Diet helping anyone?

[lurkingforacure]

Has anyone experienced improvement with a particular diet? I'm not talking about avoiding protein with meds, but an actual diet.

We were toying with going macrobiotic, which is very bean-grain based, and has had some pretty remarkable results in putting some folk's cancer into remission.

Then I have been reading about the diet used by parents of kids with autism, with equally fantastic results....very little bean and grain. I have always suspected a link between autism and PD, and indeed, the book I am currently reading hints at such and talks about two family trees, where if your child has a family history of the any of the diseases in these trees, they are much more likely to have a vaccine reaction (ie autism). The diseases are Alzheimers, depression, bipolar, and on and on....on the other tree are the autoimmunes like lupus, MS, fibromyalgia, etc.

If you have little kids like we do or grandkids, you might want to check into their risk for PD (or other "neuroanomolies" like ADD, autism, etc.) when combined with the now 36 shots the CDC wants our kids to get between birth and 6 years of age. Just reading the ingredients in those shots (aluminum, to name one) makes me sick, and it should be no surprise why the number of autism cases was 1 in 10,000 in 1983 (when only ten shots were required) compared to now 1 in 150 in 1008 (now 36 shots being required).

but back to diet....anyone tried one, or on one, that seems to help? thanks.

[reverett123]

I have been having a number of problems over the last couple of months culminating in an awful lot of time spent off and freezing. As in as much as eight to ten hours per day.

In casting about, I began reading about gluten and its problems. I tried a week without grains and seemed to see some improvement toward the end of the trial but was seduced by pasta at the critical moment. But I returned to the idea and began again last Friday and am in Day Five of a serious effort. I'm even keeping a log! Here are the total amount of time spent in an off state for each day so far:
Day 1: 8 hrs+
Day 2: 5 hrs
Day 3: 3.5 hrs
Day 4: 3 hrs

Day 4 might have been skewed by the fact that I woke up at 3:00 AM and couldn't get back to sleep. Got up and screwed up my schedules. Slept well last night though.

Yesterday I noted that a persistent bloating sensation was gone and that a dry skin problem under my eyeglasses was improved.

Unlike my usual experiments, I am trying not to add other variables and thus far have been successful.

Also, I should add that on Day One I was still in a phase where I was taking extra meds to cope with a shortened effective period. Have dropped back to normal dosing.

The idea is that some of us (blood type "O" in particular) are genetically unhappy with gluten, a protein found mainly in wheat, barley, and rye. We don't digest it properly. When we get under stress, have an infection, or anything else that causes the Gut Blood Barrier (GBB) to leak, these poorly digested proteins get into areas where they do not belong and upset our immune system.

If you remember Ron's bad tooth experience, an unhappy immune system is no joke. It can cause both acute effects like Ron's, but also long term auto-immune problems. The latter extreme is celiac disease, but there is a spectrum of sensitivities out here.

Some thoughts-
1- The same things that open the GBB also open the BBB and vice versa. So those proteins get into the brain as well.
2- Stress opens both gates. We know how stress affects us day-to-day. We also know that it is common for PWP to have a major stressor just before onset. And progression is often a stair-step pattern rather than an incline.
3- Variable sensitivity and random stress events could explain why some of us progress slowly while others drop like a stone. Why have my offs, for example, gotten more frequent but not more intense over the last ten years? The problem with walking is what sent me to the neuro to begin with and has not changed much. That seems odd.
4- Gluten sensitivity can cause a lot of symptoms but neurological ones in particular. In fact, I cannot find a single symptom of PD that cannot be also from GS. Even the responsiveness to levodopa!

Check this site out-
http://glutenfreeworks.com/gluten_sensitivity.php
http://glutenfreeworks.com/gluteninformation.php

Also, wander over to NeuroTalk's Celiac Forum and check out "The Gluten File".

[mrsD]

There is an excellent gluten free pasta made from brown rice.
It is actually better than wheat pasta IMO.

Tinkyada, comes from Canada and is in most health food stores.
The other pastas leave me cold. Tinkyada is always ala dente too unless hugely overcooked.

Beans have their own problems.... the lectins on some, esp the red kidney beans are not easy to tolerate for some people.

