Where pn-ers are posting

[LizaJane]

I signed onto OBT yesterday, as was stunned to find how many of the old pn forum were posting there. I became concerned that to follow what's going on with my old friends, and help new ones, I'd have to check both places daily, and actually belong to OBT, which I'm loathe to do.

I'm stunned at how many folk post there. John took $10,000 from us and used it to fund a retreat for Second Lifers, who were acting as moderators. He used this money to "buy land" in the virtual world, and to pay rent. He leveraged us so he could sell himself as an expert at maintaining online communities, when, in fact, he had no interest in our community once he'd gotten his goal---a good-paying gig at Second Life. He refuses to make the financials of his non-profit available, which he is ethically bound to do. And he brags all over the web at how braintalk has helped fund his island at Second Life and shown him as a leader in online community.

Here we are with DocJohn being transparent, real, warm and honest. Why are people going back to a forum which has already failed us, run by someone who has been dishonest, callus, and dictatorial? I do not get it.

[HeyJoe]

I dont get it either.........I felt at times that we are held in contempt with some of the moderators and administrators....I just saw a YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED from a moderator. Not one question posed about safeguarding any future data, or decentralizing the operation has been addressed. I see the administrator praised over and over there, and come to the conclusion that many people need to believe in a powerful benevolent someone in charge no matter how much evidence to the contrary mounts.

[Silverlady]

I guess I missed seeing the agreement to post on this one instead of the old one. I've been kinda bouncing back and forth and really not choosing one or the other. I wish we could get all of us back to this one. And I wish we could get some understanding of how secure or how long lasting this one is. Or did I miss this? I have to skip some posts since I can't sit much.

Billye

[nide44]

I signed onto OBT yesterday, as was stunned to find how many of the old pn forum were posting there. I became concerned that to follow what's going on with my old friends, and help new ones, I'd have to check both places daily, and actually belong to OBT, which I'm loathe to do.............Here we are with DocJohn being transparent, real, warm and honest. Why are people going back to a forum which has already failed us, .......... I do not get it.

I too, find that it is in my best interest to check both.
Probably because others are doing so, to be part of the 'community' that has
served us (albiet questionably) for so long.
As long as the 'regulars' (the knowledgeable ones) keep coming back to post,
we can rely on them for support.
It is difficult for some to change horses, midstream or not.
It is comforting to once again, find our 'family'.
The people we communicate with, on a regular basis.
Until the 'movers and shakers' (not the administrators or moderators) of the on-line posts decide to make a permanent move elsewhere - I'll have to keep check here and OBT, as well.
There's a big difference in pollitics vs daily advice & comfort. Its a shame that all this has come to be, but things are ........as things are.
I have no interest in creating (or participating in) movements, rallies or campaigns.
When I was first stricken with PN, BT (sponsored by the Hospital) was an island in a sea of almost no knowledge- an oasis that I stumbled upon (I still cannot remember exactly how I found it) when I was frantic with pain. My doctors were clueless as to how to treat or Rx properly. All I had was a "PN" clue from one of my medical records, and a PCP that thought I should be treated by a psyc because of my 'complaining'.
Only thru the experiences and empathy of the BT community, did I find answers and avenues to pursue. It became a habit, a daily 'fix' for my psyche. Switching would have been difficult at that time. I'm sure others are at that same juncture and would be 'abandoned' if the experienced & knowledgable 'regulars' (like yourself) - just left. Many were in a state of near panic when BT went off-line for the first time, and similarly affected with the recent problems. Back on-line was a blessing for them. The politics and reasons for the problems, as well as the administrative tactics of the moderators, really only affected a small percentile.
The rest were just glad they once more, had a place to go, and a place to get answers to the questions tha concerned them most.

So I guess Doc John's generosity offering an alternate for us, must be an alternative for those of us who realize that its the community that counts. Hopefully, this site will develop a community that is a kinder gentler place to be- and will gradually attract its own populace. Create its own nest in the niche that needs so much help & understanding.
I am pleased that it is here and hope that it will stay..... as another place to be, not a replacement or 'the alternative'- but just a place that needs to be here.......for those of us that need & want it.

[dahlek]

YET!
In relation to LizaJane's post about money mushing elsewhere....Well, if it does happen and there's tangible proof of it..the IRS will find out somehow I''m sure.

As for comments on change, well, it will or it won't..it's up to the administrations to fine tune things to satisfy [or try to] the majority of users.

What concerns me the most, and what I've found disconcerting about other boards is that in the past on these two boards, site or condition specific organizations or boards are not allowed to be referenced. Mores the pity as these boards are springboards of learning from others and other sites. ON the restrictive boards how creative does one have to get to get folks in need to the places they need to go? At times it's like walking in a land-mined field! Then, tho not on these boards, there are some 'respected' self-appointed 'experts' who, I find, quote US regulars...occasionally on a daily basis...often out of context and providing points of view not attributable to us and strewn w/biasing mis-information. There! I have vented!

As for what I do? I continue to try to learn, understand and DEFY my condition[s]! And will ardently support others any way I can in coping with the 'lemons' life has given us. I am not in a situation to contribute much financially to either site. I have offered services and skills gained in my prior lifes -to be either used or not is the admistration's choice.

Actually, I'd much prefer chocolate! Hugs to all! - j

[dlshaffer]

...under the "New Title" thread earlier today. As I stated, I was totally unaware of NeuroTalk until last week and unaware of all the other "stuff" until then also.

"...this site even existed until I read something about it in a message on BT when I realized that site was back up and running. I wish I had known about this site as I spent the last two plus months adrift without reading information from BT the first thing in the morning upon turning on my computer.

Wings states, "...and am disappointed so many are going back to BrainTalk." I wonder if this is because so many people still do not know about this site???

I will be sticking with this site after reading some of the background of BT through various messages - things happening that I had no clue about.

I am also interested in the Vitamin forum as it has been helpful in reading and gathering information as it relates to my PN. I will be posting my story with updated information later today or tomorrow."

Diana Shaffer

[Steve]

after I saw how Glenn was treated in trying to raise some of the concerns we all have. As you can imagine, his posts were impeccably crafted, thought-provoking and well-reasoned. He was trashed by some idiots who sounded like junior high school girls on nitrous. Their embarassing troll behavior was tolerated, of course, because it defended John.

I'm not really sure how crack-addicted one would have to be be to imagine that people with twice one's IQ and six times one's moral fiber would keep coming back to an Internet forum only to be harangued with one's incoherent and nearly illiterate lectures on the sanctity of JL, but obviously a lot of people over there are hitting the pipe very hard.

[Aussie99]

As my father always said they are probably "A bubble out of plumb". But hitting the pipe is also a very solid description. It seems as though he feel fancy free to misappropriate donations,mask wrongdoings, and intentially ignore us.

To him it has become the norm,like the air that he now breaths. False hero, black knight, a true pyrrhic victory. He was willing to sacrifice morality and the well-being of the entire community to further himself.

What gets me very cranky is that he has no remorse and is oblivious to the feelings of those he has trampled over. I remember I had encountered a member who I suspected was about 14 years old. He was in a foster situation,and his posts were very alarming,and he admitted to being sexually abused by various male members of his family. I PM John lester and asked him to help this young man,and use the information from his posts if he had to. I PM him twice with no response at all.

The young man disappeared from the community,but his member log-on details would of helped with locating him. I mean how unfeeling can one really be??:mad:


PS. There is a good possibility that those very same moderators you speak of Steve are none other than John Lester pretending to be different people. It's actaully very common that an administer like John Lester has multiple profiles,and uses them to further manipulate people into submission. I wouldn't be surprised if he was lurking on this forum too, promoting his other sights.

[MelodyL]

I bet that none of you have ever checked out Second Life have you???

Well, I did, (Only because my son who has aspergers is addicted to it).

It's free to join, so I joined. I must say the graphics are overwhelming, the tech language is not for beginners. You really have to know your computer technology to know what you are doing in this virtual world.

But the shocker was.....There is a lot of sexual activity in this world.

sure, you can be an entrepreneur, and make Linden dollars, and build stuff and fly in the air and create your own avatar with skins, textures, and other wonderful stuff.

You can also enter a virtual world of S and M, bondage, hookers, and last but not least, sexual areas (which I accidentally entered and took off so fast it would make your head spin).

I happened to be sitting on a log around a campfire and if you sit there for 10 minutes you get 2 linden dollars. So I had zero linden dollars to my name, So here I am sitting around a fire, with other avatars sitting on their logs when female avatar walks up to me and invites me to go with her and she'll pay me 50 linden dollars. So, because i have no idea what I'm doing, and I hear 50 linden dollars, I said "sure!" and she teleports me to a place where......and I'm trying to not be off-color here.....but everybody was stark naked and well, USE YOUR IMAGINATION!!!. I typed in the chat box on the bottom of my screen: "oh my god, you're all naked and having sex" and one of the avatar's says in the chat box "well, hi there, come and join the party". So there I was standing in this virtual world, (completely dressed) and everybody was having the time of their lives. One female says to me "isn't this the most amazing place??" I answered "you've got that right!!" and I teleported myself to a virtual gambling casino and sat somewhere and earned some more linden dollars for doing virtually nothing.

When Alan came home and I explained what happened, after he stopped laughing so hard, his bald head turned red, he looked at me and said "I wish I could have seen your face when everybody was naked".

I mean, who ever thought that second life would have virtual sex places? Lots of virtual sex places.

So now we know what JL has been up to don't we???

melody

[mrsD]

Maybe I better check this out! Thanks Mel! :p But you know, I don't think my ISP is FAST enough to handle that place...LOL If you look at it from another point of view...there are many people who don't understand sex or intimacy.. and online activities could bridge that for them. My son had a brief fascination with the Furry community...and he outgrew it pretty quickly. You can look that up, if you have never heard of it. It was a developmental, juvenile thing for him. ( I found out after, and was pretty stunned!)

In all seriousness... A non-profit does not have to file an IRS statement, unless
the income exceeds $25,000. At one time this limit was going to be raised, so
I don't know if it has. So there does not have to be accountability.

While I agree it may disturb people to know the "truth" about OBT's admin,
the "truth" varies from individual to individual. Some things can be verified on the net.. and others cannot. I have found some interesting stuff myself. Labeling posters at OBT as "high" or the implied negative attributes suggested by Liza's post, is not respectful at all.

I agree with Nide (Bob) in that most of the folks at PN are not involved in the
politics of OBT. Many aren't.

So as Liza is stunned, I am stunned to see this thread here. DocJohn does not
need more negative attitude or accusations (that do not have EVIDENCE, but only speculation)..to bring problems to this board, about another venue.
We are lucky to have this wonderful place...let's not denigrate another place using a wonderful, generous positive one. There are emails and PMs to share your feelings.

If folks do not like OBT...then don't go there. But don't cast aspersions on those of us who choose to participate there in our own way.

I donated, I was banned, I was hurt, and I got over it. It is time others move on as well.

Sorry, off the soap box.

one more thing... remember if it were not for OBT (and all it flaws as well)
we all would not have met each other, and this thread would not even exist.
Think about that. What is more important? The politics, your disappointments, or the facts and connections we all made?

[Wing42]

When I tried to log in, Wings42 wasn't found. When I tried to register anew, I got the message "The administrator has banned your email address. To contact the administrator click here." I clicked on the link about two weeks ago, asked what the problem was and how to remedy it, and received no response. That feels so like the old OBT. I tried again tonight after reading this thread, but am not holding my breath awaiting a reply.

OBT had two crashes of the old server, and two of the new. The old server problems were quickly remediated, and we were all kept informed. The new server (which I helped pay for) problems were very s-l-o-o-o-o-w-l-y solved and we were not kept informed. In the case of the latest crash, the database wasn't even restored. In any computer dependent business, the IT director would get fired and possibly sued if the database was lost and it took so long to bring the system back up, and if the users were kept uninformed.

