Sexul fantasies

[sept08]

I need to know if anyone has had sexual fantasies increase since getting PD. In my case I don't know if it's PD or the drugs that I'm taking. My sex life is down to zero but my fantasies have greatly increased to a point where it's gotten me in trouble. I've done something that I really regret, but when I did it, it was like I was having an out of body expirience and couldn't control what I was doing. I've never ever been this way before and i't really bothering me that I could do such a thing. I see my eufologist in a few days and will ask him what is happening to me.

I've had PD for about 8 years now and my body is stating to move all over the place. I'm cheweing the inside of my gums and my jaw is sore from clamping down on my teeth.

I can handle all the rest of the stuff, but those fantasies are driving crazy.

I'd like to hear if anyone has had this problem and hear if there was a solution for it.

I need help guys and galls, I've offended a person that I love very much and I don't know if she'll ever forgive me.

I'm really ashamed of what I did and need support in the worst way.

Thanks for listening.

Claude

[reverett123]

You don't say what you are taking, but if it includes one of the agonists you can bet it is involved. Also, mucuna (especially if combined with an agonist) can drive one up the wall. I, literally, found myself near losing control a time or two. If I had been able to walk, not a mammal within a hundred miles would have been safe. :o

Seriously, though, the dopamine pathways are woven through everything that brings pleasure. It is bad enough from the PD, but agonists multiply it by ten.

I don't have a reference handy, but if you google it and find a site confirming this, print it out and ask for understanding if nothing else.

[Jo*mar]

more info -

[Parkinson's drugs increase risk of impulse disorders

Updated Wed. Jun. 25 2008 2:34 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A common class of drugs prescribed to control Parkinson's disease symptoms increases the risk of gambling, excess shopping and compulsive sexual behaviour, a new study finds.

Canadian and American researchers found that study subjects who were taking dopamine agonist drugs, which help control movement problems, were two to three times more likely to have at least one of four common impulse control disorders. ]
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080625/parkinsons_study_080625?s_name=&no_ads=


http://biopsychiatry.com/misc/sex-gambling.html

http://globalrph.healthology.com/parkinsons-disease/article1105.htm

[stevem53]

Mirapex has side effects that include compulsive behaviors, ie..Gambling, sexual, and shopping, etc

[cliffb57@gmail.com]

Hi Claude, You are not alone with your fantasies, they drive me crazy. It must be the center of the brain affected by PK or the drugs I am on also. I also have a compulsion
for video poker and slots that I try my best to keep under control. I have gone down
from 3mg requip to 2mg which seemed to have helped! What a curse!

[cliffb57@gmail.com]

:(Hi Claude, You are not alone with your fantasies, they drive me crazy. It must be the center of the brain affected by PK or the drugs I am on also. I also have a compulsion
for video poker and slots that I try my best to keep under control. I have gone down
from 3mg requip to 2mg which seemed to have helped! What a curse!
I have not gone astray as I'm married but the internet can lead to it's
own disaster.

[CTenaLouise]

http://www.addictioninfo.org/articles/2854/1/Strange-Side-Effects-Surprise-Patients/Page1.html

Mirapex and Requip are two of the drugs prescribed for Parkinson's disease and Restless Legs Syndrome, or RLS. They both belong to a class of drugs known as dopamine agonists, which mimic the brain chemical known as dopamine.

Dopamine works in the brain's movement and coordination centers, and it is also involved in the brain's pleasure response by reinforcing behaviors that provide enjoyment -- including drinking, drugs, sex and gambling.

So while drugs such as Mirapex can help alleviate the motor problems associated with Parkinson's, they may also encourage such impulsive behaviors, some doctors say.

"It is believed that these medications overactivate the pleasure centers of the brain in an unregulated fashion," says Dr. Melissa Nirenberg, assistant professor of neurology at Weill Cornell Medical Center in New York.

"What has been almost as dramatic as the behaviors itself has been the fact that when you discontinue these medications, these behaviors stop."

I am very sorry the drugpharmas donot tell the truth about their drugs...

[rosebud]

Let me share a few of my personal thoughts. You are right to ask for help. Likely it is either mucuna or mirapex, get off the drugs, do it slowly, and work like hell to stay away from the black hole that will destroy your life. Believe me, no-one here takes your post lightly.

All addictions start our like candy. Delicious, beautiful, attractive and available everywhere (even for disables parkies.) Your wife, or whoever you hurt is probably scared, wonders where this is coming from, and feels betrayed. BUT you will be hard pressed to find any man or woman who will tell you what a great life they are having enjoying their addiction. 100% of the time it is a destructive force.

You are strong enough to overcome this, but don't underestimate it's power to destroy you for a minute. The easy awnser is :just don't go there. The words "easy" and "simple" are very close in our everyday use of the english language, but they are miles apart in application.

Make a serious committment to yourself to change what is going on in your head. Pray like heck for the hand of whatever you believe runs this universe to be there for you, and do whatever you need to do to make amends to anyone you've hurt with your behaviour. Then get on with your life. If you havn't stared a "spiritual journey" yet...this would be a good time to start one.

You always have the choice....no matter how grim the options seem. Exercise your freedom to choose. Good luck. rosebud

[sept08]

Thank you all for replying and understanding. I'm off to bed but tomorrow I'll give you the details on the drugs I'm taking.

Just to let you know, it was a week were I hadn't slept very well and my body was jumping all over the place, this was the first time this movement was that bad.

The person I offended was my niece, a niece that I love like a daughter. She won't talk to me anymore and it's breaking my heart. I really hurt her a lot, telling her I wanted to be her lover and stuff like that. I'm feel so ashamed, even though I know it wasn't me saying that stuff.......