There are some excellent books about diet/disease. Ann Louise Gittleman has one called Your Body Knows Best.
And she has others. Being a dietitian she tried macrobiotic and didn't do well on it. And explains why, and explains the new research into ethnicity and food intolances. Tony D'Adamo also has Eat Right 4 Your Type. A classic that explains lectins and how some people genetically cannot handle the lectins on certain foods. Your blood type, and where you came from appear to be critical for choosing the best foods for you.

I read both books a while back...they are really fascinating!

http://books.google.com/books?id=4WyEPry13HMC&dq=Your+Body+knows+best&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=voT_ufz5lF&sig=E9_sRynOx_QPgLPH3gsfDN-yymk&hl=en&ei=_7ASSsazMNKEmQfl3JT0Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#PPR11,M1

http://books.google.com/books?id=jvyMgMec6mIC&dq=Eat+Right+4+your+type&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=czvdjA9m4v&sig=WDC2efcjY9S5rZuwX8uQSb2LSKk&hl=en&ei=ZbESSuT6HqWxmAe43NjpAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

[Heidi L]

I am desperately seeking people who will try a gluten free diet for Parkinson's.

I am convinced the disease is caused by an interaction between gluten antibodies and herpes virus infection.

The diet probably won't take away all of your symptoms without antiviral treatment but I believe it's necessary nontheless.

Please come see my research here.
www.zombieinstitute.net

Thanks,
Heidi

[leah52]

I am desperately seeking people who will try a gluten free diet for Parkinson's.

I am convinced the disease is caused by an interaction between gluten antibodies and herpes virus infection.

The diet probably won't take away all of your symptoms without antiviral treatment but I believe it's necessary nontheless.

Please come see my research here.
www.zombieinstitute.net

Thanks,
Heidi


We are eating gluten free now. It has been about 2 years now. It has made a tremendous difference. He still has all the usual symptoms, and is on the same med schedule, but the big difference we see (and it has been life changing) is that he no longer has those horrific and disabling muscle contractions in his back (you know how the muscle gets hard like a bone?... don't know what to call it. someone else called it a siezure). Even the tiny amount of gluten found in canned soup will leave him in terrible shape. We stumbled upon this quite by accident. I don't understand the science of it at all, I just know that it has made a life changing difference.

[lurkingforacure]

Rick, the book I am reading is called "Healing and Preventing Autism" by Jenny McCarthy (who healed her own son after he lapsed into autism she claims was vaccine-caused) and Dr. Jerry Kartizinel, whose fourth son became autistic afer vaccination.

It is fascinating reading, and the book is essentially an interview between McCarthy, asking questions, and Dr. Kartzinel, answering. He knows of what he speaks, as his practice focuses on these children.

From what I understand, a lot of autistic kids have a leaky gut, caused either by or aggravated by yeast overgrowth, or other things (including an inflammtory condition in the bowel...more on this later) which makes the gut even leakier. We all know what that means.

Cutting to the chase, so far the books recommends the following to help with reducing yeast in the gut (can't get rid of all of it, because all humans have some yeast in us, the problem is when the yeast population is too high)...

stop eating sugars, which only fuel the growth of more yeast, and far more quickly than the body can respond
use antifungals and probiotics
use digestive enzymes
make sure you use the restroom daily (not possible for many, but I think the point here is to be regular and avoid constipation).

Now on the bowel: I have read that a very large majority of PDers experiencing constipation prior to the typical symptom onset: to me, this supports the theory that PD actually begins somewhere other than the brain, and it is only later, when it has "spread", if you will, that the brain becomes affected and we rush to the doc.

I bring all of this up because I am thinking that if they are healing autistic kids with diet/supplements, and autism is related and/or shares many of the same core symptoms, then that same diet/supplement regime might help those with PD.

It is encouraging to read that those who have been able to get off gluten have noticed improvement...I have yet to read that anyone with PD who got off gluten did not improve in some way. Thanks to all for sharing their input.

[reverett123]

PD shares characteristics with not only autism, but also schizophrenia, bipolar, diabetes type 2, alzheimer's, and metabolic syndrome - in short, that cluster of mysteries that challenge science at the start of the 21st century. There is a connection somewhere.