As far as I'm concerned, two adages apply:

- "Once bitten, twice shy" and

- "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

I'm not a fool, and will not set myself up for the typical OBT abuse and neglect a third time.

[MelodyL]

Hi Mrs. D.

You need a cable modem or a dsl line to get into second life.

And yes, I agree, there are many souls out there who are too shy to go in the real world so a fantasy world is right up their alley.

You should have seen my face when this naked person approached me asking me if I want to get it on and I think I replied "get it on what?"

Now that just shows you how old I really am.

I was sorry to hear that Liza Jane donated $10,000. At least that's what I read in the posting. That would pay my rent for one year.

So some people have bad things to say about OBT and some don't. Matter of perspective I guess.

Oh, by the way, Alan had a full spine MRI yesterday. Told me it was painful. I said "how on earth can an MRI be painful?" he said "you know I can't lie down straight without the pins and needles and shooting pain". I said "you did this for 30 minutes, you poor thing".

Nice cup of hot tea soothed the day.

Will update on what they find and what can be done. (if anything).

be well
Melody

[HeyJoe]

I was never involved with any politics at braintalk, as most here werent or arent. I didnt even know there were politics, I thought it was a totalitarian state. Sure I am grateful that I had a place to go to when I didnt know anything about PN, and I appreciate most deeply the people who went out of their way to give me advice and just in general took the time to post what they knew. Many times however, I felt like I was back in grade school with the arrogance, and at times just plain meaness of the moderators. I was once threatened with being banned because I said I was sick and was throwing up, another time I was banned for 30 days because I was discussing peripheral neuropathy in the chat room and someone else found it boring and complained. That has nothing to do with politics, its just the way I was treated and I resented it. I wasnt denigrating the people from here that go to both places, Ive made a few posts there since its back up running, what I was amazed at was the almost fanatical devotion to someone who obviously has moved on to other things and the denigration of anyone who posited their view of needed reforms after two major crashes. I understand perfectly why people who contributed money to get it back up and running last time feel the way that they feel. I bet many feel like they bought the Brooklyn Bridge. By the way in a recent thread, an administrator at this site said there was no problem with discussing what people felt that they needed to about Braintalk.

[mrsD]

Discussion is good, IMO. Implying that "something is wrong" with people who post at OBT is crossing the line, IMO.

Alot of the behaviors at OBT, I thought were due to the personality issues that the admins had.
For example, my son is a computer "nerd" techie..he makes his living with it
now. So I know many of his friends...over the years, and have a feel for
the "type" it can attract. I can tell you for example the head computer technician at the
huge place I am now temping at could put some of those admins at OBT to
shame. Did you ever see the skits on SNL in the past about the computer guy who comes into the office and denigrates the personel because they are having a snafu? Very familiar to me at least. While we can laugh at the TV, it is another matter when it is you or I who are being shamed. And I also get that shame feeling from this thread.

I personally did not feel comfortable in chats... I visited a few times, and decided it was not for me. But I would not post that I was "stunned" that others chose to do so! I think as a matter of fact that you and I chatted on one of those rare times!? I also had my moments of not posting as often as before while I was sorting out my own feelings and issues.

So the fact remains that we now have a nice new home. Those interested will find this place like OBT was found on Google. I don't think it is necessary to
keep going on and on about disappointments...one has to move on to the more constructive issues. And here it means support and helping.

[mrsD]

you know I had an MRI of my right knee/thigh when I was having major pain, several years ago.

I thought the MRI made it worse for about a week. I have seen posts where
people have thought the same. The MRI agitates molecules to make a picture.
It stands to reason it is doing "something" to the body, IMO. So it might be that in addition to the uncomfortable position? They say at the test, "no" but do they really "know"?

[dahlek]

Mrs. D YOU WERE BANNED? David, did you 'start over?' I got that rite off the bat...
Aussie, you are spot on....about the 'bubble'! VERY GOOD! Gave me a good smile for my morning! I really needed it.

This all is getting depressing, can we all live, work with what 'vehicles' we've got and get on w/it. I beleive contributions will reflect accordingly. Wherever appropriate...after all $ is a major influence- look at Congress and politics! No-brainer! - j

Life goes on-As Cats say: Life is hard, then you nap! - apt?

[MelodyL]

I'll never have an MRI again. Believe me, I want my molecules to stay right where they are!!

Especially when a naked person approaches me again!!!

Lordy, lord

melody

[mrsD]

Thanks for the big belly laugh... I needed it today. (I am working a very
stressful shift 2:30-11pm and I am getting a bit foggy in the noggy!

A good laugh clears the mind and soul!

[HeyJoe]

Ive had 4 mri's and one cat scan, and the only effect Ive had is being stiff from not being able to move for 20 minutes. Now EMG/NCS's on the other hand have set off my PN for a few days.

I hope it wasnt me that you felt was trying to shame, as a matter of fact i owe you more than i could ever repay.

[LizaJane]

Omigod, Mel, I did not donate $10,000 to JL. If it says that somewhere, please show me, as it's a bad typo if that's what it says. JL told us he had raised $10,000 when he asked us for money after his servers crashed. No, I did not give that much---oh to have such money to donate--would be nice, but no, not me. But I did give generously, by any standards with the belief that money would be used to maintain the site.

MrsD--I'm sorry you think I'm insulting the moderators over there, or "trashing". My post here was mostly because, well, I'm stunned that folks post there and not here, where we are being treated warmly and with respect. I certainly feel safer here, and I appreciate that the moderators here are open, bright, and seem to understand what we are dealing with. My understanding of the moderators "there", was that they were basically friends of JL from Second Life. I could be wrong on that, but I understood that we paid for them to go to California together and "brainstorm". And I have found out, when I did my charity search, that yes, JL did not have to file anything with the IRS because the charity was under $25,000. Still, I started this thread because I was annoyed to have to check both sites to find my friends, and hoped everyone would just stay here. I like this place.

I'm sorry if I said anything shaming that somehow hurt you. That surely was not my intent. But I don't mind shaming JL. I think his behavior, and that of some of his mods, is lacking is simple empathy and conscience. It's just plain wrong, and I have no trouble saying that, but surely, it is not aimed at you, MrsD, so I'm confused at how i triggered this feeling, and I am sorry for somehow doing that.

Joe--I appreciate your message that it's okay to talk about my feelings about OBT here. I'd like to be "over it", but I'm not quite. I feel conned and used.

Mel--about your day at Second Life. It sounds like quite an adventure---a virtual sex club! Who woulda thunk it possible? But Second Life is becoming the next big thing on the internet, and a number of real brick and mortar companies are investing in it, and people are spending real money there. So...did you have fun?

Steve--<<I'm not really sure how crack-addicted one would have to be be to imagine that people with twice one's IQ and six times one's moral fiber would keep coming back to an Internet forum only to be harangued with one's incoherent and nearly illiterate lectures on the sanctity of JL, but obviously a lot of people over there are hitting the pipe very hard>>

You do make me smile. Too bad you're spoken for. All the good ones....

[MelodyL]

Liza Jane. Here's what you posted:

"I'm stunned at how many folk post there. John took $10,000 from us and used it to fund a retreat for Second Lifers, who were acting as moderators."

See how I thought you gave him $10,000? How silly of me. I now know you mean total money gotten from all the people, right?

Now you asked me if I had fun in Second Life. I can't say. My mother taught me never to kiss and tell. AND I ALWAYS LISTEN TO MY MOTHER!!!!

You gotta go there. It will knock your socks off. I will never understand why anyone would pay for a membership when you can join for free and do whatever you wish but people are literally paying rent for housing, building islands, gambling in virtual casinos.

Oh, I forgot to tell the story of how I ended up in an S&M dungeon. It was my first time on Second Life and I had absolutely no idea what the heck I was doing. I was practicing teleporting here and there and practicing flying around. So I did a search and somehow was teleported to a very dark world.
There was a host standing there with a collar on and he goes "how may I serve you maam". I think I asked him "how do I earn free linden dollars" and he goes: "I can't help you maam, I am a slave". I said "you're a what??" an then I looked at his avatar. Sure enough, he was slave wearing a collar (this world was for people into bondage and submissives and all that.

Well, here I was asking this strange thing a question about linden dollars and he is going "I'm a slave". So I just said "So if you're a slave, you have to answer all my questions, right?" He said "of course maam"

So I said "stop calling me maam and start explaining linden dollars to me".
So for 15 minutes, I learned all about the currency of Second Life.

FROM A SLAVE NO LESS. jeez.

Thank god I learned to fly by myself.

Melody

[Yorkiemom]

This is the first time I have posted on this website... I have to go back and read Melody's post again. I thought I must be dreaming when I read some of that. I have never heard of anything like that before...

I guess all of this must have taken place when I was on my hiatus. I have no idea what the majority of this is about, but am grateful to have found all of you again. This seems like such a nice site and I look forward to coming here frequently.

Meanwhile, back to the post. That shocked the PN right out of me for a fleeting moment... :) :) :)

Glad to see you all again.

Cathie

[Curious]

welcome cathie! :D

just wanted to make sure you knew that melody was on another site...second life...not neoro talk when she was having those new experiences.

they were new weren't they melody? :p

[Steve]

a long article about Second Life in today's Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/25/leading_a_double_life/). John Lester is quoted.

[HeyJoe]

Posting here has sure slowed down since Melody described that island. You havent ALL gone to that Island have you?

[MelodyL]

New?????

Let me tell you someting!!! I'm a 59 year old Catholic girl who went to catholic parochial school with the nuns. I married a jewish man when I was 32 years old. We sent our son to an Episcopl Private Country Day School

No where in my life did it ever happen that a naked person came over to me saying "want to get it on?" No wonder I said "get it on what?"

I never laughed so hard in all my life.

I'm seeing things I never thought I would see...EVER.....

I visited gambling casinos, dungeons, (and the other place).

The thing I don't understand is the stuff people pay for in this place. They rent out beautiful apartments and pay by the month. They entertain and go on dates.

I was flying around someplace yesterday and when I landed this big good looking guy walks up to me and says "want to see my place?. I typed back. "I don't even know you" and he goes "well, we can fix that". Then he goes "I like your outfit". (You can creat your own avatar, with skins, colors, textures, height, weight (no body is fat there, believe me,they all look like playboy bunnies".

Now the avatar I created is a regular girl with a regular body, a pair of jeans, a top and some shoes. I have absolutely no idea how to do anything else and I'm lucky my avatar has any clothes on at all. It seems you purchase items with linden dollars, and they stay in your inventory until you right click, drag the item to your avatar and it gets clothed. (Yippee, isn't that a ball of fun?)

So I politely say "thank you" to this guy when he goes (and I kid you not) want me to buy you a new body part?" I just stood there and said "I beg your pardon". And he goes 'yeah, it's on me, I'll sport you for a body part".

I think I said "I have to go and cook dinner, and he said "oh, okay, come back soon".

OH YEAH, I'M RUNNING THERE. Somebody will get me a new body part.

Someone should buy me and Alan Blue Stuff, that's what we need.

And this is the future of gaming. What's next. Holographic sex????

Bring back Star Trek, that's all I have to say.


Anyway, back to PN Stuff. Alan had a bad pn night last night. he took a xanax and it did nothing. His feet were driving him crazy all night, even after I massaged him. Don't know why. He should be getting the results of his mri this week. I do hope they can do something on his back. Because when he doesn't sleep, I don't sleep. Oh well. PN stinks, as all of you wel know.

be well,

Melody
P.S. I dare any of you to try Second Life. You laugh your asses off




I stopped flying. I think my second life experience is over. At least for now.

[jccgf]

Melody,

I'm sorry to hear Alan had a bad night, and that you did, too, but as for the rest of your post...

Priceless, Melody, Priceless! :D You're story telling just gets better and better...lol!

Cara

[LizaJane]

Melody, Melody--They're selling new body parts there? Please tell me how to get there---I want a new spine something awful!

