View Full Version : Melody, I need to pick your....
11-15-2006, 03:21 PM
BRAIN....I'm hypoglycemic, and my Alan counterpart has type 2 diabetes. While I've learned about managing my hi's and lo's any research I've done essentially treats them THE SAME. I really don't think they are, tho some diet aspects are very much the same others are not. Can you point me to some basics in terms of reference sites? The ADA seems to want you to BUY their books to find out. Rite now, I simply want to 'eliminate' the diabetic no-no's from the house and let him put the blame on 'splurges' elsewhere.
I guess the complication is that slow digesting CARBS an evil word in diabetes are the things that help ME the most....I've no gluten sensitivity issues [been tested and zilch] so, I'm asking, I think, is what alternatives to the potatoes, corn, pastas and breads can I offer as nosh-friendly 'fillers'. Simply put, how/what should be in my fridge aside from the veggies? There have to be some goodies I can entice for noshing....
Maybe this should be under the diabetes thread or gluten, or nutrition, or whatever. But, I not only CRAVE carbs, but more than CRAVE RED MEAT...tho I've had little for quite a while.. Makes me feel like a vampire. Melody and all, thanks in advance for any guidance! - j
11-15-2006, 03:55 PM
so what you are saying is that YOU have low blood sugar and your hubby has HIGH blood sugar. And you read that the treatment is the SAME ?? for both conditions???
That's a new one for me.
I've done lots of reading on diabetes type 2, which is what I have and what your hubby has. I'm on lantus and I eat a diet (extremely healthy by the way).
I haven't eaten any red meat for years and I don't crave any (so no vampire here). I also don't crave any carbs whatsoever because, for some reason my body craves protein. I just had two pieces of grilled chicken with a salad just now. In the salad are some tomatoes, some romaine lettuce, a handful of sliced black olives, (well whatever you wish to put in a salad). I then add garlic powder, pepper, basil, and some lemon and some (as Rachel Ray puts it ) SOME EVOO. Extra virgin olive oil.
I prefer this over a piece of cake every time. I guess I'm lucky, I don't get cravings and I don't eat a single thing after 7 p.m. at night. NOTHING. The last thing I eat is that after my dinner, I have a cup of decaf with a little bag of one of those 100 calories cookie things. They have a whole bunch of various ones like chocolate crisps, or peanut butter things). They are little cookie things and the whole bag is 100 calories. I call it my discretionary 100 calorie allotment for the day.
Now you ask what you can put in your fridge to entice you. At least I think it's for you. You want to know what carbs you can eat, right?
Well, unless I don't know what low blood sugar means, can't you eat a piece of fresh fruit (like watermelon (that's loaded with sugar,for example), or a banana, maybe. The idea is to eat small meals during the day to keep your blood sugar stable, right?
Are you doing this. I have a different problem. I had a lot of weight to lose and I'm more than halfway there and I found a plan that works for me but it might not work well for everybody else. There isn't a refined carb to be found in my house. Except for that 100 bag of little cookies that I allow myself after dinner, there is no bread, no corn, and certainly no potatoes.
That would kill my blood sugar.
But since you are not a diabetic, what about a baked potato with your dinner. With a pat of smart balance margarine. Don't see that hurting you.
What is your sugar reading in the morning? does it go down or up during the day?
I assume you have an endocrinologist? I went to Cornell in NYC and they sent me to a nutritionist. Boy did Alan and I learn a lesson. We both eat exactly the same (and he has never been a diabetic or had hypoglycemia).
so what works for us, well, it works for us.
The nutritionist said to us "eliminate red meat from your diet". I told her. "don't worry, haven't had it for years". She said "good you are already ahead of the game." We talked about fruits during the day. I don't eat any because it impacts my sugar. Now Alan. He lives on the stuff.
