BrainTalk update from Mr. Lester (through David Hosobuchi)

[ZombieSlayer]

Howdy folks :)

Mr. Lester is now back home in Boston after traveling for his job with Linden Labs. He will be getting to work on restoring BrainTalk and will have an updated message at BrainTalk soon.

That is all I know. I will come back and update this thread when I know more.

[annelb]

Thanks for the update.
Anne

[anonymous]

First, I would like to express my sincere appreciation to Dr. Grohol for his implementation of this temporary BrainTalk2 site and to those who are “spreading the word” about it. I too, as all others, have been very perplexed regarding the long outage of the BrainTalk site and the lack of updates as to its return.

This post is just to list some “observations” regarding the apparent activities of Mr. Lester based on his posts on other web pages (URLs) that he owns/controls. I am not attempting to imply anything by this post, I will just let others draw their own conclusions.

Other URLs that Mr. Lester owns/posts to are as follows:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pathfinderlinden/
http://slprofiles.com/slprofiles.asp?id=3166
http://zero.hastypastry.net/pathfinder/

JL appears to post lots of photographs of his activities on his flickr page, with photo updates on nearly a daily basis. Many of his photo sets appear to be from his recent travels, however it appears that at least some of the photo sets are also from around the Boston area (where he lives), such as the “Artbeat 2006” set, with the local events taking place within the time period that BrainTalk has been down.

Again, I am not attempting to imply anything here, just listing some observations. We are all greatly indebted to JL for the development and support of BrainTalk over these past several years. However if the responsibilities/interests of his new job are now such that there is a support void that will continue to impact the 50,000+ BrainTalk users, perhaps it would be in order to request that the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) Information Technology (IT) department again accept responsibility for this site. (Note: I have no idea if JL would agree to this or if MGH would even want this responsibility again).

Sincerely,
A concerned user.

[lisa6wks]

You know, I am not surprised that you posted as "anonymous" because you have a lot of nerve. Perhaps if you don't like the way John is running things, YOU can do it! John is entitled to have a life for crying out loud. He understands how important these boards are to people, but sometimes you just have things to do.

Put your money where your mouth is:mad:

Lisa

[Bobbi]

((( Thank you, ZombieS. ))) for the info., as well as for the temporary flash chat rooms you set up (and server space you're donating for the chat system to work). Your thoughtfulness hasn't gone unnoticed :cool:.


Howdy folks :)

Mr. Lester is now back home in Boston after traveling for his job with Linden Labs. He will be getting to work on restoring BrainTalk and will have an updated message at BrainTalk soon.

That is all I know. I will come back and update this thread when I know more.

[anonymous]

Thank you for your reply. No negativity was intended and yes, he certainly deserves to have a life. The overall lack of updates over these past several weeks however has been perplexing. We will all look forward to the site coming back up. :)

You know, I am not surprised that you posted as "anonymous" because you have a lot of nerve. Perhaps if you don't like the way John is running things, YOU can do it! John is entitled to have a life for crying out loud. He understands how important these boards are to people, but sometimes you just have things to do.

Put your money where your mouth is:mad:

Lisa

[Jeannie]

After the last big crash on BT we all donated money for it to be fixed so it wouldn't happen again.

So much for it not happening again :rolleyes: and for not keeping members updated.

[Jane]

It's been quite a while since the last crash and resulting upgrading of the equipment..........by internet standards. This was no great surprise.

Jane

[Jeannie]

July 20, 2006






Greetings! We've had a pretty major crash here at BrainTalk involving both software and hardware. I'm working on bringing everything back up as soon as possible, so please rest assured that BrainTalk will be back in a matter of days!:rolleyes: :confused:



In the meantime, I will be using this status page to keep everyone updated on progress. :confused: :rolleyes:




I'm terribly sorry for this downtime. It happened at the worst possible time for me (while I was traveling), and I know how important BrainTalk is to everyone. I will make sure it comes back online ASAP (good opportunity for me to upgrade some of the software, too!), and thank you for your patience.




-John Lester, BrainTalk Communities

braintalk@gmail.com

[BobbyB]

to john lester,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

to john lester, can we come up with a new way to moderate the ALS forum ?

i know you gotta have rules and your gonna ban people that do wrong.
but can we have a say in this ?
some how vote or do polling on who gets banned and how long.

i know there is some people that don't know when to shut up but you have to remember there sick or something.

there has to be a better way ?

please think about this.
THANK YOU FOR BT.

Bobby B
DX/94 ALS

[BobbyB]

when the mods ban someone and we question it and the mods reply with a warning to get back in line or you'll be banned or the mods ban you for a week or two, this is not right.....

[ZombieSlayer]

Latest update from BrainTalk


UPDATE 08.24.06 It has taken me much longer than expected to at least get the front page here and chatrooms running. I ran into the need to update the operating system, which caused more problems (the OS is broken to the point where I cannot run incremental updates). I'm waiting for the latest full version of OSX Server on CDs so I can do a full wipe of the drives and reinstall everything from scratch. Disks should arrive in the mail on Sept 5th the latest. Once that's here, I'll install the newest version of vBulletin and recover as much of the data from backups as I possibly can. I'm so sorry the system has been down for as long as it has. Every step forward I've taken to try and restore things seems to knock me 2 steps back, plus I have been travelling for work a great deal the past month. But I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for hanging in there. To get to the chatrooms, please visit: http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/chat/flashchat.php


I'm thinking that you use your BT name and pw to get in.

[Pamster]

http://www.cyber-soup.com/pamster/flashchattutorial.html If anyone is new to the chat and wanting to see a preview of the features it has this tutorial I wrote has screenshots and details on how to use the chat.

Thank you so much ZombieSlayer for setting up the temporary flash chat, we really appreciated it more then words can say. :)

[aklap]

Thanks for the update!!

UPDATE 08.24.06 It has taken me much longer than expected to at least get the front page here and chatrooms running. I ran into the need to update the operating system, which caused more problems (the OS is broken to the point where I cannot run incremental updates). I'm waiting for the latest full version of OSX Server on CDs so I can do a full wipe of the drives and reinstall everything from scratch. Disks should arrive in the mail on Sept 5th the latest. Once that's here, I'll install the newest version of vBulletin and recover as much of the data from backups as I possibly can. I'm so sorry the system has been down for as long as it has. Every step forward I've taken to try and restore things seems to knock me 2 steps back, plus I have been travelling for work a great deal the past month. But I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for hanging in there. To get to the BrainTalk chatrooms, please visit: http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/chat/flashchat.php

There should be a set of OSX disks that came with the new server [April 2005]. Couldn't the original set of disks be used to wipe out the server and then use Apple's Software Update to get it current from there? That'd get the server up and running sooner than 9/5/06

[ZombieSlayer]

Thanks for the update!!



There should be a set of OSX disks that came with the new server [April 2005]. Couldn't the original set of disks be used to wipe out the server and then use Apple's Software Update to get it current from there? That'd get the server up and running sooner than 9/5/06

It's my understanding that the OS was faulty/buggy to begin with. BrainTalk isn't the only forums to go down running this version of MAC OS.

[ZombieSlayer]

I don't know if there is any truth in this.

Ok is that clear? Hope so ;) :D

I got an email (actually quite a few) from people who were in BrainTalks chat rooms sometime yesterday evening. Chat Moderator #1 came on and said that Mr. Lester plans on having the forums up sometime during the weekend and that the discs did arrive on time.

Again, I don't know if this is true or a rumor....but it's the latest news I've heard.

Posted here because...well it's my update thread :D

[Chemar]

ZS you are a hoot:D (and a very helpful hoot at that:) )

BTW, where is Cagey? you seem kinda errr incomplete without your stalker;)

[ZombieSlayer]

I dunno where Cagey is :(

[unknown]

After the last big crash on BT we all donated money for it to be fixed so it wouldn't happen again.

