Isnt this Jl's new thing?

[KTM5665]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14783327/

[Curious]

it's something he does. a link to his profile was posted here.

[KTM5665]

:eek: :eek: well.....:eek: :eek: hummmmm.

[dorry]

Second Life suffers security breach
All 650,000 users are being required to request a new password

Updated: 30 minutes ago


Linden Lab, the San Francisco-based company behind the Second Life site, said in a letter to its 650,000 users this weekend that its customer database, including names, addresses, passwords and some credit card data, had been compromised.



yikes! that's bad.

[Wittesea]

I thought I read somewhere that JL worked at Linden Labs, or works for Linden Labs, or something like that....

[Curious]

you might be right wittesea

http://zero.hastypastry.net/pathfinder/

[wannabe]

I don't know almost anything about this Second Life, but it seems really strange to me.

Does anyone else think it's just plain weird? Why would adults spend MONEY to buy fake land, fake clothes, fake things for a fake person on Second Life? I understand if you were a kid "play acting" (although this would probably be kind of an expensive past-time), but for adults?

I don't understand the draw of people actually wanting to spend money on fake things. Maybe the land transactions ect might be analogous to playing the stock market or something, betting that the value for a fake piece of land would go up (like monopoly meybbe?), but in Second Life, what are market forces beyond interest in the Second Life fake world itself? Seems like a risky investment based on just interest in a fake world that you have no control over how its run, ect.

Is it just me or do others just find it really weird that this is an actual huge virtual community with a lot of real-life money being used to fund fake stuff on it? Can anyone else me understand the "pull" of a fake community like this? I was never one to play with dolls... maybe that's it. :o

[Curious]

especially when you can get "toys" for free. :D

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/8ccb380a3d9c20213544f.jpg

[KTM5665]

I only beheaded my brothers GI Joes for fun...real life fun. And...that's becasue he tried flushing my barbie collection down the sewer one day. Nice.Prolly explains a whole lot!

[Username]

Second Life started as a way for people with social disorders, such as Aspergers, a form of Autism, to interact with the outside world. These people learn valuable life skills by role playing and fine tuning their skills in an attempt to integrate into "real" society. It has evolved just as everything else in this world evolves in a nano-second. There are many people that live their lives behind closed doors because they just don't fit in for what ever reason. This has been a God send for them. Many others just like to play the game, it's no different than Sims or any other reality based interactive game.

John Lester is actually closer to a genius than many people recognize.

Linda

[Thelma]

you really are right on target there

[Username]

you really are right on target there


I don't think people really understand the magnitude of what JL has created with BT and Second Life. I know they are resenting him for not taking care of BT. Even if it continues under a new name and new supervision, it will still be JL that gave life to the concept of connecting people from their homes to others around the globe with like medical needs. Second Life is just an extension of what he started.

[lisa6wks]

I agree with you Linda and Thelma. Second Life and BT have been a godsend for many people.

Lisa

[wannabe]

I understand that Second Life may be therapeutic for people with social disorders. Are they being charged for this "therapy" and are the Second Life producers profiting off of the need of those with social disorders for this type of interaction? Were the forums used as a vehicle for finding paying individuals with social disorders? Or as a means to market this to others, by showing its success with those with social disorders?

Username, I'm not accusing, I'm just asking because I honestly know next to nothing about this and I really don't understand people, particularly healthy adults, buying and selling things like they would in real life, but in fantasy-land where you may not have any after market to sell off what you paid real money for because it's not real and people might get bored with this "game". I get that our society runs on similar quirks, like using money as a symbol of value to buy things. This just seems even stranger since you don't even get anything tangible for your real money. I want to understand though.

I really don't understand paying good money to buy fake things in a fake place. Maybe that's because I'm not a genius :o .

[Snoopy]

I really don't understand paying good money to buy fake things in a fake place. Maybe that's because I'm not a genius :o .

LOL....I guess I'm not a genius either because that was my thought:p

[dorry]

i thought it was free to join?

[wannabe]

i thought it was free to join?

I was just going by the article that was first posted. It may be free to join but it sounded like participation could be quite costly.

Second Life is a three-dimensional software world on the Web inhabited by animated characters that users design for themselves to interact with other participants. Users buy and sell virtual land and build businesses with currency called "Linden Dollars," which can be exchanged for real currency.

Blurring the line between a multiplayer game and an online business, the popularity of the site has spurred Fortune 500 corporations such as Coca-Cola Co. and Wells Fargo & Co., along with architects, authors, and musicians to erect virtual outposts of their organizations or personas.

Retailer American Apparel has created a business to sell clothing for the Second Life avatars users create to represent themselves inside the online world. Musicians such as Duran Duran and Suzanne Vega have held concerts inside Second Life.

[Curious]

have you looked at the web site? something must cost real money. there are gift certificates for sale. the news article says that credit card info might have been gotten.

i think creating a virtual world for the groups jk did was great. ( asbargers....) but that isn't what second life is all about. the virtual people can really do what WHATEVER you want them to.:eek: fine for adults who are into that type of thing. i don't remember reading that second life STARTED out as way to help people. ( as username stated ) jl said he joined them in 2005. if there is info stating it was, please correct me.

[Chemar]

John Lester did an amazing thing by forming BrainTalk Communities, and he is a brilliant and talented person too. That is an undisputed fact.

However, for the past two months thousands of people who desperately NEED BrainTalk have had no access to it, and I ache to think just what impact that has had on many many lives!

The scant updates and continued blank pages must be causing untold stress to numerous people whose health really cant handle it, and the handful of us who have found our way here are totally unaware of the true numbers out there, members and lurkers, who are severely disadvantaged by the loss of those forums.

For a "computer genius" like JL to have allowed it to progress this far is beyond my comprehension

I just wish there was a way to be able to notify all those hurting people that BT2 is here.

[Wittesea]

From what I remember from my reading....

Second Life did not start out as a way to help those with social disorders. It started out as an online game, a fantasy place. Then John Lester started playing the game....

