ZombieSlayer's rant...

[ZombieSlayer]

//Rant on to all folks that fit it....

I'm tired of people making assumptions and jumping to conclusions and trying to mislead people about Mr. Lester and BrainTalk. Some of the stuff said here at Braintalk2 could be construed as libel.

None of you (nor I for that matter) have any proof of any wrong doing, with the exception of his lack of communication and participation. I find this (lack of communication) very disturbing, highly offensive, quite rude, and definately not at all like the Mr. Lester I thought I knew.

So how about you find (and post) some facts before making statements that may or may not be true? Or at the very least take the easy way out and say it's your opinion. That way people won't think what you say is fact.

//Rant off

As for the comments regarding the moderators....I have not had to deal with any of them so I can't say anything about them other than this....

Being a moderator of a community with 50K+ members is not an easy job. Especially when the community deals with health issues. While actions the moderators take may seem uncalled for, they are more often than not justified. Being members at BrainTalk in particular, we will not be privy (most of the time) to the why's of the moderators actions.

[dorry]

lol everything I say is my opinion ZS.

I do think JL has sufficiently been removed from his pedestal and it's time to put that puppy to rest.

[paula_w]

Zombieslayer,

I like that: rant on/ rant off - can I use it? Reminds me of the clapper commercials that turned lamps on and off.

Communication is the problem, you are right. And distance from the "location" - may make BT1 seem not as significant anymore. I didn't know that John had moved until I joined BT2.

Lack of communication leads to speculation. While it's not right to falsely accuse, why the heck does John not respond and just end all this guessing?

I know you don't have an answer, just sharing your befuddlement [if that's a word].

paula

[dorry]

Zombieslayer,

I like that: rant on/ rant off - can I use it? Reminds me of the clapper commercials that turned lamps on and off.


haha and it's so much easier on the eyes than CAP BLASTERS :D

[ConsiderThis]

Yeah and there were secret prisons to torture the captives who might be terrorists.

It's all good.

Or is it?

[Curious]

lol everything I say is my opinion ZS.

I do think JL has sufficiently been removed from his pedestal and it's time to put that puppy to rest.

i wonder how many funerals it will take?

speaking of puppies....i didn't know you had a boxer? my grandpuppy is a boxer. this is his 1 yr old picture taken a few weeks ago.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/munson-3.jpg

i agree with you zs. i think enough has been said in all the old posts. time to let bt1 go from this board. IF it does come back...good luck to it and it's members. :D i'm sorry you had such posts to come back to after not feeling well. but there are some good funny ones scattered around. and many many helpful supportive ones.

[ConsiderThis]

I love your dog and your photography!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is such a good picture I wondered for awhile if it was an illustration in a book, or for some ... I don't know... some web site or something.

Well, time to go make more coffee. :)

ie moving on rather than talking about that old forum. :)

[Chemar]

i agree with you zs. i think enough has been said in all the old posts. time to let bt1 go from this board. IF it does come back...good luck to it and it's members. :D
i'm sorry you had such posts to come back to after not feeling well. but there are some good funny ones scattered around. and many many helpful supportive ones.


YES!

there is quite enough hurt going round by everything related to BT crashing and the silence etc etc etc.
let's not perpetuate the hurt here!

[dorry]

speaking of puppies....i didn't know you had a boxer? my grandpuppy is a boxer. this is his 1 yr old picture taken a few weeks ago.
***edited...dang i didn't realize that the picture i loaded was so big...i'll resize it and post it. later...sorry folks...******



OMG I wanna see!

[Curious]

soooo missy...where are the cupcakes?

:::smooches::: :D

[ConsiderThis]

i wonder how many funerals it will take?

speaking of puppies....i didn't know you had a boxer? my grandpuppy is a boxer. this is his 1 yr old picture taken a few weeks ago.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j147/ChynaBirdd/munson-3.jpg

i agree with you zs. i think enough has been said in all the old posts. time to let bt1 go from this board. IF it does come back...good luck to it and it's members. :D i'm sorry you had such posts to come back to after not feeling well. but there are some good funny ones scattered around. and many many helpful supportive ones.

I loved it big. All the ostrich pictures I posted on pbs were big. Big is much clearer, I love big pictures. PLEASE put it back.... Please?

[Curious]

OMG I wanna see!

i put it back. i haven't had time to re-size it. he is sistermonkeys dog. i love him to death!!! he is just turned 1. the picture was taken at the pet food store they take him to. he is such a silly. i was shocked he sat still. they moved to the eart coast a few months ago, so i really miss him. hehehe...her and bf too!!

[ConsiderThis]

... did you put it back exactly when I was posting hoping that you would...
it wasn't there when I quoted you, I thought... but it's in my quote.

In any case, I LOVE it.

:)

[Chemar]

soooo missy...where are the cupcakes?


http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b283/almasattic/monkeycupcakes-1.jpg

Supersized!!:D

[Curious]

::::swoons::::

i'm in heaven.....

those are nutter butters for ears!!!!!!oh goodness....even better than i thought!!!!

[dorry]

haha love the boxer gloves hanging in the pic. he's a cutie!

here's my big brown dufus:

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2703/smdn3.th.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2703/smdn3.jpg

I love his low rumble 'speak' lol. Reminds me of Billy Bob Thornton in Slingblade.

[dorry]

Chemar I'm not big on sweets, but damn those look GOOD!

oops sorry ZS! looks like us women hijacked your thread

[ConsiderThis]

Okay, I cannot get the cupcakes out of my mind. My mouth is literally watering for them. Are they real? Are there real cupcakes that those are a picture of????


and the dogs, oh my goodness they are so loveable. They look like they would be so wonderful to have around.