And maybe I could find JL there and drag him to that S&M club for the spanking he deserves!

[MelodyL]

After I finished cooking dinner, I went to Second Life to see where you get body parts. I mean, if I can get a body like Pamela Anderson Lee, then what the heck, right? So I typed in Body parts Store, and all these things pop up. I teleported myself into a store and lordy, I saw body parts all over the walls. You hover your mouse over the picture and guess what you see????Brand new nipp###. Brand new (well, I can't even use asterisks on that word). They even had a wall with rectums, only they didn't call them rectums. The sign said "Buy yourself a new (you fill in the blanks).
Guess what a body part costs??? 600 linden dollars.

Wow, I guess if I had 5000 lindens I could have some body hah!!!
Only thing is I couldn't use it for anything.

There were men and women in the store and one guy was eyeing my avatar so before he could approach me and ask if he could buy me a new rectum, I hightailed it out of there. Don't need a new one, mine works just fine.

I also read that there is a Harvard business student who teaches some kind of virtual course in Second Life. What the heck ever happened to going in person to learn something.?

This virtual stuff is really amazing. People don't have to leave their homes anymore.

Me?? I'd rather hug my Alan, give him a real massage by a real person and grow old together.

Ah, but it would be nice to look like Pamela Anderson Lee now wouldn't it???

melody

[Wing42]

Goody. ;) I bet somebody will introduce a virus into Second Life that you can only get through virtual (oops, I almost typed "virtous") sex, and you have to pay a virtual doctor to treat.:D

If you have virtual sex, can you honestly say, "I never had sex with that woman!" ?

If I went to Second Life, which I don't intend to now, I'd love to run and backpack in the beautiful Sierra wilderness again. Sex is great, but to me, moving in the beautiful outdoors for hours was even better. That's the worst part of PN for me, that I can't do what I most loved to do anymore.

[Steve]

the article in the Globe spotlighted a woman who teaches at the Harvard Extension school. She's standing in front of the real building--a building I've walked by a million times--and then you see her avatar in front of the virtual Harvard building, which looks exactly the same as the real one!

I almost want to go there, and see whether I can walk home.

Although, I'd get very nervous if I found my apartment and discovered an avatar of myself typing on a PC....

[MelodyL]

NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!

Melody

[Silverlady]

Hey Melody,
I'd want a new spine, new knees, new feet, aw heck, I want a new body and I don't care if it looks like Pamela Anderson Lee or not. I just want it to work!!

Billye

[MelodyL]

From what I've seen in Second Life (and believe me, this is no Nintendo game), he's going to be filthy rich.

Seems a lot of people like to live in fantasy worlds.

Me? I'm just happy to get up without pain in the morning.
melody

[Yorkiemom]

to get on the site, but must be doing something wrong. I managed to register, but can't seem to get anything to come up. I am on a Mac though, so maybe this is the problem. I have never heard of anything like this before. Or maybe you have to have a paid registration, which I did not...

Like Billye, I would love to have some new body parts, preferably just working ones that don't hurt...

Cathie

[Aussie99]

I like to fly, around. I have not been approached for anything funky yet, but some guy did try to offer me something sort of gift, like a biscuit or something.I declined. Another guy wanted to chat,and I declined.

I just like to fly....

I have been on there with my son,and we enter the little virtual stores,hotels, lots of little shops. It's fun. I saw some naked people too,and we had a bit of a giggle.:D

[MelodyL]

Hi, for anybody who wanted to go and look at Second Life yesterday, the grid was down for maintenance and an upgrade from 7 in the a.m. till 3 in the p.m EST.

It was working fine as of last night. I had to ugrade my software. Took me all of 5 minutes.

And it's completely free to sign up. unless you want a paid membership.

I truly believe that the people who pay for it are the ones who are really really in to the virtual role playing games. They hunt for treasures, and they design their avatars with skins and costumes that would rival a special effects company.

When you have linden dollar (virtual money in SL), you go into virtual stores and purchase skin (the color of your body), you can purchase body shapes, ears, (other private body parts as well). You can have an animal head, an animal behind, tails, etc. That is in the animal body parts store (I kid you not).

You can also purchase wings and look like an Angel in this world.

But this kind of stuff is for the real gamers who take this to a whole new level.

I looked up my son's profile in their and there is a tab at the top of his profile that says "first life". I clicked on it and sure enough, there was his picture.
So there is the real world in which we live in which is referred to as First Life and you have Second Life which is (virtual reality).

So there you go.

Happy Teleporting!!!!!1

Melody

[mrsD]

familiar... The Furry community had the same sort stuff only it was
not fee for service. It sort of seems like Second Life is an extension
of some other role playing groups. YOu know in those days the fast
connections were not available etc, to enable this type of game.

Furries required more imagination. The "furries" all were animal icons...
and I found it really strange, but my creative type son, says this is an
archtypical human trait--long buried in our modern world. But he outgrew the concept
pretty quickly. I even saw a CSI episode with a furry plot line, and also an ER one a while back. So that may have been more popular. My son said some people got really into it, dressed up in private time and had conventions. This aspect never appealed to him. He was not into it that much.

I had asked him about Second Life a while ago...and he said it was very slow
getting going. He went there a long time ago. It must have changed? Perhaps, I can visit and
egg him into showing me...but next month I am working only weekends, so I don't have the time off to travel --he works week days! He has Comcast, high speed.. I don't have high speed at all!

I am finding these posts of yours, Melody, fascinating!

[MelodyL]

Mrs. D.

When the nintendo crazy hit, and then there was playstation, well these video games had role playing aspects to them. Not only could you play karate, and tetris but there was a game called Everquest. My son had all the games. I looked it up online and there are Everquest Conventions.

The people who go there are exactly like the trekkers who go to Star Trek conventions. The everquesters dress up like their characters in the game.

they go to conventions dressed like Nanook of the North, with polar bear skins and large blades. I would drop dead if a guy ever came up to me at a convention and looked like that. I'm much prefer Klingons. They seem tamer.

I've never been to a star trek convention. I know people who have gone and they've taken photos with Zulu and Checkhov and other guys from the tv show.
That would have blown my mind. I should have taken the time and gone.

I'm not into that anymore. Probably I outgrew it.

But Second Life, well the graphics are out of this world. Everytime you enter a world, the graphics start loading as you stand there and the world you are now in is literally building itself up around you as you stand there and wait for it to load up. Whoever designs these graphics most certainly knows their stuff. Some worlds have waterfalls that so exquisite, I just walked around and admired the view. It was actually like going on vacation and sitting on a log by various waterfalls. Absolutely breathtaking and very calming.

You should try it.

Melody

[Silverlady]

But this is very interesting. Melody, my curiosity got the best of me. I tried it, but found it very difficult for my brain to comprehend. Probably due to my fear that there was something wrong with being there. A little on the scary side. I fear that this site and what it offers could become very addictive and a person with addictive tendancies to spend money, experience sexual fantasies, gamble, etc. could become very hooked on this place and possibly get into real debt. For example: I spent my 200 "dollars" on a dress right away and futher adventures were difficult in the wee morning hours. Forgot to add a person with terrible curiosity too (wink)! I don't think I'll go back.

Billye

[MelodyL]

Billye:

The reason I went there was I wanted to see what the heck my son does night and day that so fascinating. He talks about Second Life as if it is better than sliced bread. My son also does not work, is a compulsive gambler and has no work ethic whatsoever. Whether this is because he has Aspergers, or because he's a compulsive gambler, I have no idea and after 5 years, I don't care anymore. Too much pain.

But I also can see where a shy person who has no social experiences could go there and learn. Learn to interact in a virtual world, learn to communicate. There are many many social outcasts in the world. If this site does that, then it can be a very good thing.

But unfortunately in my son's case, it's all consuming, probably because has Aspergers which makes you obsessive.

Anyway, enough about Second Life and all it's sexual mysteries.

Let's hope it helps people and is not all consuming.

I'm doing a post on Alan's mri results and possible surgery.

melody

[Silverlady]

I forgot to add, I DO NOT have any of the compulsive habits. Only enough curiosity to kill a cat. It's probably what has kept me going this long. Can't stand not knowing what's going to happen next in my life. :D

Billye

[Steve]

the target market, although I like PC games. To me, SL seems so directionless. And I am getting more low tech the older I get, so as soon they start talking about prims and properties my eyes glaze over.

I've been TPing around looking for money trees. All I found was--well, I'm not going to tell you what I found. It has a very, very tall sign, and the second word is "Booth." You can figure it out.

[MelodyL]

Where where where?????

lol, melody

[dlshaffer]

Melody - I have to tell you that I have gotten such a kick out of your "travelogue" of your Second Life experiences. I will try it sometime when I am not so tired, but I also have some reservations about doing so. Must be my age.:D

Diana

[Yorkiemom]

Sooo.. If you did not give them a credit card number to get some free Linden dollars, then you have zero money to toodle around with... Does this mean, if you ever are able to get signed on, you will have no clothes to wear??? This is NOT good... :)
Cathie

[MelodyL]

Well, I believe I had to put my credit card on file (to prove I'm over 18).
They have never charged me. They offer different accounts. Mine is a free basic.

So when you sign on, you create your avatar. They supply the skin (you can purchase a different skin when you earn Linden Dollars.

But for free, I gave myself boobs like Pamela Anderson Lee, a behind like Jennifer Lopez, legs like Cyd Sharisse (you all remember her, right?)

and hair (well the hair is like Pamela's too).

How do you earn Linden dollars you might be asking.

Well, you go and sit on logs around a campfire and if you stay for 10 minutes you earn two linden dollars. So I stayed for a while.

Then someone came along and I said "I have no lindens" and she gave me 50 right off the bat. For doing nothing but accompanying her to some stupid sex place. I got out of there fast but I had 50 lindens. Then I teleported to some casino and lost it playing slots.

You should get a load of some of the people there. They have designed Avatars (must have cost them plenty, because stores sell skins, costumes, really neat stuff).

There were people there (well they looked like they were going to a grand ball).

Amazing graphics. But honestly after a while, (I mean how much can you type in text to talk to someone) and how much can you fly over waterfalls.

Bored me silly. But that's me. I can see where a tech no geek would be in paradise in some of these worlds.

melody

[Aussie99]

and I have fully satisfied my curiousity. All the flying is kinda neat,and changing haircolor and so forth. It is a bit directionless, like zombies just running around from room to room. I went into a dance club and saw some people breakdancing which was very funny. Then I walked into a room where they were typing German,and also typing about sex acts.

Mel, I saw the characters having group sex,and I saw a few of the male characters with very large male body parts running around naked. Then someone types, "does anybody know where I can buy a penis"?

There were some German's on there having cybersex if that's what it's called. Bravo to JL for his smashing success in Cybersex, and the selling male body parts. All I can say is these conversations between the German's having sex, showed up on my computer screen for some reason. I was mortified to see it there and was hoping I could get rid of it,so I closed program off. I don't mind a fantasy world,I don't mind virtual reality. I was very happy to hear this sort of place was to help those who have trouble socialising and so forth. But JL has created a virtual pornographic orgy world for kids with autism??:confused: :confused:

What the HECK?? How can people be banned for talking about politics and illnesses on the old Braintalk forum,but kids can talk dirty and partake in group sex,orgies,and so forth on Second Life?

This is marketed to kids.

[MelodyL]

I knew what you mean about buying a penis. I didn't want to post what I saw but you had the guts to do that.

Isn't it the funniest thing when you can go into a virtual store and buy a rectum? And other private areas of your body.

You think this is marketed to kids? I don't think so necessarily. You have to be at least 18 and supply a credit card to join (if you get a basic free account, they don't charge the card). From what I saw, no body under 20 or so would have the tech knowledge, to know about coding, about HUD's, about invisibility shields, and most of all, about S&M. That's not a kid thing. At least I don't think it is. And if it is, god help us all!!!!