So much for it not happening again :rolleyes: and for not keeping members updated.

The vast majority of members did not donate. There are tens of thousands of members and a very small proportion donated (I was one).

[LizaJane]

ZS, I never knew you of of you before BT2 and these threads, and you're a cool guy and I like you. I can tell you really like John, and feel protective of him, and I can tell that you don't want any of us to get hurt or have unrealistic expectations. You've actually done an incredible job of being tactful, diffusing tension, and reassuring as best you can.

But I'm mad at John. I don't know him, I used to think he was the greatest thing since buttered bread for bringing us braintalk, which helped me through getting diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy, and more recently, making a decision for spinal surgery. He brought me something wonderful.

But this is what I'm thinking. Braintalk is a community, a virtual community. John has become an expert in online communities. He LOVES Second Life. I have a friend who is very into it, and she finds it fun and challenging and enjoys the play she gets with it. John clearly loves it and has a group of friends, a life as an avatar, and a really good time being creative with it. So he's actually been able to get a job working for the people who make the product he loves so much, The ______labs. (I don't recall their name). He's been able to market himself to him as an expert in virtual communities and get hired and do something he loves.

But we're not actually a virtual community. We're not avatars with identities we've adopted. We're real people who exist beyond this board. And he's dropped this community cold for his community of avatars and their creators.

So, I'm angry at him for treating us like avatars, for using his work with us as a stepping stone to doing something more fun and more creative, and for having ego involved here which prevents him from just handing the thing over to someone who feels more passionately about it.

I mean, yeah, "anonymous" posts over and over on this thread suggesting we check the flickr sites where John posts his photos of his life. No ill intentions, she/he says. Nothing meant by it. But of course, that's a bit disingenuous. Anonymous has feelings about John blatantly showing how much fun he is having during his summer while he has not been attending to us. And I feel the same.

And it's frustrating that he really doesn't care that much in a personal way. I mean, look, here's Doc John, and he posts, he reads what's happening here himself, and he answers people's questions. He's transparent. John has made his little community of us, and keeps information to himself about the community, shows little empathy, and is treating us like we're no different from the characters in Second Life.

ZS--you've worked with him and you like him, and you're terrific here walking a fine line. But aren't you a bit mad yourself?

I mean, you know, I want to reach the guy and shake him a bit. I imagine an intervention, like one does with an alcoholic family member, where everyone in the family, all the friends, everybody who cares--corners the person and confronts him with the impact of his alcohol use on the people who care. I imagine somehow geting into his office with a bunch of us and letting him know how he's hurt us.

But I've looked at his Second Life profile, and the only way to get an appointment with John, is as an avatar, in the game, in the office he has there.

And that's a bit too much work.

You think there's any way we can have an impact on him and get him to care enough to do the right thing by us?

Also, you know, when he last asked for money, I was not cheap with him. I paypalled over to him $1000. I've never given that much to any one charity--it's huge for me. But you know, Braintalk had done so much for me and was doing so much for others, that I was happy to support it and assure its survival.

I mean what is with the guy?

LizaJane

[ZombieSlayer]

Hi LizaJane :)

Mad....no not mad. Frustrated and confused most definately. I just don't understand the lack of communication and interaction.

I have no doubt that a lot of folks are mad at him, and I can see why.

As for what we can do to make an impact in his life so he "comes back" so to speak..... I don't know.

[artist]

I think we have to accept that he has "moved on", and hope that he can accept that too.

The vital thing is to persuade him to allow someone else (hopefully more than one someone else) access to the hardware setup. The present situation is simply unworkable.

Many thanks, Mr. Slayer, for passing all the info along, it's a very great help.

all the best.

[Alffe]

ZS, I never knew you of of you before BT2 and these threads, and you're a cool guy and I like you. I can tell you really like John, and feel protective of him, and I can tell that you don't want any of us to get hurt or have unrealistic expectations. You've actually done an incredible job of being tactful, diffusing tension, and reassuring as best you can.

But I'm mad at John. I don't know him, I used to think he was the greatest thing since buttered bread for bringing us braintalk, which helped me through getting diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy, and more recently, making a decision for spinal surgery. He brought me something wonderful.

But this is what I'm thinking. Braintalk is a community, a virtual community. John has become an expert in online communities. He LOVES Second Life. I have a friend who is very into it, and she finds it fun and challenging and enjoys the play she gets with it. John clearly loves it and has a group of friends, a life as an avatar, and a really good time being creative with it. So he's actually been able to get a job working for the people who make the product he loves so much, The ______labs. (I don't recall their name). He's been able to market himself to him as an expert in virtual communities and get hired and do something he loves.

But we're not actually a virtual community. We're not avatars with identities we've adopted. We're real people who exist beyond this board. And he's dropped this community cold for his community of avatars and their creators.

So, I'm angry at him for treating us like avatars, for using his work with us as a stepping stone to doing something more fun and more creative, and for having ego involved here which prevents him from just handing the thing over to someone who feels more passionately about it.

I mean, yeah, "anonymous" posts over and over on this thread suggesting we check the flickr sites where John posts his photos of his life. No ill intentions, she/he says. Nothing meant by it. But of course, that's a bit disingenuous. Anonymous has feelings about John blatantly showing how much fun he is having during his summer while he has not been attending to us. And I feel the same.

And it's frustrating that he really doesn't care that much in a personal way. I mean, look, here's Doc John, and he posts, he reads what's happening here himself, and he answers people's questions. He's transparent. John has made his little community of us, and keeps information to himself about the community, shows little empathy, and is treating us like we're no different from the characters in Second Life.

ZS--you've worked with him and you like him, and you're terrific here walking a fine line. But aren't you a bit mad yourself?

I mean, you know, I want to reach the guy and shake him a bit. I imagine an intervention, like one does with an alcoholic family member, where everyone in the family, all the friends, everybody who cares--corners the person and confronts him with the impact of his alcohol use on the people who care. I imagine somehow geting into his office with a bunch of us and letting him know how he's hurt us.

But I've looked at his Second Life profile, and the only way to get an appointment with John, is as an avatar, in the game, in the office he has there.

And that's a bit too much work.

You think there's any way we can have an impact on him and get him to care enough to do the right thing by us?

Also, you know, when he last asked for money, I was not cheap with him. I paypalled over to him $1000. I've never given that much to any one charity--it's huge for me. But you know, Braintalk had done so much for me and was doing so much for others, that I was happy to support it and assure its survival.

I mean what is with the guy?

LizaJane

Great post LizaJane! You captured my feelings exactly. I go waaaay back at BT...and I well remember JL being actively involved as Doc John is now.
He was always responsive...I have saved his handwritten notes to me, his emails when I had questions.

We feel the rejection...he has moved on and owed us more than being discarded like dirty socks. What he created was a home and we were all family....and now we hurt. It's a divorce we never wanted, at least that's what it feels like.

The big question is what are we going to do now...

Hugs for the room. ~sigh

[monarchbutterfly]

...and I well remember JL being actively involved as Doc John is now.
He was always responsive...I have saved his handwritten notes to me, his emails when I had questions....

Hugs for the room. ~sigh

I miss those days, you know- the crazy funny off topic threads that went on for pages....

[~scrabble]

I remember chatting with JL and other BT members in a chatroom ..... a long time ago. He was actually asking for some feedback and shortly thereafter he really did do something concrete about a suggestion I had made! Talk about being listened to and heard.

*waves @ Alffe

[jccgf]

Zombieslayer, I have to agree you are a good guy :).

I'm not mad either, but frustrated by the lack of communication and a two month down time. My monetary contribution to the forums was much more modest. I think had I made a huge contribution... it might stir stronger emotions in me. I can understand that investing big in something only to have it vanish might leave one feeling scammed, violated, duped, and mad.