[Chemar]

Okay, I cannot get the cupcakes out of my mind. My mouth is literally watering for them. Are they real? Are there real cupcakes that those are a picture of????


yep, real choccy delites........cant take credit for baking them tho...someone posted them on another forum :p

[dorry]

and the dogs, oh my goodness they are so loveable. They look like they would be so wonderful to have around.


yep. keeps us on our toes and laughing daily. I'd take a dozen of them myself!

[ConsiderThis]

yep, real choccy delites........cant take credit for baking them tho...someone posted them on another forum :p
Well, that person who baked them has my ADMIRATION.

Wow.
they are just so cute, and the look Good, too.
(Good to eat.)

I cannot believe that they are literally making my mouth water!!!!!

(((((((((Chemar)))))))))))
for posting the picture of them. :)

[The Crystal Cave]

//Rant on to all folks that fit it....

I'm tired of people making assumptions and jumping to conclusions and trying to mislead people about Mr. Lester and BrainTalk. Some of the stuff said here at Braintalk2 could be construed as libel.

None of you (nor I for that matter) have any proof of any wrong doing, with the exception of his lack of communication and participation. I find this (lack of communication) very disturbing, highly offensive, quite rude, and definately not at all like the Mr. Lester I thought I knew.

So how about you find (and post) some facts before making statements that may or may not be true? Or at the very least take the easy way out and say it's your opinion. That way people won't think what you say is fact.

//Rant off.

Back on topic. Thanks, ZombieSlayer. It may be a futile exercise. Once a single speculation or covert accusation is made, in the cyberworld or the real world, the race is on in a game of, "Who Can Top This?"

I've already written a novella's-worth today, so I guess a little more won't matter. I'll post this in two pieces to make it less intimidating.

I used to teach communication classes to executives and managers. One of the exercises I used, my favorite, in fact, was to illustrate how some carefully chosen words could allow the person who used them to do some hit-and-run damage and still be off the hook.

Put the emphasis on the bold words:
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money.
I never said he took the money
I never said he took the money.

Perfect set up for "you misunderstood what I wrote." My sister's favorite is, "Well I just asked, I didn't make any accusations." Right.

For what it's worth, I just left the following post on the "is it dead" thread.

Thanks for trying to put out the wildfire.

TCC

[The Crystal Cave]

My post from the other thread:

From the same link right at then end..

So here we are. BrainTalk Communities Inc. is funding this project as part of it's core mission to explore online communities that help neurology patients and caregivers, and we have purchased a private island in Second Life

BUT..... could this down, be a test of some sort? To increase Brigadoon
enrollment? Just a thought.

There HAS to be a good reason for this situation.:(

and you are correct ZS... but what I am saying is that when any of us donate to BT we should be clearly aware of the fact that $$ may be going to Brigadoon. It appears that JL decides how much and when the OBT account would be used for the Brigadoon project. When the down in April of 05 happened, people believed the donations went to the server (no mention of Brigadoon was made)….

Of course Brigadoon wasn’t mentioned. The money went to the server. (If you have a hint of validation for your "it appears" inference, I hope you'll share it with us. I haven't been able to find anything yet.)

http://zero.hastypastry.net/forums/ Donations are accounted for with $3,000 left over for the continued care and feeding of the system. That was a year and a half ago. Methinks the system nibbled more than $3,000 worth in that amount of time. Google ads contributed some revenue, people periodically sent some donations.

mrsd, you posted the Brigadoon description under your post titled "Where OBT donations went." Here’s part of what you pasted from the Brigadoon site and written by John Lester:

"I am using BrainTalk Communities Inc. as the organization to receive and process the funds. Since BrainTalk Communities is a non-profit organization, all donations are fully tax deductible, and all donations made through the "donate" button on this Brigadoon blog will be used *exclusively* for Project Brigadoon."
Since I haven’t been able yet to locate the FAQ from BT1, I can’t know if there is a similar statement there about the exclusive use of donations. BT1 had a "donate" button also. It's not likely since the pages hadn't been updated since hula hoops were in. I'll see if I can find it anyway.

For mrsd and stumps, this is a google link to a cached page of the administrative announcements at BT1. Get past the David H one at the top, if you can. The rest is by John Lester, which gives some introduction to the other places where he’s been working, like Brigadoon. And it clearly states Brigadoon is part of BrainTalk Communities.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:5CaHqh4mWuAJ:brain.hastypastry.net/forums/announcement.php%3Ff%3D10+%22braintalk%22+%22san+f rancisco%22+moderators&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&ie=UTF-8

BrainTalk Communities Inc. is the umbrella organization. Brigadoon is one of its entities. BrainTalk forums is one of its entities. Because they are under the same umbrella does NOT in and of itself mean that the forums support Brigadoon, nor does is mean Brigadoon supports the forums. It means they are both members of the same corporation. Contributions are processed by BrainTalk Communities Inc. I'm not an expert in how non-profit monies are handled – it is my understanding that money from one entity cannot be transferred to another. Can anyone help in that area?

I’m let down, disappointed and disrespected (and angry) too BECAUSE OF THE SILENCE. Speculating about where money is, and goes, and went, assumptions that there even is any money, and raising passive-aggressive questions about what John Lester does and did with donations, is just plain irresponsible. Contemptible might work, too. Talk about disrespect!

It does a terrible disservice to a person who is not even here to field questions. This is someone who has failed us for over two months. That is after 13 years of taking care of us. I’m ticked that he isn’t here and hasn’t communicated. But to use that as a seque to undermining the man’s integrity with back-door innuendo is nothing short of disgusting.

[ConsiderThis]

It does a terrible disservice to a person who is not even here to field questions.
WAIT -- Is he banned? :eek: Is that why he can't be here to field questions?:confused:

Gosh... poor thing. I really think everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.;)

:D

[The Crystal Cave]

He is not here. He hasn't been here, and he hasn't communcated with anyone. If he's not here, he can't answer questions. ConsiderThis, from my heart, a request - would you delete your "banned" question so another rumor doesn't take off? Thank you soooooo much. I hope you've had a good week.