[reverett123]

and not knowing the age involved, but you might consider emailing her a link to this thread

[Jo*mar]

I'd speak with your dr about a meds adjustment or change.

And also print out a few of the medical articles and give or send them to your niece, saying you are very sorry and will work with the dr to find a medication so that something like this never happens again.

Depending on the age of the niece I'd be very careful from a legal standpoint also. {adult vs minor}

[davos]

I need to know if anyone has had sexual fantasies increase since getting PD. In my case I don't know if it's PD or the drugs that I'm taking. My sex life is down to zero but my fantasies have greatly increased to a point where it's gotten me in trouble. I've done something that I really regret, but when I did it, it was like I was having an out of body expirience and couldn't control what I was doing. I've never ever been this way before and i't really bothering me that I could do such a thing. I see my eufologist in a few days and will ask him what is happening to me.

I've had PD for about 8 years now and my body is stating to move all over the place. I'm cheweing the inside of my gums and my jaw is sore from clamping down on my teeth.

I can handle all the rest of the stuff, but those fantasies are driving crazy.

I'd like to hear if anyone has had this problem and hear if there was a solution for it.

I need help guys and galls, I've offended a person that I love very much and I don't know if she'll ever forgive me.

I'm really ashamed of what I did and need support in the worst way.

Thanks for listening.

Claude

------------------------------------------------------------------------
mucuna improves sexual performance...zoloft kills libido for some.........
dr mercola reports soy causes excessive arousal; one patient said it took l5 orgasms to get relief.

davos
dx 2000
age 72
pd stage 2.5

[sept08]

Morning all,

First to tell you, my niece is an adult and last night I took your advice and emailed her this link, hopefully it will help her understand what happened and can eventually forgive me.

The drugs I'm on are PMS-PRAMIPEXOLE 0.25MG X 2
APO-SELEGILINE 5MG X2
APO-LEVOCARB CR 200/50MG X4

I see my Uero this Friday, I'll let you know what takes place.

thanks again for your support

Claude

[rosebud]

Pramipexol is a generic Mirapex. That is likely the culprit. But don't assume anything. Your on a very low dose, so it could be getting a boost from either of the other two drugs your on as well. I take 3 mg of pramipexol a day and apart from a burning urge to buy a lot of shoes....I like to think I'm doing fine. I have a limit on the number of pairs of shoes I allow myself to buy each month, and I have a dollar limit too. My neuro thinks it's harmless enough not to be a concern. Of course he doesn't live with me and my shoes all over the house.

You are very brave to share your story with all of us. It's certainly not the type of thing that people are open about. You never know whose life you are touching, but my money says there are a few others who have read this thread and can relate to it, and they are more than relieved to know that behavior that may be causing great shame or guilt is not a reflection of who they really are, but due to brain chemistry gone wrong.

No judgement here. "There but for the grace of God go I." should be the mantra of any one of us. Thank you for sharing a very personal experience.
Don't forget to forgive yourself after the forgiveness of others is sought.

Wishing you love, peace and strength for the journey.

[sept08]

Pramipexol is a generic Mirapex. That is likely the culprit. But don't assume anything. Your on a very low dose, so it could be getting a boost from either of the other two drugs your on as well. I take 3 mg of pramipexol a day and apart from a burning urge to buy a lot of shoes....I like to think I'm doing fine. I have a limit on the number of pairs of shoes I allow myself to buy each month, and I have a dollar limit too. My neuro thinks it's harmless enough not to be a concern. Of course he doesn't live with me and my shoes all over the house.

You are very brave to share your story with all of us. It's certainly not the type of thing that people are open about. You never know whose life you are touching, but my money says there are a few others who have read this thread and can relate to it, and they are more than relieved to know that behavior that may be causing great shame or guilt is not a reflection of who they really are, but due to brain chemistry gone wrong.

No judgement here. "There but for the grace of God go I." should be the mantra of any one of us. Thank you for sharing a very personal experience.
Don't forget to forgive yourself after the forgiveness of others is sought.

Wishing you love, peace and strength for the journey.

Rosebud,

Thank you for the well wishes, it's nice to know that we have people that understand what I'm going trough.

I don't think of me as being brave, I think of me as reaching out to anybody that would understand that it wasn't really me writing that email, it was some drugged out old man. I could never ever knowingly hurt her like that.

This place is a life saver, you people are the only people that I've told this to because I knew someone would understand.

I sent a link of this place to my niece and she opened it, but she to this day hasn't communicated with me, not one word and it's killing me.

Don't forget to forgive yourself after the forgiveness of others is sought.

How do you forgive yourself if the other party doesn't forgive you?

I thought she knew me enough to understand that I was not in my right mind when I did what I did, I guess I was wrong.

I can only hope that someday she will realize that when you're on drugs, you fight everyday to stay sane and fight to keep control. I know you good people understand what I'm talking about.

Rosebud, you have your shoe addiction and I can understand the struggle you undertake every day not to buy other shoes. You said your doctor thought it was funny, maybe to him, but to you and all of us that have this affliction, the struggle to not act on our impulses is a tremendous challenge. Everyday, it's the same thing only some days it worst.

Again many thanks to Rosebud and all the other wonderful people that have wrote me to show support, I don't know what I'd do without you good folks.

I just hope that someday I'm able to help someone else that needs understanding of what can happen when you take drugs, prescribed or other wise.

thank you, my friends and may you all keep well.

Claude

[rosebud]

Rosebud,

I sent a link of this place to my niece and she opened it, but she to this day hasn't communicated with me, not one word and it's killing me.

Don't forget to forgive yourself after the forgiveness of others is sought.

How do you forgive yourself if the other party doesn't forgive you?

I thought she knew me enough to understand that I was not in my right mind when I did what I did, I guess I was wrong.