I'm also not as invested in these forums for emotional support as some others might be, because my family and I are healthy at this point in time...thanks in large part to other members of BrainTalk. I missed it when it went down, but I had other outlets.

I'm still just confused by the lack of communication in regard to BT.

Cara

[dorry]

If that's true that he has moved on to other projects, then the right thing to do would be to put the community in someone elses caretaking. Someone with an active interest. Not let it crash and burn and get to it whenever.

I saw it go downhill after it left MGH. In my eyes it lost some credibility and accountability. More forums were created so it looked like a huge community, but they were seldom used. I remember clicking on a forum for information and there was nobody there, or posts were so old I didn't bother to ask a question, knowing there was nobody home.

Forum Feedback was filled with angry people asking questions and few had answers. I don't think even the mods were able to reach JL in a timely manner. That is a plus for this forum. Questions get answered, even if some don't like the question being asked.

It seemed to be a stress filled free for all (FF). People think docjohn has no rules here and want boundaries. I disagree. There is no need to jump down ppl's throats when they are vocalizing what is on their minds. If something gets out of hand, I have no doubt that DJ would step in. It's nice to be treated like adults.

In the past year, which is far back as I recall, I became bored with BT. Most of the ppl I knew had moved on.

There is always a crop of newbies with questions, but with archives lost from repeated crashes (MGH and HP), alot of the good medical info was gone forever. That for me was inexcuseable.....expecting disabled people to 'rebuild' the info, that with a little care, wouldn't have happened in the first place.

[indigogo]

John Lester made a huge, personal impact early on. He was on the board of the organization People Living With Parkinson's, and actually attended some functions in person. His reputation was totally hands on and responsive.

That's why so many of us are being so patient (no pun intended!) with him now - his reputation goes a long way; we are not willing to give up on him.

But has he given up on us?

[Thelma]

Everything above echoes my thoughts on the subject of Braintalk and John Lester.

I don't think until we hear from him we can know for sure what exactly has happened re the soft and the hardware problems.

But personally I have never in my life been so disappointed in a human being for their actions of disregard for those who depended on them.

By not having the proper help and not informing the members who have made that site a haven in their hour of need he instead let them hang there as mute immovable mannequins.

I have talked via email to him many times and he is not unaware of what that site is in relation to some of their lives. It is literally their only means of cummunication with the world of another person.

What happened to him that turned the caring and concened man he was into this uncaring entity he has appeared to be now.

I say without hesitation that the advent of one person on the forum changed everything for all. He took little by little control and used John on one side and his callousness towards others on the other.

I don't believe John knows exactly what has been going on and if the moderators are right it is a done deal. They too have to endure much but have no choice as John is not open to the truth. Indeed he is not accessible to them either save through this man.

I know some have written of his helping others and while on his own forum he did just that and would again in a minute but he has proven he has no compassion for any other disease or condition.

He only sees his personal power over others and talks and runs by banning as a child in a scholyard would and run to the teacher.

By banning or asking John to ban he tells his own version and then forbids anyone else to voice or another.

But and this is a big but

If you echo what he has done and praise it you will remain on the site forever.

Just say he is right but don't mention th word banned.

That is the forbidden word and I will not be forbidden from using it.

Because in my world there are no throwaway human beings.

I think John shares that feeling as I remember him talking about lthe death of his Father and mentioning that to that very day his parents don't really know what he is tryig to do as they don't use a computer.

So there is in there a warm compassionate man that has demonstrated it over and over again and for me the question remains

What happened John

[anonymous]

I mean, yeah, "anonymous" posts over and over on this thread suggesting we check the flickr sites where John posts his photos of his life. No ill intentions, she/he says. Nothing meant by it. But of course, that's a bit disingenuous. Anonymous has feelings about John blatantly showing how much fun he is having during his summer while he has not been attending to us. And I feel the same.
Just a few words to clarify...

I believe LizaJane’s post truly sums up most peoples’ feelings about the situation. Ultimately under the current circumstances, JL can do whatever he wants, since he is the one and only person who “holds the key” to BT1 and its hardware/software. I just felt it strange and ironic that although several people were strongly insisting that he was “away from Boston” traveling during the Summer and couldn’t fix the server even if he wanted to, that the photos on his flickr page seemed to tell another story. Yes, he had been traveling over the summer, but it also was apparent that he had been back in town several times as well. He certainly deserves to have a life and I don’t fault him at all for wanting to have a little fun during the summer. What was confusing to me was the lack of updates on the BT main page, especially since he had stated that this is how he would keep everyone updated. As I have stated before, just a few one/two-liners stating, “Sorry folks, I’m still busy and will get to it just as soon as I can.” I believe would have put most people at ease. I am also not mad, just very confused and somewhat frustrated with the whole situation. Perhaps there is still a good explanation for the situation, but I just have no idea what it might be.

Also since BT has grown so large, has become so prominent, and is now a critical link for medical information and support for over 50,000 users, I truly believe (voluntary or not) that it deserves more than part-time technical support. If JL and the current BT BOD cannot provide this, then perhaps it should go back to MGH (if they would take it) or perhaps be supported by a 3rd party server farm.

P.S.
Thanks again to ZS for providing excellent help and a “diplomatic” point of view during this situation. :)

[JoJo6]

Thelma, I feel the hurt I hear in your words. I too have been here since the dinosaur days. I too remember when John took time to interact with the members at MGH/BT.

It seems very strange now when we speak of getting letters, emails, notes and post from John Lester. I wish I could help everybody take a peak into the olden days.

I can not count the times he sent me PM's for many different reasons. Yes, I do believe he could hear back then. Somewhere along the line something happened, he made some very unwise choices, wouldn't listen to anybody concerning those choices.

I'm saddened at the bad things that happened to some good people because of the bad choices.

I am not saying John doesn't need rest, vacations, time with his family and time for his work. I simply can not say the good he has done over the years, but the halo is beginning to tarnish. I too lay the blame at the feet of this person that I can not find the right words to describe.

As Thelma said, this person treated his home forum the way he should have treated all the chats and forums.

I saw a need for a chat room for family and friends that cared for their LO's that suffered from this disease from hell, Alzheimers Disease. We had the forum, yes, but things changed so very fast at times and it was harder to get to the forums and by the time someone else saw the new post they no longer needed answers to their questions concerning meds. and such.

I had been a part of the MGH Chat for AD and I knew what it could do to help these caregivers. such a simple request, but instead another Social" type chat" would be created. This type forum and chat had been a help to so many, I don't think John had or has a clue. By this time though "someone else was in charge". IMHO of course.

I asked in everyway I knew how to ask, I BEGGED, more than once, well of course it didn't happen. Just another sad story from the un-caring "in charge" person. I had given up a long time before trying to get in touch with John, or trying to get his attention. One other point that I don't believe has been brought up hear. Daily the count (#) for new members were inflated. It was a joke!!

Yes, the "count" got up past 50,000 I think, close to it. what was the most telling was how many people were using the forum that very day, changing up and down, but didn't go much pass 100 on any given day or night

50,000 + members and only 100, maybe 200 members in the forum at any given time? what is wrong with this picture????

Those that keep talking about "a forum this big" need to go there and look if the site ever goes back up!

One last thing. the 2 or 3 "updates" including the one in this thread does not sound like something John would say. Look hard if iterested in seeing,I think this "temp. in charge" wrote all those updates!!

ZS, I'm not talking about you here. As someone else said today you are kind, caring, would deny yourself sleep to help someone else, I can not say enough to let you know what most of of us here think of you. I just hope I don't "jinx" you:)

[Curious]

<-------hands jo a mug of hazelnut coffee and a brownie

psssttt.....i just read your emails. :o i'm behind a few days.

welcome to bt2!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[anonymous_no_more]

So. let's think of a way to make the site into an enterprise that could be "acquired" by a larger organization, [B]who would care and maintain it on a daily, minute by minute basis.