[ConsiderThis]

Hi Crystal Cave,
No. I won't delete it. Anyone who reads these threads can see that he could very well say something, come here and say something ... but he has chosen not to.

He hasn't said much any place.

He allowed people to be banned and not be able to defend themselves.

So I think it's an apropos joke.

[Username]

My post from the other thread:

It does a terrible disservice to a person who is not even here to field questions. This is someone who has failed us for over two months. That is after 13 years of taking care of us. I’m ticked that he isn’t here and hasn’t communicated. But to use that as a seque to undermining the man’s integrity with back-door innuendo is nothing short of disgusting.

Extremely well written response and statement.

Thank you.

Linda

[ConsiderThis]

Extremely well written response and statement.

Thank you.

Linda
What is disgusting is that he didn't post and hasn't cared to explain. Don't blame us that he isn't here or at Brain Talk...

To me, the popular book title describes it perfectly,

He's Just Not that Into You

:D

[dorry]

WAIT -- Is he banned? Is that why he can't be here to field questions?

Gosh... poor thing. I really think everyone should be allowed to defend themselves.;)

:D

haha omg I got the j/k :)

here he is http://mystatus.skype.com/bigclassic/DangerJohn3

unless gmail is broke, it's real easy to hit the reply button.

[ConsiderThis]

;)

(((((((((Dorry)))))))))))

[paula_w]

Consider This - I have to admit you make an excellent point here. There is no such thing as John not being here. He could read this from almost anywhere in the world.


If you are losing a friend, as ZombieSlayer may feel, then this has to be hard. But I've been posting to braintalk since 1998 - my entire life has changed from contacts made here.......and guess what......I'm over it!

This place is just fine with me. If John ever decides to explain himself, I'm sure he will be forgiven. In the meantime, I enjoy the freedom of this one. John screwed up, we all do, but if he doesn't owe us anything that works both ways.
two cents,
paula

oops, there's a parkinsonian for ya, hit enter before finished.....anybody want to guess what i might have called this? lol

[The Crystal Cave]

I think it's an apropos joke.

Yes, I see the humor now. I didn't before so I took your question in the literal sense. Thank you.

[stevem53]

ZS made some very good points, as did many others..As Paula mentioned lack of communication leads to speculation..I personally have been patient, and more that willing to give John Lester the benefit of the doubt because of his reputation, and that even though there has been a lack of communication I still find it difficult to believe that JL just abandoned us, and doesnt care..I have to admitt that the speculation does tend to have its moments..but it is apparent that something is wrong here, but just what is that something?..Is very unlike John not to keep us updated and especially for this length of time..I cant imagine a man of his conviction and dedication just walking away like it never happened

[ConsiderThis]

Consider This - I have to admit you make an excellent point here. There is no such thing as John not being here. He could read this from almost anywhere in the world.


If you are losing a friend, as ZombieSlayer may feel, then this has to be hard. But I've been posting to braintalk since 1998 - my entire life has changed from contacts made here.......and guess what......I'm over it!

This place is just fine with me. If John ever decides to explain himself, I'm sure he will be forgiven. In the meantime, I enjoy the freedom of this one. John screwed up, we all do, but if he doesn't owe us anything that works both ways.
two cents,
paula

oops, there's a parkinsonian for ya, hit enter before finished.....anybody want to guess what i might have called this? lol

((((((((((Paula)))))))))

Thanks, a lot.

I had a friend who was sooo hurt by being banned, primarily because she just loved JL. (And she didn't understand what she had done to cause it) So I can imagine how ZS feels.

Your post made me get tears in my eyes.

[ConsiderThis]

Yes, I see the humor now. I didn't before so I took your question in the literal sense. Thank you.

Crystal, you are a true sweetheart.

((((((((((((The Crystal Cave))))))))))))

[paula_w]

This is not an attempt to start a political discussion!

If you want a chuckle at my expense, just compare my first attempt to have a civil political discussion. It looks like this ho ho:

http://forums.braintalk2.org/showthread.php?t=460

and the real one:

http://forums.braintalk2.org/showthread.php?t=376


I mean, which one says I'm oK you're ok ?.........hahaha

paula

[ZombieSlayer]

Yeah and there were secret prisons to torture the captives who might be terrorists.

It's all good.

Or is it?

Please don't think I am out to get you...but what the flying hell does this have to do with anything??? Really...I just don't see why this was posted here.

Curious you have a cute looking grandpuppy :D

Dorry....:p

Everyone else

I'm just genuinely confused at Mr. Lesters actions in the last half dozen months or so. I can see why people are mad and hurt. I'm starting to get a little mad myself.

I'm also getting pissed off about the pure speculation, outright bullcrap, and obvious libel that is being spouted as pure truth.

I'm just sick and tired of people posting crap without any proof.

Typically I hold my tongue when I see stuff on the net that is just pure crap. However this time I don't feel like doing so. Somebody has to step up and correct all of the mis-information that is being posted.

It's time to stop the bs and start supporting those that need it.

[DocJohn]

I think, honestly, that while people could and should vent their frustrations about the situation and lack of communication, we should try and do this once and get it out of our systems. And then move on and not make any more assumptions about his or anyone else's behavior.

Really, there's nothing more to do about the situation for now. If he refuses to update anyone on the situation, that's his perogative. We just have to accept it and move on.

John

[lisa6wks]

Now see, the way Doc says "refuses" make it sound volitional and biased. If we don't know the whole story, we don't know why John doesn't explain and we don't know if he can help it. By saying refuses like that, it makes it sound as though John doesn't care and I really don't believe that, nor do I know it to be true and neither does anyone else!

Like you, ZS, I am confused and upset. But I don't want to think badly of someone who has behaved so well and so generously for so many years. Seems to me the least he should deserve is a couple of months of trust.

Maybe that's just me though. Evidently, a lot of people don't have very much faith in others.