Guess where I teleported yesterday?. I typed in dungeon in the search engine and a whole mess of places came up. I thought I would find myself in a place dark and dreary and smoky and people with collars and chains but nooooo.

What I found was a lighted world filled with about 100 devices in a room. All the devices had a pink ball and a blue ball. The women click on the pink (for femails obviously) and the men would click on the blue.

Now I must admit my curiousity got the better of me because I saw gadgets and devices that I had absolutely no idea what would happen.

So guess what happened when I walked (my avatar walked, that is), over to a device with a flame under it. I clicked on the pink ball and all of a sudden my avatar was tied up on the thing over the flame and my avatar became like a roasted pig over a spit. I immediately clicked on "stand up" and kept walking around. Then it hit me 'these are torture devices", for people into masochism, to fulfill their fantasies. I would gather that two people who are into S&M would teleport into this room and one would stand by and watch the other go on different gadgets.

Maybe it's safer for people to indulge these fantasies in Second Life than to perpetrate them on people in real life?

I never, in all my life, saw such things. And I'm 59. Imagine being 20 and going into Second Life.

Something to think about.

melody

[nide44]

I really don't have enough curiosity to go to this 2nd life place (I had enough computer problems with my 'passing interest' in the XX sites when I was younger & first got a computer in '95). But are you saying that JL designed a site that is for autistcs and troubled kids- that has sex rooms? Graphic sex rooms? & for free !?
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Weird people and deviants pay mucho $$ on credit cards to go to XXX pervert sites- this could get out of hand quickly.
How do you have moderators for such places- where anything goes?
A big "trouble, Will Robinson"

[Bobbi]

Hi everyone :). I'm also a member of SL and have been for a couple of years now. I've yet to encounter as Melody and as Aussie99 have while visiting SL.

I joined not long after JL announced its founding at OBT - and shortly after I was dx'd with Asperger's (as an adult). I'm a member of Brigadoon, which is a private island and it is totally "G" rated.

Admittedly, it deeply saddens me to see how SL (and Brigadoon) have been characterized - here.

So that people do know: JL didn't create SL or "virtual" sex havens within SL. He works for Linden Labs, which created SL. And, JL has never behaved inappropriately (in a sexually suggestive manner) - that I've ever seen.

The sexual content, etc., in SL is restricted to "Mature" regions in SL; it's not system-wide. People choose to visit those regions, and the same applies to the regions that offer gambling and so on.

This article was written earlier this year; it offers a glimpse into Brigadoon:

Autism community forges virtual haven (http://society.guardian.co.uk/societyguardian/story/0,,1725447,00.html)

The only inaccuracy I see (in the above article) is my age; I declined to provide that, since SL also has its TOS and members are not required to disclose data about ourselves - that could ID us in RL; the reporter took a "guess." (My member name - "Rain" - is derived from a nickname that my RL friends gave me.)

SL doesn't create addictions. I've currently $L 24,000 in my account - and that's the balance after having raised and re-directed donations for Brigadoon, ShockProof and BT.

What do I do in SL? Some is described in the article.

I've also participated in Educational Faires - by helping set up and "man" the areas respective of Asperger's and Brigadoon.

Because Brigadoon is a private island, and none of my RL friends are also Aspies, I bumped my basic account to a premium - to buy land. A few of my RL friends joined SL - being supportive of me and of others with Asperger's. We "meet" on that land and it bridges a gap; we live far apart so, in a sense, it's a way to get to "see" each other and interact through synchronous chat.

Periodically, Brigadoon has an "open house," and its members are invited to ask others to attend :). It's not a secret society, but the island does provide a safe haven... free from prejudice and ridicule.

I'm not a lone individual in SL; I know a number of people who don't use SL for its "sexual" content/activity. One, for instance, is a cardiopulmonary specialist - a doctor. His use of SL is for relaxation and creating.

To me, SL is not only a viable tool for socialization, it also facilitates creativity - much as do the modules used in design school, which I'm attending (thinking that design can provide a relief from working in computer forensics and encountering a barrage of criminals.)

SL is member-driven/dependent. The content (objects and text) exist, in large part, based on what members do in SL. And, in turn, SL is what each member makes it; the experience is also member dependent.

:)

[Steve]

some things are getting very mixed up here.

First, JL did not design SL. He bought and designed a space within second life. I haven't seen it, yet.

Second, many of the parts of SL are rated PG, and you can be banned from them for even talking dirty.

Third, a bunch of reputable universities have SL campuses, where real online learning takes place. Harvard even has one, somewhere.

It's a big wide world, just like the real one. I have some beefs with JL, but I don't want to see him slandered through simple misunderstanding.

Of course the thought does come to mind: Maybe a bunch of us should hunt down his avatar on SL sometime and gang up on him!

[glenntaj]

--comes from the feeling many of us have of being "jilted" by Braintalk's founder, and curiosity at what possibly could be more interesting or compelling to him than the Braintalk boards.

That being said, yes, SL, as a virtual world is just like the real world--good points, bad points, wonder, mischief, fantasy, absurdity, kinkiness, truthful and not-so-truthful self-presentations--though one can change the latter much more quickly, and with much better graphics. :D

[Bobbi]

Thank you Steve and Glenntaj :). I totally understand what you've relayed and also relate to the feelings of disappointment, etc., that evolved when OBT crashed :(.

What hurts is the innuendo - wild guesses - about Brigadoon and its members, suggesting (oh, I mean, asking if) we might be participating in some type of virtual orgies because we "can't get any" in Real Life. The hint of that is unfounded and, in no way, reality-based.

Just as there is more to existence than sex in RL, so, too, is there more to our involvement within SL and Brigadoon :cool:.

[Bobbi]

Hi, Aussie99,

It was only recently (within the past few months, I think) that SL opened a "Teen Grid," and it is specifically for teens, not adults and not adult "sexual" content/context.

Aside from Linden Lab employees whom oversee the activities (in the teen grid) and assure that adults are not infiltrating the grid or preying on teens, adults are not permitted. Linden Lab has very strict TOS respective of the grid and its uses, which are enforced if a problem presents itself.

Conversely, teens are not permitted in the adult grid (whether the regions are rate GP or Mature).

This isn't correct:

"But JL has created a virtual pornographic orgy world for kids with autism??"

Please see my other post(s). The only way that teens are permitted in Brigadoon is with the direct authorization, participation and supervision of a parent, guardian or care-provider. Teens aren't allowed to Teleport to any adult Region, yet they can also join the Teen Grid.


Bob,

Just as there are admins. here and at other forums on the Net, Brigadoon also has admins. :). It's not a free-for-all or "anything goes" environment.



Please... don't associate the "sexual" stuff with Brigadoon, ShockProof (for stroke survivors and supportive people) or Live2Give (for people with Cerebral Palsy) - or with JL. It's not right.

:)

[MelodyL]

Hi Bobbi:

I've posted about my experiences in Second Life and many people have enjoyed my travelogues (as they put it).

I joined because my son who has Aspergers, lives on Second Life, day and night. He has no interest in Brigadoon. I told him about it. I wish he would go there. Maybe he has but when I mentioned it to him, he couldn't care less.All he does is gamble there.

You are right when you said that Second Life is good for socialization. If it helps people, then it's a good thing.

The Sex part of it, well, I didn't know about that and when I found it out, I laughed so hard and just shared my adventures in this forum.

I never bashed Second Life so please do not think I did.

I am glad that you are content in Second Life's Brigadoon.

All the best
melody

[Lara]

Bobbi,
Thankyou once again for helping to correct the misinformation and misrepresentations that have been voiced on this thread since it was started.

It is appreciated.
Lara

[Bobbi]

((( Melody )))

I'd heard from others about the sex happenings in SL; maybe it's because I deal with so much disgusting work-related stuff that I've not ventured to encounter as you have firsthand. I can see how unsuspecting people, such as yourself, could stumble into it. Too me that's stuff, it's just ... well ... I don't know what to make of it, to be honest.

I've got better ways I wanna spend my money :D.

Maybe when SL has another open house, your son might consider visiting B. It's better seen - and experienced - that any description I could provide; I'm sure I've not done it justice, since words really can't adequately convey all that it encompasses.

If you want to see a different side of SL when you're logged in, feel free to drop me a message. My SL user name, in full, is: Rainmaiden Fairplay.

As I mentioned, long before I knew I had AS, my friends were calling me "Rain." One of my professors had said that I reminded him of the Dustin Hoffman character from ... what movie ;). I hadn't seen the movie and he suggested I do so. (When working in publishing, without looking, I knew the names, addresses and telephone numbers of subscribers off the top-of-my-head. I thought it was nice to have that address book lodged in my brain :D.) And, still, with work, my colleagues comment about how I retain info. Guess we know now how so that happens.

My favorite aspect of SL, Melody, is Mountain Surfing... standing on the edge of a mountain top - at B. - and surfing down in my bunny slippers. Maybe I can take you mountain surfing some time.


Lara, I think that Melody and others who've joined and visited SL are giving accurate descriptions about what they've experienced. Where the misunderstandings come into the picture is what others are mistakenly reading into it.

I just wanted to explain a bit about B., and the other Isles I'm familiar with so that people aren't mistakenly thinking that B. members or JL are directly involved with the "sex dens" and stuff of that nature :).

When I first joined, I was still feeling shy about people I don't know very well knowing about the AS, and JL did offer the safety-net of not exposing ourselves to anything that could inadvertently hurt anyone (there is still a stigma attached to the AS dx, which is why so many adults are undiagnosed - by choice). He encouraged the use of nyms - if we chose so that our RL existence couldn't be harmed in any way.

Since I've self-outted (here and other places), the following links to more about my time in SL:

http://braintalk.blogs.com/brigadoon/sierras_posts/index.html

[Lara]

Lara, I think that Melody and others who've joined and visited SL are giving accurate descriptions about what they've experienced. Where the misunderstandings come into the picture is what others are mistakenly reading into it.

Yeah, thanks Bobbi. I was aware of that too :)

[Aussie99]

I am most certain that Second Life is fantastic for many people. But I have to back-up Mel's discoveries because I also experienced them for myself. There is XXX sex there,bondage,torture,origies,and alot of very dirty talk. I saw it, I heard it,and I may have some problems but my eyes and ears work fine.

I cannot say it didn't happen when it did. I am sure there is plenty of G rated areas there too,as I saw those first. And probably more good bits that I have yet to discover.There are also plenty of XXX rated areas and eventually you may end up there if you follow someone or teleport

I joined for free,never provididng my credit card details. All I had to do was type in by date of birth showing I am over 18,and the the rest is carte blanche. Realistically a 14 year old,can join with a false date of birth.

But I am sure if you type in that you were 14, there would probably be limited access to some area.

But because a person can register many times as different characters too,I think it would be naive to think that teeagers are not findind there way to the XXX rooms. There's many parts of the sight that are "Highly Pornographic", no different than any other sort of porn.

If you enjoy Second Life (for whatever reason),more power to you, & that's your business and perogative. It's not my place to offer moral judgments on what adult people should and should not do. I am positive I haven't even experienced the other 95% of what the sight offers.I am certain that SL offers all you say it offers. But the fact remains it's also has plenty hardcore sex,slaves,bondage and the like.;) My ONLY concern was that children (teenagers) would end up in those rooms.

Bobbi, I also do not beleive I said nor implied that all SL members have orgies & sex on SL because they can't get any in real life. If someone else said that, than I can understand how it would be upsetting. But there was nothing in my post about that.

I've merely expressed what my concern was, you don't have to agree with me, but you should allow me the opprotunity to also have an opinion.

Some people like coffee, I prefer tea.. Neither is wrong but!

[Bobbi]

Hi, Aussie99 :). Linden Labs has safeguards in place re: teens' use of SL.