One possibility is the idea that stress sensitivity increases across generations. We know that a stressed pregnant rat will give birth to a stress sensitized pup. The interesting part is that even though there is no further stress, the grandpups will also be stress sensitive. Then, even more interesting, last week there was a study showing that traumatic stress of a rat even weeks before she became pregnant affected her pups in a similar manner. Stress sensitivity builds up over the generations in a stressful society. It has to come out somewhere.

[reverett123]

...It is now nearly 7:00 PM and I have been off exactly one hour today and its depth was about half the usual. Particularly interesting was that the cognitive portion was way down.

So, over the five day period starting from a baseline of 8 to 9 hours, I have gone down as follows: 8, 5, 4, 3, 1 (rounded to nearest hour). Also the meds are working noticeably better.

Some questions-
Did gluten problems cause my PD? I don't think so, but I do believe that it made it far worse. And maybe it can cause it sometimes. Maybe Heidi is right in some cases. I don't know. But I feel good! (Now, where did I put my James Brown animated gif? :D )

[jccgf]

Worthy experiment :cool:. I'd try to stick with it for a minimun of 6 months....and it is important to be strict about it.

The case against gluten just keeps on building... starting to believe its not good for anyone... and you might want to consider dumping casein and soy as well. They also are associated with wide ranging neurological symptoms.

Good luck with your experiment!

[jccgf]

PD shares characteristics with not only autism, but also schizophrenia, bipolar, diabetes type 2, alzheimer's, and metabolic syndrome - in short, that cluster of mysteries that challenge science at the start of the 21st century. There is a connection somewhere.

One possibility is the idea that stress sensitivity increases across generations. We know that a stressed pregnant rat will give birth to a stress sensitized pup. The interesting part is that even though there is no further stress, the grandpups will also be stress sensitive. Then, even more interesting, last week there was a study showing that traumatic stress of a rat even weeks before she became pregnant affected her pups in a similar manner. Stress sensitivity builds up over the generations in a stressful society. It has to come out somewhere.

There is also an increased association between autism, schizophrenia, bipolar .... and pyroluria... a "stress" related condition. Pyroluria is also associated with gluten/casein sensitivity, seizures, and more. That just came to mind when seeing these mentioned together..not sure there is any relevance. I have a page giving resources about pyroluria in The Gluten File.

[reverett123]

I don't know if you have run into the ultra-pasteurized milks or not, but there are some serious problems there. The high temperatures mangle the proteins. Ironically, it is the organic milks that use it for the long shelf life.

Worthy experiment :cool:. I'd try to stick with it for a minimun of 6 months....and it is important to be strict about it.

The case against gluten just keeps on building... starting to believe its not good for anyone... and you might want to consider dumping casein and soy as well. They also are associated with wide ranging neurological symptoms.

Good luck with your experiment!

[reverett123]

It is 11 PM and all is well. Kind of spooky as I wait for the other shoe to drop. :D

[wendy s]

You wouldn't believe what substances contain gluten. Beware of beer, malt vinegar, candy, drinks sweetened with malt, worcestershire sauce, baking powder, glue on stamps and envelopes, soy sauce, coffee substitutes, icing sugar, salad dressings, sausages.

I've known for several years that it's wheat (gluten?) that makes me itch and break out in hives, but I'm very suspicious of what it does to my PD. I don't know for sure because I'm also sensitive to eggs, dairy, oats and soy and avoiding all that stuff is REALLY difficult. I've been using a rotation diet lately to try to improve, but I'm very susceptible to lasagna and soy yogurt. (I mean they're my favourite foods!) Sometimes I'm too hungry to have any common sense and eat everything in sight!

Reading these messages is improving my motivation to avoid these allergans!

[jccgf]

You wouldn't believe what substances contain gluten. Beware of beer, malt vinegar, candy, drinks sweetened with malt, worcestershire sauce, baking powder, glue on stamps and envelopes, soy sauce, coffee substitutes, icing sugar, salad dressings, sausages.


Gluten does hide in many places... but there are several brands of gf beer on the market now (New Grist, Red Bridge, Bard's Tale to name a few). Most soy sauce has wheat, although La Choy brand does not, and there are also several brands of gf tamari sauces (San J). Calumet, Rumford, Clabber Girl baking powders are all gluten free. But, it does take a while to figure out whether various processed foods are ok or not. Who knew there was wheat in licorice? There are plenty of gluten free candies... although sugar has its own evils. There are many gf food lists hanging around the Internet, and of course there are many online and local support groups to help.