Lisa

[flowergirl]

ZombieSlayer,

It appears that your thread has been hijacked so I'm posting a new thread to address this:

[QUOTE=ZombieSlayer;6378]//Rant on to all folks that fit it....

I'm tired of people making assumptions and jumping to conclusions and trying to mislead people about Mr. Lester and BrainTalk. Some of the stuff said here at Braintalk2 could be construed as libel.

None of you (nor I for that matter) have any proof of any wrong doing, with the exception of his lack of communication and participation. I find this (lack of communication) very disturbing, highly offensive, quite rude, and definately not at all like the Mr. Lester I thought I knew.

So how about you find (and post) some facts before making statements that may or may not be true? Or at the very least take the easy way out and say it's your opinion. That way people won't think what you say is fact.

//Rant off

I want to THANK YOU for posting this. You are right.

Here are a couple of facts:

John Lester has given more than a decade of his personal time to BrainTalk. It isn't his job and he doesn't get paid for it. BrainTalk is a labor of love. That love is for us. Those who need a place to share experiences and gain wisdom from others.

There was a time, years ago, when BrainTalk wen't down and the fix was $10,000. JL paid for that fix out of his pocket. His personal income. Just as the inception of BrainTalk, the hardware, software, etc. was out of his pocket.

JL has a job. He needs a job to support himself. If he doesn't have a job and has to live in the street, there will never be a BrainTalk. And from the information provided by one of the posters here at BT2, it is obvious that there has been a major meltdown with the hacking at that job. So he is BUSY. It is apparent to me, and others, that he is trying to resolve the issues at his job AND resolve the issues at BrainTalk.

Has anyone ever had that "snowball effect" take place in their life? I have. Just recently. My father died of cancer and 2 months later my FIL had to be placed in a nursing facility b/c I could no longer care for his needs. Then six months later my mother was hospitalized and dx'd with ARDS. Two weeks later my FIL passed away and 2 weeks after that my husband coded twice in ER and was sent to another hospital for heart surgery. One month later I was told my breast cancer metasticized. And all this while caring for several specialneeds foster children whose dx's ranged from cerebral palsy to schizophrenia.

Yes, I know the snowball effect. It has happened to me.

And I think it just might be happening to John Lester.

He travels out of town on business. When he gets back he finds BrainTalk has crashed. It is big. It requires new hardware and software AGAIN. Much to do to get it up and running.... in his spare time while holding down a job. And then, the icing on cake, a big meltdown on the job. And it is his baby so he has much to do to fix it.

And we don't know what's going on in his personal life. Everyone just assumes he doesn't have a life outside BrainTalk.

JL is human. A loving, caring, giving human. He has provided much to us. The least we can do is allow him the time he needs to resolve all the issues in his life.

I can wait as long as JL needs to get BrainTalk back online. He has been there for me for a decade. I can be there for him for the few months it takes, even if it takes more than a few months.


And by the way, while people are posting their frustrations they have violated the TOS of this very forum (BT2).

"By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

This is exactly why I haven't posted here before today. And your post, ZombieSlayer, is the only reason I registered and posted.

Again, THANK YOU for being you and for supporting JL.

Flowergirl

[paula_w]

"Maybe that's just me though." Evidently, a lot of people don't have very much faith in others.

That's an opinion you are welcome to have but not yours to determine for anyone else. How much faith one has in John is not reflected in the discussion. I don't know you I don't think- so HI and hope that was ok to say.

Paula

[ConsiderThis]

Now see, the way Doc says "refuses" make it sound volitional and biased. If we don't know the whole story, we don't know why John doesn't explain and we don't know if he can help it. By saying refuses like that, it makes it sound as though John doesn't care and I really don't believe that, nor do I know it to be true and neither does anyone else!

Like you, ZS, I am confused and upset. But I don't want to think badly of someone who has behaved so well and so generously for so many years. Seems to me the least he should deserve is a couple of months of trust.

Maybe that's just me though. Evidently, a lot of people don't have very much faith in others.

Lisa


lol
everything in the world is open to interpretation...

[paula_w]

uh-oh i'm in schoolteacher mode....gotta go....lol...cya later.

paula

[unknown]

Is there some reason that every thread on this forum here has postings about cookies, dogs, or other totally unrelated things. It seems pretty rude to keep injecting these non-sequitors. How about starting a cookie and dog thread so those who are interested can stick to the subject of the thread. Several pages of cookie stuff is annoying to have to wade through.

ZS,

I totally agree with you.

It seems childish and ridiculous to jump all over someone who has done so much for BT for many years.

How DARE the man have a private life, go on vacation, and not respond to emails when the senders demand????? And.... he was seen going into a restaurant? How dare he do that when if he got carryout he could keep working on our forum.

The fact that he doesn't get paid should have nothing to do with his OBLIGATIONS to us. He OWES us.

If I were him and saw this forum, I would just say to hell with the whole thing and drop BT forever.

If this forum is going to be anything other than a bash BT forum, then perhaps BT one should be dropped from being the main topic of discussion around here.

As to the moderators, like everyone else, I don't always agree with what they say, but on the occasions I have seen them ban people, it was for violating the TOS. Anyone who doesn't like the TOS can choose to follow them or go somewhere else.

The TOS are posted and you have to agree to follow them to join. People seem to think that once they have agreed to follow them and don't, that somehow they are entitled not to be required to follow them.

Yeah, I would have liked the notice updated more often and the forum not down for so long, but that is different than making up unsubstantiated allegations about people's motives and actions.

[Thelma]

John Lester has given more than a decade of his personal time to BrainTalk. It isn't his job and he doesn't get paid for it. BrainTalk is a labor of love. That love is for us. Those who need a place to share experiences and gain wisdom from others.

There was a time, years ago, when BrainTalk wen't down and the fix was $10,000. JL paid for that fix out of his pocket. His personal income. Just as the inception of BrainTalk, the hardware, software, etc. was out of his pocket.