I can only hope that someday she will realize that when you're on drugs, you fight everyday to stay sane and fight to keep control. I know you good people understand what I'm talking about.

Again many thanks to Rosebud and all the other wonderful people that have wrote me to show support, I don't know what I'd do without you good folks.

I just hope that someday I'm able to help someone else that needs understanding of what can happen when you take drugs, prescribed or other wise.

thank you, my friends and may you all keep well.

Claude

Claude: I don't know your niece, but I can relate to her experience. The end of my marriage came when my husband (who is alcoholic) substituted his alcohol for cough syrup, and in one of his drug induced states tried to rape me. My meds were off and I went into a state of overdrive that scared the hell out of me and him. He backed off and grabbed his jacket and left. I was traumatized and cannot remember what happened for about 12 hours after that. I did know I had to get out of there. The next day I left, and did not return. He went into a rage that almost landed him in jail. He threatened to burn the house down. When he came down off the drugs he insisted he had not hurt me and that I was overreacting. This only added a darker shade of grey to his previous actions. Eventually he admitted his wrong and was remorseful. I did forgive him, but I understood that he did not fully understand me because he had violated a trust that is not a part of the act of forgiveness. It is essentially the same problem married couples face when one of them cheats. The act can be forgiven, and even love can be restored, but the trust must be earned back. The breach only heals with time. That is the price to be paid, and that is outside of our range as mortals. (at least speaking from my experience.) I knew he was genuinly sorry, and he did all he could to express that. I accepted his soulful expression of sorrow for what he had done, but I could not restore the trust. Only God and time could do that. Sometimes a lifetime is not long enough.
I know that sounds unfair in a situation where you were taking a drug that a Dr. prescribed for a disease that is no fault of your own. Do what you canto make amends. If she choses not to forgive you, that is her choice and SHE has to work that through for herself. Do not confuse lack of forgiveness with broken trust. Lay your true sorrow at her feet, then wait. If you truly love her and have made your best effort then you have done your part. If she never forgives you then she is chosing to carry around garbage and you have no control over that. Do not let her lack of forgiveness after a reasonable amount of time weigh you down. I cannot say what a reasonable amt of time is. I can tell you that broken trust may never be repaired in this lifetime. There is a reason for every experience in life. One day you will benefit from this if you do all you can on your part to deserve forgiveness. Welcome to the doorway of a spiritual journey that will last the rest of your life should you chose to travel it well. And yes you probably will be extending a hand to someone who needs it one day. Maybe someone who will be in a very similar situation....after all there are no new mistakes...someone has made all of them before and many will make them again in the future. Thats it for me tonight....gotta put my soapbox away...
love ya....stay strong and get your meds fixed!!!

[sept08]

Claude: I don't know your niece, but I can relate to her experience. The end of my marriage came when my husband (who is alcoholic) substituted his alcohol for cough syrup, and in one of his drug induced states tried to rape me. My meds were off and I went into a state of overdrive that scared the hell out of me and him. He backed off and grabbed his jacket and left. I was traumatized and cannot remember what happened for about 12 hours after that. I did know I had to get out of there. The next day I left, and did not return. He went into a rage that almost landed him in jail. He threatened to burn the house down. When he came down off the drugs he insisted he had not hurt me and that I was overreacting. This only added a darker shade of grey to his previous actions. Eventually he admitted his wrong and was remorseful. I did forgive him, but I understood that he did not fully understand me because he had violated a trust that is not a part of the act of forgiveness. It is essentially the same problem married couples face when one of them cheats. The act can be forgiven, and even love can be restored, but the trust must be earned back. The breach only heals with time. That is the price to be paid, and that is outside of our range as mortals. (at least speaking from my experience.) I knew he was genuinly sorry, and he did all he could to express that. I accepted his soulful expression of sorrow for what he had done, but I could not restore the trust. Only God and time could do that. Sometimes a lifetime is not long enough.
I know that sounds unfair in a situation where you were taking a drug that a Dr. prescribed for a disease that is no fault of your own. Do what you canto make amends. If she choses not to forgive you, that is her choice and SHE has to work that through for herself. Do not confuse lack of forgiveness with broken trust. Lay your true sorrow at her feet, then wait. If you truly love her and have made your best effort then you have done your part. If she never forgives you then she is chosing to carry around garbage and you have no control over that. Do not let her lack of forgiveness after a reasonable amount of time weigh you down. I cannot say what a reasonable amt of time is. I can tell you that broken trust may never be repaired in this lifetime. There is a reason for every experience in life. One day you will benefit from this if you do all you can on your part to deserve forgiveness. Welcome to the doorway of a spiritual journey that will last the rest of your life should you chose to travel it well. And yes you probably will be extending a hand to someone who needs it one day. Maybe someone who will be in a very similar situation....after all there are no new mistakes...someone has made all of them before and many will make them again in the future. Thats it for me tonight....gotta put my soapbox away...
love ya....stay strong and get your meds fixed!!!

Hi Rosebud,

I hope that your not comparing the act of almost being raped to an email letter. I think, if I understand you correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) You're trying to show how my niece feels now, since I sent her that email. When I woke up that morning and realized what I had done. I knew right away that I had lost her trust and that I might never get it back. I emailed her again and admitted what I had done and ask her to forgive me. I tried to explain why I had done this and I don't think I did a very good job of it because I didn't understand it myself. I told her I was sorry for hurting her and that I felt really bad about what happened.

I then did some researched about it. I knew in my heart that I would not of done this to my niece (the girl I love like a daughter) had I not been under the influence of drugs. What I learned that taking Parkinson's drugs a person could and would (in some instances) do just about anything and not be able to control it. I found an article where a man in Ontario was acquitted of being a child molester because he had Parkinson's. I can't remember if was the Parkinson or the drugs but he was acquitted nonetheless. I also found other articles of Parkies having weird addictions, like your shoe purchasing.