After playing and getting involved in it, he then thought it would be a good way for those with Aspergers/Autism to interact with others. That is when there was an announcement made at BT asking for people personally affected by aspergers/autism.

He then created Brigadoon - an island of land within Second Life as a virtual place for people with social disorders.

Somewhere along the line, he got hired to work for Linden Labs -- but I believe he got hired after he started playing it and after he created the brigadoon island - but I could be wrong on the timing of that one.

The majority of people who play Second Life do not have an social problems. They are average computer users who like interactive online communities or game playing or whatever you want to call it - and they pay a monthly fee to subscribe to the service (that's in addition to any money they 'pay' IN the game to buy things like virtual clothing).


As for why people like to play these virtual games and pay real money for virtual clothing... I'm as mystified as the next person. I don't get it either. But to each his own, everyone enjoys different types of amusement.

[dorry]

I was just going by the article that was first posted. It may be free to join but it sounded like participation could be quite costly.

Retailer American Apparel has created a business to sell clothing for the Second Life avatars users create to represent themselves inside the online world.


:eek: :eek: omg that's pretty nutty. So it's a commercial enterprise that JL got involved with and recuited Asperger Syndrome patients? Did he donate BT funds to create his island or did the patients have to pay?

Regardless, JL did many good things in the past and hopefully he's happy and gratified by his new job. With BT still AWOL, I think it's pretty clear that he has moved on. JL KNEW what a life line BT was to it's members. Something obviously changed. 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, is understandable. 2 months? no excuse.

I agree, a link to this place would be helpful to scattered members. I never would have found it, if I hadn't gotten an email.


I still don't understand their monetary exchange >>


SL Currency Exchange - How to Buy
Return to the SL Currency Exchange


SL Exchange Help -> SL Currency Exchange -> How to Buy



To Buy Lindens:

Deposit USD into your account by going to your "My Funds Page" and selecting the Deposit link for USD. Complete that process, as you are prompted, and you're all set.

Click the Buy link.

Type in how many Lindens you wish to buy (L$100 Minimum).

Select how much you want to pay for them. This can be done three ways.

Select the best price you can purchase Lindens for at the moment. No math needed! This is the quickest way to buy Lindens.
Specify how many Lindens you want to purchase for each $1.00 USD.
Specify how much you are willing to pay per 1000 Lindens.


Click the "Place Order" button to place your order.

Confirm your purchase.

You should get an Info pop-up telling you your order was successfully placed, and then taken to your "My Orders" page where you can view your orders.

[stevem53]

From what I gather, John and mods of BT1 ARE aware of this place. I believe that DocJohn contacted John and that Mod#4 and others in admin are aware of this place. Zombieslayer might be able to say whether he's directly informed them of this site.

So certainly someone there could have updated the BT1 message to include a link to here if they wanted to help BT members find their way here. I'm sure members of BT1 are still clicking on the link to BT1 to see if it's up and running, so updating that message to include a link to here would assist BT members find their way here.

I hope they might consider doing that if they see this suggestion.

I'll be willing to bet that they not only know about this place but post here as well

[ZombieSlayer]

Since I was mentioned here I shall pipe up :D

I did tell David H about these forums and he said he already knew. I don't remember when I told him about them...but it was at least a week or two after I signed up.

I wanted him to come here and read some of the excellent ideas that were brought up. I haven't actually asked him if Mr. Lester knows about these forums...but I don't see how he couldn't.

Now about Second Life.

Wittesea you are correct about when Mr. Lester joined up with Second Life as an employee. It was after he created the Brigadoon island and had been there for awhile.

It is completely free to join. I've been playing in Second Life for at least a year now and haven't spent a dime.

As for why "healthy adults" pay for fake land and whatnot....I don't know.

[Bobbi]

I can't address most of what is posted in this thread. First: I've not read each post thoroughly enough to think I'm okay to do so.

But, an aspect of this thread I can address relates to the creation and participation in Brigadoon and as someone whom has been dx'd with AS (Asperger's Syndrome).

It's sorta like I'm sitting here asking myself: Why can't people understand? But, I get it. It's akin to trying to relay how it feels to have allergies to someone whom has never felt the ill-effects.

I've layed low during so much of the discussions about BT during its downtime. What's been important is that I know how I feel about BT and what it has meant to me.

When it comes to Brigadoon and SL (SecondLife), I'm gonna say: AS is much more than just a social disorder. As an adult I was dx'd. I had ample time to "acclimate" to queues - signals or subtle things people did. Smile when others speak, laugh when I didn't get the "punch lines" of jokes (and mostly ones that seemed to drag on for an eternity), etc. I also learned that people think that if one cannot look another in the eyes, some take that as a sign of "lying." But... did those same people whom suggest folks are lying ever stop to think about how Asperger's adversely affects the people living with it? Non-direct eye contact does not make all liars. It could be that the discomfort level is so unbearable that one just cannot do it. The work-around for people with AS? There are several, but... looking at the bridge of another's nose kinda helps :).

What does SL do? How does it help? Why would anyone participate?

It afforded me a level ground: Engaging with people who understand Asperger's and without being ostracized as a result. It is avatars, symbolizing living beings, that interact on a social level. People, and there are real people behind each AV created, are not being judged based on the same superficial things as in RL (real life). Because it is an interactive medium, people feel "heard." There is just so much negativity in life, and, quite frankly, I've not felt nearly the same level while participating in SL. An avatar is skin. And... SL is more than "skin" deep.

As it was/is/remains: So many people fear being "Labelled." I get why. I was dx'd and that was a good day in my life. No longer were doctors trying to medicate away something and take away what has been a staple of my life and my living. Some know Asperger's as a "Geek" syndrome. Whatever anyone wants to call it, fine by me... as long as the stigma is lifted - even gradually.

I posted a plethora of links in the Autism Forum (here) about adult AS. I somehow doubt many have visited the sites. It's clear.

[wannabe]

Thanks for the great explanation and info Bobbi. I really appreciate you educating us about this. I appreciate everyone filling in a little piece of this mysterious virtual world for me.