I thilnk these are the very things that make thlis situation one that can not be discussed rationally.

Firstly it was his job and it was at the request of his boss that the site was first done. MGH suppllied the room to house the computer that was the first used and indeed payed for it. It was much later as the membership grew that he needed more up to date equiptment and both MGH and the membership got it.

Dr Anne B Young Head of Neurology MGH who is a member of his executive at the Braintalk communities. There are no members there save the executive which are composed of 5 members with John holding 2 or 3 of the positions.
John is the President and the treasurer as well as something else that I don't remeber what just now. Tom Ferguson is on the executive along with John's friend from MGH who used to be on Braintalk from time to time. The fifth one is a girl who's name I have forgotten.


Secondly when Braintalk went down those costs you are relating to were covered by the membership with some funds left over for the future as John himself reported. It was not from his personal pocket.

I know about John and I value all that he has done for people but he is not a saint.He is a normal human being that has done a good thing for a lot of people but like all of us he has a personal motive in doing it and his profession now shows his active interest has been in this type of work for many years and Braintalk has been a vital ingredient for his job prospects.

But that only goes to make me and others not understand why he has not taken the time to assuage the feelings and concerns of those members of the site that have helped him through the years to get where he is today.

It was and is a moral responsibility to let the members know just how long the site will be down and indeed if it will be back.

So from these actions many are finding it hard to feel that it was only a job and nothing more. There was really no contact otherwise.

That for many is the hurt they feel.............at least i think that is it

I may be wrong..................but have been before..............thlis time I hope

I am totally wrong

[unknown]

Since this reply was posted on a different thread which had other postings before it which appear to be gone, it doesn't make sense, so I deleted it.

[lisa6wks]

Hi Paula W.
Actually I have been around for years, mostly a lurker, but sometimes a poster. And it's all right for you to say anything you want. But I do think that having or not having faith in John is being discussed in this thread. Does anyone know here whether or not John is having some sort of crisis in his life? I know I have no idea and I haven't heard that anyone else does either. So until I hear from John otherwise, I prefer to think there is something going on that prevents him from communicating or otherwise fixing the servers. I think he deserves at least that.

By the way, I am a school teacher as well.

Lisa

[paula_w]

Fair enough.....I felt like we were supposed to have faith according to someone else's standards. It's an individual thing.

Personally, I haven't heard from John in years. Some of us are closer to him than others, and there shouldn't be any expectations. It's hard to imagine a situation that he couldn't update...but everyone who has a need should be able to say it.

Some of us have been reading it longer and i'm one of them so I need to move off this thread lol.

Peace,
Paula

[Chemar]

I think, honestly, that while people could and should vent their frustrations about the situation and lack of communication, we should try and do this once and get it out of our systems. And then move on and not make any more assumptions about his or anyone else's behavior.

Really, there's nothing more to do about the situation for now. If he refuses to update anyone on the situation, that's his perogative. We just have to accept it and move on.

John

BRAVO.............again!:)

[KTM5665]

this sounds a bit like "a he dumped me" high school musical or something.

[ConsiderThis]

this sounds a bit like "a he dumped me" high school musical or something.
Hey! :D

Chucke, chuckle.

[DocJohn]

You're right, I shouldn't have said "refuses to update anyone," because, for all we know, he's updated others who have decided for whatever reasons not to update others. Otherwise, he hasn't updated others for reasons of his own choosing.

Either way you read it, I meant to say -- simply -- that without updates, we should not keep focusing on the reasons behind BT1's continued downtime and no updates. Vent in ONE thread and move on, because the minute BT1 comes back (if it comes back), everyone will know it!

Wild speculation on the causes, reasons, motivations, etc. -- while in many people's human nature -- can only go so far here. I'm kindly and respectfully asking people to focus on expressing their own emotions about the situation, and leave the speculation elsewhere. I think everyone's had quite enough of it.

Thanks,
John

[trekker]

I think it's a cow conspiracy. Heck, look at what they've done to our arteries, air and now spinach! They're behind this somehow, I just know it. ;)

[Alffe]

Dear God in Heaven...may this thread get locked! :(

[ConsiderThis]

I don't believe in locking threads...

A lot of people had things to say... I did.

The need to talk about this will run it's course... better to let it all get thrashed out, then to leave something bottled up.

I can see where Doc John is coming from... but at the same time...

I was thinking, this is sort of tangential, that back in 1997 when I had tried to kill myself and was in the hospital after they revived me, the police came and took me to jail for having overgrown Chamisa, which is a New Mexico weed/shrub in my front yard.

It was very upsetting to me.

At one point I was seeing a psychiatrist, this is the first session, which I'd gotten my neurologist to okay with my insurance.

I had wanted to see a psychiatrist because I'd seen R.D. Lange once in London and he was great, I mean inspired.

Okay, so I was telling the psychiatrist about the hospital/jail thing because it was such a constant source of worry to me, always scared kind of thing, and the psychiatrist said, "I know you believe that happened, but I know a lot about the judicial system, and I know that couldn't happen." He stressed that he believed that I believed it happened.

I got so cold, I began shaking from how cold I was.

I obviously never went back...

I think I have the papers from the court part of it on my site somewhere... let me see if I can find a link... so that you aren't tempted to think that I "believe" this... alone.

http://www.health-boundaries-bite.com/Jail-for-Weeds.html

Okay, so I think this thread is a bit like that...

(though I can't put the likeness into words)

[Username]

The problem with this thread and a few others, is that it seems when a positive post is written, it is immediately "quoted" and discounted in about a mil-a-second. It feels like people are laying in wait. Very few people will oppose the negative responses for fear they will be challanged. Even if it isn't written like "you must be blind or stupid if you don't believe yada-yada-yada.......", the meaning comes across very clear. And there is absolutely no point in challenging those comments, as evidenced in previous attempts.