A parent can request info. about his/her child's account activity:

Account Activity Request (http://teen.secondlife.com/parents/discipline)

Too, SL offers safety info. for parents (http://teen.secondlife.com/parents) and teens; I didn't check out the info. for teens, since I'm not one, yet is available :).

While it is possible for teens to work-around the safeguards that are in effect, it's also entirely possible for a parent to find out by, e.g., requesting info. about activity on their credit card in SL.

SL requires a credit card to sign up "for verification only":

http://secondlife.com/whatis/plans.php

It takes more than a birth date to create an account in SL.

A teen can say he or she is 14, yet he or she still would not be able to go beyond the teen grid.


This is not true:

"What the HECK?? How can people be banned for talking about politics and illnesses on the old Braintalk forum,but kids can talk dirty and partake in group sex,orgies,and so forth on Second Life?"

I don't know how you arrived at that, Aussie99, but, again, it's your opinion.

[Aussie99]

I only wish I could get my point across...:rolleyes:

Mel & I joined for free, there was no verification or proof of age process. One merely just types in their DOB,and agrees that they are over 18, for the very basic account. This is not my idea of a safeguard.

I am also not very computer savvy, and didn't see any of this high security you speak of.

I am 34 right now, but when I was 14,15,16 and so on.. my parents were to busy to be minding me every moment of everyday. I don't think that every parent is switched on enough to examine the computer usage of their kids.
My friend has a 16 year old son,and she said that he is in his room all weekend on the computer. "Doing what I say?"

"I just told you, on the computer, she said"!:cool:

You may be right,and if so I recant that JL created a virtual orgy world. But somebody has created a Virutal world, with a sub-world that just so happens to also have orgies. Be it Linden Labs, be it JL, be it whomever..

The fact remains that what I experienced last night, was exactly what I wrote about.

But I also do not wish to beat a dead horse anymore.I feel I have expressed not merely an opinion,but my experience on Second Life. I feel to continue on any longer about a sight I have no desire to ever visit again is pointless. I apologise to you Bobbi,and that is all I can say...

[Bobbi]

I don't doubt what your experience was, Aussie99 :).

Please click on the links in my post and that's where you'll see the safeguards about which I wrote :cool:.

For as long as I've been a member, people have had to give a credit card number to join - even the basic/free membership.

Melody also mentioned having to give a credit card:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showpost.php?p=31105&postcount=47

I genuinely apologize if my posting has upset you or anyone. I only wanted to relay a perspective that hasn't been shared in this thread - from another member of SL and one of Brigadoon.

I'll butt out now and let people think as they wish.

[Aussie99]

I am sure that an active parent is able to monitor the usage of a kids account. I promise I joined completely for free, without giving any credit card details.

Why would you provide credit card details for a free membership?

Beleive it or not, I have never purchased anything,joined anything, or sent away for anything that has required me to supply my credit card details. basically my husband told me not to ever do it,and I have respected that. So I wouldn't have supplied second Life with any details at all. I beleive I used my maiden name as well when I joined, instead of my married name too.

But once again, we need to just let this be.. I respect you Bobbi,and I am glad that there are places like Second Life,Braintalk and so forth for people to get together,communicate and so on. And when we care about something very much it hurts to have someone say that they experieneced it differently. I think that's what may have happened here,and that is why I would like not to speak of it anylonger. Second Life is not worth enough to me, to upset you over it,or whomever else. I would much rather keep my opinions to myself, especially since I do not plan on visisting there anymore. With a full time job,kid,PN,anxiety,herniated discs,HBP,and insomnia..Second Life is the least of my worries!!:D

[Bobbi]

((( Aussie99 ))) if you may change your mind about visiting SL some time, let me know, and the invite I made to Melody stands for you, as well :D. (You can look me up by my SL name: Rainmaiden Fairplay.) We can do some activities that are far more mundane than what you and she have seen in SL, I promise.

It's not a bad place to visit (some areas), but I wouldn't want to "live" there :cool:.

[southernlady]

My friend has a 16 year old son,and she said that he is in his room all weekend on the computer. "Doing what I say?"

Then the parent is NOT doing things SMART.

1) TAKE the computer OUT of the bedroom and put it in the family room where it can be seen.

2) Position the computer so that the monitor can be seen if you JUST walk by it. And do so OFTEN.

3) Learn kidspeak:
A parent's primer to computer slang (http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/children/leetspeak.mspx)
Leet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet)
SafeKids.com (http://www.safekids.com/)
Internet Safety (http://www.kidshealth.org/parent/positive/family/net_safety.html)

4) Learn how to use the history feature of your browser. Firefox has a feature that allows you to see EVERY SINGLE page visited for the last few days. The new Microsoft Vista will even have parental controls built in.

But to not know what their kid is doing...no way. My now 21 year old daughter had to LET me read whatever she had on the computer WHENEVER I felt like it til she turned 18. Liz

[Brian]

Liza Jane, I think that a lot more peope are being aware of this forum now, just noticed over 1,000 views on this thread alone.
Brian :)

[Jo*mar]

I did the sign up part to see about it for myself.
I didn't download the program.

I found that-

You only need to give credit card info if you want to get any Linden $$ at the start. I gave NO credit card info.

A kid could easily "fib" about a name and age to register there.

any valid email addy

that's all I saw - in the process of registering.

[Bobbi]

Thank you, Aussie99 and also Jo55 for pointing out that you were able to sign up without a credit card. The purpose in requiring one was for age verification, and, if someone later chose to bump an account to own land, which also increases a stipend.

To me, it is really important that you pointed this out (since, from the time I joined, as I mentioned, I've only seen that a card is required). I don't know if this is a turn in the sign up to entice new members or what it is, but ... I think it's something, too, that L. Labs should reverse and set back in motion the card requirement.

I work my beeeeehind off in RL to better ensure protection for children from online predators, and, as I've even mentioned to some in SL, there is a region I choose not to visit since it uses a name that is one I also know (too well) perps use for a bogus "church" to promote their agenda. The name of the region itself just conjures too much, and I don't want to make associations that don't "fit."

Believe me: I will be asking L. Labs about the hole in age verification.

I also appreciate Southernlady's posting :). We're on the same page, so-to-speak :D.

I actually believe we all are, only our experiences in SL differ.

How it was for me: After I went through the orientation (in SL and just learning how to navigate about), I teleported straight to Brigadoon and stayed there for a while.

Once my comfort zone was in-check, I ventured a little, yet it was to the areas that offer "free" stuff, like furniture. And, from the day I created my avatar, I've only changed it once; I used a "skin" someone gave me, only it didn't feel right. Since that time, I've retained the "look" I chose.

Tomorrow, I'll do a hands-on approach, as well, to registering a new account to see what is required. The concept of no age verification is just foreign to me.

Whatever takes place in regions outside of Brigadoon, Shockproof and Live2Give... just has no bearing on the 3 islands where I've spent time.

I am, at the end of the day, receptive of learning from others and also being honest about my SL experience :).


Editing to add: The region to which I alluded that I won't visit due to how I've seen the same name used outside of SL is that... in SL, I'm not there to "work," but just have some fun and be able to "see" people whom are friends in RL, too :). Maybe I am naive for entrusting that L. Labs will make sure that no one is preying on teens - and I will speak up if something is not right in the verification process :).

Parents aren't handed a manual or required to attain a "license" before giving birth, and folks can offer Net safety ideas until blue in the face, yet... too, I also didn't sign up or permit minor-age person to do so for using SL. But: responsibility still starts at the premise. If someone is offering teen access, then, it needs to be assured that no one violates.

For tonight, I have to let this go, or I will stay awake all night checking everything out :(.

[Jo*mar]

Thanks Bobbi for that post- I am glad you will look into that further.

I don't know how they will really be able to verify or prevent minors from accessing those certain areas - evan a credit card can be "borrowed" for a short time - unless it is followed up with a letter to the card holder??
So then a parent or adult?? would at least know it was used to access SL or any other site??

[Bobbi]

I also don't know what the solution is to the age verification processes that may enable L. Labs to, definitively, ensure that teens are just that and not accessing the "adult-oriented" stuff that has been described in this thread :(. Possibly, it's what you mentioned, Jo55 - a letter addressed for parental verification. That would suit meeee :D.

I do know this, though: What had (formerly) been in place as a potential measure of verification has changed - done away with :(. I knew that I wouldn't be able to sleep until I saw it for myself, and, thus, I did sign up for an account, and zero verification was required. (Too, in all candor, when I also first joined SL, basic accounts also had a sign-up fee.)

Is it progress?

As far as encouraging adults to sign up, yes. But... to have no checks-and-balances on the age verification of teens is very distressing to me, as it is to others. To access the following, one has to be a member of SL and logged in:

SL members discussing age verification:
http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=145573

A general search of the forums re: age verification:
http://forums.secondlife.com/search.php?searchid=1936034

The upside is: People are discussing the topic. Yet... I believe it has to go further than "talk" and I also believe in corporate responsibility ;).

I may know computers, yet I also know that there are teens and others far more savvy than I - and ... :eek: How's a parent to request info. about a his or her teen's use of SL when nothing is required from parents during the sign-up process. Hmmm :(.

I've got to get some sleep tonight, and will think through my thoughts over the weekend, yet I will approach L. Labs with my thoughts on this, and they are not happy thoughts.

[Chemar]

I may know computers, yet I also know that there are teens and others far more savvy than I -
I did sign up for an account, and zero verification was required

Hi Bobbi

I am so glad that you have verified this for yourself, that teens can sign up and access anywhere that a free account will take them (which is waaaaaaaaay too far) in SL:eek:

It would also be very naive of us to think for one moment that today's computer whiz kids dont know the ins and outs of accessing websites that are designated adult only. They know a lot more about computers and cyberspace than most adults do!

I wasnt going to comment directly here,as I realise this IS a sensitive issue for many people and for many and varied reasons...... but since you have seen the ease of sign up for yourself, I will

My teen son and I have a very open relationship and I casually asked him if he or his friends had ever played an online game called Second Life
He looked at me like I was an alien and said NO, he hadnt but Yes, he knew other kids who spend a lot of time there and that he didnt think it was a game I would want him to be involved in. When I asked why, his initial response was "sounds like a dumb game", but then he elaborated some on what others had told him, and I had no doubt that what Aussie and Melody were describing was true.:( and that it is a major talking point for kids!
(ps Southern Lady, yes, I know he hasnt been there cuz I do know how to monitor activity on the computer!)

I am VERY concerned about minors being exposed to stuff that can affect them forever, as well as being preyed upon by adults, whether directly or virtually:mad:

I am glad you will raise these concerns Bobbi, but in truth, my fear is that the commercialization of SL that I read about in that Boston Globe article cited a few pages ago,makes me very doubtful that the free sign up process will be changed.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2006/10/25/leading_a_double_life/

I hope I am wrong.

[MelodyL]

This is what you said:

"(ps Southern Lady, yes, I know he hasnt been there cuz I do know how to monitor activity on the computer"

My response: "do you know what he is doing when he goes to a friend's house?".

This, in no way, means that he is going on Second Life. It means that he has the ability to go on Second Life withou you being aware of it.

Today, with all the computer stuff, parents who are not computer literate (there ar many where I live), do not have a clue what their kids are doing on the computer.

An example (and believe me, it's a whopper), the kid next door to me was 6 when the family moved in. He had behavior problems from the beginning.
The dad, was a young dad with another kid. No mom. The great grandmother raised them. Believe me, the great grandmother wouldn't know a computer from a nintendo.

So they buy Anthony a comuter when he about 12. Of course they would call me in to explain everything for them and hook it up and get him on AOL.

I mistakenly gave him my AOL e-mail and for a long time, he would intant message me and send me inapropriate emails. I cornered his father one day and said "John, you have no on idea what Anthony is doing on the computer". He said "Melody, he's on a computer, what's the big thing?".