Sticking to a mostly whole food diet is the simplest way to go... not all the specialty gluten free products are necessarily 'healthy'.... but we do enjoy some of them, some of the time. Bottom line is that it isn't really that hard to follow a gluten free/casein free diet... once you get used to it. It takes about 3 months to get into the groove of it... some adjust better than others.

[mrsD]

Some body washes and shampoos have gluten in them.
My son found some totally intolerable.

I can't remember their names however, sorry.

But if you get reactions with some topical wash/shampoo, try another.

[Fiona]

You know, while I believe you guys with the gluten sensitivity are onto something, I tried a gluten-free diet for several months and didn't seem to do anything for me.

But I think of us all looking to a particular diet to help our symptoms, or a particular food, and I say isn't it a no-brainer to basically avoid all processed foods as much as possible? Looking out for gluten if one feels one is allergic is fine, but it's pretty much accepted now that pesticides are a major cause of PD.

Hence diet protocol to me means as much as possible eating fresh, whole, certified organic food, preferably grown by somebody you know. No high-fructose corn syrup, no GMO, no ingredients your grandmother couldn't pronounce as they say......some people feel better going vegan - fine - but if we eat meat, then try to eat only organic grass-fed animals raised by someone whose methods are known to you. If eating dairy, raw milk if possible from organically grass-fed cows. Raw organic sauerkraut??? Yummm!!!!

Also soy is a big problem, unless it's a fermented product (tamari, tempeh, etc.) because it weakens the thyroid. Ever wonder why it seems like at least half the people you know are on thyroid medication now? Soy is so ubiquitous now, it's in just about any processed food from ice cream to crackers, to you just about name anything.

I know this is hard to do. I'm fortunate to have a farm share from some Mennonite farmers in my area, and it's great. And it's really not more expensive, once I cut out all the sodas, sugary drinks, processed snacks, etc. I had to learn to cook better. But better turns out to be simpler. I never eat out any more. If I occasionally taste something like fast food, the difference in quality is so huge and so instantly recognizable, I am amazed.

So, yes, special diet for PD: pesticide and additive-free as possible, with most of the nutrients left intact without ultra-pasteurization and irradiation...we live in the era of refrigeration now, so it's not like it used to be when they first made that stuff up, and if you try and eat mainly local food...

[reverett123]

First, had a relatively good day. Two offs of one hour each. First one in my lawyer's office. Little embarrassing but better than the 30 minutes three weeks ago that I spent sitting at the end of the zebra at the local WallyWorld. It's a small town and I swear half of it drove by. Heck, my next door neighbor happened by when I first froze and found me a chair.

Anyway, much improved.

I don't think that I was always gluten sensitive, at least not to this extent. But any time the BBB opened, so did the BGB. Stress opens both and the intense period I went through recently was a good opportunity to move it up a level as the protein met my immune system.

So, even though gluten was no problemo last year there's no guarantee next year.

What happens when gluten makes it past the BBB I wonder?

[mrsD]

Regarding soy... unless you eat a ton of it, I don't think it is the culprit.

When I took our cats for their rabies vaccinations, the Vet told me there is a epidemic now in cats of autoimmune disease.

I think this is connected to vaccines (one of our cats is allergic) and the wheat extenders put in cat foods.

Cats have a hyperthyroidism also, which may be linked to food and vaccines.

I think the two biggies as far as thyroid goes, are 1) environment pollutants, and 2) vaccines that some people get every year for the flu.

Women tend to develop hypothyroidism following pregnancies, and this is also thought to be connected to autoimmune issues.

The pollutants are mainly estrogenic chemicals used as fire retardants, which are leaching into our water supplies like the drug residues are.

some interesting links:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070815122354.htm

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2005/02/07/thyroid-damaging-flame-retardant-exposure-linked-to-house-dust.htm

[Fiona]

From http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm

FDA's Soy Experts Speak Out Against Soy

"there is abundant evidence that some of the isoflavones found in soy, including genistein and equol, a metabolize of daidzen, demonstrate toxicity in estrogen sensitive tissues and in the thyroid. This is true for a number of species, including humans.