[ConsiderThis]

Hi UserName,

Being afraid to challenge isn't good.

If I hadn't challenged the City of Santa Fe, I wouldn't have gotten $12,500 to make up for them taking me out of the hospital and putting me in jail because I hadn't trimmed the weeds in my front yard to their liking.

Challenge away! That's what I say.

[Mama Bear]

I can wait as long as JL needs to get BrainTalk back online. He has been there for me for a decade. I can be there for him for the few months it takes, even if it takes more than a few months.


I agree with Flowergirl.

John Lester is the reason that all of us are here. He created Braintalk, and we flocked to it. He gave, we gave. He received, we received.

I'm guilty of blithely assuming that Braintalk would always exist. While it's obvious that members can reassemble as they have done here (thank you, DocJohn), the wealth of information and experience on Braintalk is irreplaceable. My hope is that everything written there can be retrieved, otherwise, re-opening Braintalk would be like starting over. It seems that that is what is occuring here on BT2, so what would be the point?

For now, a better use of our time and energy is to continue the supportive spirit of Braintalk here at BT2 and wait patiently for either the resurgence of Braintalk or an explanation of its demise.

If we are starting over, we have a lot of work to do!

Mama Bear

[ConsiderThis]

Hi MamaBear,

:)

You've made me think of Spring!

[paula_w]

The problem with when a positive post is written, it is this thread and a few others, is that it seems immediately "quoted" and discounted in about a mil-a-second. It feels like people are laying in wait. Very few people will oppose the negative responses for fear they will be challanged. Even if it isn't written like "you must be blind or stupid if you don't believe yada-yada-yada.......", the meaning comes across very clear. And there is absolutely no point in challenging those comments, as evidenced in previous attempts.

Are positive statements those in favor of waiting for John and not to speculate? That's an honest opinion - i think the problems come from judging those or scolding people that don't share that opinion. That is telling someone they should feel like you, which just doesn't work

Shariing your feelings but not judging others if they don't agree, leads to understanding and acceptance, but may never bring agreement. Why do we have to agree? As Jaye said earlier - what she has learned on these forums is not to tell people what they should feel or say.

We could try to break the habit this way.Next person to mention John L in terms of complaint about BT1 has to go out and find a funny joke and bring it back here.

paula

[ConsiderThis]

But see, I don't think anyone should be punished for their feelings, however lovely the "punishment" is --

I read youir first paragraphs and was so in tune with them...

but then...

Just let everyone feel however they feel, don't you think?

[Jaye]

I saw post #35 by ZS in the ZS rant thread. "It's time to stop the bs and start supporting those that need it."

I thought as how I need some help, which was why I was glad to see this forum come into being.

I thought maybe a good person to "ask" for response would be someone who complained that people here were not giving enough support. So I submitted post #105 in the death of BT thread. I quote myself: Nice ta meetcha

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, Ellie, I'm Jaye, and I have had Parkinson's Disease for about ten years and painful degenerative arthritis of my left hip for about five.

I'm one of the old faithfuls of the PD board, but there are new people who don't know me because I haven't been posting much lately. The hip is majorly painful and I don't know how to talk about it. The PD is fatal but the pain's not. However, if I'd listened to the first orthopedic surgeon, I'd still be waiting for surgery and I'd have no information about what's happening to me. I thought we should get on with it because the PD keeps getting worse and I have dystonias (muscles suddenly getting rock-stiff) in that thigh, and I was tired of the rudeness of him and his office staff, so I got a new doc. The second orthopedic surgeon will replace my hip in less than a month from now, and the first thing he said to me was, "Why have you waited this long to take care of this?" "Because doctors don't listen to their patients," I said. He explained that any more waiting and there wouldn't be enough pelvis left to attach the prosthesis to. I guess my other docs just thought I was being whiney about my PD.

And my other doctors have been nagging me to exercise. I've been telling them it's too painful to walk, and they keep telling me to walk anyway. Now maybe they'll believe me.

The point being, if i hadn't been here helping newer people deal with doctors all this time, I don't know if I would have woken up in time to change doctors. I don't think anyone's actually reading my posts through here, though, because they're maybe too intent on bursting out with what they want to say. Or someone reads them and jumps on my case about something and tells me how to feel. Well, it seems like it anyway.

Welcome to whatever this is.

The most important thing I've learned in Braintalk 0, 0.5, 0.75, 1, and 2 is not to tell other people how they should anything--post, talk, feel, act, be. Remove the word "should" when talking about or to others, and you will be much happier and wiser. So you really should do as I say.

I like a person who stands up for what they believe in. See you on one of my rare forays into chat some time.

Jaye

Only Consider This and one of my closest personal friends responded to this.

Think about it. I 've been exemplary, yes , I can describe myself that way, exemplary in putting th efforti here to help other people. No one sees most of my problems because I take them in stride. Now I'm in a situation I don't quite know how to handle (or didn't at the time I posted, although Thelma gave some personal support and Paula called.

What is the moral situation here? What do you think about it?

Almost all of you have shown less civility, never mind support, toward a sick person than you expect everyone else to show. Just a fact.

Flashchat giggling makes it hard for me and others with concentration problems to follow the thread. Maybe we can begin to face the problems we can do something about? And dammit, a lot of food talk triggers some people with eating disorders. I KNOW I don't have to read it, but I was in the thread to read about the subject of the thread. And remember, I was bleeding pretty loud for a minute there.

Okay, everyone ready to jump in my ka-ka for losing control after all these years?

Not telling you what you should be, but geez, who are you people?

Jaye and getting Graye

[paula_w]

I think you mean me Consider This? I suppose it might look like punishment, but I only meant it half jokingly as a way to stop the posts which several have asked for. No not punishment.

paula

[kimmydawn]

As an outsider, and not a member of OBT, it appears that many are grieving or feel a loss for so much due to the OBT being offline for so long without any updates and might feel grief/sadness/frustration/hurt over loss of information, kinship, an online "home", years of posting, trust, hopes, etc. I think with grieving "anything goes" almost in the way of feelings.