I emailed her all the articles I had found and again asked her forgiveness and nothing. I haven't heard from her since I sent the first email. I realize that I hurt her tremendously and I was hoping that she would talk to me about it but she chooses not to, so I have to respect that and Hope that maybe someday, she'll learned to forgive me. So I've resigned myself that she won't and I have to move on, but I can't. She's in my mind everyday, every minute of the day, I'm in living hell and I guess that's the penalty for what I've done.

Please (and I don't mean to sound disrespectful) don't throw God at me, because I'm an Atheist. I believe in the spirit of a person and what's inside them that makes them good or bad and it's not God, that's all I'll say on the subject. A heck, I changed my mind, if it makes you feel better to talk about God to me, go ahead I can take it, after all, it's not all about me, I just realized. Sometimes I'm all little thick.

I enjoy hearing from all of you and I hope you're all keeping well.

for my niece
I'm sorry (I'll never stop telling you)
I love you
Unc C

[rosebud]

I couldn't find a reference to God in my post....did I miss something?
(oops, yes I did...didn't mean to preach)
Your actions created a reaction in her. Your niece is feeling betrayed. Betrayal by someone loved and trusted is a knife that cuts deeper than any other. My story is just to illustrate my point, not a comparison. Human relations are very personal and unique in each of us. May I suggest you send a beautiful bouquet of flowers with a short hand written note asking for forgiveness. There are times when e-mail just doesn't cut it.

"Forgiveness is the scent of the violet left on the heel that crushed it"
Marke Twain (I think)

[Jo*mar]

Give your niece time... It may take a month or even longer for the shock & embarrassment of it all to not be so "fresh".

Time does heal..
... maybe she would prefer to let it all just fade into the back ground and forget that it happened.
You apologized sincerely and sent the relevant info to her, now you just need to wait and see how it goes.

[sept08]

I couldn't find a reference to God in my post....did I miss something?
(oops, yes I did...didn't mean to preach)
Your actions created a reaction in her. Your niece is feeling betrayed. Betrayal by someone loved and trusted is a knife that cuts deeper than any other. My story is just to illustrate my point, not a comparison. Human relations are very personal and unique in each of us. May I suggest you send a beautiful bouquet of flowers with a short hand written note asking for forgiveness. There are times when e-mail just doesn't cut it.

"Forgiveness is the scent of the violet left on the heel that crushed it"
Marke Twain (I think)

Rosebud,

You sound offended and again I'm sorry. I don't mean to offend but it seems I always do. I have the greatest respect for you for sharing your terrible story with me. The fact that you would share your story with a complete stranger to help me is a tribute of how good a person you are and I hope that some day I can follow in you footsteps, for helping people.

I never met you, but I can feel the love your you have for everyone. You my dear, are a special person and I love you for what your are doing. (I hope that doen't sound to brash) but I think you know where I'm coming from.

My niece and I love her deeply and I now realize how much I hurt her (thanks to you my dear) I now realize that I have to give her time to heal. I think I will let it go for now and hope that someday she may call me her favorite uncle again.

Thank You or all you comforting advice
love to all of you

and to my favorite niece
love
Unc C

[sept08]

Give your niece time... It may take a month or even longer for the shock & embarrassment of it all to not be so "fresh".

Time does heal..
... maybe she would prefer to let it all just fade into the back ground and forget that it happened.
You apologized sincerely and sent the relevant info to her, now you just need to wait and see how it goes.

Jo55

Thanks for your response and I will take your advice also. I need to let things heal, if it ever will, only time will tell.

love to you

claude

[rosebud]

It is nearly impossible to offend me. No apologies needed. I decided a long time ago that being offended is a complete waste of time....It really frees you up from other peoples baggage. :)

May the Force be with you....love, rosie posie

[Wiix]

Thank you all for replying and understanding. I'm off to bed but tomorrow I'll give you the details on the drugs I'm taking.

Just to let you know, it was a week were I hadn't slept very well and my body was jumping all over the place, this was the first time this movement was that bad.

The person I offended was my niece, a niece that I love like a daughter. She won't talk to me anymore and it's breaking my heart. I really hurt her a lot, telling her I wanted to be her lover and stuff like that. I'm feel so ashamed, even though I know it wasn't me saying that stuff.......

Oh my. But I think people even NOT on meds do this. You really can't make excuses for what you did. This is something you will have consequenses of. But I think you already know this.

I know I have done things in my life I'm not proud of and wish I never did but we all do Stupid things, admit it or not. sometimes I just lay on my bed and think about all the things I have done that were REALLY DUMB. I'm ashamed of my life because of these ridiculous things. But I do realize that at the time and my state of mind, they SEEMED like good ideas at the time. http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/images/iconsb/crazy.gif

As far as your niece. Hmmm. :confused: Hard to say what you can do. I don't think you can really fix it. She knows, you know and who else knows?? If you bring it up with her OR her parents OR anyone else, you know it isn't going to resolve anything. These kinds of things just seem to never be resolved. You have lost her trust, that's a given. Maybe you should just stay away from her.

[sept08]

Oh my. But I think people even NOT on meds do this. You really can't make excuses for what you did. This is something you will have consequenses of. But I think you already know this.

You'll have to excuse me but I don't think I'm making excuses, I'm just trying to understand why I did what I did. If you knew me you would know that what I did it out of character for me. I've always lived my life putting peoples feelings ahead of myself, even for people I don't know. That's the way I was brought up and that's the way I live my life. I'm just trying to understand why I would do something like that so I don't repeat it again.

