing!!!!
Bryanna
Tomorrow - Thursday - is my next appointment and the advocate still hadn't called, so I just called her this afternoon. She still hadn't seen anyone or talked to anyone. I added a little more information, and she said she'd call me back this afternoon after she's talked to someone. Sounds like the same old go-around. Seems I have no choice.
Bryanna, again I'm having to rewrite because this reply got lost.
When I was in pros last week (refer to pm), Dr. pros head said I could have an upper bridge out, the anchor teeth pulled, implants put in and the entire bridge put back in the same day. That Dr. intern could do all that, that I didn't have to do it in surgery. It sounded good to me, we were being pushed out so they could go to lunch and I obviously wasn't thinking well.
Some time ago I'd asked surgery why we couldn't use this all-in-one precedure that I'd read about in Mayo's articles. They said they thought this way was best because we'd know the implants had been accepted before we screwed on the tops.
I don't know which procedure is best, but I do know that I don't want Dr. pros intern to do any surgery on me. He's likely to have never done this procedure, whereas that's all that surgery does. If I bring this up now, my appointment will get put off till who knows when.
My advocate told me Friday when I called her to thank her that her report probably wouldn't be read this week because of Homecoming. That puts me going to more surgery that could be worse than the last. If Homecoming wasn't turned into a weeks's holiday, there'd be time for me to express all this to her. Now I'm stressing at surgery that could be worse than last time.
I've learned the chain-of-command now, but if I call anyone's office this week, they're almost for sure going to be unavailable and I'll be switched over to someone who'll have to wait to get instructions from another someone. This says to me that I'm sunk again. ANY ideas?
Wiix, sorry I'm so late replying to you. Glad your two teeth are done now, but if you think that the roots were infected, I'm very concerned. I've learned here that root canals are not the way to go, so that leaves nothing but implants. If you've been following this thread, you know how much Bryanna has taught me and everyone. We're very lucky to have her give us so much of her time and understanding.
I have no insurance, so I'm not having that to deal with. I wish I did have something to help with the costs, but at 77, there're not people knocking down my door trying to sell it to me. I'm a lost cause, so I went to the state dental school, and that's a mess, too.
At 35, I had my 4 upper front teeth pulled and a bridge put it. Ten years later, I had it taken out and another put in because the top half of a front (false) tooth on the bridge had broken. I wasn't given options. This bridge is still in, but the same thing has kept on happening. Same tooth keeps breaking off. Now, they keep making money by manually filling in the gap. Sometimes it lasts for a year or so. Other times, it's broken within a few days. I had the same dentist until I had an emergency root canal and he was out of the country. The root canals I had within about 4 or 5 years is another horror story for another time.
Seems impossible to imagine people unquestionably dragging out procedures just for more money when it hurts people so much. From what you've talked about, I was lucky to have had my front teeth gone for so long. Maybe that will be something that won't hurt so much when or if they start the uppers.
A month is a long time to be hurting actively from your surgery. Mine was 3 weeks ago, and the pain was gone by last week. It hurts when my upper teeth touch the bottom gums, but the REAL pain hurt 2 days, then lessened each day after that.
I have my next surgery next week and my blood pressure is off the charts worrying about what they'll be doing. Thanks so much for writing. Please keep in touch about how you're doing and what decisions you've made.
Jon
Bryanna, this is an attempt to get back into this thread instead of a PM. But I'm answering your PM. Okay? Or does it matter?
First, as to the failed implant... I was told that I had to wait approx. 3 months for the bone to do its thing - then the implant would be put in again, then 3 months later the whole thing happens. That is, there will be a full lower jaw of bridges anchored by 5 implants.
Second, as to the plan for the upper dentures... I was told ( I think ) that the teeth anchoring the upper front bridge will be replaced with implants. I'm not sure at this point because intern and head have told me different things. I think I'm partly responsible for the uncertainty because I expressed concern with their original plan of removing the bridge, filling a cavity in one of the anchor teeth, then putting a new bridge in using original teeth for anchors.
My concern is long term. What if 2 or 20 years from now, I have one of those teeth go bad - then the whole thing will have to be done over. Makes more sense to me to put the implants in now for the anchor teeth of the bridge.
Whatever they're planning, they're planning on doing it at 9 a.m. Monday, and it's going to take 3 or 4 hours. Also, pros is planning to do it all and I told them long ago that I wanted surgery to do all extractions and implants.
Am I clear as mud? It's too late to get the advocate to go with me now. And, if she appeared, Dr. head of pros would probably throw a fit and throw me out at the same time. It could be avoided if advocate hasgiven her report to her boss who might have passed it on up to boss of both pros and surgery.
I'd like to start again with the dean of the dental school and get her to understand the precious time it has cost me to get just this far. Then to get her to understand the other things that have happened.
Status quo: I have appr. Monday. I have to deal with whatever events occur then because for the last 2 weeks, the whole school has been consumed with homecoming events. I'll probably find that this coming week has been declared "rest" week because everyone's tired after the past 2 weeks.
Bryanna
05-02-2008, 10:21 PM
Hi Jon,
Ok...let's see if I am understanding you correctly.