I changed my e-mail and that nonsense stopped but one day when he was 14 they called me in because his computer wouldn't work. They rarely went into his bedroom where the computer was. What was on the walls of his room almost got me sick. All kinds of porn. and he was 14. I immediately told his father who started yelling and I put a block on his computer (don't remember what I did to put the block on). But Anthony was so smart and he bragged to me that he got around it and besides, he could always go to his friend's house when the parents were at work and they could do whatever they wanted on the computer. This kid had no sense of moral values whatsoever. Bad bad stuff.

Everybody in the neighborhood couldn't stand him and they were afraid of him. Me? I always was especialy nice to him because he scared me and I wasn't about to be on his bad side.

So what's the ending of the story? Last week, Alan and I were coming home from a morning breakfast out, and we ran into John (Anthony is 17 now).

I asked John "So John, did Anthony ever get that job you were trying to get him"? He looked at me with a sadness and said "Hasn't it been quiet around here lately, you haven't seen Anthony around have you?" I said "what are you talking about?" and he says "Anthony is in jail, he pulled a knife on 5 chinese people who drove around with the cops, they ID'd my son and they have him on surveillance. He's been charged with 5 counts of armed robbery".

I just had a flashback to all the crazy bad stuff he did all his life and John would alway say "Oh, I did bad stuff too, but I turned out all right".

I said "john, what's going to happen to him"? John said "well, they are holding him on $30,000 bail, and I could raise that tomorrow if I wanted to but Anthony is where he needs to be". I went up on the porch and put my arms around him and said "From one parent to another, you need a hug".

Alan just stood there with his mouth open (we lost our son too but not to the prison system). No one on the block knows about my son. We are very private and you just don't go around announcing that you have a son with a mental illness.

I told John. "don't bail him out, he needs to learn a lesson, and this could be the BIG one". He said "but Melody, he doesn't seem remorseful at all, we tried to get the National Guard to take him but they don't want him ".

I wonder why???????????????

So this is what I get from what I'm observed about parents, computers, not being home. Kids will do whatever they want to do. parents have no clue.
It's just that simple. Unless you shadow a kid 24 hours a day, you have to just depend on the values you brought him up with and hope that they stayed in his brain.

But once he goes out in the world and hangs out with parollees, and steals cars, etc. etc. (Anthony did this). well, I guess you don't have a shot.

Very scary what is going on today.

Sorry to deviate from PN but every time I open a paper, all I see is this kid got arrested for this and that and there's a parent crying out loud "My son couldn't have knifed this kid, he's a good boy, he wouldn't that, I know my son".


In fact we would like to think we know everything about our children, but sadly that sometimes is not the case.

Times they are a-changing.

I promise, no more depressing stories. Only funny ones.

Oh the requip did absolutely nothing for Alan last night. He took one 0.5 at 11. was awake with tingling till 12. Took an 0.25 then. helped a bit. I had to massage him all over. finally fell asleep. It was raining cats and dogs and the barometer was nuts. Do you think that affected the requip working?

melody

[nide44]

Just an anecdote.
I have a 20 y.o. (my #3 son) who's now in college. when he was in H.S. we got him a laptop for school work, He'd have the laptop in his room (the family desktop is in the D.R.- traffic by it from L.R. to Kitchen, constantly- monitor in full view. He would sign in to his school system and go from there to anywhere he wanted, He had a blocked ISP account name that was under AOL's parental controls, but he found a way to get into the net without using AOL at all. I still don't know how he did it. I always thought you had to sign in using an ISP to get to the net. He got around that- somehow.
As I said, he's a 3rd yr college student now and never seemed to go any of the 'bad ways'- but I still wonder how he was able to access the net without using our (blocked) ISP (AOL).

[dlshaffer]

Hi Melody - it possibly could have - although I don't know how. I find my PN is worse when the weather changes and like you, we had rain, rain, and more rain last night. I hope tonight will be better for him. Another thing I have tried when I could not sleep and seemed to work pretty good was Advil PM. The Tylenol PM did absolutely nothing for me, but the Advil did. Just a thought.

Diana

[MelodyL]

Oh, I never thought of Advil PM

I shall tell Alan.

Thanks so much Diana.

Regards,

melody

[Chemar]

Hi Melody

yes, you are correct, and that is why I posted that piece about how it would be so very naive to think that kids today dont know how to go anywhere on the web that they want to

and yes, I wouldnt know what my son did at other people's homes, except for the fact that he actually prefers to have his friends come here, which is a BIG relief for mom:o ..........and yes, I am thankful that he has chosen his friends well, and also has this amazingly open relationship with me (and dad). I dont know if it is related to his TS/OCD or just in his nature, but he does feel comfortable to tell us stuff (sometimes more than I wanna know;) ) and I am honored that he feels he can be so direct with me.

I do feel it is SO important for parents to be very involved in their kids lives! Yes, we cant police them 24/7 and I really wouldnt want to do that, they have to learn and they have to grow as individuals, and develop their own responsibility, often by trial and error
But we can give them those solid foundations that hopefully will help them make the right choices, and especially let them always remember that we are not just their parents, but also their best friends

:)

[Jo*mar]

Melody , Does Alan have myofascial pain also?
Triggerpoints or muscle spasms?

The weather really affects those types of things.

[Steve]

really wanted a reasonably secure form of age verification, we'd have it. Face it, we have no privacy today anyway. The NSA listens to your phone calls (yes, yours). Homeland Security will put a hold on your credit card account if you make an unusually large payment, such as paying off your balances (happened to two schoolteachers in Jersey). And anytime you use the Internet, you leave a trail behind for all to see. So, I just don't believe there isn't room for big improvement.

That said, it comes back to personal and parental responsibility. Every time there's a bad story, there's an outcry to "clean up" the entire Web to make it safe for five year olds. That applies not only to "adult" sites, but to photos of Abu Graib, clinical discussions of sexuality and health, political blogs where people occasionally use cusswords, and so on. That's ridiculous.

While it's impossible to do everything, I'm amazed at the number of parents who do nothing. They buy their kids a computer, let him put it in his bedroom instead of a public place, never even try to limit access, and never discuss the responsibilities that come with having a PC.

Come to think of it, when I was growing up, every new privelege came with an annoying lecture about responsibility. Today, I guess those parents who don't take responsibility for themselves can't teach it to their kids.

[Curious]

it's not just at home where they have access steve. they have them in the school. these kids are pretty dang smart. the schools are fooling themselves if they think the one little program they install keeps the kids safe or off the sites they should go on.

[MelodyL]

Hi Jo55:

No, Alan never had any facial pain or spasms or anything like that.

Only his toes. That's where the PN is. had it for 15 years.

We can only cross our fingers that this new neurosurgeon can help him.


Now you talk about spasms. I've had spasms all my life. I'm kind of a neurotic person, (severe dental phobia). so I worry about everything.

Seven years ago I had bladder spasms that took me to every specialist known. Had every test known too!!!

They found nothing. One day it just went away. I can remember exactly where I was when the spasming stopped. I was taking a hot shower.

Now if that is what the hot shower did, then god bless the hot shower.

I had muscle spasms in my chest starting from when I was 24 (the first one), in my mom's living room in Florida. I was sitting on the couch and BAM!!! hit me like a squeeze in the left side of my chest. Didn't happen again for a long time. Then once I was in the kitchen and I reached for something and I knew I was going to get a spasm and I did.

Didn't happen again for years. As a matter of fact, once in a while I get a rectal spasm. In the middle of the night. Happened exactly twice in my life so I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I have spasms, I'm a nervous person. I took a xanax to relax myself. I sat on a heating pad. I went to sleep, it was gone in 10 minutes.

My son, when he was around 6 (we were in the school playground) and he says "oh, something funny just happened in my chest). I recognized it immediately for what it was. We immediately took him to his doctor who examined him and declared "oh that was a muscle spasm". He never had it again.

We're an odd bunch of ducks, aren't we??

melody

[southernlady]

He had a blocked ISP account name that was under AOL's parental controls, but he found a way to get into the net without using AOL at all. I still don't know how he did it. I always thought you had to sign in using an ISP to get to the net.

ALL he had to do was open a REAL browser...not the one that came with AOH#LL.

I immediately told his father who started yelling and I put a block on his computer (don't remember what I did to put the block on). But Anthony was so smart and he bragged to me that he got around it

Only one way to truly BLOCK a computer...take off the power cord and keyboard after you've turned it off and hide those under LOCK and KEY and then keep the key around your neck.

If you can't do that, and you have Windows XP, give the child a GUEST account with LIMITS and then passcode your admin account. Also passcode THE admin account. Better yet, upgrade to Vista when it comes out and learn to use those parental controls. NO one is an admin on that except THE ADMIN. Liz

[dlshaffer]

Found a very interesting article on the MSNBC website:


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15163036

Diana;)

[MelodyL]

Hi Southern lady.

I absolutely love your avatar picture.

Really doesn't matter about blocking he computer for this particular kid. He's in jail for armed robbery and I don't see him getting out any time soon.

be well.
melody

[LizaJane]

Who KNEW what would happen when I started this thread?! Okay, so, now there are loads and loads of folk looking at this thread and posting. I'd like to ask all of you---who has pn here? Does everyone? Please, folk, fill out a profile and put some basic information--it helps if you put your major diagnoses, approximate age, sex, and maybe a few other things there. I find when I am reading folks' posts who I don't remember, I look at their profile in the hopes of being reminded what they have and who they are, and rarely is the info there. So, please identify yourself---are you a pn-ner? Did you put something in your profile to summarize your basic medical issues?

Next, I have some good friends who are high-level Aspies. I like geeky people, and some of them are Aspy-ish. I never meant to cast aspersions, if that was believed. Also, I have one good friend who spends a great deal of time on SL. She, too, is a lovely person. I have nothing against second lifers. But I do object to what JL did to us at OBT. He started a community which he handled carelessly; he used us to raise money which he then used for a purpose other than what he said it was for (namely, he used money we gave to protect the OBT server to buy land at SL and to do whatever else he needed to do there). I resent that he has treated us with zero compassion, zero empathy, and zero respect. I resent that he leveraged us into a well-paying job that is not basically about illness or health at all, but is a profit-centered online game (some call it a world, but basically, what you do there is PLAY).

I'm happy that people feel JL has helped them; but it makes me rather nauseated when people advise me to just "get over it". I feel I was ripped off, and everyone else was too. Again, this man who made a neurological community showed zero concern for that community once he'd leveraged it into a well-paying, status-filled, and fun job.

Now, about SL. One thing I wondered was--how do Avatars have sex? I mean how could someone manipulate an avatar well enough for an interaction that specific. It seems that people write mini-programs, called macros, and when you decide to have sex with someone, you basically turn on the macro that does what you want. My friend who spends a lot of time there writes macros and designs objects there.

It's important to remember that SL is NOT a not-for-profit enterprise with any dedication to the welfare of its customers. It just wants customers, wants them to spend real money to buy linden dollars, and wants them to come back. Sex and deviance and porn sell big, and SL has lots of that to offer. It has no particular vested interest in making sure that only adults go to adult areas unless their pocketbooks get hurt by the complaints.

Major investors are investing in it: the list is full of big-time funders, beginning with the guy who wrote Lotus, but extending widely. I can't remember offhand the other folk, but there are many with big bucks. It's all about the linden dollars/real dollars.

Okay, folk, if you don't have pn and have been posting here, I'm curious---what brought you to this thread? What's kept you here? Not that I am disinviting anyone AT ALL. I LOVE THIS THREAD. I love how many people are exploring and talking and joining the talk. It's fabulous. But I'm curious.

Melody---where are you going tomorrow? Can you take pictures for us?

[Lara]

Okay, so, now there are loads and loads of folk looking at this thread and posting. I'd like to ask all of you---who has pn here? Does everyone? Please, folk, fill out a profile and put some basic information--it helps if you put your major diagnoses, approximate age, sex, and maybe a few other things there. I find when I am reading folks' posts who I don't remember, I look at their profile in the hopes of being reminded what they have and who they are, and rarely is the info there. So, please identify yourself---are you a pn-ner? Did you put something in your profile to summarize your basic medical issues?