He eats up until he goes to bed. He eats fat free youghurt, he eats fruit, he takes those whey shakes. I never saw a man eat so much after he went to a nutritionist in my entire life. BUT....he goes to the gym every chance he gets and he pumps iron. I don't do that and I don't think you do that either.
So let me ask you one thing? Because I'm not clear. Are you asking me what snacks you can have in the fridge FOR YOU?? because you are hypoglemic?
If I am right, the main thing is to keep your blood sugar level as much as you can. Eating a good breakfast with some fresh fruit. A good lunch (like my grilled chicken over salad (I've eaten this every single day for 5 years and never got tired of it). And our dinner iis as follows:
Protein (fish or chicken) or if it's spaghetti night, a dish of Dreamfield's low carb spaghetti). Absolutely delicious with a marinara sauce.
Side dishes of any veggies you like.
Now I don't eat potatoes but Alan eats one potato that I slice up thin and pan fry in PAM. so no fat but does have carbs so I don't go near them.
From what you wrote, I take it you get a lot hungrier than I do. You need snacks right? Well, I don't snack and I'm so used to it, I don't think about it.
But if I wanted a snack, I'd have some sugar free pudding or jello (instead of the 100 calorie cookie thing). In my pantry, you won't find stuff with partially hydrogenated anything, or high fructose corn syrup or sugar. As I indicated the only indulgence I have is the 100 calorie cookie thing which of course has these things but I figure, one 100 calorie cookie thing a day won't kill me and so far it hasn't changed my sugar reading and I'm still losing weight.
But I would think that an occasional cupcake or small dish of ice cream couldn't hurt you right? (because you are not diabetic, right?).
So write me back and tell me exactly what you want to know.
Sorry i'm so dense.
11-16-2006, 07:18 AM
--it's not unusual for it to be recommended that hypoglycemia and insulin resistance/impaired glucose tolerance be treated similarly, as hypoglycemia that is not caused by a tumor of the pancreas or some other strucutural disorder--that is, hypoglycemia that happens in reaction to nutrient intake--is often consided the first sign of insulin resistance.
What seems to happen is that the body had started to experience trouble getting glucose past cell walls and has begun to upregulate the amount of insulin it produces to do that, but since this is an early stage, and the feedback mechanism is not exact and has a time lag, the body will often overproduce insulin in a "first spike" to a relatively small amount of glucose being introduced to the bloodstream, resulting in glucose levels being driven down below normal "fasting" levels for that person. Such a sharp drop in glucose levels can often be experienced as the "sugar crash", and typically happens 1-3 hours after eating a meal that is substantially glucose/sucrose/fructose, even if the actual amount of total sugar ingested in not huge. People can experience this on a pint of strawberries as easily as they can on two pieces of lemon pie.
The general advice on this has been to follow a sort of Zone-like diet, with small, frequent meals involving carbohydrate, protein, and a small amount of fat (to keep the glucose from emptying too quickly into the blood stream), as well as to stay away from simple, non-fiber, processed carbs in favor of "raw" ones--the broccoli instead of the bread. Of course, some version of this advice is often given to diabetics, as well; it's two sides of the same coin, in that this kind of post-meal hypoglycemia is often a precursor to more serious insulin resistance/impaired glucose tolerance.
Now, those who by testing show severe fasting hypoglycemia (fast of 12 hours or more) usually have a more organic problem, as mentioned above, such as an insulin secreting pacreatic tumor that is not much affected by the ups and downs of blood sugar levels and eating. In most people, including those with post-meal "reactive" hypoglycemia, a fast will, at least for a day or so, result in a stablilizing of sugar and insulin levels as the body first uses liver glycogen stores, and then fat stores, to keep vital processes going.
11-16-2006, 09:39 AM
This is the best guide to hypoglycemia that I've found. I've had this condition since I was about 24 years old.
11-16-2006, 11:54 AM
You asked me a question about hypoglycemia. I respond with plain old diet stuff and these guys (who actually know more than I ever could know in my lifetime), respond with actual medical information.