Don't you all think that if this were "WebMD" that the uptime would be a number one priority?

In order to achieve this...we need corporate sponsors/and or ownership. The end. We obvioulsy need to make Braintalk.org a facility for making money. Since our members are clearly strapped, it becomes one of making this more than just a bulletin board. Perhaps, an UI that includes advertising from docs, medical organizations, a doc finder, etc.

We have been doing that [linking to resources] incidentally via our posts sharing info/docs we have found, and personal referrals. It could be a tiered structure. To access certain features of medical access/info, might require a membership that actually costs money (not a huge amount)...just like those "memberships" that allow access to medical libraries; basic membership costs nothing...

Somehow, for us to require 100% attention, there HAS to be something "more" for the person/organization running it. Donations are not going to do the trick in the long term. No doubt, those that have contributed are to be commended. But, it would be a better process to formalize the endeavor...to do away with these feelings of expectation/let down, when our donated dollars amount to nothing negligible. It also levels the playing field, as those that can't afford to donate would not feel "less" than those that can.

We can't make this JLester "want" to make us his number one priority with words of let-down and emotion (I do believe "he" must know how important BT is to everyone].

Instead of focusing on what isn't being done, or harboring hurt feelings and moral outrage that we are no longer his priority; let's make this into something that is stable, open, and a better vehicle for "broken" people to access and use however they see fit, with or without JLester.

Again, just how I see things [and no one needs to agree with me]. No need to get worked up.

[JoJo6]

my dear Monkey friend:) The HN coffee is delish! Tis OK about the emails, my dear. Now I can do it myself? :D

thanks for the welcome. People are friendly here. I also spent some time on DocJohns site a couple of times. I liked what I saw there too.

thank you to DocJohn for giving us drowning people a shelter during the storm. Curious you make sure you don't let him get away with ALL the cookies or brownies!:p
JJ

[Thelma]

Hi Jo

I have been thinking about this for a long time and if we can not get any respect [and that is really what it is] from John or his protege then we need to appeal to whoever will help.

You are perfectly right in all you say.

[Curious]

Has anybody told you lately that you are adorable??


xoxo

******blush*****

awwww

XOXO back at ya!!

[Chemar]

(((JO))):) how good to see you!

:D see monkey, the smell of your coffee is bringing in the friends:D

[JoJo6]

:D CHEMAR!!!! so happy to see you too. Its been a long dry summer,eh? ;)
We'll have to catch up when we get the world problems settled!:p

Take care and we'll talk soon, JoJo6

[lady_express_44]

In order to achieve this...we need corporate sponsors/and or ownership. [B]The end. We obvioulsy need to make Braintalk.org a facility for making money. Since our members are clearly strapped, it becomes one of making this more than just a bulletin board. Perhaps, an UI that includes advertising from docs, medical organizations, a doc finder, etc.

Frankly, this could concern me . . . unless there was some way to ensure there is no bias, especially if sponsored by a pharma company.

There are enough boards out there like that already, and that's one of the primary reasons I liked BT so much.

Cherie

[JoJo6]

it's times like these that doesn't give us pleasure to be right, ya know? Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, its respect that is lacking and I don't think we will ever see it. It makes me so very sad. I wouldn't know where to begin to have things as they were.

People say "times have changed" and yes they have, but we don't just throw away years of caring ,sharing knowledge of health issues, helping those that are weaker at the moment, NO WE DON't just throw it all away.

Rright now it feels like there's been a death in the family. not being morbid here, but we were and ARE family!!

Take care Thelma, don't over do yourself. I know about your wreck and how ill you have been, just keep working at getting better. Jo

[Curious]

(((JO))):) how good to see you!

:D see monkey, the smell of your coffee is bringing in the friends:D

hehe...and i found my disco ball to light the way! http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/disco_ball.gif

[DocJohn]

Just to make this clear, Psych Central is happy and willing to continue sponsorship ad infinitum of BT2 (or whatever it becomes). As long as some folks step up to the plate to help run the forums -- in a far more transparent and open fashion than what you're accustomed to on BT1 -- I think we'll be happy to keep these going indefinitely.

Honestly, it doesn't cost all that much to run a set of popular forums. I'm happy to donate whatever resources that are needed to help out with this community, as it's apparent there's both a need and desire.

John

[Curious]

<----hands to docjohn http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/ch-chips.jpg

[anonymous_no_more]

Frankly, this could concern me . . . unless there was some way to ensure there is no bias, especially if sponsored by a pharma company.

There are enough boards out there like that already, and that's one of the primary reasons I liked BT so much.

Cherie

Exactly! This is what is so tough about the BT issue. We have something small and without medical "bias" and yet, don't have the kind of service/support we seem to need...

If it gets bigger, we run the risk of it becoming a WebMD or healthboards kind of community, and then that hometown, "everyone supports everyone" atmosphere disappears...and mass banning begins.

Ummm...I propose, that while we can't make JLester want to do anything for us...we can, once BT is back, make it less of a headache, behave ourselves, using the "ignore" button, and simply make it work, "as is..."

Sometimes, after seeing the kind of fighting and distress some members have caused each other, I have to wonder why anyone would devote either personal time, as well as server space/power to such an endeavor.

It is a given that a patient community "needs" this, but, my goodness, why on earth would someone want to maintain it, especially if it's citizens can't behave, and be nice? It isn't always about money.

[JoJo6]

you stop that bribing DocJohn. He'll think we are trying to buy his affection!!:p

DocJohn, I have been wondering today what YOUR decission was on continuing these forums. I am thinking what you just said means you will give us a try? We can be a handful sometimes:eek:

OK, what kind of help do you mean? I've been at BT1 for a long time, but was never asked to do any chores, so you will probably need to make a list or have someone make one as to what YOU need from US.

Am I making any sense? Probably not. It's not often to come across someone as generous and gracious as you have been to us. We've carried on so it's a wonder you haven't headed for the hills already.

Your time is worth everything, but as you've heard, we are broke. Could you give us some idea what kind of help you will need? That would be a start.

We do have to have order or we are sunk before we start. You have allowed us to speak our minds, maybe it's time to get down to business?

Trust and respect, we ALL have to follow those rules. I'll hush now, but I do hope you will have someone write down what YOU need from US!

I'm almost 64 yrs old, have 4 adult kids and too many grands to count, but I'm not totally useless yet. When I come back on line I hope to see what we need to do as a group as well as seperately.

Thank you for your kindness, Julia aka Jo

[JoJo6]

BT1 hasn't always been the way it is right now. We have no leadership, we have Mods that will not let you ask them a question and on and on.

If you are happy to be in a forum that is run the way BT#1 is, then you may want to stay there.

As to why someone would even want to take on a group of people that are ill or caregivers or both, I would say they have a good heart and wants to help people.

I do not see that so strange. That was the way my parents brought me up. Like I said, some people just have goodness in their hearts.

Its all been said and done, why so many are unhappy and why we feel abandoned, its time to get on with whatever we are going to do. I will be joining the Docs support forums.

[lady_express_44]

Just to make this clear, Psych Central is happy and willing to continue sponsorship ad infinitum of BT2 (or whatever it becomes). As long as some folks step up to the plate to help run the forums -- in a far more transparent and open fashion than what you're accustomed to on BT1 -- I think we'll be happy to keep these going indefinitely.

Honestly, it doesn't cost all that much to run a set of popular forums. I'm happy to donate whatever resources that are needed to help out with this community, as it's apparent there's both a need and desire.

John

Cool, DocJohn!

I know it is a lot of work to run a good board, but if the commitment and devotion are there, it has a lot of potential to prosper.

I like that you are letting everyone speak their mind. It seems to be working out ok.

Cherie

[Curious]

quote from jojo6:
Now Curious

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

you stop that bribing DocJohn. He'll think we are trying to buy his affection!!

moi? :eek: me bribe?