I do hope for an understanding for all OBT members in whatever form it is they need. :)

It's good to meet everyone. Y'all seem to be such a great group of truly caring people.

KD

[ConsiderThis]

Hi Jaye,

I sent you an eCard :)

To view your eCard, click on the following link.
http://www.americangreetings.com/view.pd?i=416258335&m=7507&rr=y&source=ag999

(((((((((Jaye))))))))

[ConsiderThis]

I think you mean me Consider This? I suppose it might look like punishment, but I only meant it half jokingly as a way to stop the posts which several have asked for. No not punishment.

paula


((((((((((paula))))))))))

:)

[dorry]

i think the problems come from judging those or scolding people that don't share that opinion. That is telling someone they should feel like you, which just doesn't work.



bravo Paula! Some want to diss the open communication, but I see BT2 blossoming into something that I personally never saw on BT1.

Bullying people to try to control threads the way one person expects them to go aren't tolerated here, which is what many of us despised about BT1.

Sorry about the dogs and cookies. When threads get tense we like to lighten them up for all our sakes. Since ZS is my bud, I figured he could handle it :p ZS and I don't agree on things some of the time, but we respect each others differences with no comment required. That's amazing to be able to say about a friend online.

ZS you are the best, and I truly appreciate you http://geocities.com/braintalkgeeks/dorry/pics/rose.gif

[ConsiderThis]

What Dorry said!!!!!!

and welcome Kimmy! :)

[kimmydawn]

Thank you, considerthis. :) I'm glad to be here.

I can't believe the massive information I've found already and this site is brand spankin' new. :)

KD

[paula_w]

Ka-ka? Are you sure that isn't spelled ca-ca? Is it the same as doo doo ?

I agree tho that Jaye was opening herself up there and since we visit each other I can say that she is practically incapacitated due to a hip that a doctor almost let get too far to fix. She is in extreme pain and that is without throwing pd into the mix.

Has having a chronic illness caused you to stop sweating the little stuff? After 17 years with PD, I'm on borrowed time and DO NOT sweat the little stuff, don't have the energy.

it'll get better,
Paula:)

[dorry]

It's good to meet everyone. Y'all seem to be such a great group of truly caring people.

KD

welcome kimmydawn! Glad you can see past the rabble rousing and see the people behind the words. Hope to see more of you.

[ConsiderThis]

Thank you, considerthis. :) I'm glad to be here.

I can't believe the massive information I've found already and this site is brand spankin' new. :)

KD
((((((Kimmy))))))

People do the most amazing job of putting information together, and they are soooo helpful. It is such a blessing!

I'm glad you're here.

:)

[kimmydawn]

Thank you, dorry!

Man, I can just imagine what y'all must be going through. I really can...

I'm just glad you're here and have a place and it's not just for you all, though it is for the most part... ;) ... it's for me too. There's so much here to see...and the support...it's awesome. The information is priceless. :)

KD

[dorry]

jaye - sorry to hear you felt neglected. I read your post and know nothing about PD. I get lost on some of the posts when abbreviations are made and I don't know what they are talking about.

I agree with not using the word "should" but had said it before and didn't want to repeat myself.

Hoping things go well with your surgery. BTDT with doctors assuming they have the answers and letting things run on and become worse. I think most of us have!

[paula_w]

er, ah Kimmy there....hello, just ignore the first line of my post below- its not worthy of your fine compliment haha, what a follow up to your post lol

[ZombieSlayer]

Hi Jaye :)

Since I don't know anything about PD (I had to look up what PD stood for :rolleyes: ) I didn't reply to your post. I did read it and sent a pm to someone who I thought might help, but she hasn't been online since. I just didn't want to come across as being hypocritical hence my reply to you here.

{{{{{Dorry}}}}}

The feeling is mutual no doubt :)

[ConsiderThis]

Ka-ka? Are you sure that isn't spelled ca-ca? Is it the same as doo doo ?

I agree tho that Jaye was opening herself up there and since we visit each other I can say that she is practically incapacitated due to a hip that a doctor almost let get too far to fix. She is in extreme pain and that is without throwing pd into the mix.

Has having a chronic illness caused you to stop sweating the little stuff? After 17 years with PD, I'm on borrowed time and DO NOT sweat the little stuff, don't have the energy.

it'll get better,
Paula:)
((((((paula))))))

Wow, what a lesson that was. Thank you.

I was ready to jump on you for your response to Jaye, when I realized you were Jaye's friend who had actually called.

It is so easy to misinterpret. Gosh.

((((((((Paula))))))))

[SallyC]

As an outsider, and not a member of OBT, it appears that many are grieving or feel a loss for so much due to the OBT being offline for so long without any updates and might feel grief/sadness/frustration/hurt over loss of information, kinship, an online "home", years of posting, trust, hopes, etc. I think with grieving "anything goes" almost in the way of feelings.

I do hope for an understanding for all OBT members in whatever form it is they need. :)

I hope that my unsolicited response is ok...

It's good to meet everyone. Y'all seem to be such a great group of truly caring people.

KD

Thanks KD, and Welcome. Your post is a welcome post indeed and very well stated. Everyone has their own way of grieving and that's what is happening here. DocJohn has graciously allowed and encouraged it.

I lost my DH in Jan-2004, and one of the first things I did, in my grieving process, was to be angry and lash out. How dare he die and leave me alone. He promised he wouldn't do that. Well, you get the drift..Anger, frustration, feelings of dissertion, can all be part of the grieving process.

IF JL was the man on that pedestal, where many here have placed him, then he could squelsh all this lashing out and speculations. Why doesn't he do the honorable thing here, and communicate with his faithful members. Even if, like some have said, is unable to do it, certainly, one of his collegues could.

I am one of those faithful followers and contributers, and I am asking...Why John...Why?