I haven't read the links in the forum as I didn't know they were there. I will now though. I did think I could understand a bit how this virtual environment could add an important social dimension for those with AS or autism, my questions arose from people who do not suffer from these conditions and why anyone would spend real money on virtual "things" with no stable after market. I can't quite grasp that. And I guess I had a worry that those with social difficulties might be taken advantage of by others trying to sell them virtual things that may not be 'worth' anything and couldn't be sold again. My questions are truly out of ignorance, but sincere interest to learn so I hope if I put my foot in my mouth you understand that it was unintentional. I am sincere and not judging, just not understanding a new concept.

Has anyone at Second Life who is a member of BT been able to discuss this forum issue with JL? Is that a way that people have been able to reach him, in this virtual world?

I think I understand how a virtual world could connect people with AS or autism in a way that the real world was unable to facilitate. I would hope though that a virtual world wouldn't come to REPLACE efforts for those with AS or autism from working to develop as much potential as exists for real world live contact. I just am not sure cyberworlds can be substituted for some of those intangible aspects of human contact that are so important to living. But I'm not an expert, maybe that's not true. I plead my ignorance here but will read more to learn more. Thanks to those who are enlightening me.

[Username]

I think Bobbi and a few others explained it pretty well. I had the sequences of origin switched around, but none the less it still helps many, many people. Like Bobbi said, unless you have Aspergers and use Brigadoon, which is within Second Life, you will more than likely not get it and not want to get it. No matter how we try to explain it to you.

As for the credit cards - Many internet sites require a credit card for identification purposes when you register. It keeps track of the users and also provides a way of finding someone should things get ugly. And sometimes it does, people go out of the game and lines blurr. SL may charge for "upgrades" in the game, I don't know about that. The concept of paying real money for nothing was created with the advancement of technology. A lot of people pay something for nothing. Subscriptions to websites for one. So why is the idea of paying a membership fee for an online "game" so hard to understand? Somebody has to pay for the upkeep and maintenance and possibly make a living while they're doing it. Capitalism at it's finest. But I don't think (again, I don't know for sure) that people are paying huge chunks of real cash for make believe clothing. Think of it as buying more pieces for their Monopoly game or more items for Dungeons and Dragons.

Again, the speed of criticism for something people know nothing about continues to amaze me.

Wittesea, I liked the way you asked your questions without criticizing. That's the way to do it!

Let the crucifiction continue! Did anyone see the sunrise this morning? I didn't, so it must not be there anymore.



Linda

[KTM5665]

Im not so sure that people are crucifiying...just asking questions. that's normal.

what ISNT normal...are feelings of abandonment, being left in a lurch, predujice, favoritism...and all the other negativity shown towards some members from the old Bt. It will take time for peoples feelings of trust to regain themselves, if ever...I dont think the problem stems "directly" from Jl, as it does his modsquad...

[Wittesea]

It is completely free to join. I've been playing in Second Life for at least a year now and haven't spent a dime.


Oh, I didn't realize that had changed. I remember when JL first started playing SL (before Brigadoon and before he worked there) he put a link in the forums inviting BT people to join.... I'm not interested in online gaming, but by husband like gaming and so he checked SL out. I remember that it was free to join, free for a month, but then after that you had to pay to play - I think it was about $13 a month.

So that's why I assumed there was still a monthly fee involved.... I'm now guessing that the fee went away now that SL money is interchangable with real life money -- when my husband played for 2 weeks the money system in the game had nothing to do with real money.

[Jane]

Many thanks to Bobbi and others who have given a partial explanation of Brigadoon. I say "paritally" only because they do not have the time to give it's hisory (particulary as it relates to SL) in it's entirety. As Bobbi stated, Brigadoon provides a level playing field for those with AS.

A web search on Brigadoon would be wise in opposition to opinions of those who speak based on second, third and fourth hand information. Take some time, research the community and read the blogs from residents of the island (and their parents/loved ones). It will be time well spent.

Best wishes to one and all.......Jane

[Bobbi]

Hi, Wannabe (and all) :).

I shared some of the same concerns or thoughts that you relayed after joining SL. In truth, though, SL hasn't come to replace RL efforts or interactions.

With improved/increased ability to socialize and communicate with others in the virtual world, it also adds to confidence when in RL. Maybe, in part, it's attributed to the fact that in, i.e., SL, the foundation for communication starts with the premise that it really does take two to have any type relationship and it is quite obvious - in SL - when it's active or passive. The latter doesn't lend itself to SL. The "skills" attained and/or bolstered translate to RL ;).

So, I think, a more concise way of looking at it: SL, as far as I understand (from the inside) is that it augments RL.

In addition to Brigadoon, SL has also been useful for stroke survivors; there is another group in SL that was started by a BT member and it's entitled ShockProof :).

[Bobbi]

I did pay to join SL; it was at a time when Linden Labs was still charging for a Basic Membership. It was a one-time fee, and it was not too price-y to join :D. The fee is what enables L. Labs to employ people and make improvements ;).

There are some people whom make quite a good "living" from SL. That's a good thing, since they're applying their abilities and creativity in ways that also suit their personalities and so on.

The only features I find missing from SL, which I think could make it better are:

- Voice Activation (for those of us with mobility limitations)
- A desktop module (for working off-line)

:D

[wannabe]

If it's considered a "game" for those that use SL for purely enjoyment purposes, what's the goal? What do you work towards? Is it to build your assets like monopoly then? How do you "win" or "lose" then? What do you "do" there?

Bobbi, that makes sense, how it could really augment RL exchanges too. Is it like a forum then (a discussion place), only with more virtual aspects to how you interact, like adding more dimensions to the exchange by giving you avatars and RL characteristics whereas a forum is quite flat in that you're only a name and words, this adds more substance to "who" you become in the virtual world? What's the 'purpose' to it for those just gaming?

I guess I wouldn't pay for membership to a forum either. :o And I sure didn't think I was "crucifying" anyone. ouch.

[Chemar]

Let the crucifiction continue! Did anyone see the sunrise this morning? I didn't, so it must not be there anymore.