<-------hands jo her morning hazelnut coffee and choccy donut

:p

[KTM5665]

:) :) Good News, Doc Jon~! thanks!!!!

[Username]

I still think this might be the same JL as DocJohn. It would be certainly one way to start fresh, get rid of the problems with Mods and get sponsorship to help with the cost involved in running and maintaining an active forum.

It's just a thought and I don't get many these days so I had to tell someone. :D :D

[lady_express_44]

I still think this might be the same JL as DocJohn. It would be certainly one way to start fresh, get rid of the problems with Mods and get sponsorship to help with the cost involved in running and maintaining an active forum.

Well, if it's true . . . I think it will work out perfectly for us too!

Cherie

[Chemar]

ummmm I havent heard DocJohn once request "sponsorship" or anything vaguely financial. In fact THIS is what he said:

Just to make this clear, Psych Central is happy and willing to continue sponsorship ad infinitum of BT2 (or whatever it becomes). As long as some folks step up to the plate to help run the forums -- in a far more transparent and open fashion than what you're accustomed to on BT1 -- I think we'll be happy to keep these going indefinitely.

Honestly, it doesn't cost all that much to run a set of popular forums. I'm happy to donate whatever resources that are needed to help out with this community, as it's apparent there's both a need and desire.

John

By "step up to the plate" I understand him to mean MODERATE not SPONSOR
:rolleyes:

sorry, but IMHO no way are JL and DocJohn the same dude ;)

[Curious]

maybe if he was an octopus. look how long phych central has been going. he'd have to have many hands to keep up with that, all the virtual stuff and bt.

and keep a hand free for choccy chip cookies!

[artist]

I still think this might be the same JL as DocJohn.
Amazing plastic surgery, then..:)
http://psychcentral.com/about/official_bio.htm

all the best

Actually, here you go, both of 'em...

[Curious]

and if you don't believe artists link....then just do a google search. very impressive stuff. :D

[Chemar]

definitely looks like a choccy lovin' guy!:D

[indigogo]

ok - this is the REAL story:

John Lester got too busy with Second Life, so he created an Avatar named DocJohn to take over BrainTalk. But that didn't work because the Avatar wasn't real, so he had himself cloned and then the clone had plastic surgery!

Oh, I so know in my heart this is true!

:p

[Mizz Piglet]

ok - this is the REAL story:
John Lester got too busy with Second Life, so he created an Avatar named DocJohn to take over BrainTalk. But that didn't work because the Avatar wasn't real, so he had himself cloned and then the clone had plastic surgery!
Oh, I so know in my heart this is true!:p


Hmmmm. Do you really think that DocJohn is really JL?? :rolleyes: minus the MODS from Braintalk1 of course. ...DocJohn seems just as nice as the JL I use to know and would like to know again.

[Thelma]

you got it by god you got it

takes a Parkie every time lol

[Username]

By "step up to the plate" I understand him to mean MODERATE not SPONSOR
:rolleyes:

sorry, but IMHO no way are JL and DocJohn the same dude ;)

Well now, that makes sense even to me! I didn't know what Psyc Central was. I thought it was an actual real place/entity that was going to SPONSOR the site.

Linda

[Username]

Amazing plastic surgery, then..:)
http://psychcentral.com/about/official_bio.htm

all the best

Actually, here you go both of 'em...

Well you know, anything IS possible! :D :D I want the name of that plastic surgeon!!!!!

[Chemar]

Well now, that makes sense even to me! I didn't know what Psyc Central was. I thought it was an actual real place/entity that was going to SPONSOR the site.

Linda

Linda
here again is what DocJohn said... which clearly indicates that he is willing for Psych Central, his organization, to SPONSOR BT2 (or whatever it will end up being called)

Just to make this clear, Psych Central is happy and willing to continue sponsorship ad infinitum of BT2 (or whatever it becomes). As long as some folks step up to the plate to help run the forums -- in a far more transparent and open fashion than what you're accustomed to on BT1 -- I think we'll be happy to keep these going indefinitely.

Honestly, it doesn't cost all that much to run a set of popular forums. I'm happy to donate whatever resources that are needed to help out with this community, as it's apparent there's both a need and desire.

John
The "step up to the plate" remark indicates to me that he would like volunteers from the membership here to assist to moderate this site, while he sponsors it

[DocJohn]

Yes, sorry not to be absolutely clear... Psych Central will devote time, money, energy and resources to running the community on behalf of its members in a reliable manner (e.g., 24/7/365), as long as a handful of members volunteer to help act as community guides/moderators/whatever-you-want-to-call-them. These folks will help me keep the community running in a safe and supportive manner (and will be transparent and responsible for all of their own actions).

Virtually no money is needed to run a community, as long as you have willing souls devoted to the task. (What little money is needed will be provided by Psych Central.)

John

[Thelma]

There you are going to get into the same problem as John Lester did. He asked for volunteers and had to accept what he got.

Three have torn the place apart.

If you are serious you will wait and read and in time pick those you want and need to help you.

Volunteers can be great in the big wide world but this WWW is where they must be carefully chosen and sight unseen or unheard is make believe world that at times is not what you would want but what you get.

[Alffe]

I vote for Curious because she always has goodies! :D

[Curious]

awww alffe how sweet. :D ::::smooches::::
guess i'm a pretty good hostess huh?

would you like milk or coffee with your brownie today? :p

[Username]

There you are going to get into the same problem as John Lester did. He asked for volunteers and had to accept what he got.

Three have torn the place apart.

If you are serious you will wait and read and in time pick those you want and need to help you.

Volunteers can be great in the big wide world but this WWW is where they must be carefully chosen and sight unseen or unheard is make believe world that at times is not what you would want but what you get.

I agree 100%! Wait a bit and see how people reaction to situations. I know the first ones to jump on board, may not be what you want.

I think a lot of on line personalities are already apparent. For the most part they're all good. But it only takes a few to to spoil everything all over again.

Linda

[lady_express_44]

I think the board policies make a lot of difference in how people act/react, but most people are pretty reasonable, in my experience.

Once the guidelines are set (no matter how liberal), then they need to be applied fairly. There also has to be open and effective top-down & bottom-up communication channels.

Like anyone in charge of a board, DocJohn can influence how things are moderated, and he can choose the people that fit that "culture" he wants to have.

No doubt, this will take some discussion with/leadership of the team, but it should work (like most management teams in business do). Strategize --> plan ---> organize ---> implement ---> tweak as required.

Cherie

[Chemar]

I must say that I would agree re handpicked (or elected) moderators rather than volunteers

that said..........I vote for Curious as long as she always has lots of choccy and coffee to distribute
no one can stay upset for long with a choccy laden monkey grinning at them:D

[Mizz Piglet]

I agree. Let DocJohn hand pick his Moderators/assistants and pray they arn't the MODS from another site...:(

No game playing, fairness to all and keeping the boards clean and abide by Doc's rules. And, home made Cookies and Brownies for all. :p :p

[stevem53]

I also agree that moderators have to be hand picked, and it would take time to get to know whom amongst us has the resposibility, the credibility, and the integrity to take on such a task..If its done by volunteers, then its hasta la vista baby for me

[unknown]

It seems to me that discussing moderators is putting the cart before the horse. Which moderators are appropriate would depend a lot on what the rules are.

For instance, if personal attacks are banned, then a person who engages in them wouldn't make a great moderator, etc.

Also some people might or might not like the rules and therefore might or might not want to be a moderator.

Are there rules?

[stevem53]

It seems to me that discussing moderators is putting the cart before the horse. Which moderators are appropriate would depend a lot on what the rules are.

For instance, if personal attacks are banned, then a person who engages in them wouldn't make a great moderator, etc.

Also some people might or might not like the rules and therefore might or might not want to be a moderator.