Okay, folk, if you don't have pn and have been posting here, I'm curious---what brought you to this thread? What's kept you here? Not that I am disinviting anyone AT ALL. I LOVE THIS THREAD. I love how many people are exploring and talking and joining the talk. It's fabulous. But I'm curious.

Well, I made one post, does that count? lol
I've been reading in PN for years (on that errr "other board"), but I don't read all the messages. I read a lot of the forums because if I listed all the conditions and symptoms that myself and my children have, we'd cover a lot of them. I do not intend to list them in a profile. I wasn't aware that was needed. ???

I also didn't realize one needed to have a condition in order to post on particular forums. My former ex-father-in-law had Peripheral Neuropathy and I nursed him for years when he got to the stage he couldn't walk at all. I've been experiencing strange symptoms in the past 2 years since a fall. I saw a thread here where people were talking about lack of feeling in the feet and falls. I was very interested because of what's been going on with for me in recent years.

As for putting something in my profile listing conditions. I'm sorry, I have never done that anywhere on the internet and don't intend to start.

Edited to add: BTW, I understand that people are hurt. What I don't understand is that the thread started to sound a little like that game "chinese whispers"... where one person whispers something on to the next person and so forth... in the end the whole meaning and and reality of what happens is lost. e.g. forum users linked to JL purely because they use the other forum, linked to Brigadoon, linked to Second Life, suddenly linked to cybersex. Some of what was said on this thread was shockingly incorrect.

[mrsD]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/mrsdoubtyre/AHHH_runningman-1.gif

[Jo*mar]

I think some members just notice when a thread is always near the top in the new posts section- so they click to see what is being discussed.
And then decide to join in.
:cool:

[glenntaj]

--anyone specifically NEEDS to have peripheral neuropathy to post on this board or in any particular thread in it, but it is true that this thread has little to do with neuropathy. It's become as long as it has because the topic is interesting and hits a nerve with many who post here (and/or at the old Braintalk), and the participants in general are people who have, or know others who have, neuropathy in one form or another.

Still, it does seem this is the type of thread which might be better placed in some other section--not only because the topic ranged far from neuropathy, but also because it would be great if others who don't frequent this section of the board could also join in. Wonder if we could "transplant" it whole onto Forum Feedback or some other appropriate area (suggestions?).

[MelodyL]

I'm going to be descriptive because once I found out how it's done I was absolutely fascinated.

Let's star with the avatar. When you join for free, you design your own avatar. it's a plain body, male or female, you dress it, you design the clothes, how short, how long, how tight, how loose. You design the shoes, how high the heels, you put on socks or not. You put on skirt or pants.

You design your hair, your face, your nose. To the tips of your ears. When you design your avatar it brings up the various pieces of the body and you have a slide which you slide from left to right, which gives you a short body or a long body, short ears, long ears...............it's the same for clothes or anything on your body. That's how you determine the exact size. By sliding the little thing back and forth. When you have created our body. You click on save and there is your little avatar (a representative of you in SL).

Now if you decide to do the sex thing, you teleport to a place where you can do this. Because you have a free basic account, your avatar looks like a manniquin. Very robotic. There are countless ways to have sexual adventures. Any place; you go you will see blue little balls and pink little balls. If you are female, you click on the pink and your avatar will assume a female position. People date in Second LIfe so people come in as couples and their avatars go on dates, go to dinner, make love etc. But when they are making love, it's not real looking. It's like watching two manniquins make love. You know it's not real because the movements are always the same no matter where you go,

It's fun to look at for a while but then you realize the main thing that these people back at home on their computers are doing is typing in text.
So the main thing about a free account is, it's kind of like text sex chat.. when you look on the screen, you can actually laugh because it's manniquins going at it.

HOWEVER......... and here's where it changes. When you pay for stuff on Second Life. You can pay for a new body. You can customize that body so that it looks completely human. Very tiny, but very human looking. I was standing at a beach on some island having jus teleported to various locations because the graphics are absolutely so amazing, you think you are at an actual beach. As the waves were rolling in, some woman appeard out of nowhere and she was dressed in the flowing outfit, with a tiara, and jewerly and black high heels (she looked absolutely nothing like my avatar). I said Hi, your outfit is gorgeous and she explained that she designs avatars and costumes in second life and she makes a living that way. But people pay many lindens to look like her.

Then I teleported to other place and I saw many many men and women who actually looked like men and women. Then, and this answers Liza Jane's question about how avatars can actually have real sex?. When you look human in second life, you also design your avatar to move like a human.

I saw a blanket on the floor of some beach. I had no idea what this blanket did but there was a sign over the blanket that said 50 lindens for 15 minutes. Now all I saw was an empty blanketg. Well two human looking avatars sat down, laid down and did what two people in love would do. And it was completely human looking. Never saw such a thing in all my life.

I then understood that there are people like myself who go to Second life because we are curious, maybe we want to do the free slots, and we have an avatar that looks like a manniquin. Then there are the others (PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY INTO COMPUTER CODES, MACROS, WHATEVER). and want to look like humans with spectacular costumes and they go to bars and drink, and dance (looks real too), make love like the real thing. I went dancing once, laughed my head off.

So Second Life will be a big hit for the people who actually prefer to live their lives in a virtual world. Fascinating believe me.

Believe me, I just gave you a really good interpretation of Second Life.

be well

Melody

[dlshaffer]

Hi Melody - how did Alan sleep last night?

Diana

[LizaJane]

Computers are tricky and it's easy to offend or sound like you're saying something that's not quite the way it sounded in your head. Sometimes I feel people get indignant about something they're read, when the writer was clearly saying something else. SO....Lara, even though you copied what I wrote:
Okay, folk, if you don't have pn and have been posting here, I'm curious---what brought you to this thread? What's kept you here? Not that I am disinviting anyone AT ALL. I LOVE THIS THREAD. I love how many people are exploring and talking and joining the talk. It's fabulous. But I'm curious.

You answered:I also didn't realize one needed to have a condition in order to post on particular forums. It kind of implies that I was asking non-pners to go away, when I certainly was not.

Glenn--you know me, and I feel hurt that you'd imply I was asking people to leave: I was not aware anyone specifically NEEDS to have peripheral neuropathy to post on this board or in any particular thread in it you said.

I don't want to feel defensive that I'm a nice person, and I feel I have to here. So, everybody....I am a nice person.

Last, about profiles and such. I'm not demanding anybody do anything; I am suggesting that if your signature does not contain something which gives a clue about you, you could put something in your profile that does. I'ts NICE to be able to know a bit about who one is talking to, when one's memory is not all that fabulous.

Lara, you say: As for putting something in my profile listing conditions. I'm sorry, I have never done that anywhere on the internet and don't intend to start. and I feel like you're implying I was asking for you to post very personal info. I was not. Really. I am a nice person. Really.

I have a particular interest in PN; that's one of my conditions, and it's nice to know who else is here with PN. Or whose father or hubby or friend has it. Just to round out the picture. I put my major problems in my signature.

Anyway, I'm done defending myself. If my suggestion feels helpful to anyone else, great; if not, that's okay, too.

And yes, this thread got WAY off topic, but I found it became an item of amusement embedded in the pn community, and I have enjoyed reading about everyone's antics and perceptions of SL. Really, it feels rather like a travelogue, and it's got a lot of good humor to it. It's brought me lots of smiles and chuckles.

Okay, 'nuf on this. Again: not telling anybody to go away; not telling anybody they must give away precious personal info; not telling anybody anything. Just making suggestions and being curious. Wow.

[southernlady]

I've had PN for 7 years OFFICALLY (will be 8 in Feb) but had it LONG before I was diagnosed. Back then I frequented the message boards at The Neuropathy Association (http://www.neuropathy.org). And then THEIR server went down for MONTHS. When the message boards finally came back online about a year later, it wasn't user friendly any longer. Still isn't and they no longer keep archives. The site itself was only down a few months but their boards were down MUCH longer...

And we paid money there to JOIN the association...

So BT isn't the first forum to have major issues...just the one most of you know about.

I signed onto OBT yesterday, as was stunned to find how many of the old pn forum were posting there. I became concerned that to follow what's going on with my old friends, and help new ones, I'd have to check both places daily, and actually belong to OBT, which I'm loathe to do.

LisaJane, if you are so against BT, why bother posting there? Yes, you say it's to reconnect with old friends and help new ones but running down the place doesn't do that. Holding a grudge doesn't help anyone and will actually make your PN worse...and you are holding a WHOPPER of one against John Lester, who to be brutally honest, doesn't care...so move on and like others have said, get over it for your OWN health. Stress only makes PN worse. Liz

[MelodyL]

To: DLShaffer:

Alan took his requip 20 minutes before bedtime at around 11 p.m. I found him up at 1:30 on the comuter, wide awake. I gave him a xanax and he went out like a light.

He has to do what he has to do. He needs his sleep so he takes a xanax.
This friday is the visit to the neurosurgeon.

Then we at least will know what's up.
Will update.

melody

[glenntaj]

And don't worry, LJ--I actually think you may have interpreted what I said in the same way you were just mentioning--sometimes, in writing on these boards, the way a message reads, without the context of tone or body language, gives an impression different from what the writer actually intended.

I was trying to say (I think) that there's no rule against posts/threads way-off the topic of neuropathy on a neuropathy board--especially here at Neurotalk, where we're trying to have an atmosphere that is not as restrictive as the old one many people chafed under. I do find it easier, just in terms of making decisions about what to read/respond to, for such posts to be labelled as off-topic, or somehow distinguished from those that are neuropathy specific, but I'm quite happy to go through all the posts anyway without worrying if the topic may shift away from neuropathy. If being able to jump to any topic in any thread makes people more comfortable and more liable to post, I'm down with (or is it up for?) that. With my history (and many of you know it, chuckle) far be it from me to call for any sort of "posting rules".

I do think the thread has become about so many more issues, though, that it should be reprised in some other section, so more people who don't usually come here could see it and add their comments. I bet there are a lot of other people with takes on Second Life, or JL, that we don't usually run into here.

So I apologize, Liza Jane (who IS a nice person). :)

(I think I'm a nice person too, most of the time. What I can also be, as LJ, I think, can relate to, is damned persistent. Ah, what the heck--bulldog stubborn. It has served me well in doctor's offices--and, more often than not, on boards as well. But I imagine it's not always everyone's cup of tea.)

[MelodyL]

Want to know why?? yesterday I bought 3 lbs of ground up turkey. I planned to make turkey patties, and freeze them, which is what I do all the time.
So when Alan wants his turkey burger, with no salt tomato sauce and 3 splendas, he can have it when he wants.

Well, when I got home I found out that I had purchaed 3 lbs of frozen ground turkey. It was in the process of thawing out.

So what was I to do?? I thawed it over night, and this morning, made a 3 lb turkey meatloaf with chopped carrots, zucchinis celery and onions. with everything else you put into a meatloaf...

Alan had to mix the whole thing because my hands don't work sometimes as I have arthritis.

So there I was with this 4 lbs or so of a meatloaf ready to be cooked.

I cooked it, took it out. It was scrumptious. But what the heck are Alan and I going to do with this big fat meatloaf?

It would take us all week to eat it, I heard that if you freeze meatloaf, it doesnt' taste the same. So here I was in my kitchen with this big tremendous meatloaf.

So I cut it in half. Put it in a tinfoil thing. Covered it, went outside to my upstairs neighbors who are from lebanon and the nicest people. The guys' wife died of mad cow disease 4 years ago and he's alone most of the time.

I ring their bell and you should have seen the look on one of the daughter's faces when I said "you have to do me a favor, you have to take this meatloaf, I made 4 lbs of it and who on earth can eat this in my house, we are just two people". She burst out laughing and said "wow, sure, thanks".

so I fed all the people upstairs. Good feeling, believe me.