You may have done a lot of stupid things in you life that you're ashamed off, but I haven't. When you did those stupid things, didn't you try to analyze them so not to do them again?

I know I have done things in my life I'm not proud of and wish I never did but we all do Stupid things, admit it or not. sometimes I just lay on my bed and think about all the things I have done that were REALLY DUMB. I'm ashamed of my life because of these ridiculous things. But I do realize that at the time and my state of mind, they SEEMED like good ideas at the time.

As far as your niece. Hmmm. :confused: Hard to say what you can do. I don't think you can really fix it. She knows, you know and who else knows?? If you bring it up with her OR her parents OR anyone else, you know it isn't going to resolve anything. These kinds of things just seem to never be resolved. You have lost her trust, that's a given. Maybe you should just stay away from her.

I realize I can't fix it, even if she talks to me again, things will never be the same again. My niece is an adult and it's and I realize it's her choice to either talk to me about it or someone else, I'll respect whatever she decides.

I'm not on here trying to make excuses or gain sympathy for what I did. I did what I did and I will live with that for the rest of my life. If doing bad things is part of your character, it's not mine, believe it or not, your choice.

Claude

[sept08]

Oh my. But I think people even NOT on meds do this. You really can't make excuses for what you did. This is something you will have consequenses of. But I think you already know this.

You'll have to excuse me but I don't think I'm making excuses, I'm just trying to understand why I did what I did. If you knew me you would know that what I did it out of character for me. I've always lived my life putting peoples feelings ahead of myself, even for people I don't know. That's the way I was brought up and that's the way I live my life. I'm just trying to understand why I would do something like that so I don't repeat it again.

You may have done a lot of stupid things in you life that you're ashamed off, but I haven't. When you did those stupid things, didn't you try to analyze them so not to do them again?

I know I have done things in my life I'm not proud of and wish I never did but we all do Stupid things, admit it or not. sometimes I just lay on my bed and think about all the things I have done that were REALLY DUMB. I'm ashamed of my life because of these ridiculous things. But I do realize that at the time and my state of mind, they SEEMED like good ideas at the time.

As far as your niece. Hmmm. :confused: Hard to say what you can do. I don't think you can really fix it. She knows, you know and who else knows?? If you bring it up with her OR her parents OR anyone else, you know it isn't going to resolve anything. These kinds of things just seem to never be resolved. You have lost her trust, that's a given. Maybe you should just stay away from her.

I realize I can't fix it, even if she talks to me again, things will never be the same again. My niece is an adult and it's and I realize it's her choice to either talk to me about it or someone else, I'll respect whatever she decides.

I'm not on here trying to make excuses or gain sympathy for what I did. I did what I did and I will live with that for the rest of my life. If doing bad things is part of your character, it's not mine, believe it or not, your choice.

Claude

[sept08]

Oh my. But I think people even NOT on meds do this. You really can't make excuses for what you did. This is something you will have consequenses of. But I think you already know this.

You may have done a lot of stupid things in you life that you're ashamed off, but I haven't. When you did those stupid things, didn't you try to analyze them so not to do them again?

I know I have done things in my life I'm not proud of and wish I never did but we all do Stupid things, admit it or not. sometimes I just lay on my bed and think about all the things I have done that were REALLY DUMB. I'm ashamed of my life because of these ridiculous things. But I do realize that at the time and my state of mind, they SEEMED like good ideas at the time.

As far as your niece. Hmmm. :confused: Hard to say what you can do. I don't think you can really fix it. She knows, you know and who else knows?? If you bring it up with her OR her parents OR anyone else, you know it isn't going to resolve anything. These kinds of things just seem to never be resolved. You have lost her trust, that's a given. Maybe you should just stay away from her.


You'll have to excuse me but I don't think I'm making excuses, I'm just trying to understand why I did what I did. If you knew me you would know that what I did it out of character for me. I've always lived my life putting peoples feelings ahead of myself, even for people I don't know. That's the way I was brought up and that's the way I live my life. I'm just trying to understand why I would do something like that so I don't repeat it again.

You may have done a lot of stupid things in you life that you're ashamed off, but I haven't. When you did those stupid things, didn't you try to analyze them so not to do them again?

I realize I can't fix it, even if she talks to me again, things will never be the same again. My niece is an adult and it's and I realize it's her choice to either talk to me about it or someone else, I'll respect whatever she decides.

I'm not on here trying to make excuses or gain sympathy for what I did. I did what I did and I will live with that for the rest of my life. If doing bad things is part of your character, it's not mine, believe it or not, your choice.

Claude

[sept08]

It is nearly impossible to offend me. No apologies needed. I decided a long time ago that being offended is a complete waste of time....It really frees you up from other peoples baggage. :)

May the Force be with you....love, rosie posie


and with you also....love Unc C

[harley]

i have been trying to figure out how to reply to this thread. i was victim of incest by my brother when i was a preteen and it is difficult subject matter. though the act didn't take place in your situation, the intent was suggested and persued and the shock of it will be felt in her for a long long time. trust is a precious and delicate commonity in all relationships, but when family members violate that trust, the wound is very deep. i think the only thing you can do know is allow time to take its course. whether or not she forgives you, it is you that must look in the mirror.

the amount of agonist you are taking is quite low. i dont see how it could be possible that this is the cause of what has taken place. i could be wrong, but in my opinion, a more beneficial answer is to seek some intense counceling instead of looking at your medication regime.

[dbiker2]

Claude I think I understand what you are going through, I too did something that I shouldnt have and that was out of character. You dont have to defend yourself to anyone, I know you are not trying to make excuses, you are just trying to get perspective. You did what you did, you apologized for it and asked for forgiveness. Thats all you can do. My wife forgave me but our 30 year marriage still ended as a result. The person I offended said she forgave me but we have not spoken since, its been about 5 years. I am now remarried to a wonderful woman, before we were married I told her about it.