Are there rules?

This is true..And if personal attacks are not banned then what we've got here is a circus..I think a BT-Lite is what the majority is looking for..and not a Jerry Springer revival

[artist]

I can't see DocJohn requiring less or more than he requests from Psych Central members, which is explained here:
http://forums.psychcentral.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=info&Number=48431&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=&vc=1

If I were him I'd want the same rules to apply across all boards, and to everyone, but hey, I'm not him...

Electing mods might prove difficult - needs someone with lots of time and committment. I would certainly vote for Curious for one. I agree you can't stay mad for long in the face of either the cheeky monkey, or choccy and cookies.

I'm going to start a new thread right now for change of board name suggestions (i.e. new name for BT2) :)
all the best

[stevem53]

Dr John..Please explain this particular limitation in the Psych Central faq..I dont understand how you can discuss health issues without posting info on research endeavors

* Announcements for research projects

[Wittesea]

Dr John..Please explain this particular limitation in the Psych Central faq..I dont understand how you can discuss health issues without posting info on research endeavors

* Announcements for research projects

When I read that portion of the psychcentral FAQ's it appeared to me that in would be inappropriate for people posting to say something like "I am doing a research project on xyz ann I need information from people with xyz disease, so if you have xyz disease please contact me at blahblahblah email address"

That's what it looks like to me... a ban on people doing research on the forums, not a ban on people discussing published research from others.

[stevem53]

When I read that portion of the psychcentral FAQ's it appeared to me that in would be inappropriate for people posting to say something like "I am doing a research project on xyz ann I need information from people with xyz disease, so if you have xyz disease please contact me at blahblahblah email address"

That's what it looks like to me... a ban on people doing research on the forums, not a ban on people discussing published research from others.

Yes that would make sense......."soliciting research"

[Thelma]

Well I guess if you want rules and regulations you have them on that forum in tons.

I think it is just an elaborated depression site and ruled with an iron fist.

How in the world could such a forum as Braintalk be incorporated into such a strict system. How could 'doc' manage that. He is a psychologist and works in an unrelated field?

Lots of forums but all filled wlith small talk and mundane topics.

I think I had better be nicer or he will throw me out for sure. Maybe not now as as he builds this site but give me a day or two after John gets BT back up and running and I will be BAnned from here so fast.

I can't imagine for the life ofl me how someone who has such a site could possibly even think of having another like BT.

It is not the man who runs that site for sure.

[Wittesea]

I find it interesting that many are assuming that the fact that DocJohn is looking for volunteers to be moderators means that he will decide that every person who volunteers will be picked.

Many people have said something along the lines of "the mods need to be hand-picked, not volunteers".

When I read Johns request for volunteers I assumed that he was asking people to step forward, and then he will pick some moderators from the group people who stepped forward.

It doesn't make any sense for John to approach people to ask them if they want to moderate for the simple fact that the person may not be interested, may not have the time to devote, may not want to spend the time/energy learning the moderation/administration tools of the software, etc...

So by asking people to volunteer, DocJohn will then have a number of people who have the time, energy, ability, willingness, etc... to devote to moderating, and he can then make choices on which volunteers he thinks would be good at moderating.

It would certainly take less time to read the posts of the people who volunteer to see who would be appropriate than it would take to go through and read every post from every person and then ask people to be mods.

Also, by asking for volunteers DocJohn can also go through google to look at the google cached pages of the original BT to read the posts there that were written by the people who volunteer (if of course their name here is the same as their name there) so that he can get a better sense of who the person is and how well they would moderate.

By asking for people to step forward it seems as if it would take less time to make good choices for moderators because instead of having to pick from 400+ members, he would have to pick from only the ones who volunteer.

Also by asking people to step forward he could (if he chooses) send an email or PM to those particular members that lays out a scenerio that would need moderation and ask the volunteers "if you were a mod what would you do in this situation?". Again, it's much less time consuming to do something like that only with interested people rather than with every member.

Anyway, that's just my opinion about why a forum admin would ask for volunteers rather than searching the forum looking for people. DocJohn will still get to "hand-pick" the moderators out of the pool of people who step forward to volunteer.

Liz

[Jane]

Poor Doc!!!! He won't win regardless of what he does. I don't know how in heaven's name he will be able to sort out the individual ability, availibility and lack of agenda. I wish him the very best of luck in this endeavor.

[KTM5665]

too much time spent on life's trivial issues...that's MY take on the situation.,:D

[Thelma]

I think his problem will be is that he never built from the start and I can't see how he thinks he can just kind of inherit this as an addition on the web to the old site that John worked on for years.

The rules from his site are so differnt from John's and much stricter.

[lady_express_44]

Many people have said something along the lines of "the mods need to be hand-picked, not volunteers."

The way I was envisioning his proposal was that volunteers (who are interested) would step forward (like job applicants), and the appropriate people would be screened/chosen by DocJohn.

It doesn't seem to complicated of a process to me, but then my background is Human Resources Mgmt. :)

I don't think that the intent is for this board to be a carbon copy of his other board. It seems to have a different flavor about it already (not that I've spent any time there, so I don't know anything about it except what's been said here). :confused:

Cherie

[artist]

I think his problem will be is that he never built from the start and I can't see how he thinks he can just kind of inherit this as an addition on the web to the old site that John worked on for years.

The rules from his site are so differnt from John's and much stricter.
Oh Thelma, I wish I could do something to make you feel less grim about the whole thing.

DocJohn doesn't have a problem. He could close this down right now if he felt like it.

JL and Braintalk won't have a problem, still got bazillions of members.

PsychCentral won't have a problem, they're self-contained.

If you've got a problem, don't stay here. If you haven't, get happy. What do you want, same-old, same-old? Don't think that there won't be changes afoot back at the old BT ranch after such a catastrophic downtime.

Unless you're just hanging around till JL gets back, why don't you channel your energies into building this place? It's up to us, not DocJohn - he's given us the platform, we could be the architects of something really special, by helping each other help each other.

This is a forum already, up and running. Some may go when BT restarts, others will come, both from BT and the rest of the world. Many will stay. We'll build it, it'll grow with us just as BT did, nature of the beast. It's settling down but still needs lots of sorting out - getting it to function well should be fun. No biggie, we just deal with things as they come up.

So lets be constructive, and let's have fun doing it. Fun! What's to lose?

Come on, give us a smile, just a small one....please?

all the best :)

[Curious]

the conversations and tossing back and forth of all the ideas are good.

docjohn is logged on a bunch here. i'm sure he is reading..and stealing choccy chips, since he has none in desk...:p and getting a good feel about the members here. i'm sure whatever tos and how his mods are chosen will be fair. ( if you haven't already...take a look at the phych central forum and read some of the mods posts. the link it at the bottom of every page )

this forum was set up to give a place for us all to reconnect. we are doing that. we have been offered a wonderful gift for it to stay after bt is back up. i see it not as another bt trying to be the same or a copy cat, but standing on it's own merits on what the members want.

i agree with artist...we are the architects. cooks in the kitchen.....tossing in what flavors they love the best. some want nuts...some plain...some coffee...some milk...:p it's all good. as long as there ain't no spelling police!

[dorry]

Thanks for the voice of reason Artist! Couldn't agree more.

[artist]

Thank you kindly, ma'am ;)

all the best.

[ConsiderThis]

As someone who was banned at BT along with another member who was so very saddened by her banning, because of her great love for BT and JL, I am hesitant to become involved again, as I was there.

From my perspective, the banning was arbitrary and out of left field, and this crash makes me think that BT wasn't really what anyone thought it was, just as it wasn't what I thought it was.

By that I mean that the people there were wonderful, I just so missed Moose. Remember Moose? Anyone know where she is? She posted some things that have stuck with me and have made a big difference in my thinking and in my life.