Melody

see, no more second life talk.
Now we're talking about meatloaf......

[Chemar]

((((Melody))))
you sure are a nice person to do that!:p

'smatter of fact, all the folks here seem like REAL nice persons:D

[Jo*mar]

I think you are all nice people & very often it is just the way things happen to be worded or the way the words are interpreted that seems to cause a bit of trouble sometimes.
but if we can all give each other the benefit of the doubt once in a while- life will be less stressful.

[Bobbi]

Hi, LizJane :). I'm sorry I didn't include my med. stuff in a signature or in a profile. It's just been my preference not to do so; I don't want it staring me in the face after I've posted each time. Some days, I'd rather not be reminded; I've already a scooter, a wheelchair and cane staring me in the face every day.

I've Ankylosing Spondylitis (AS) on top of AS (Asperger's Syndrome). I do have PN, along with obturator neuropathy (which predominantly effects my left - groin, thigh and knee). In addition? Well, since we were asked to share:

I've lived with arthritis since I was a child but it wasn't formally dx'd until I was 22. My first "bout" with it was costochondritis during a college yoga class, of all places, and it felt like I was having a heart attack. I was excused from the class and all I got to sit around doing was watching the other students; it wasn't a fun way to get any grade :(.

I've been through a ton of x-rays, bone scans, MRIs, CTs, and a couple rounds with EMGs/NCVs, along with a host of ESIs and RFs for my spine.

I see a PCP, rheumatologist, neurosurgeon, neurologist, PM doc and cardiologist (for symptomatic MVP, PVCs, and SVT - I think that one is) and I take Toprol-XL 50 MGs a day to regulate the ticker a bit better.

I'm doing my best to assist my doctors in their withdrawal; I don't want to see them! but they got this thing about thinking I need to see them once in a while to monitor everything. Fine... but, I do believe, I won't need a costume for Halloween. I may glow in the dark thanks to the radiation :eek:. (I actually know that it's low-level yet ... the cumulative effect from years and years worth and so many tests... ?)

In addition, it was by a fluke (a mistake in tests - FSH and Estradiol levels - that led my doctors to believe I was post-menopausal) that my doctors sent me for a DEXA scan and discovered that I've got osteoporosis. Even being mistakenly informed that I was post-menopausal was far better than doctors scaring me for several months with the scare that they suspected I had cancer; test after test proved that wrong, but the fear was there and, whenever they mention something that brings it up, I don't hestitate to remind them about the emotional trauma they created with their "it might be cancer, no it isn't, it could be cancer, no it's not, it ...." They were just flatly wrong and had a difficult time accepting it.

In addition, I have another "O" word: Osteoarthritis and DJD (Degenerative Joint Disease).

There is something wrong with my peroneal nerves, only my neurologists are not sure what it is and said it could take about 10 years for them to know. Maybe that's like having arthritis as a child and the years' delay in its dx, too :(.

The current medications I take are: Toprol (as I mentioned, and which reminds me that I've another cardio appoint. in few days), Activella (to - it is hoped by my doctors - slow the progression of bone loss and to control bleeding; yes, I'm a bleeder and spent an un-gawly amt. of hours in ER for it).

I also take codeine and use Stadol on an as needed only basis. And, those medications were a total pain in the rump to get authorized for how my doctors wanted it Rx'd. Even with three doctors giving the go-ahead, my insurance had some putz-wit seeking to over-ride. What finally happened? It took a HR woman and the CEO which provides the bulk of my insurance to issue a directive to my insurance and get my medication filled as written, not as insurance wished. In that interim, though, I did it the insurance's way and spent a month throwing up - due to my body not getting along with Oxycontin.

Ohhh, a couple years ago, my doctors suspect I had a TIA.

How to summarize this for a profile? I dunno. Nor do I want to :cool:.

I hope that I may have addressed some of what you were wanting to know.

P.S.: I posted about my TN in the TN forum; I have arthritis in my jaw bone and TMJ, which my dentists knew before they decided it was okay to force my mouth to remain open for a dental procedure and blowing out the 5th cranial nerve. And, I posted about vagal nerve response in this thread:

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=1870

In extreme pain, my body responds by wanting to pass out. But that's only when it feels like someone is trying to tear my legs off my body.

[MelodyL]

jjjeeeeeeezzzzz. All this and Aspergers too???

boy, you have been through the mill, haven't you, you poor thing.

Well, it's very nice to meet you and hope you at least have one pain free day once in a while. I'd love to serve you a piece of my meatloaf.

Take care,
melody

[Bobbi]

It's getting better, Melody :).

I've whittled the "wanna see you" docs list down to the "gotta see" list :D. I forgot to mention my weekly one, though: she's my chronic pain management counseling doc, and she's cool.

I did find that extreme weather (farther south in California) helped immensely when I spent a week there this summer.

Too, I read what you did, Melody - and that was super nice of you :cool:. It reminds me of my neighbors. No matter how many times it's done, it always feels so special when one brings over something home-made. (I get some great food; on one side, the neighbor is from Pakistan, and her father used to own a bakery in San Francisco; on the other side, the family is from India and, wow, can they also cook!)

It's nice having neighbors - such as yourself. Kindness goes a long way ;).

[LizaJane]

You guessed it, SL.

I spoke tonight with my good friend whose wife spends many hours a day on SL. He gave me another take on the thing.

First, he said, it's a place where people are encouraged to be in role, whatever role they want, and however they want. He described it as a real place to play, the kind of play we did as children, but have been blocked out of as we have grown up. The kind of play even children don't do as much of anymore, as their play is more scripted by activities, TV shows, and fixed games.

So, he said, his wife loves to go on and play in role, and people enjoy interacting with her, in role, a lot. But at the same time that they are doing this, playing, they are getting to know each other---through play, much as we did as children. When people find they play well together, they want to add other ways of communicating. SL has several different communications systems which work in parallel with the avatar play. You can im, use voice, and other things he didn't fully describe. So, once you're playing well, you'll generally find you want to get to know the people you are playing with.

You email them, im then, and move more and more personally, if things go well. So she now has phone calls daily from friends she made on SL. (She's from Canada, and just moved to the US two years ago when they married, and is short on local friends). Some people have lived close by, but some are from all over the world, yet they feel they are becoming friends. They talk with each other and play with each other on several levels at once, in character or role, when they feel like it, or as they are in RL, as they feel like it.

It sounded not so much different from what happens here. We meet online in a persona of illness, defined narrowly by how we relate through illness. Some of us begin to pm each other, when things seem salient and appealing. Some we may develop email or phone relationships with, and some, we might even meet.

From Braintalk, I've met a core group of people who I feel clearly are friends. No, not like friends I've had since elementary school, but still, real friends. And that's how my friend feels about her Second Life friends--they've become quite real to her, in her life.

And, not to be undervalued: While Second Life is not a game, it IS play. And we sure do need more of that, just pure imaginative play. So, I've learned a new way to think about it.

Melody---Play to your heart's content; let it be an antidote to all the pain you have in your day. Just as your meatloaf is an antidote to all the pain of your neighbors. Though, truth be told, I'm for dovebars. ;)

[Kamie]

I have looked at SL, and to be honest, it is not nearly addictive as World Of Warcraft. Now that is a game that will suck in anyone.

[MelodyL]

Your children are beautiful.

I got a kick out of your son's expression. He looks like he's thinking "go ahead, make my day"
lol

melody

[Silverlady]

Has Alan seen the neurosurgeon yet? I've been anxious to see what he said. Thinking about you both...
Billye

[MelodyL]

Believe me, as soon as know something, I'll update here.

Be well,
Melody

[nide44]

You guessed it, SL.
.......... it's a place where people are encouraged to be in role, whatever role they want, and however they want. He described it as a real place to play, the kind of play we did as children,.......... at the same time that they are doing this, playing, they are getting to know each other---through play, much as we did as children..............While Second Life is not a game, it IS play.

I don't think I wanna go there, I've enough problems here, not creating other ones.............but if I did go there........I'd wanna be a Pirate, a Privateer sailing the high seas and capturing booty all through the Carib.- and swashbuckling, and wenching, and drinking, and doing all the physical things I'd never really gotten to do when I was younger - & do the things I'd planned to do when I retired - that I'll never get to do now, because PN won't even let me take the dog for a walk without paying for it for the rest of the day.
And I'm a piker compared to others here, because I can still walk and at least try to live a normal life, addicted-no dependant on drugs for the rest of my life.
But living that kind of vicarious comic book character on-line wouldn't be healthy for me, because I'm not Autistic or have Aspergers.
Its nice that JL concocted a place where he could make money off of ("make a living"??) from those sufferers. But he's not gonna make it offa me. I'll go to OBT as a lurker, & maybe participate, but it will be for the people who were kind enough to help me when I needed it so much, and maybe to put in my 2 cents worth to newbies that find it today.
But I now feel more comfortable here.
I hope the Doc John lets this site stay for a long time to come. But we were bitten (some thought, very badly) and might not be as totally ignorant and trusting in our ability to have a 'home'.
Mankind's inherent ability to play the games behind the scenes for personal profit and gain - many times finds the way to rear its ugly head.
I'm surprised that there is even the word 'altruism' in the languages of the world. I'm sure that the concept doesn't even exist in soome cultures, as well as the concept of dishonesty doesn't in others (albeit remote and aboriginal - difficult to find).
Until then, I'll just close the closet door and take my 'blankie & my Binkie' and try to remember that in my private world - ethics, honesty, & reverence are much more prefered. I guess that's not real, either- but its one that I can be comfortable daydreaming in.

[~KELLWANTSANSWERS~]

Well,i went and checked it out too!!!
My comp is apparently outdated..LOL
I could'nt view anything..Oh well,i guess i got enough mental illusions from melody anyway..heehee
I have been reading this thread for a while,yet i never posted!
I am a fellow pn'er as well.I have it in my neck/shoulders/feet:(
I have my info on my siggy because i know people forget also.
I am one of those that forget..LOL
I was VERY happy to see this did'nt turn into an argument and everyone was able to resolve their differences and get along!
Very refreshing:)

[dahlek]

upon learning...well, as vivid an imagination as I have it grabbed me about as much as gambling....IF you don't get any gratification or substance rite away...it seems I guess boring - the way I find gambling to be Simple stuff is too boring, other stuff too much to learn how to 'play'. I've done lots of other real complex stuff in my life but, this simply doesn't grab me.

Kell, Bob - why do we need artificial tools to get to where our own minds can simply take us? I for one, far prefer the view in my 'MIND'S EYE'! It's a whole lot easier too, no buttons to push!


Pain free moments everyone! - j

[MoeNeigh]

to this forum. Otherwise, I wouldn't have known about it. I just wanted to say hi, and report that my PN has been virtually gone for over a year and half. Large doses of methylcobalamin (5 mg AM, 5 mg PM) for 3½ months seems to have done the trick (thanks to rose). I still have a little bit of a "fuzzy" souvenir at times around the toes, but no pain. Nerves seem to have been mostly repaired. All other concomitant issues, including anxiety and depression have long disappeared. While diagnosed as idiopathic PN in February 2005, I am fairly certain that mine was caused by a largely vegan diet, and long periods of no B12 supplementation.

BTW, I have reduced the dose of methylcobalamin, but I'm still taking a total of at least 2 mg daily. I plan to continue taking it regularly from now on.

Best wishes for continuing improvement to all.

George

[Silverlady]

George it is so great to "see" you. I'm glad my link did someone some good. The news about your PN is wonderful!! And I'm so glad you came back to post about it all. I know this will make Rose's day. It does mine. Stay in touch.

Billye

[rose]

And hooray for the huge improvement. :)

rose

[Jo*mar]

MoeNeigh-
love the foal avatar - is it yours?

[mrsD]

I LOVE to read improvement posts!:D

I am glad you found us. Please stick around and become a helper here?:)