I was taking 25mg of Requip a day at the time now I am taking 0mg!!

[olsen]

As far as the agonist dose being too little to have an effect upon hypersexuality, there is an important finding in the following study evidenced by the notation:"There were no differences between the hypersexuality group and controls in terms of total levodopa dose or total dopamine-agonist dose calculated in levodopa dose equivalents..."

abstarcted from : http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/558276

"..."We wanted to identify as clear a group as possible between hypersexuality and pathological gambling to see if there were individual vulnerabilities that might be different between the 2 groups," Dr. Voon pointed out, and they did find differences that might help in counseling and monitoring patients on PD medications...

"..If you see a patient who is male, has current major depression and higher novelty seeking, they're at greater risk of developing hypersexuality, as opposed to someone who has a personal or family history of alcohol-use disorder and has high novelty seeking, who is more likely to develop gambling symptoms, where you'd be more likely to watch out for that."

11th International Congress of Parkinson's Disease and Movement Disorders: Poster 595. Presented June 6, 2007.


In the current study, the researchers compared 18 patients fulfilling diagnostic criteria for hypersexuality with 42 PD patients without compulsive behaviors. All subjects with hypersexuality were male, with a mean age of 58.6 years. They then compared factors associated with hypersexuality with those seen in the previous paper with 19 PD subjects who had pathological gambling associated with treatment.

They found that subjects with hypersexuality were more likely to be male (100% male in this sample), but that association was not seen in the gambling group. Both hypersexuality and gambling patients had a significantly younger age at PD onset.

There were no differences between the hypersexuality group and controls in terms of total levodopa dose or total dopamine-agonist dose calculated in levodopa dose equivalents, Dr. Voon noted. Other studies have shown an association with dose, but compulsive medication use in these patients may confound this association, she said.

No associations with markers of disease progression were apparent, she said, although there appeared to be a trend toward more dyskinesias in the hypersexuality group. "The P value was .1, but that may be a power issue, so it's an interesting question," she noted.

They also looked at several characteristics that might be associated with individual vulnerabilities to addiction and found some differences here as well between the group with hypersexuality and those who developed pathological gambling.

For example, alcohol-use disorders were common in pathological gambling, but no association was seen with hypersexuality. Current major depression was significantly associated with hypersexuality vs controls without compulsive behaviors, but not in the pathological-gambling group.

Mania was associated with gambling, but there was only a trend to an association with hypersexuality. Both hypersexuality and pathological-gambling patients showed an association with novelty seeking — essentially a temperament that tends toward risk-taking or thrill-seeking behaviors.

In subjects where male gender, younger age at PD onset, current major depression, and novelty seeking were all present, they predicted hypersexuality at 87.2% in a logistic regression model.

[sept08]

i have been trying to figure out how to reply to this thread. i was victim of incest by my brother when i was a preteen and it is difficult subject matter. though the act didn't take place in your situation, the intent was suggested and persued and the shock of it will be felt in her for a long long time. trust is a precious and delicate commonity in all relationships, but when family members violate that trust, the wound is very deep. i think the only thing you can do know is allow time to take its course. whether or not she forgives you, it is you that must look in the mirror.

the amount of agonist you are taking is quite low. i dont see how it could be possible that this is the cause of what has taken place. i could be wrong, but in my opinion, a more beneficial answer is to seek some intense counceling instead of looking at your medication regime.

What makes you think that I need "Intense counceling" as you put it. You know nothing about me yet you decided that because the agonist was to low to have any effect on me.

These thoughts that I had only started when I started the PD drugs. I informed my Urologist about it 6 months back and he just laughed it off. Just to let you know, my GP had informed me that I was highly sensitive to any drugs and that I was to be careful taking any.

I'm only telling you all this because you decided to judge me and condem me at the same time.

By the way, you're not the only one to have been the victim of incest, When I was 11 I was sexually abused by my own father.

Have a great day
C

[Jo*mar]

From reading on many of the forums over the last few years I have noticed that meds can and do affect everyone differently.

All meds , all conditions - some work, some don't work and some people are highly sensitive to many meds.

[harley]

didnt mean to upset the all ready toppled applecart there claude. just bein blunt. i have done many many things i feel badly about throughout the years before and after pd was in my life. i had to pick up my apples, put them back in the cart and learn from it. you did something that wasnt so cool.. guess what? you're human. that fact doesnt excuse it, but it does explain it. you feel badly and apologized. this shows that you feel. and counceling is a good method of dealing with those feelings.

not everything is tied to meds. sometimes, meds are too easy to blame things on. i have not judged you. it is not my place to do that. and condemning another parkie is just not a wise thing to do. we all make mistakes. i put in my 2 cents to help you understand her side of it. im sure you may know a little of it yourself since you unfortunately had to live with a similiar trauma from your father.. which i am truly sorry happened to you. counceling would help you deal with that issue as well.

parkinsons encompasses alot of emotional areas. and it is also possible that you did what you did due to the grief we go through when diagnosed. only you know inwardly what happened, that is why i stated to look in the mirror. i forgave my brother because he did. it took a long time, but i did. i am just another parkie here. .. chill...

[olsen]

and sometimes meds ARE the reason. and parkinson's affects the pleasure centers of the brain, dopamine which controls that center, as well as many other brain areas and neurotransmitters. The effects from agonists for one person may depend upon which specific area of the brain is involved in that person's disease process; many people do not respond to agonists, though do to L-dopa. Guess that's their fault.....