So from now on if you want to hear funny stories, then by all means, I'm here but people like Glen and Billye, well their input could fill an encyclopedia.
I will make you laugh however.....
click on this link and put it in your favorite place. I warn you however, IT'S ADDICTING!!!
here's the link:
11-16-2006, 01:11 PM
so late in my reply - life was on hold today until my IVIG infusion was done...
I've been border-line hypo-g since a kid [about 7yo], and webbing stuff up I've had incidents of both 'post-prandial/reactive[?]' and 'fasting' hypo-g since then. All random and usually results in the classic 'shakes' and/or fainting spells that last from 2-10 minutes. I've had fasting glucose tests and GTT tests over the years and except for my very first GTT a loong time ago, all has been disgustingly normal. Maybe it's ideopathic???? [joke here!]
Maybe my brain is being a worry-wort, but it's on a track of thinking that since hypo-g is soo close to diabetes, that it's mite have been, and still is a contributor to the neuropathies. You know, cross one other thing absolutely off the list...
I'm going to read deeply each site you've all referenced, and I've questions, lots of them. I've been searching in my area for quick and dirty classes about 'eating for diabetes' to help my husband, but I've a feeling I should be more cautious... I know the carb thing slows, balances or neutralizes the low-parts of the curb tho, and I'm wondering if those extra tests would be worth the effort....Would that mean adding a 'rheumy' to my doc's lists?
I'm beginning to feel like a hypochrondriac w/the multiple things affecting things which affect other things... Lots more to learn and all that chemistry to confuse me! Thank you ALL, lots to learn absorb and process! Feedback tomorrow for sure! - Many pain free moments for each of your!!! - j
11-16-2006, 01:28 PM
"I've had incidents of both 'post-prandial/reactive[?]' and 'fasting' hypo-g "
like I even know what the heck this means!!! See what I mean? I'm hopeless.
I do know what it is like to start going blind in the kitchen and shout out loud "Alan, my sugar is low, I'm going blind". I call it "winking out".
I have no idea where I came up with the term winking out but it fits what happens to me when my sugar goes to 60. It doesn't happen often, but it HAS happened. The first time,I had no idea why my vision started to change. My legs didn't shake (that's what happened to a friend of mine) and because I had no reference point, I never knew that my sugar was low.
I had forgotten to eat lunch one day and I saw pixels floating in front of my face and my vision was distorted and I said "Alan, alan, and he knew enough to pour me some orange juice. I was fine in two minutes flat.
It has only happened to me, maybe 3 times in all my diabetic life.
But I'm a smart enough cookie to know that I have to eat every few hours.
And oddly, I don't eat a stitch after 7 pm. Nothing, NADA, no snacks, nothing.
I asked the guys at Cornell, "is it okay that I don't eat after 7 p.m." and once they made sure that I never had any "low blood sugar episodes", they said "fine, whatever works for you".
I mean, (and this is a good question). Does it ever happen that I could "wink out", during my sleep mode and I wouldn't know it?
I just eat my dinner at 5 or 6 p.m., have my cup of decaf and sometimes I eat those 100 calorie things (I didn't have one last night), and then I'm good to go till the next morning. My sugar was 115 this morning. I am on 34 of the Lantus.
11-16-2006, 01:41 PM
Fasting means that your glucose levels are seriously lo when you haven't eaten in quite a while ...like 8-12 hours of not eating you bet shaky, fainting, dizzy etc.
Reactive/post-prandial means that you bottom out FAST after a rich meal, for me it means a hefty meal w/dessert. Same symptoms. The dessert thing is now a rare and super treat for me.
From most I've read the hypo-g usually is clumped in w/lo glucose levels in diabetics. But the issue is not a lack of insulin, it's a case of TOO much all at once that then causes the rest of your system to crashe suddenly. Similar, but not identical to Diabetes. Some chemistry differences[we all KNOW how strong I am on the chemistry!]. Other siblings are also hypoglycemic and not one of us shows signs of pre-diabetes or actual diabetes. Thus my confusions.