Linda


Yikes! Arent you bein' a bit harsh there toward people who are simply asking for information and making comments in an open discussion forum (never mind the dog poop comment in your edit message!!!)

as to my comments, I intentionally said NOTHING about Second Life or anything related to it as I know nothing firsthand about it.

However, having been at BT for a loooong time, I made my comments based on what I did know firsthand, and that is that for two months the forums at BT have been down and it surprises me that someone of JLs computer skills has not had at the least more frequent updates, nevermind not gotten those boards or a new one up and running faster.
I also know firsthand that this has caused distress and health deterioration for some people who really depend on BT, and I feel pretty sure that there are countless more like them who have not yet found or been told about this board.
I am also puzzled that "politics" would have stood in the way ( I assume) of the update message that was last on BT (what now...2 weeks ago last?) as it didnt point people here as a temporary refuge.

Crucifying ? Most certainly not.
Confused and disappointed ? You bet!

[Jane]

Confusing? Disappointing?? Let me add discouraging.

On the other hand since I am not a board member of BT., I don't personally know what has been going on since the board was established. With that in mind, I will keep my guesstimations to myself.

Jane

[Username]

People (and without going back I can't say who) by their comments leave an undertone of exactly what they mean with their questions. I suppose I was adding that to all the other comments I've been reading about JL. I know he has disappointed many people, but come on, he's gotten really beat up over BT. He doesn't owe anybody anything. Because he started something he doesn't have to commit to that project the rest of his life. Why so many people feel that he owes them something, is beyond my comprehension. It was great while it lasted (and it may still come back) but it's season may be over. It seems like all good he has done for people, is being shadowed by the fact he's not doing it right now. And I don't feel he deserves that.

[Curious]

i think since he asked and got donations for a new server, he should be held accountable. thaty board was also set up with google ads to generate income.

i agree it's season may be over. but where (not to mention how much) did the money go? don't non-profit organizations have to report p&l statement?

i feel the same as chemar. are the old members of bt getting the support and help they need?

i don't think anyone here has crucifed jl.

[Jane]

People (and without going back I can't say who) by their comments leave an undertone of exactly what they mean with their questions. I suppose I was adding that to all the other comments I've been reading about JL. I know he has disappointed many people, but come on, he's gotten really beat up over BT. He doesn't owe anybody anything. Because he started something he doesn't have to commit to that project the rest of his life. Why so many people feel that he owes them something, is beyond my comprehension. It was great while it lasted (and it may still come back) but it's season may be over. It seems like all good he has done for people, is being shadowed by the fact he's not doing it right now. And I don't feel he deserves that.

We are in agreement except that we don't really know if this has been a matter of lack of interest or being bound by a board with a differing vision. BT stopped being a one man show when it became a not for profit.

If one checks early posts relative to Brigadoon, it was organized through BT and designated donations could be made to it through BT. As in most not for profits, funds can be designated to specific projects. Perfectly legal and a good thing. This allows those who are interested in a given project to help fund it and reduce the amount needed from the general fund.
Jane

[Username]

I just went back and re-read everything. I admit the undertones weren't the same as they were when I was reading them half asleep at 4:00 in the morning. So, I'll take that much back. But, in combination with the other threads, not just this one, I still believe JL has taken an unfair beating.

He supported BT for a very long time with his own funds. I certainly agree that would never justify taking money from donations and then not funding the site. But, I also believe that has not been proved yet. As a matter of fact, nobody knows what the heck is going on. He may very well be working on it. Innocent until proven guilty. It's still America. (At least where the site is homed!) I think the only thing he's guilty of is not keep updates updated. Period. But, that's only my opinion, which I'm entitled to, along with everyone else's opinion, which they are also entitled to. I think people just need to be more cautious before all the facts are in.

I won't say anymore. I've stopped posting on the other topics as well.

Linda

Edited: I think what happened here on the topic of SL, was once people saw that real money was being made from people buying "imaginary things", they lumped it together with the fact that people donated money for BT and now nothing. Possibly their initial thought was that JL was being less than admirable. And that it what I reacted to.

[Wittesea]

I agree that JL owes us nothing....

However, doesn't he have a moral responsibility to at least try? I say that because over the years at BrainTalk, as it went though changes (leaving MGH, becoming a non-profit) and as John went through changes in his life (also leaving MGH and getting a new job) -- through all that the messages and posts from John all support the fact that he cared about BT, that he would continue to maintain BT, that he would never abandon BT, etc...

That was always the tone and message of his posts during every change - in BT itself, or in his own life.

So, I believe a lot of people are disappointed over the lack of communication from him recently because all of his previous statements regarding the forum were always about how he will always "be there" for BT and the people who use it.

And then the forum crashed, he was nowhere to be found, and there was no message and no communication. After years and years of promises to always "be there" to support BT, all of a sudden he wasn't there anymore.

Sure, technically he owes us nothing at all. Legally he owes us nothing at all. But morally he should have done better because that's what he promised over and over again.

[Thelma]

I guess I am one of those who have been very vocal about how I feel personally about Braintalk at least the five people who have reported on me think I have been by far too vocal. Wish they would have asked me for an explanation instead.

But in any regard there is not much to know really. John has been up front with us about his involvement with second City from the beginning although I didn't think it was anythilng but childish at the beginning I have now seen that it can be a great asset for those who psychologically need it and those who physically have no other way to put their dreams of moving into action.

Although it was not originally intended for Johns purpose I believe he had a brainstorm when he first began to build on his idea for those sites.

Whether they succeed or fail they were and are worth the cost of supporting them.

Take them in the name of research and look at them.

My problem lies in the lack of information he has given out to the members who have stuck by him for so many years. I can't believe the coldness of his response to their concerns.

Sure he has been travelling but he did before and always kept in touch as he carries a very good computer with him.

When he first put on the message at Braintalk it was not him but David Hosobuchi who put it on. John immediately took it off and put his own on. He has changed it only once since he put it in on my birthday aug 24.xxxx lol

So then David can do it as well. Then there has to be a problem bigger than what we are assuming going on behind the scene. The chat moderator said he would have it back last weekend and it did not appear. John has said the chats would have to be closed and the site as well for the repairs to happen. .