#1. 5 implants were placed in the lower jaw and one failed.
#2. The failed implant is to be replaced within a 3 month period. When is that?
#3. The 5 lower implants are going to hold a bridge or a denture??
#4.Your existing upper bridge will be removed and the anchor teeth will be extracted and replaced by implants that will hold a new bridge or denture?
#5. Originally you were told you would be wearing temporary dentures through the implant healing phase, but no one could seem to fit the dentures in properly, correct? So you currently have no teeth on the bottom and just an old bridge on the top front?
#6. Do you currently have any back teeth on either arch? If not, are there plans to replace those teeth??
Jon, there is always a concern about an "anchor" tooth getting decayed or a dental implant "anchor" tooth failing. Any time an anchor tooth or implant has a problem, it affects the entire bridge or denture that is attached to it. That's why natural anchor teeth need to be very healthy to begin with or dental implants used as anchor teeth need to be placed in solid healthy bone.
Depending on your case, if an anchor goes bad, you may or may not have to do the entire bridge or denture all over again. It depends if there are other anchors near the one that failed.
The prostho department is capable of doing extractions, implants and full restoration. It's not so much a matter of which department does what, it's how skilled the dentist is that is doing the work. However, no one seems to have given you any logical answer as to why the prostho dept is doing everything unless it just fits better into their schedule?? Has the oral surgery department turned you over to the prostho dept because of a change in treatment plan?
The patient advocate is someone who acts as a mediator between the clinicians and the patient in cases like yours where the communication has not been clear due to the differing of "professional" opinions by the clinicians.
I feel terrible that you are going in there on monday unsure of what is going to happen. Even under the best of circumstances where the communication was good, the patient may still have some questions about what is going to take place because it's all so complicated especially if the treatment plan has changed at all.
Jon, if you want to know what they are doing before they do it....... ask them. Not in a threatening or doubting way, but more curious and concerned. If they get impatient with you, nicely tell them you don't mean to be annoying with your questions, but you would appreciate knowing what they have planned for you since the treatment plan has changed so many times. Legally, they have to inform you and get your permission prior to performing any type of dental procedure. You are a patient there, not a guinea pig.
Bryanna
Bryanna, this is an attempt to get back into this thread instead of a PM. But I'm answering your PM. Okay? Or does it matter?
First, as to the failed implant... I was told that I had to wait approx. 3 months for the bone to do its thing - then the implant would be put in again, then 3 months later the whole thing happens. That is, there will be a full lower jaw of bridges anchored by 5 implants.
Second, as to the plan for the upper dentures... I was told ( I think ) that the teeth anchoring the upper front bridge will be replaced with implants. I'm not sure at this point because intern and head have told me different things. I think I'm partly responsible for the uncertainty because I expressed concern with their original plan of removing the bridge, filling a cavity in one of the anchor teeth, then putting a new bridge in using original teeth for anchors.
My concern is long term. What if 2 or 20 years from now, I have one of those teeth go bad - then the whole thing will have to be done over. Makes more sense to me to put the implants in now for the anchor teeth of the bridge.
Whatever they're planning, they're planning on doing it at 9 a.m. Monday, and it's going to take 3 or 4 hours. Also, pros is planning to do it all and I told them long ago that I wanted surgery to do all extractions and implants.
Am I clear as mud? It's too late to get the advocate to go with me now. And, if she appeared, Dr. head of pros would probably throw a fit and throw me out at the same time. It could be avoided if advocate hasgiven her report to her boss who might have passed it on up to boss of both pros and surgery.
I'd like to start again with the dean of the dental school and get her to understand the precious time it has cost me to get just this far. Then to get her to understand the other things that have happened.
Status quo: I have appr. Monday. I have to deal with whatever events occur then because for the last 2 weeks, the whole school has been consumed with homecoming events. I'll probably find that this coming week has been declared "rest" week because everyone's tired after the past 2 weeks.
Hi, Bryanna. Now tell me if I'm answering you clearly.
#1. Right
#2. Should be July.
#3. Bridge
#4. Bridge
#5. No teeth on bottom. 6 teeth in front on bridge. Then, not involved at
all with bridge, there is 1 capped tooth on each side of bridge. Total: 8 upper teeth. No bottom teeth.
#6. Don't know the proper definition of arch unless you're referring to the total number of teeth making an arch in the upper and the lower set. Anyway, #5 tells you all I've got anyway.
The pros department might have people capable of all this, but my intern is in his first term in any department after his graduation. He has to do this. It isn't what he's interested in practicing. I asked him when I met him. The interns in surgery -even in first term - do surgery every day.
On your last paragraph... refer to letter where I wrote that they gave me about 4 pages of very small print to read and sign when I signed in for surgery on April 15. They do that in any kind of surgery, and you have to sign it or they won't do surgery. The whole idea is that you hold them blameless for basically anything that happens. There's no option, so you sign. Unless you sue them, you're held to that.
I agree with the medical profession that there are too many law suits, but I also agree with the legal profession that law suits seem to be the only way for a patient to be heard when wrong is done. The patient pays twice when this happens.
Jon
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