Additionally, isoflavones are inhibitors of the thyroid peroxidase which makes T3 and T4. Inhibition can be expected to generate thyroid abnormalities, including goiter and autoimmune thyroiditis. There exists a significant body of animal data that demonstrates goitrogenic and even carcinogenic effects of soy products. Moreover, there are significant reports of goitrogenic effects from soy consumption in human infants and adults."

Official Letter of Protest to the FDA Letter of protest from researchers Daniel Doerge and Daniel Sheehan, two of the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) key experts on soy, to the FDA, protesting the health claims approved by the FDA on soy products"


From

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2007/09/26/oprahs-thyroid-disease-is-soy-milk-to-blame.htm

"Dr. Kaayla Daniel, author of the book, The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food, says that Oprah Winfrey's frequent consumption of soy milk and other soy products may be the cause of her recent hypothyroidism diagnosis.
Says Daniel: "Oprah has long touted the health benefits of soy, but the myth that soy is a healthy food has had tragic consequences, especially for women in the throes of menopause. The phytoestrogens found in soy products are potent inhibitors of thyroid peroxidase, the enzyme the body needs to produce the essential thyroid hormones T3 and T4...Women in mid-life are already at risk for developing thyroid problems. To make matters worse, the soy industry heavily markets soy milk and other soy products to women who are menopausal as an effective and safe method of hormone replacement therapy. The truth is that it is neither effective nor safe.”

From What's Really for Dinner?
The Truth About Commercial Pet Food
by Tina Perry
http://www.preciouspets.org/truth.htm
"Soy is another common ingredient in many pet foods. It is used by the manufacturers to boost the claimed protein content and add bulk so that when animals eat a product containing soy they will fell more sated. Tofu is suitable for humans, but most forms of soybean do not agree with a dog or cat's digestive system. Like many other pet food ingredients, soy is virtually unusable by an animal's body. Being obligate carnivores, cats have little ability to digest any nutrients from soy. "

[Fiona]

Just wanted to add, Mrs. D, that I'm not disputing at all that vaccines and flame retardants are way bad news...it just seems like there is so much stuff in our environment to be Very Concerned about. That's why I'm so into the as simple and whole as possible food thing...But there's so much stuff - plastic food packaging, Teflon-coated cookware.........aargh!!!

[mrsD]

I agree that some people go bonkers with soy.
Some Vegans depend on it. Some people eat it more than once a day.

I eat very little soy...Edamame beans occasionally, maybe once a week if that. I sometimes have some soy sauce on my sushi, but the sauce really doesn't count--one little packet a week or so.

And I have never bought foods for my cats that had soy on the labels.

I have hypothyroidism, one of my previous cats had thyroid cancer, and my middle cat is allergic and cannot have vaccines.
She has had 2 vaccine reactions, one last spring that almost killed her.

I personally think vaccines are very problematic for both pets and people. Cats now have 2 fatal diseases linked to vaccines.
1) vaccination induced sarcoma
2) kidney failure from distemper boosters.
People think they are doing the right thing getting shots for their cats and dogs every year, and those vaccines are in reality killing the animals!
We humans need to pay attention to this and look at our own
vaccines!

[Fiona]

Yes, I don't think a packet of soy sauce is a problem at all. They say that fermented soy is safe....but the problem with soy is that even if we don't think we're eating it, it's in 60 percent (at least) of processed foods at the supermarket, and restaurants use it even way more. SO we're totally not aware of how much we're consuming really. Even many "virgin olive oils", especially those from Italy, have been found to actually contain a high degree of soy oil instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An industry take on the subject:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/DuPont-Bunge+venture+sold+on+soy+protein-a0103384430

[olsen]

Soy sauce contains free glutamte--accounts for its flavor enhancing properties.

[mrsD]

Phytoestrogens are found in almost all foods and animals.
Even snails and seafoods.

They are far less potent than estrogens that mammals use.
I think it is a matter of "degree".

I personally don't agree with heavy intake of soy protein to replace animal protein. But that is my opinion. I think that the soy oil, is far less problematic than the protein portion.