I personally sent him an email at his work to ask if it were a money problem and if so let me know and got no reply.

First time on a money subject no reply has come. Although I must admit I have only done it twice.

So there we are in the dark and not a thing we can say nor do till he himself desires to once again talk to us.

I have in a sense picked up all of the straws and they have led me nowhere.

It has been 7 years he has laboured over the site and for it to end like this or even have such an event as this blacken it's name is really sad.

He is in Sommerville and has been seen there yet this lack of caring remains.

This has led me to think about what has happened at Linden Labs and wonder if it has effected other sites perhaps Braintalk.

What ever it is time to stop wondering.

Take care all Thelma

[Alffe]

I wonder if Thelma knows that it's impossible for me to stop wondering....:D (((Thelma)))

[Bobbi]

If it's considered a "game" for those that use SL for purely enjoyment purposes, what's the goal? What do you work towards? Is it to build your assets like monopoly then? How do you "win" or "lose" then? What do you "do" there?

Bobbi, that makes sense, how it could really augment RL exchanges too. Is it like a forum then (a discussion place), only with more virtual aspects to how you interact, like adding more dimensions to the exchange by giving you avatars and RL characteristics whereas a forum is quite flat in that you're only a name and words, this adds more substance to "who" you become in the virtual world? What's the 'purpose' to it for those just gaming?

I guess I wouldn't pay for membership to a forum either. :o And I sure didn't think I was "crucifying" anyone. ouch.

Good questions, Wannabe :). I can't really answer for others (and there are so many thousands of SL members). There is another Isle, in SL, and it's by and for people with Cerebral Palsy (Live2Give); another Isle was founded by Support for Healing. Aside from health-related aspects and use of SL, some, I do know, use it as a type of release valve (winding down from stress - of RL work; some are doctors and interns) and the enjoyment of creating - items either given away or sold. Too, there are others who participate and offer "classes" and some who sell things and give monies raised to various charities.

It's not really a win/lose 3D "world," but one that is built on synchronous interaction and what individual members wish to use it for and make of it :). Because it is live-time interaction, it's also a dynamic medium that ever-evolves.

So, I suppose, it all depends on whom is asked, since there are myriad reasons people have joined SL.

P.S.: I'm on vacation right now (and want to head south along the coast today); other than that, if I had more time, I'd look for a few links that could probably explain better than I've done. I may have more time tomorrow. But, for now, the beach awaits my arrival. Ohhh, sure it does :).

[JoJo6]

aaaahhhh my favorite dancing partner:) I do not have any dates before me, but if my memory serves me right it has not been THAT long since BT became non-profit! John made a big todo about it and we all congratulated John, BT and everybody else that felt a part of the "program".

I was thinking it actually came about shortly after the "big money drive" for the server and other things. I could be wrong, but nevertheless it was not far in between and it has not been a long time.
I agree with what Thelma, Chemar and Curious and several others said. JohnLester does not"owe" us his time or money or anything except to be treated with some respect. He may be a genius, he is very smart, he used to act like a human being and he DEMANDED we respect his Moderators and David H.just because HE said so.

there is much here that does not meet the eye. Also many people that depended on BT as their life line, very ill people. For 2 months if they have tried to log into BT y'all know what they got. I worry for these people because I talk with them and sometimes I speak on the phone to some of them.
It was sad to see them send JL money for a server when they hardly had food to eat, couldn't afford their meds. etc.

Many people mentioned that he never even gave a thank you. I guess we just want to be treated like human beings too. I think that is where he has failed him. I know members sent him money off and on a long time, which is great and I don't doubt he put his own money in.

He needs to remember his humble beginnings. He may be a genius, but he could not have built his impire without the people, us, the members!! JL didn't do it ALL by himself.

[Username]

If it comes to be that JL walked with the money, I will be in line with everyone else holding a stone to throw at him.


Added: Like I said though, that's yet to be proven.

[DocJohn]

Over 2 months now. The message has been down now for more than a few days. No update, no word to the thousands of people who depended upon the community. Some on a daily basis.

At this point, I guess we should stop holding our breaths waiting for its return and just get on with life and building this community.

It's sad, but I also think we shouldn't read too much into a person's motives or behaviors without them being here to defend themselves. Instead let's focus on the positive and what can be built here.

John

[JoJo6]

You are right DocJohn. I see the beginnings of something very good for all that care to be a part of. thank you for reminding us of our goal as to helping others, share their happy moments, share their sadness, but encouraging all the time, to all!! I'm going to work on a list of people we left behind and see if I can help at least some find their way here.

Can't thank you enough, DocJohn. thanks to all the good people that have helped in ever way thats needed. take care, Jo

[The Crystal Cave]

If it comes to be that JL walked with the money, I will be in line with everyone else holding a stone to throw at him.

Added: Like I said though, that's yet to be proven.

The server saga and dollar stuff is here:
http://zero.hastypastry.net/forums/

Truly, I don’t know a single person who could "walk" for very long on $3,000. Lordy, I’d put it in a piggy bank and give it to him in a heartbeat. I'm not a happy camper about being let down and disrespected, but O think questioning the man's integrity is over the top.

Dr. Grohol, that was a pretty crummy thing to do, putting up a rational, empathic message just before I hit reply to post my diatribe. You popped the puff right out of it. I just hate it when that happens. :rolleyes:

Onward.

TCC

[anonymous_no_more]

Over 2 months now. The message has been down now for more than a few days. No update, no word to the thousands of people who depended upon the community. Some on a daily basis.

At this point, I guess we should stop holding our breaths waiting for its return and just get on with life and building this community.

It's sad, but I also think we shouldn't read too much into a person's motives or behaviors without them being here to defend themselves. Instead let's focus on the positive and what can be built here.

John

It is ironic that JL has now entered the domain of a person who takes funds and disappears, and is now the center of another "inquiry"...terribly, deeply ironic.