There were lots of people like her there.

But the head honchos, I think they used their power in a deleterious way, that hurt people.

So if it's true that what goes around comes around, then the crash is understandable.

:)

You know what I really like about CareCure Forums? A lot of people use their own real pictures as their avatars... it's very genuine feeling. And the smiling faces make me smile.

[lady_express_44]

Great post Artist!

Cherie

[Jaye]

I've been laying low, mostly because of a non-neurological health problem, but reading chunks of BT2 reinforces my idea that most people are well-intentioned and willing to try to give a little to make a community work.

I also agree with all observations about John Lester's distancing himself in recent years, and have been as astonished as anyone at the silence emanating from the home place. With all due respect to JL for founding the forums at MGH, for setting things up, and for maintaining the hardware when it was still small through his own expense and effort, among other things, etc. etc., if he is being given credit for all the building up that went on, I have to disagree.

There are a number of people here who were the builders, the faithful, the regulars, the peacemakers, who kept on trying to be supportive even when insulted and displaced by louder voices. I'm not talking about people who wanted to rush in and be "forum police," but those who gently and persistently worked to make a quieter and gentler experience out of the brawling and friction that often surfaced when I was first a member (1999). A remark such as, "For the sake of the community, please PM me so we can discuss our differences off-forum" could do a lot more than calming one combatant. After a while most people joined together on the general concept, even if they were afraid to say much under harsher and harsher rules.

And we got better that way! For many of us, Parkinson's symptoms were sometimes eased by following the judiciously chosen advice of fellow patients. I supppose JL and others anticipated that development, but it's the soldiers in the trenches that fight the war. I think we could do it again, and of course today and with these people and all our experience, it would be unique.

Now I'd better go back and read the fine print to see if I think I'm right.

:D Jaye

[Mizz Piglet]

Amen to that!~!

[Alffe]

At the risk of repeating myself, I'd rather take a beating than be a moderator
on any forum. It's a thankless, no win job. :rolleyes:

[ConsiderThis]

Now I'd better go back and read the fine print to see if I think I'm right.

:D Jaye
Chuckle ... I know the feeling.

[ConsiderThis]

Our dear Moose is here. :) PM her, I'm sure she'll be happy to see you here too!

I feel so positive to see so many people contributing honestly and from the heart in forum feedback. It is so heartwarming to come in and see that there are actually people here, a whole group - it feels like a community again.

I think slowly, we'll let down our guards and feel more and more comfortable. I also think with the way DocJohn talks about moderators and transparency that ACTIONS as a moderator will be more determinative than anything pre-screening could accomplish.

DocJohn seems to be very hands-on and I think oversight of moderators to ensure balance and fairness will help members feel more comfortable. Of course in any dispute, each "side" is certain they are in the right and the other person started it. So as is often the case, there might be some people not happy with an administrative decision. But with transparency, and with DocJohn caring enough to watch over his brood, and with certain requirements for extreme moderator action such as consensus or DocJohn approval, or warnings, or whatever might be determined, I think most will feel that the site is just and fair and that they still have a voice and are not silenced unduly or unnecessarily.

And I think this site will continue to grow and grow. There IS room for BT and this site and people can choose whatever fits their needs. But I think being allowed to give input does help us to feel a part of a community. I feel very excited about DocJohn's new venture with all of us - even in this brief hectic and vocal period, he's hung on and offered us a permanent place. I so appreciate that!
Happiness!!!!!!

I've PMed Moose. :)

thank you!!!!!!

Yes, I can understand how moderation in all things is a good idea.

The key, I think, is to moderation to the moderation itself.

I can understand how there is a great desire to have an "in" group, and to be part of the power... but in a community where many people are isolated except for the forums they can join and participate in, I think there needs to be more wisdom and a concern for the greater good. Tolerance rather than exclusion.

I have been on a few boards where banned members and posts could use a "ghost board" - I think there is a lot to be said for that. I think deleting offensive posts, or using the brilliant function where offensive words are changed to a series of asterisks... I think that's more judicious.

But, overall, I think that when the moderation becomes overbearing, when it is The topic, then something is wrong.

I think we all get cranky at times, I know that being housebound reduces the number of outlets for frustration... so instead of going shoping or for a walk, when things are crushing in a bit, it can be a great temptation to pick on someone... just channel all the frustration into the perceived WMD possessed by this awful other person.

Only... upon closer inspection, it may turn out that there weren't really WMD, and the harm of destroying those who might have them... is unjustified.

[ConsiderThis]

At the risk of repeating myself, I'd rather take a beating than be a moderator
on any forum. It's a thankless, no win job. :rolleyes:
Hmmm, I don't know... I just posted a thank you to the moderator on the NOW pbs forum.

I had wigged out about the privy pit and the real estate broker who had my condo built over part of it... which caused so many of my health problems. He's Jewish and I said it was a Dirty thing to do. But I did it with politically incorrect use of all caps and things. So when the post was deleted, perhaps because I used the man's name and the name of his prestigious real estate agency here in Santa Fe, my post was deleted and the whole thread with it.

Next day, I had to thank her. Even though the things I said were true, I said them with an uncomfortable anger... and maybe if I just keep at it and conserve my energy, I will be able to sue him. And win!

So, I think good moderation gets good responses. :)

[Chemar]

I can understand how there is a great desire to have an "in" group, and to be part of the power... but in a community where many people are isolated except for the forums they can join and participate in, I think there needs to be more wisdom and a concern for the greater good. Tolerance rather than exclusion.

I think deleting offensive posts, or using the brilliant function where offensive words are changed to a series of asterisks... I think that's more judicious.

But, overall, I think that when the moderation becomes overbearing, when it is The topic, then something is wrong.



I sure can agree with that!

Alffe..... moderating doesnt have to be thankless and no win:)

I moderate two forums, one related to my antiques business, and the other an alternative treatment forum for neuro issues, and in both, the only actual "work" I have to do is delete occasional spam posts.

When folks disagree, I PM them to help resolve the dispute and if that doesnt work, the thread gets locked or deleted. Thankfully those times are very very rare, and overall it is the members themselves who keep the forums interesting, supportive, active and running smoothly! I have never and hopefully will never ban a member. I personally dont agree with that method of moderating, especially the way it was being used on BT1 !

I honestly feel the same could happen here because overall the people who are participating here clearly have a desire for a community of sharing and caring people. It has been a breath of fresh air after the heavy atmosphere that was hanging over BT1

Artist, I just wanted to also say how I agree with your thoughtful and articulate post. Well said!

[dorry]

considerthis, didn't you post on the computer forum from time to time? I somehow remember the name, but don't know for sure. I can't believe you were banned.

[ConsiderThis]

considerthis, didn't you post on the computer forum from time to time? I somehow remember the name, but don't know for sure. I can't believe you were banned.

Hi Dorry,

((((((((Dorry)))))))))

Yes, the computer forum. You helped me with... I forget. But I do remember being helped. I have a new computer now, so it works better.

How are you?

I also think of you when ever I play ... darn it ... I forget the name...
SpiderSolitaire... with all the additional decks!

yup. banned. It upset me because I was afraid people would see it and then think it was because my site was no good.

But I have way more people coming to my site now, so I guess it didn't hurt. It just felt worrying.

I am soooo happy to see you again! ((((((((((Dorry))))))))))))

[JoJo6]

I sure can agree with that!

Alffe..... moderating doesnt have to be thankless and no win:)

I moderate two forums, one related to my antiques business, and the other an alternative treatment forum for neuro issues, and in both, the only actual "work" I have to do is delete occasional spam posts.

When folks disagree, I PM them to help resolve the dispute and if that doesnt work, the thread gets locked or deleted. Thankfully those times are very very rare, and overall it is the members themselves who keep the forums interesting, supportive, active and running smoothly! I have never and hopefully will never ban a member. I personally dont agree with that method of moderating, especially the way it was being used on BT1 !