[lurkingforacure]

I have been reading about the ever-increasing numbers of vaccines being "required" and firmly believe they set in motion a lot of chronic conditions, and simoulaneously do NOT confer the immunity/protections they claim. It's a bad deal all the way around. There are a lot of books out there about it, one is called "Vaccine Safety Manual" and it's a very analytical look at the various vaccines, what is in them, what they are designed to protect against, and how effective they really are historically. Every parent should read this book before they have a child.

If one really knew what was in the vaccines, they would more likely than not choose not to vaccinate their kid. Or at least wait until the child's immune system, and BBB, were fully developed (around age 6-7, to be safe), and never more than one vaccine at a time, without thimerisol, when the child was completely healthy, free of fever, etc.

I used to think it was just Big Pharma behind the vaccine push, but then realized that hey, if you dont' vaccinate your kid beginning at birth, you aren't running to the pediatrician's office several times a year, either...so I think the pediatricians are behind the greed as well. If you don't agree, just see the reaction you get from your doctor if you mention you are going to delay (or forgo completely) vaccines, OMG, it can get ugly. Just think, if you don't vaccinate the first few years of life, you don't really need to go the pediatrician AT ALL unless your child is sick, and that's a lot of revenue to miss...one or two visits, maybe, instead of ten to twelve (at $150.00 a pop!)

Pediatricians and Big Pharma both have huge incentives to keep the vaccine mill alive and going. It is like the old days of home buying: patient beware.

As for animals, I read that with great danes (we have one), they are now recommending that vaccines not be given until several weeks LATER than traditionally given, because they have found that that few weeks delay results in a significantly reduced risk of developing cancer later. I never thought about a connection between human vaccination and cancer, but clearly, if vaccines can cause cancer (or increase the risk of it) in dogs, what might they be doing to humans? I wonder.

[olsen]

re-posting:
There is a summary of 2 separate studies concerning immune cells
which has direct implication for the use of vaccines, and why they
may result in inadequate protection or in dire effects. The summary appears in New Scientist
magazine:]
http://www.wemove.org/stayconnected/article.asp?ID=1161

Seems the immune system may be a lot more flexible than previously
thought--Initially, T-helper (Th) cells were thought to be of 2
types: Th1 which sent viruses and bacteria from host cells and Th2
cells that fought parasites and bacteria in blood in other body
fluids and also fought allergens. 2 new classes of cells were
discovered: regulatory T cells (T-regs) which attenuate the immune
system response and Th17 cells that trigger inflammation and
autoimmunity. Problem with this categorization was discovered when
the T-regs behaved like Th1 cells when the T-regs cells were exposed
to the molecules that normally result in a Th response. (Immunity,
COI:10:1016/j.immuni.2008.12.009). Whoops--

In addition, study by Casey Weaver at Univ of Alabama showed
that "Th17 cells can also morph into Th1-like cells" under certain
conditions. Article concludes that "if Th1 cells are equally flexible,
vaccines may not work as they are intended, says Christopher Wilson
of the Univ of Washington State in Seattle. For instance, if a
vaccine against a virus triggers a Th1 response but the Th1 cells
change their identity for some reason, 'the pathogen might yet
subvert the protection induced by the vaccine', he says

Occurs to me that vaccines may result in immune responses in which
the correct immune cell morphs into the wrong cell--causing
inflammation or autoimmunity when none was wanted.......author cites
the safety study in which 6 individuals in Northwick park hosp in
london in March, 06 were given a drug that was to activate T-reg
cells, but instead they were made seriously ill. Perhaps the T-regs
morphed into Th17 causing an autoimmune response????

[rose of his heart]

I am not on any particular diet but probably should be. I have heard that people on CRD live longer...something about reducing oxidative stress on cells. I am likely on CRD as I have largely lost my appetite and have difficulty manipulating and swallowing my food, not to mention cooking. I have lost 30+ pounds in the last 2 years unintentionally and am a bit concerned that I will keep losing (103 lbs at 5'7"). Does anyone have any advice and/or know about CRD?

BTW, I have been reading your posts, lurkingforacure and reverett123 for months. This site ** helped me to self diagnose my PD months before a neurologist did and made me feel less alone. Thank you!

[mrsD]

Wow....olsen! What a great resource! I know someone who is having this very problem...elevated T cells. I am sending her your info! Thanks a bunch!