And the swarm of innuendo continues...some things never change.

Why not enjoy the day...utilize this new forum...and when/if BT reappears, let this JLester person account for everything. If it never comes back...hold on to the memories of those benefits that one once derived from it having been there. No one can make someone morally accountable.

Have we ever considered that something in this person's life may be keeping him from completing the task? Or, perhaps, that he has lost the desire? Or, that he HAD the desire to get BT back up, but came here, saw the silliness, and lost that desire? I could go on an on, and on with variations on a theme.

We can all agree that this isn't the desired state; we could go on and on as to the "why's of BT not being available, who has been let down, and the lack of communication" forever and ever. What does it solve, other than digging a deep whole that JLester may never be able to fully explain, resolve, or dig out of...time to move on.

I like Jo's idea of finding all the lost souls, and directing them here.

One problem solved.

[newbie]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14783327/

IF this is true. I hope John spends time in protecting peoples bank accounts and Identity rather than spending time worring about the selfishness posted here.

[stevem53]

Im afraid now that its blatently obvious that there is more to this that what meets the eye..Strange..real strange

[Thelma]

My thoughts are that this latest time out at Braintalk has to do with the trouble at Linden labs. He must be working to save his two sites there. They are connected to Braintalk in many ways. Perhaps he needs to keep Braintalk down until that is cleared up.

You know it could be a reason why he has kept the site down for so long.

The crash came in between the time they had a problem that must have alerted them and when they discovered what it was.

Maybe I got it............... maybe

[anonymous_no_more]

The old forum (pre-hasty pastry) was CONSTANTLY going offline for weeks at a time. Sometimes, John would post a note apologizing for the inconvenience, sometimes not. There was a span where he didn't post on braintalk at all for nearly a year.

If, as Anonymous_no_More suggested, JL "saw all this silliness and lost the desire", he still owes his members the courtesy of an explanation. Concern over the well-being of members who are wholly dependent on a forum for their outside contact is hardly silliness!

A little communication and honesty go a long way.

GL
The "silliness" is not aimed at those that expressed their feelings of loss of support, rather, the offering of all kinds of "reasons/innuendo" for the "whys" of JL's inability to communicate.

Again, as I stated before, no one can make anyone else "do the right thing" or "want to do the right thing". That we are not experiencing the "desired state" is a given.

Rather than lament what we cannot control, take action on those things that we can...

Getting support here, is a great start. Waiting for JL to either "dig out" and communicate (as he has clearly, deeply hurt so many) is perhaps not worth the emotional effort. But, that is just my own POV...and usually not one agreed with or upon...

[annie]

imagine how we are going to feel if it turns out that the reason he is not communicating is because he is in the hospital learning firsthand what we already know about having brain problems.

imagine how we are going to feel if the problem is that someone close to him is very ill and he is spending all his time taking care of them.

imagine how we are going to feel if we discover that the reason he has abandoned us is that something bad has happened to him.

maybe we should stop criticizing and blaming him and start praying for him.

maybe we should think about his needs for a change instead of demanding that he should take care of ours.

[ConsiderThis]

John Lester did an amazing thing by forming BrainTalk Communities, and he is a brilliant and talented person too. That is an undisputed fact.

However, for the past two months thousands of people who desperately NEED BrainTalk have had no access to it, and I ache to think just what impact that has had on many many lives!

The scant updates and continued blank pages must be causing untold stress to numerous people whose health really cant handle it, and the handful of us who have found our way here are totally unaware of the true numbers out there, members and lurkers, who are severely disadvantaged by the loss of those forums.

For a "computer genius" like JL to have allowed it to progress this far is beyond my comprehension

I just wish there was a way to be able to notify all those hurting people that BT2 is here.
That's what I think. (I wish we could let everyone know about BT2, and yes, JL is very bright.)

but equally, there were people who were banned who did not understand why, and were hurt, I mean really hurt by the loss of the only community to which they belonged.

That was not good. I mean really.

So, from my point of view, watching that happen and the pain, I think he's not new to allowing people to be hurt.

In terms of the game... maybe that's all BT was to him. Maybe Second Life is an advance for him from BT.

Also remember that when BT was new he got massive notority because it was used, Used, to study interaction between people with neurological problems. That's quite different than just thinking of a way to help people...

I don't think there's anything wrong with studies... but... becoming famous that way, within a particular community, that's a big payoff. I think BT had gotten as big as it could get... and I think it was having serious problems, with all the bannings. So I think the chances of big payoffs in the future were... limited.

I just don't think something that is really good would ban people who needed the community so much. (Yes, I got banned. But I wasn't as involved as some of the people who were banned, nor am I quite a seriously affected by my illness. So to me, I missed it, but not as much as my friends missed it.)

[ConsiderThis]

Yikes! Arent you bein' a bit harsh there toward people who are simply asking for information and making comments in an open discussion forum (never mind the dog poop comment in your edit message!!!)

as to my comments, I intentionally said NOTHING about Second Life or anything related to it as I know nothing firsthand about it.

However, having been at BT for a loooong time, I made my comments based on what I did know firsthand, and that is that for two months the forums at BT have been down and it surprises me that someone of JLs computer skills has not had at the least more frequent updates, nevermind not gotten those boards or a new one up and running faster.
I also know firsthand that this has caused distress and health deterioration for some people who really depend on BT, and I feel pretty sure that there are countless more like them who have not yet found or been told about this board.
I am also puzzled that "politics" would have stood in the way ( I assume) of the update message that was last on BT (what now...2 weeks ago last?) as it didnt point people here as a temporary refuge.

Crucifying ? Most certainly not.
Confused and disappointed ? You bet!

I wasn't there as long as you -- at first, after being banned, I was going to do a forum... but then I thought that if one like BT with someone like JL running it could crash, then how could I keep one going, and I didn't want people to come to trust it and then be let down.

I had gotten the impression that crashing was very likely.

But... there are boards like the pbs one which have a lot of members and forums and posts, and they don't crash...

Or, I suppose it's possible that they simply haven't crashed while I've been around. I've only been there a couple years.