[sept08]

didnt mean to upset the all ready toppled applecart there claude. just bein blunt. i have done many many things i feel badly about throughout the years before and after pd was in my life. i had to pick up my apples, put them back in the cart and learn from it. you did something that wasnt so cool.. guess what? you're human. that fact doesnt excuse it, but it does explain it. you feel badly and apologized. this shows that you feel. and counceling is a good method of dealing with those feelings.

not everything is tied to meds. sometimes, meds are too easy to blame things on. i have not judged you. it is not my place to do that. and condemning another parkie is just not a wise thing to do. we all make mistakes. i put in my 2 cents to help you understand her side of it. im sure you may know a little of it yourself since you unfortunately had to live with a similiar trauma from your father.. which i am truly sorry happened to you. counceling would help you deal with that issue as well.

parkinsons encompasses alot of emotional areas. and it is also possible that you did what you did due to the grief we go through when diagnosed. only you know inwardly what happened, that is why i stated to look in the mirror. i forgave my brother because he did. it took a long time, but i did. i am just another parkie here. .. chill...

Just because some of you don't believe that the meds had anything to do with it, doesn't mean that they didn't. I'm the only one that can say if they did or not. Do you think I'd be on here putting my life out there for everyone to see if I wasn't sure of what happened. The meds had everything to do with it, weather it's the PD meds or the heart meds that I'm on or a combination of.

I came on here trying to find out if it has happened to anyone else. I feel that Doctors may know a lot but they don't know everything. I've found over the years it's better to go to the horses mouth if you want to find out anything, that's why I'm here. I've done a lot of research of heart and drugs when I first had heart problems and I've been able to eliminate certain drugs from the cocktail that they had prescribed for me. Even my heart specialist agreed with me after going over the research that I done.

So you see, just like my heart research I'm doing research on the effects of drugs on the brain. I have never entertained any such thoughts like I have had since I started the PD drugs and when I brought it up to my Euro, all he could talk about is weather I had any tendencies to gamble. I'm under the impression that he's never heard of people in my situation and therefore just shrouded it off. DOES NOT MEAN IT CAN'T HAPPENED! I'm seeing him again soon and I'm going to impress on him the importance of my situation and see what he says.

If you guys are interested, I could come back and share the docs response with you, maybe you could learn something new or maybe not.

I just know I will never stop searching for an answer, just like I did for the research of my heart meds.

Claude, I'm chilling

[CTenaLouise]

to me Mirapex & Sinemet equal - an insane asylum in your brain, I was given the meds by a top neurologists at Kansas University Hospital,
just know this: what I did was equally as crazy but not the same,
as mine was slot machine mania...
the sex mania was not my symptom -yet men and women have different
drives - and with the reward system feeding for pleasure,
the bell reward - pavlovian reward was enough for me -
and the worst part was I did not actually know why I was so crazy?
I live in the USA so the psychiatrist I go to doesnt prescribe mirapex, the old name sinemet/ now generic...
The addictions are horribly devastating what ever they may be -
I see no shame in seeing any doctor for help / if they do not help you.
find a way to replace the insane behavior...
I would rather this have *not happened - yet I can not change the past,
yet I can learn from this - and help my future...and others futures by warning them...

[Curious]

What makes you think that I need "Intense counceling" as you put it. You know nothing about me yet you decided that because the agonist was to low to have any effect on me.

These thoughts that I had only started when I started the PD drugs. I informed my Urologist about it 6 months back and he just laughed it off. Just to let you know, my GP had informed me that I was highly sensitive to any drugs and that I was to be careful taking any.

I'm only telling you all this because you decided to judge me and condem me at the same time.

By the way, you're not the only one to have been the victim of incest, When I was 11 I was sexually abused by my own father.

Have a great day
C

claude, maybe that is the key as to why the med effected you the way it did.

i know this was hard for you to post about. you had to know there would be people on the other side ( as you are yourself also) who would reply as they have. it's a very sensitive subject. hurt on both sides.

i do hope you and your neice go to some type of counseling. you are both victims.

:hug:

[rosebud]

Its been my experience that when some one reacts strongly to a responding post, the responding post has struck a chord somewhere inside....wether we recognize it or not. If you had not reacted to Harley's post so intensley I don't think I would have given it a second thought. Later when you disclosed the unspeakable (and it is an unspeakable act, especially by a parent) you let us in just a little closer to understanding why you are condeming yourself so harshly for your indiscression. We are not your judges, and even if we were, you have us all beat hands down in the harshness with which you have judged yourself. Some of the things that happen to us in this life are hidden away as years go by and just like a spike thats been driven into a tree the growth of the later years completely hides any sign of the spike, and noone knows it is even there...except it is, and it makes a weakness in that beautiful big tree. And eventually it plays a part in the destruction of the tree. Forgiveness is a deeply spiritual act. Is it possible that you cannot believe she would forgive you because you have never forgiven the one who victimized a young boy? As I said...just something to ponder.... we are your friends and we do care. R

[stevem53]

Claude..The counseling probably isnt a bad idea..I am not judging you..I am thinking here, number one..You were abused by your father..Maybe you've sought help for that, I dont know..Number two, I think maybe it would benefit you by seeking council to deal with the guilt and sadness you are feeling, cuz, you must be experiencing worsening pd symptoms as a result of all this worry and stress..Just saying..Stress is like kryptonite to pd

[leonore]