[reverett123]

Yesterday was another good one. Two off periods of about half an hour each. One of those my own fault for putting off breakfast.

Starting out well this morning. On in 30 minutes. No curly toes.

[lurkingforacure]

I am not on any particular diet but probably should be. I have heard that people on CRD live longer...something about reducing oxidative stress on cells. I am likely on CRD as I have largely lost my appetite and have difficulty manipulating and swallowing my food, not to mention cooking. I have lost 30+ pounds in the last 2 years unintentionally and am a bit concerned that I will keep losing (103 lbs at 5'7"). Does anyone have any advice and/or know about CRD?

BTW, I have been reading your posts, lurkingforacure and reverett123 for months. This site ** helped me to self diagnose my PD months before a neurologist did and made me feel less alone. Thank you!

So what were the symptoms that sent you to a doc in the first place, if you dont' mind my asking. And I have read some very encouraging things about CRD, in the rat studies, it seemed to reverse PD, and the protocol was eating every other day, I believe. You must have incredible discipline to be able to follow through with such a diet, impressive.

[Sasha]

I just can't let this pass entirely even though I admit that there is no doubt good reason to keep monitoring the outcomes of vaccines closely.

In the meanwhile, remember polio? Whooping cough? Small pox? Remember the millions who died of these diseases? It is naive to think that the vaccines had no role in containing these diseases and that we can possibly discontinue vaccines and continue to enjoy the level of health we currently do. Sparing ourselves the chronic conditions attributed to vaccines will bring little joy if we die prematurely of infectious disease.

Ideally we could combine the benefits of the vaccine without the purported complications...

Thanks for your consideration...

Sasha

[olsen]

reposted :
My prejudices concerning vaccines are based on the following: that 1) adult vaccines still contain thimerosal and the flu vaccines given to infants and mothers also contain thimerosal 2) too many vaccines given at one time or at times too close together; at least one, Hep B vaccine, seems unwarranted in most cases to me 3) ages at which vaccines are given are much too young--I am not anti-vaccine. i am fully aware of the achievements in publich health thru their use; I just think the way these are manufactured and the administration schedule are harmful.
Hepatitis B vaccination is begun at birth--a major goal is to protect infants of the estimated 19,000 women who have chronic hepatitis B infection. What about pre-testing pregnant women to determine if they have this chronic infection instead of administering the vaccine to all newborns? I understand the goal is to eradicate the virus worldwide; starting with vaccinating newborns is the only method considered? Transmission of the virus from caregivers could be dealt with by mandatory pre-testing all caregivers. -why should all newborns be exposed to a vaccine for an infection the odds of the majority of them having are miniscule?

i do not know the answer to this problem. ...madelyn

[girija]

Hi all!
How are you? I tried my best to stay out of this discussion about vaccines, cannot resist it anymore! I am honestly shocked when I hear a parent saying that they do not want to vaccinate their kids. But its their choice, as long as they keep their kid with an infection at home for the required period and not spread the bugs .......

I fully admit I am biased and believe in vaccinations. My bias is based on what we know at present about human biology, specially immunology. oh, one more clarification! I donot work for a big pharma nor get paid for advocating vaccines. I got into vaccine research because I believe its the only way to be free from diseases, most efficient and cost efficient way to deal with viruses and bacteria.

From tHis thread and the other discussions I have had in the past I see 4 0r 5 independent points getting mixed up in vaccines are bad discussion.

'1. Babies are too young and their immune system hasnot developed"
Immune system develops in response to challenges, sort of like the brain. Challenges in the form of vaccines (dead bugs essentiallY!) are safer than the full blown infection. In fact, acute, full blown infections and chronic, low grade infections are bad for the baby, both modes leave immune cells dysfunctional and donot give any protection. Can a baby survive a severe Rotaviral infection? Imagine the dehydration problems and kidney failures associated with it?

Vaccinating babies when they are months old is better in my opinion, because most of their immune cells are naive and respond better to antigens and they are protected for life. THe minute a baby is born, whether we like it or not, babies are getting immunized with not only pathogens but various other components of our air, water, food etc., For a baby's immune system everything it sees is "foreign" and therefore it responds.