Nerve diseases are so different from measles, mumps, the kind of disease we encounter when we are kids.

I had tetanus, and now when I get stressed I have just horrible problems. I always feel as if the problems are with my muscles, but no, it's the nerves. My nerves were damaged and now stress really sets me back.

So I know how the loss of their community must have affected people for whom that was their major contact with others. To me, not posting updates (JL) and not suggesting places for people to go in the alternative, suggest something other than an altruistic intent.

[ConsiderThis]

imagine how we are going to feel if it turns out that the reason he is not communicating is because he is in the hospital learning firsthand what we already know about having brain problems.

imagine how we are going to feel if the problem is that someone close to him is very ill and he is spending all his time taking care of them.

imagine how we are going to feel if we discover that the reason he has abandoned us is that something bad has happened to him.

maybe we should stop criticizing and blaming him and start praying for him.

maybe we should think about his needs for a change instead of demanding that he should take care of ours.
Look, do you really imagine that any of these things could be true and he doesn't know anyone to make a post for him?

I was thinking, maybe I should get a break from having to feed my goldfish. I've had to think about their needs for so long. I think it's time they gave me a break. I want them to think about MY needs.

Is that reasonable?

[Bobbi]

User Name / Linda... Thanks... ((( for truly "getting it" ))). It means the world to me, personally, and I'm proud of you - for sharing how you felt, even when you read at 4 in the morn. :D.

As far as BT and L. Labs? I don't quite understand how folks come to the conclusion that something happening within L. Labs is connected with BT. L. Labs is where JL now works. (He has living expenses as do the rest of us :)). It's in the educational outreach area he works; I'm sure his job description spells it out far better than I have paraphrased, though.

As many in SL know, I've utilized much of my time (and creative abilities in SL) to raise donations for BT and also for Brigadoon. Do I think John "owes" me anything? No. Why so not? He offered an avenue that led me to deeper self-discovery. I know, not all feel or think as I do. That's okay too.

What's difficult for me is reading comments by people discussing SL whom are not members, and somehow wanting to link BT's down time to a situation that L. Labs has been honest about with its own members. Security - via SL - was compromised, and ... L. Labs got on it right away and took measures to seal off "holes" and advised its members of steps to also take. There is nothing nefarious about it.

It saddens me to think that there are members of BT whom might envision that others (also members) haven't taken efforts to "earn our keep" within SL as well.

[spacy stacy]

imagine how we are going to feel if it turns out that the reason he is not communicating is because he is in the hospital learning firsthand what we already know about having brain problems.

imagine how we are going to feel if the problem is that someone close to him is very ill and he is spending all his time taking care of them.

imagine how we are going to feel if we discover that the reason he has abandoned us is that something bad has happened to him.

maybe we should stop criticizing and blaming him and start praying for him.

maybe we should think about his needs for a change instead of demanding that he should take care of ours.

Annie-

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

I wish he would post only to know that he is OK. However, if there is something serious going on (and what is going on at his job is not trivial), I understand why he is not posting or updating. Any good friend should.

My true friends understand if I don't get back to them right away when something serious is happening in my life. They are still there for me when the dust clears and I can join them once again.

I hope all is going to be OK with JL. I hope that BT will find its way back again. It has helped me greatly and I don't want to lose the wealth of info there. JL made a place for me to go and be heard, helped and hugged. I hope that we can do the same for him. That is what friends are for.

Just my thoughts for today.

Stacy

[Username]

imagine how we are going to feel if it turns out that the reason he is not communicating is because he is in the hospital learning firsthand what we already know about having brain problems.

imagine how we are going to feel if the problem is that someone close to him is very ill and he is spending all his time taking care of them.

imagine how we are going to feel if we discover that the reason he has abandoned us is that something bad has happened to him.

maybe we should stop criticizing and blaming him and start praying for him.

maybe we should think about his needs for a change instead of demanding that he should take care of ours.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Username]

User Name / Linda... Thanks... ((( for truly "getting it" ))). It means the world to me, personally, and I'm proud of you - for sharing how you felt, even when you read at 4 in the morn. :D.

As far as BT and L. Labs? I don't quite understand how folks come to the conclusion that something happening within L. Labs is connected with BT. L. Labs is where JL now works. (He has living expenses as do the rest of us :)). It's in the educational outreach area he works; I'm sure his job description spells it out far better than I have paraphrased, though.

As many in SL know, I've utilized much of my time (and creative abilities in SL) to raise donations for BT and also for Brigadoon. Do I think John "owes" me anything? No. Why so not? He offered an avenue that led me to deeper self-discovery. I know, not all feel or think as I do. That's okay too.

What's difficult for me is reading comments by people discussing SL whom are not members, and somehow wanting to link BT's down time to a situation that L. Labs has been honest about with its own members. Security - via SL - was compromised, and ... L. Labs got on it right away and took measures to seal off "holes" and advised its members of steps to also take. There is nothing nefarious about it.

It saddens me to think that there are members of BT whom might envision that others (also members) haven't taken efforts to "earn our keep" within SL as well.

Bobbi you taught me a lot about Asbergers when they suspected my daughter might have it. I did a lot of research on it. I do know it's easier to understand something if take the time to learn about it. That applies to all aspects of our lives.

I really need to email you about something going on in my life and how much it keeps reminding me of you.

I love you Bobbi!!!!!!

Linda

I sent you that email.

[Chemar]

Over 2 months now. The message has been down now for more than a few days. No update, no word to the thousands of people who depended upon the community. Some on a daily basis.

At this point, I guess we should stop holding our breaths waiting for its return and just get on with life and building this community.

It's sad, but I also think we shouldn't read too much into a person's motives or behaviors without them being here to defend themselves. Instead let's focus on the positive and what can be built here.

John

Bravo!

Time to move on folks :)
Let's channel our energy into getting back to the vital function of caring and sharing here, and if and when BT returns, people will decide for themselves whether they feel more at home there, here or in both.