I honestly feel the same could happen here because overall the people who are participating here clearly have a desire for a community of sharing and caring people. It has been a breath of fresh air after the heavy atmosphere that was hanging over BT1

Artist, I just wanted to also say how I agree with your thoughtful and articulate post. Well said!

I hope you are well today. Want to tell you something. Recently I was doing some "housecleaning "on the computer. I found a folder that was titled "Chemar and Jo at the Pearly Gates!" I took it to mean Heaven. :)

I didn't have time to check it out but I will get back to it. I am curious as to what it was?? I can not help but laugh just thinking about it:D

We've come a long way together, Cheri. I cherish our friendship. Good to see you here and hope all goes well. I have a list of things to check out on your sites. Take care, Jo

[dorry]

good to see you too considerthis! guess my memory isn't too far gone ;)

that banning crap was ridiculous wasn't it? Really teaches tolerance doesn't it? jeesh!

[The Crystal Cave]

From August 23:

Howdy folks :)

Mr. Lester is now back home in Boston after traveling for his job with Linden Labs. He will be getting to work on restoring BrainTalk and will have an updated message at BrainTalk soon.

That is all I know. I will come back and update this thread when I know more.

Hi ZombieSlayer,

You have been far more forgiving and far more generous in your take on all this than I. I respect you so much for that. After two weeks without so much as a, "Hey! Haven't forgotten about you!" I began to realize we had slipped off the screen, maybe even been abandoned. You hung in there, ever optimistic.

Today, eight weeks after the crash, no update is an update.

I feel so let down by a person I had respected and trusted and who had groomed us to believe we could depend on him. In fact, groomed us to believe he was the only one we could depend on, and boy, was he right, but not in a healthy sense, and surely not in a responsible way from an IT standpoint. He was and still is the only person who could keep the site up and operating.

As incredible as it may seem, until now, MGH / BT had been the only bulletin board/forum site I had ever posted to. About 10 years ago, I found MGH during a desperate search for help. It took a week for someone to reply to my very first post, and I have been trying to pay off an incalculable debt ever since. How do you pay off an IOU for your life? I don’t know either, but until a few months before we became BrainTalk, I was trying to at least make a difference by being a source and a resource. That’s when the building started coming down around us. So even before the system crashed I had lost my place for reaching out.

I don’t do change well at all. I’m resigned to knowing that when something in life has to change, I have to work harder than the average bear to get through it. Even seemingly small changes can toss me. But sometimes, a person will come along who helps make a transition less awful for me. Dr. Grohol, you did that for me – the format and the appearance here is the same, an exceptionally sensitive thing to do, the name provided a sense of familiarity, it feels safe here, a lot of the sadness at having been so disappointed is gone, and I know you’re not going to bail out on us. Thank you for the gifts.

If BT1 ever comes back online, I hope so much that the people who are feeling an emptiness over its loss can feel good about being able to go back their home. For me, this is now my home.

ZS, thanks for hanging in there. You’re a good role model.

TCC

[JoJo6]

as Dorry said, I thought I remembered you, then it all come crashing down, all over again. I will say I was more than shocked when you were banned as well as sad. I'm glad you are here and hope you feel welcome!:)

Dorry, I am glad you have spoken up and give others the encouragement to do so. You helped me also with the computer business.:D

I am still spending some time at PsychCentral and I am very impressed. You are NOT new to this Doc J , didn't I read someplace where you said you started PsychC. in 1994 or '05? I don't find it hard to believe that you would take a group like us. Lord only knows some of us need straightened out!:p

As someone else said, I do so appreciate what you already have done.

There were some very ill people that were having surgery, test and such about the time BT went down. I know that was not to be helped, but long enough already, especially without a word. I worry for those that needed extra attention back in July.

I have tried to stop thinking on the bad times at BT1, but recently we had a rash of bannings that wiped out whole forums! I will never forget what happened to SOS!. When I saw what happened there I knew BT would never be the same and many people left along with the banned members.

I will say this and try not to say any more about BT1. Some that have posted here seemed to think they were ok if they deleted their post. Well, a member would delete and the Mod. would put it back up, go thru the banning thing anyway, writing their little nasty notes to the poster.

It didn't always happen this way, but it happened! I know it happened because I SAW it happen more than once.

So, on to bigger and better things:) It looks like many are working in different area's to get things started. I'm glad most are reading over on your other boards. Interesting to say the least.

I hope for a place where all feel safe, can find support when it's needed,give support when we see a need, just all work together. Is that too much to ask of the members? I don't think so and I hope all the rest of you don't either.

Lets get on the ball and get going, ok? JJ

[Alffe]

(((Jo))) Great post. It's difficult for me to criticize BT because of the handful of people there that literally picked me up from the floor over our son's suicide. I asked JL to create the SOS forum and made friendships that will last a lifetime as a result of it.

I was surprised when I was banned but I honestly deserved it..when pushed I pushed back and this old lady knows better.

I feel very comfortable here and I appreciate Doc John.

[Doody]

This is true..And if personal attacks are not banned then what we've got here is a circus..I think a BT-Lite is what the majority is looking for..and not a Jerry Springer revival

Jerry Springer revival!!!! LOLOLOL! ROF!!!!

I couldn't have described BT1 better!

Sits here chuckling at Steve. :D

[Doody]

From Artist? I've already forgotten as I've just caught up on this thread...

Oh Thelma, I wish I could do something to make you feel less grim about the whole thing.

Well, in defense of Thelma's grimness in one respect...

I feel trepidation myself. But in regards to the 'Jerry Springer' nature of BT1 in the last year or so. It's hard to forget the iron fist of a couple of people there, moderators specifically. People getting banned for standing up to an obvious troll/agitator. People like Alffe who only spoke indirectly, out of the corners of their mouth, and got banned. But not the agitator who was clear in his/her intentions in a post.

Anyway, for some people hurts run deep. Hope is there, but can't quite spring eternal. Some of us are just a little more 'grim', or pessimistic as my best friend calls it...realistic is what I call it.

And yes, moderating can't be all that easy. But moderating at BT apparently was to just behead the person and give no explanation. Treated the symptoms, not the disease. :mad: It was like watching King Henry VIII in action.

I'll go take a hot epsom salt soak and a vicodin for the pain and come back and post and then I may not sound as grim. :o

[dorry]

jojo6 did we chat in ZS chatroom about a week ago? I'm testing my brain :)

[Chemar]

We've come a long way together, Cheri. I cherish our friendship. Take care, Jo

You know Jo.......I think the progression of our friendship is a classic example of how things can work out for good on a forum!

We misunderstood each other and even disagreed in the beginning, but then we took the time and made the effort to really LISTEN to what the other was saying, and to try to understand and to get to know one another and voila ..... we became such good friends

I cherish you too Jo :)

[ZombieSlayer]

Hi The Crystal Cave :)

Well in all fairness I do get mroe information about BrainTalk than most members. I've been working with Mr. Lester via pm (back when he answered) with suggestions, ideas, and whatever else I could assist with since I've been a member.

Once Mr. Lester stopped replying I started talking with David H. about all the above. I don't have an opinion on David's moderating either way as I deal with him as the (oh crap I forgot his title) ... oh well :D So I've been getting my info through him and passing along what needs to be passed along. The stuff that I don't pass along is typically regarding coding for the forums and forum errors that the members don't see.

I am active in over two dozen forums and in most of those I'm either an admin or moderator or technical advisor.

That's where I get all my knowledge and what I base most of my posts on when it comes to BrainTalk and it's technical issues.

It's also why I post the updates and refute the posts that I do. I know that the huge majority of members don't have any experience behind the scenes.

That's why it seems like I've been more patient that some. I've had a little more info than they.

As for the role model....that depends on which forum/chat room I'm in :D