On to more homework m'dear....'Winking out' is a good term for it all tho!
Hugs and good stuff - j
11-16-2006, 09:23 PM
You said the following:
"Reactive/post-prandial means that you bottom out FAST after a rich meal, for me it means a hefty meal w/dessert. Same symptoms. The dessert thing is now a rare and super treat for me."
Are you saying that if you eat a big meal with a big dessert that YOUR BLOOD SUGAR DROPS???? Never heard such a thing in all my life.
boy, the things I learn on these boards.
11-17-2006, 06:43 AM
There is an initial blood sugar spike--and it may be a big one--but after that the overproduction of insulin drives blood sugar down to levels below those that individual usually has in a fasting state, thus the hypoglycemia. Levels usally stabilize as the insulin pulse recedes in response to the lower blood sugar, but this whole stabilizing process may take a total of 2-4 hours, and people can have lots of interesting symptoms in that time.
Much of my family is afflicted with this--my brother worst of all, apparently--although I was the first one to monitor the pattern by getting a 5-hour glucose tolerance test, with glucose AND insulin levels taken at baseline and every half-hour. We all show signs of insulin resistance in having relatively high baseline insulin levels, and we all tend to accumulate belly fat in that typical male metabolic syndrome way.
11-17-2006, 06:58 AM
Look it up at http://en.wikiipedia.orok/wiki/Hypoglycemia for the short version? Yes, it is like diabetes, but other chemestries and conditions can cause it. The hi/lo spikes of glucose, simply spike and slump much faster than diabetes, from what I'm learning.
It's those sharp peaks and valleys that are the 'killers' as you probably know well. To make it even more quirky, using a glucose meter won't catch it. The tests have to be for all the other hormones working in what I thinkcould best be described as overdrive at the time of 'events'. Where a diabetic in trouble would eat a bit of something sweet, for me, treatment is with the starches [one of those little cracker paks] to slow down the internal processing cycle-it happens so fast. I hope you 'get' this, as I've really, really got to work out a diet plan for the both of us.
Thanks all, I'll be following up later! - hugs!!!! - j
website with the glycemic indexes of common foods:
Try to pick items at 50 or below, with minimal items above 50.
Click on the categories and see the various lists.
Some surprises on there.
The faster a carb is metabolised as sugar, the higher the number.
You can have fruits... there are many at 50 or below.
Melody, as Alan works out more and more...there are nutritional requirements for muscles that need to be paid attention to.
Magnesium is a big one-- low magnesium could be impacting his legs.
and Crit Rev Food Sci Nutr. 2002;42(6):533-63. Links
Magnesium and exercise.
* Bohl CH,
* Volpe SL.
University of Massachusetts, Department of Nutrition, Amherst 01003, USA.
Magnesium is an essential element that regulates membrane stability and neuromuscular, cardiovascular, immune, and hormonal functions and is a critical cofactor in many metabolic reactions. The Dietary Reference Intake for magnesium for adults is 310 to 420 mg/day. However, the intake of magnesium in humans is often suboptimal. Magnesium deficiency may lead to changes in gastrointestinal, cardiovascular, and neuromuscular function. Physical exercise may deplete magnesium, which, together with a marginal dietary magnesium intake, may impair energy metabolism efficiency and the capacity for physical work. Magnesium assessment has been a challenge because of the absence of an accurate and convenient assessment method. Recently, magnesium has been touted as an agent for increasing athletic performance. This article reviews the various studies that have been conducted to investigate the relationship of magnesium and exercise.
PMID: 12487419 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
and B6 (pyridoxal is very important in energy use in muscles). A B complex would be a good idea, if he is not already taking one.
The whey shakes are doing a good job for him..helping with building lean muscle tissue. Good thing he is still using them!