Claude, this is coming from a therapist of 25 years: you need to talk to your niece's parent(s) and tell them what happened, and tell them that you would like to see a competent family therapist, with her and with them, who specializes in sexual abuse issues, in order to make amends and restore yur relationship with this niece. How old is she, first of all? First she will need to hear that was happened was wrong and absolutely not her fault. She will need validation and comfort from her parents, and from a therapist, who will help you and her to carefully bring you both back to the days before this happened, and re-tie the bonds that seemed to have existed before.
Your anguish tells us all alot about you-you must be a good person to feel so much remorse--and the medication must be the origin of this--but it still happened and is real for your niece..
Explain to adults in her life that Parkinson's med's can disinhibit some people, but first discuss ths event ASAP with your PD doctor, who must also speak to your niece's parent(s) about this. I suspect this was caused by an agonist.
If you say to her that it "wasn't really you," then you will not be able to heal what has happened with your niece, as you will make her feel confused, invalidated in her hurt and anger, and not able to really hear your apology, or ever take it seriously. You have to acknowledge that it was "you," but a you who was under the influence of medication that is supposed to help your disease, but sometimes makes it hard to listen to the inner police officer inside of you that normally helps you put on the brakes and stop you from doing or saying the wrong thing.
This will be really hard to do, Claude, but has to happen immediately, with your doctor as ally, to verify this, so your niece does not suffer any further from the betrayal she must be suffering of the trust she used to feel in you, around safety and boundaries.
I strongly recommend immediate action for your niece's sake,and for the sake of ever salvaging what used to be good in your and her relationship. Good luck, Leonore
Thank you all for replying and understanding. I'm off to bed but tomorrow I'll give you the details on the drugs I'm taking.

Just to let you know, it was a week were I hadn't slept very well and my body was jumping all over the place, this was the first time this movement was that bad.

The person I offended was my niece, a niece that I love like a daughter. She won't talk to me anymore and it's breaking my heart. I really hurt her a lot, telling her I wanted to be her lover and stuff like that. I'm feel so ashamed, even though I know it wasn't me saying that stuff.......

[leonore]

Everyone was very supportive to Claude, but his niece (and how old is she, I wonder?) most likely is now suffering PTSD from being the likely victim of an agonist's siezing control of Claude's ability to inhibit his impulses, wrecking the trust in what I'm hoping was until then a safe and good relationship.. What a tragedy, and a warning to all of us again, of the risks to everyone from these drugs, and of the toll they can take on families with these horrendous disinhibiting side effects. As a therapist, I've spent years helping clients who were sexually taken advantage of by relatives under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or mental illness.
I've also helped abuser deal with the scars left on them and their families after their betrayals of those they loved. How outrageous that with all the crap that our families (and we) have to put up with from our PD, that our medications, intended to help, turn out for so many to be so toxic!!!
I stay away from agonists myself, because they make me too sleepy, and because I have seen too many people fall asleep driving, or gamble their savings away, or lose sleep and fall the next day, out of fatigue, because they are so addicted to compulsive late-night computer time and don't get the sleep they need. Grrr. These drugs can be so bad for so many of us! Leonore

Here's my post to Claude.
.. Contact your niece's parent(s) and tell them what happened, and tell them that you would like to see a competent family therapist, with her and with them, who specializes in sexual abuse issues, in order to make amends and restore yur relationship with this niece. How old is she, first of all? First she will need to hear that was happened was wrong and absolutely not her fault. She will need validation and comfort from her parents, and from a therapist, who will help you and her to carefully bring you both back to the days before this happened, and re-tie the bonds that seemed to have existed before.
Your anguish tells us all alot about you-you must be a good person to feel so much remorse--and the medication must be the origin of this--but it still happened and is real for your niece..
Explain to adults in her life that Parkinson's med's can disinhibit some people, but first discuss ths event ASAP with your PD doctor, who must also speak to your niece's parent(s) about this. I suspect this was caused by an agonist.
If you say to her that it "wasn't really you," then you will not be able to heal what has happened with your niece, as you will make her feel confused, invalidated in her hurt and anger, and not able to really hear your apology, or ever take it seriously. You have to acknowledge that it was "you," but a you who was under the influence of medication that is supposed to help your disease, but sometimes makes it hard to listen to the inner police officer inside of you that normally helps you put on the brakes and stop you from doing or saying the wrong thing.
This will be really hard to do, Claude, but has to happen immediately, with your doctor as ally, to verify this, so your niece does not suffer any further from the betrayal she must be suffering of the trust she used to feel in you, around safety and boundaries.
I strongly recommend immediate action for your niece's sake,and for the sake of ever salvaging what used to be good in your and her relationship. Good luck, Leonore
Thank you all for replying and understanding. I'm off to bed but tomorrow I'll give you the details on the drugs I'm taking.

Just to let you know, it was a week were I hadn't slept very well and my body was jumping all over the place, this was the first time this movement was that bad.

The person I offended was my niece, a niece that I love like a daughter. She won't talk to me anymore and it's breaking my heart. I really hurt her a lot, telling her I wanted to be her lover and stuff like that. I'm feel so ashamed, even though I know it wasn't me saying that stuff.......

[sept08]

See this post

Claude

[Jo*mar]

His niece is an adult as he posted previously.

I think he found the answers that he was searching for.

[paula_w]

Claude,

If you direct your contacts to this URL, they can all see the posts, if that's what you meant.

paula


See this post

Claude

[sept08]

Claude,

If you direct your contacts to this URL, they can all see the posts, if that's what you meant.

paula

I want to be able to post on the regular forums but have only my contacts to see what I post.

[Curious]

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/index.php

here is the whole list claude. PM me if you need help. :hug:

[Curious]

I want to be able to post on the regular forums but have only my contacts to see what I post.


claude, if you want to post privatly to only friends ( contacts ) on the forum, you will need to set up a private intitation only Social Group. i can help you set one up, if that is what you want.

[Chemar]

Claude has requested this thread to be closed.

If members wish to continue a discussion on the topic of these potential side effects of meds, you are welcome to start a new thread.