Slowly backing out of room now..:rolleyes:

[paula_w]

No problem, i was busy trying to cover up my ca ca comment and trying to impress Kimmy with better information....lol

paula

[kimmydawn]

No problem, i was busy trying to cover up my ca ca comment and trying to impress Kimmy with better information....lol

paula

LOL...you are fine. :)

KD

[ConsiderThis]

((((((((SallyC))))))))

Don't go!

[kimmydawn]

((((((((((((((( sallyc )))))))))))))))))))

I'm sorry for your pain and loss.

KD

[SallyC]

I'm not going anywhere..LOL

Thanks, KD. It is still hard, even after all this time.

[Bobbi]

You're right, I shouldn't have said "refuses to update anyone," because, for all we know, he's updated others who have decided for whatever reasons not to update others. Otherwise, he hasn't updated others for reasons of his own choosing.

Either way you read it, I meant to say -- simply -- that without updates, we should not keep focusing on the reasons behind BT1's continued downtime and no updates. Vent in ONE thread and move on, because the minute BT1 comes back (if it comes back), everyone will know it!

Wild speculation on the causes, reasons, motivations, etc. -- while in many people's human nature -- can only go so far here. I'm kindly and respectfully asking people to focus on expressing their own emotions about the situation, and leave the speculation elsewhere. I think everyone's had quite enough of it.

Thanks,
John

Praise be :). Live and let live. Move on. It's time. I'm doing my best to keep a positive outlook toward this new "set up" yet... it really is as User Name / Linda has stated: The positives are just being so drowned by the ... vents? speculations? whatevers? about BT and JL that the positives that, otherwise, could surface here are being squashed (or, if some prefer, buried or nestled so deeply within threads that have been hijacked).

Thank you for your posts: DocJohn, ZombieS., User Name, and others looking forward to also looking ahead :).

(... and sorry that I've not replied to personal messages - PMs and E-mails - very much lately ... I've been on vacation and am doing my catch up reading this week, I promise!)

Can people just do as DocJohn politely suggested, though? Really? I do believe I have given to the BT community - more than in terms of monetarily - and I am so weary of reading even more innuendo about BT, JL, its moderators, and so on. That type stuff is not "support," in my estimation.

Tell me to shove it, or whatever, but... it is time to move on and make the best of the venue DocJohn has offered all of us :). Venting is one thing, but "beating" a subject or person to ... well, that's another story.

[kimmydawn]

Thanks, KD. It is still hard, even after all this time.

I can only imagine... Again, I'm so sorry.

I'm in the Ohio Valley as well. :)

KD

[dorry]

I'm not going anywhere..LOL

Thanks, KD. It is still hard, even after all this time.

Sally, I'm so sorry for your loss. That is one of my greatest fears in life and I get angry when mine promises me he isn't going anywhere. That's a promise none of us can keep. It's sad that us women outlive men. Like childbirth and motherhood wasn't enough to have to deal with.

I used to tutor widows on the computer and my heart goes out to every one of them. I used to adopt them all into my family! Widows have a very special place in my heart.

[dorry]

Tell me to shove it, or whatever, but... it is time to move on and make the best of the venue DocJohn has offered all of us :). Venting is one thing, but "beating" a subject or person to ... well, that's another story.

lol we've been working on it, trying to change the subject, but someone comes along and brings it up again :eek:

curious break out the cupcakes :p ZS doesn't care!

[Bobbi]

Thank you, Dorry :). May the rest just be left... and given time. Things that will happen, will. :D.

I hope the climate of support may saturate - here.

[annie]

Please don't think I am out to get you...but what the flying hell does this have to do with anything??? Really...I just don't see why this was posted here.

...snip...

I'm also getting pissed off about the pure speculation, outright bullcrap, and obvious libel that is being spouted as pure truth.

I'm just sick and tired of people posting crap without any proof.

Typically I hold my tongue when I see stuff on the net that is just pure crap. However this time I don't feel like doing so. Somebody has to step up and correct all of the mis-information that is being posted.

It's time to stop the bs and start supporting those that need it.

spoken like a leader.

[Curious]

bravo Paula! Some want to diss the open communication, but I see BT2 blossoming into something that I personally never saw on BT1.

Bullying people to try to control threads the way one person expects them to go aren't tolerated here, which is what many of us despised about BT1.

Sorry about the dogs and cookies. When threads get tense we like to lighten them up for all our sakes. Since ZS is my bud, I figured he could handle it :p ZS and I don't agree on things some of the time, but we respect each others differences with no comment required. That's amazing to be able to say about a friend online.

ZS you are the best, and I truly appreciate you http://geocities.com/braintalkgeeks/dorry/pics/rose.gif

morning all...and even tothose in other time zones. :D

i ditto dorry. guess we know who doesn't like cookies. we'll make sure not to offer them to lighten the mood. don't like wasted cookies. ;)

i really didn't think we hyjacked zs's thread. maybe i was wrong. (((((zs)))))...i thought i was just hitch hicking a ride with a friend.

[unknown]

Now I am confused. It looks like one thread was deleted and combined at least in part with this one?????

Why?

Between the cryptic insider type messages, cookies, and now missing threads, it is very hard to follow things here.

Please explain what happened and why.

Are there now rules to this forum? Where are they?

[flowergirl]

unknown,

DocJohn wants us to keep the discussion on one thread so he pasted my thread here and deleted the original.

flowergirl

P.S. unknown, I saw your post. I was referring to something that happened before BrainTalk became a nonprofit and donations were accepted.

[unknown]

I will go back and delete the duplicate of my posting then. It doesn't make much sense the way it was moved, since the posts before it on the other thread were deleted.

I was especially curious because everyone seems to make such a big thing about moderators not moving, deleteing, etc.

[DocJohn]

I'm closing this thread as per my request to focus on growing *our* new community here now. Thank you!

John