11-17-2006, 10:23 AM
Don't worry, he takes magnesium every day. He takes vitamins, he takes his whey shakes (he's healthy as a horse, god bless him) if it werent' for the PN, he'd be perfect. And if one more person stops me on the street asking me "why is Alan thinner than he used to be (He used to weigh over 257 ), I shall surely deck them. I have never seen so many stupid people making such stupid comments in my life.
It's like they have nothing better to do. They literally zero in on what they notice and they feel "what's on their mind is on their lips".
I have come to my own conclusion that these are basically very 'NOT NICE PEOPLE" and I don't surround myself with them. I know it takes all kinds in this world BUT, at my age, I think I have the right to associate with non-gossipy, kind, caring and compassionate souls. The world would be a better place if everybody would just think before they open their mouth.
I remember going into a chinese take out one day (to get Alan some steamed salt-free, no sauce, Chicken and broccoli).
I will never forget when the proprietor took one look at me and said "Wow, you used to be really fat, what happened?'
But the best comment, (really, this is THE BEST), came from my landlady who several years ago (when I had lost most of my weight), motions me over and says to me "you look really good, and before I could say thank you", she hits me with "you know, when you and Alan first moved here, our neighbors used to ask me "look at those two fat people you rented to, why are you renting to such fat people"? I said to her, "are you serious (now these are my neighbors and I KNOW MY NEIGHBORS, I'M FRIENDLY WITH MY NEIGHBORS". And she continued "yeah, they said that, and remember when you used to sit on their porches across the street during the summer"???
I said "yeah, (all during every summer, about 30 of us would gather in front of the 96 year old woman's house (right across the street from where I live). We would bring out drinks, and chips, (diet for me) and some would bring their glasses of wine) and we used to get hysterical (all this was before 911 and one of us lost her son on 911).
Well, my landlord continued: "do you know that when you first moved in, everybody thought you were crazy"? I said "Crazy, who said I was crazy, and why was I crazy?". She said "oh I can't tell you but that's what they said "They also said there was something wrong with Frank because he wore a school uniform" I looked her dead in the eye (now this conversation took place way before Frank was 20 and moved away and we knew about Aspergers), I looked her dead in the eye and said "why on earth would they think something is wrong with my son because he wore a school uniform?" She countered with "oh, they didn't know where he went to school and because he didn't go to school here they said something must be wrong with him".
I then said calmly and much patience on my part: "Jennie, you know that when I first moved here, my son went to private Christian elementary school, and they require a uniform". She just said "oh, it's not me, it's the others who said that". Want to know what I then found out?
My landlord has been having a war with the 97 year old lady on the corner. They have both lived on my block for 50 years and can't stand each other. And because I'm a friendly sort who gets along with both of them, they were trying to pit one against the other.
After that, I couldn't stand either one of them but because one happens to be my landlord, I don't say a word. I'm polite, pay my rent, inquire as to their health but that's it. When I saw true colors, I saw true colors.
I can't be bothered to associate with people who think they have the right to tear each other apart.
So nuff said on that topic. the world would be a much better place if a little bit more kindness were thrown around.
P.S. good information by the way on the hypoglycemia. Learned much today.
By the way, my sugar was 107 this a.m. YIPEE. Toes are not bothering me either. let's hope they stay that way.
11-17-2006, 11:28 AM
you feel. I don't actually do this, but mentally I think about sending them a 'Mass Card' to pray for their souls. It's a satisfying thought, even tho just a thought.
HUGS! - j
11-17-2006, 12:09 PM
this is what I think we should all do.
Make up little index cards, and on them have typed something such as this:
'THANKS FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS, BUT I THINK YOU ARE FULL OF SH#T!!!
NOW GO AND TAKE A GOOD LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR. LIKE WHAT YOU SEE???? REALLY??? I WONDER WHY???
I will never have the audacity to do this, but oh, how I wish!!!!!
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