[lindylanka]

I too have been visiting BT for many years - and it has been important to me in terms of being able to have a good dialogue with people who KNOW how I feel because they are going through the same thing. The whole thing about peer support is that. Yes, John did a great thing in setting it all up for us, but I am very baffled by the strangeness that surrounds this whole thing. At the same time that BT sank, John was apparently on a lecture tour that included slideshows that featured BT and his role in developing it, as well as projects like Brigadoon, as part of Linden Labs community efforts.

Now I'm no technical expert, but it was plain to see from a link in another message on this thread that the equipment that JL bought was under warranty from Apple for THREE YEARS from april 05. And its only september 06.......... The hardware should be okay, the data maybe not, but to get things up and running again it should have been a simple matter of reinstalling the software on repaired or replaced equipment. It does not take months to do, the software is not hard to put in place. So there MUST be other reasons for it not happening. If BT was a "non-profit corporation operating as a public charity" as described on the hasypastry page with John's message to us then surely there is some liability there - or maybe those words don't actually mean anything............

I am not writing this to attack John in anyway, he has given a lot of people a great deal over the years. I am however questioning his way of dealing with the members of BT - it seems neither responsible or ethical to leave so many people, many of whom have had devastating health issues affect them and their families, in this kind of limbo. I would just request respectfully that he steps up to the podium and offer an explanation to 'his' members about what has happened, instead of leaving them in the dark. And to do it here, and on the BT page where that rather old message is.

At this stage it is about re-empowering the people who made up BT, it's not about John, or who is to blame, it is about re-connecting people with THEIR support system, because it was not all about John and the work he did in setting things up, but about a whole community of very real people. Forums like these may seem as though they are 'virtual' - in reality they are not, we are just using a virtual medium, if you doubt that look at the Brigadoon people, their REAL lives are improved, in fact it is a lot less virtual than watching TV......

John, if you come here, or you have anyone looking in on your behalf, please let us know what is happening, if it is to do with the security breaches at LL then let us know, if you no longer have the time to devote to BT then let us know, if it all grew too big and it is too much then let us know, and allow a good end to the work you have done. IF you ARE going to put it all to rights, then also LET US KNOW, but please don't continue to leave people in the dark. It is not right to leave people with severe health problems in the lurch, it goes against everything you have worked for, everything you write about. The people who came to BT often had a commonality - they had questions that the medical profession would not or could not answer. You gave them the means to ask those questions, and find out some of the answers themselves. Well, we have another question now. It would be kind if you gave us an answer. And whatever that is, you would have more respect for answering it than for remaining silent.

Lindy

[ConsiderThis]

Bravo!

Time to move on folks :)
Let's channel our energy into getting back to the vital function of caring and sharing here, and if and when BT returns, people will decide for themselves whether they feel more at home there, here or in both.

:) Good point. Well put. YES!

[dorry]

I have no bone to pick with JL, but if BT is the

largest online community for neurology self-help groups in the world. (from Brigadoon)

it is inexcusable for a 'tech' to get to it, whenever. Other than that, I have no interest in what JL does or doesn't do.

If I click on a dead link once, I'll try again. 2, 3, 4 times, yes. After that? A website down for 2 months is the kiss of death online.

BrainTalk Communities Incorporated
Misson and activities:
BrainTalk Communities Inc. currently uses online communities including forums, chatrooms, and virtual reality worlds to service people seeking support and/or information regarding neurological disorders.

Our non governmental, non-profit, organization works at the international level.

We consider ourselves as part of the international Independent Living and Disability Rights Movement.

Our organization is mainly run, controlled and represented by disabled people.

We have traineeships or volunteer positions that people with disabilities are welcome to apply for.

Our traineeships or volunteer positions are open to applicants from abroad.

Contact us:
Contact person: David Hosobuchi
Email: dhosobuchi@gmail.com
Home page: http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/

This entry added: Wednesday 19th October 2005. (record #774) Changed: Tuesday 3rd January 2006. Link checked Monday 11th September 2006.

[ConsiderThis]

I have no bone to pick with JL, but if BT is the

(from Brigadoon)

it is inexcusable for a 'tech' to get to it, whenever. Other than that, I have no interest in what JL does or doesn't do.

If I click on a dead link once, I'll try again. 2, 3, 4 times, yes. After that? A website down for 2 months is the kiss of death online.

(((((((Dorry))))))))

[Curious]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/bt.jpg

if you look at all the emotions that have been posted...i'd say that enough "grief" has been spent on bt. shock, sadness, loneliness, anger, remorse, sympathy, empathy...the list goes on and on. time to put it to rest. life goes on.

[ConsiderThis]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/bt.jpg

if you look at all the emotions that have been posted...i'd say that enough "grief" has been spent on bt. shock, sadness, loneliness, anger, remorse, sympathy, empathy...the list goes on and on. time to put it to rest. life goes on.
lol
you crack me up!!!!!!

[Curious]

oh...don't forget.....after most "funerals" there is a get together with food.

i have the brownies and hazelnut coffee. :p

[Curious]

;) thought you might like it consider this.

[ConsiderThis]

oh...don't forget.....after most "funerals" there is a get together with food.

i have the brownies and hazelnut coffee. :p

Oh, I LOVE Hazelnut coffee!!!!!

I'll bring coffee cake, Coffee Cake was big in my Polish family :)

[ConsiderThis]

;) thought you might like it consider this.
Psychic much?????

((((((((Curious))))))))))

[Curious]

Psychic much?????

((((((((Curious))))))))))

:D lots actually.

[ConsiderThis]

:D lots actually.

Ohhhhhh. Ohhhhhh.

Neat! (I trust it's not a worrying thing for you.)

[KTM5665]

nifty~ Someone save me a seat and some choloate anything. I'll be good!

[ConsiderThis]

nifty~ Someone save me a seat and some choloate anything. I'll be good!

(((((((((((KTM5665)))))))))))

[Curious]

me thinks we will have room enough for everyone! and of course i'll save you some choccy!!

[dorry]

silly monkey!! haha I love it.

[Curious]

::::bows to dorry::::

i had a good teacher. :p