I do agree that chemicals in the vaccines are not desirable, we can do without them. New generation of vaccines are coming out that donot need the preservative (mercury containing compound), adjuvant (Alum or aluminium) or formaldehyde. Hopefully its soon.
Recombinant vaccines and DNA vaccines are a lot cleaner and give you better efficacy.

2".in developing countries, vaccination makes a bigger impact than in developed countries at least with regards to infant mortality rate. "
In today's world there are no barriers for viruses and bacteria to travel, bugs travel without passports an visas. there may be economic barriers and walls between the countries, Example: Swine Flu

3. Vaccines are responsible for other horrible diseases
If one is not vaccinated and if this trend continues, several forgotten diseases are sure to re emerge and thats not a pleasant scene> If a disabled organism can cause so much damage to induce other diseases like cancer etc., the real on could be deadly. Within a few days after infection, some bugs are dead/dying in the body, they are taken up by macrophages and dendritic cells . and that is no different than a vaccine.
yes, there is a potential for activating the wrong type of cells with vaccines. If one is prone to more Th1 type immune responses, he or she will develop auto immune diseases even if there was no question.. Most of the vaccines that are in the market have alum=aluminium hydroxide which rarely ever promotes a Th1 response, in fact it promotes more Th2 type response
Cigerette smoke, pollutiion, pesticides, chemicals dumped in the water are more to blame for cancer aand series of auto immune disorders than vaccines

4. let nature take its course
YEs, that would be good in an ideal world where there is no pollution, we eat right , exercise, not stressed out ....... then we are on the equal footing wiht the bugs to fight the war, but until then, we need help!

5 chemicals in the vaccine are bad for you.. (this may be one point I sort of agree!)

6 .too many vaccines together: we are bombarded with hundreds of organisms every day and are either reacting to it or just ignoring it . evolution taught us how to multitask with pathogens....... other than watch the baby being fussy, I dont see any harm in it
I better stop here, already wrote a lot.
These are my thoughts on this subject, just stating strongly, no intentions of insulting or disrespecting anyone. Ultimately, any parent is doing what he/she thinks is the best for his/her child/I respect that.

Girija

[lurkingforacure]

Girlja,

I appreciate your response, especially since you come from a scientific background. While you make some good points, mostly ones that agree with my view (lol), I do disagree with others.

First, the vaccine immunity is NOT for life! All parents are told that vaccines confer lifelong immunity and that is simply not true. I have read that most folks in their thirties, and definitely by their forties, if their titres were tested, would need boosters of nearly every vaccine they had as a child! If the vaccine doesn't confer lifelong immunity, why bother?

Second, the vaccine is virus-specific, and virus mutate all the time. So the vaccine I received as a child for virus A does me no good if that virus mutates into virus B and I get it. Many of the things I was vaccinated for as a child may have mutated and I seriously doubt the pharmas are actively revising their vaccine stockpile to keep up with the changes...they have to sell the lot already manufactured as well as come up with new vaccines to sell everyone (did you know they are claiming to be working on a vaccine for Parkinson's-yet we don't know what causes it? Lovely). Just remember the flu virus, almost every year they guess the wrong strain, yet millions of folks get the flu shot. Too bad it confers no protection for the flu that year! Oh, well, big pharma says, maybe we'll get it right next year, but in the meantime, we sold ten million vials of useless flu vaccine!

Third, every "outbreak" of a disease for which a vaccination exists has included a significant portion of fully vaccinated kids. While the media is quick to latch onto the portion of kids whose "mis-guided parents" refused to vaccinate them, the reality is that in many such outbreaks, the majority of those who fell ill were vaccinated for that disease! Did the virus mutate? If so, what's the point of vaccinating? Or did the vaccine "wear off" a mere few years after vaccination, and in that case, well, I guess "lifelong immunity" wasn't achieved as represented.

Fourth, there are many diseases the risk for which is greatly diminished (or eliminated) once the baby is older than a year, two years, etc. If your child is past those ages, why bother with vaccination for that disease? I read that one Japanese doctor tells his patients that if the baby is older than one year, most of the vaccinations will not do anything to protect the baby over and above his own immune system, which has by that point been able to develop sufficiently.

Would you disagree with that line of thinking, particularly if one is lucky enough to not have to put their baby in daycare?

I have read so many, many cases of babies or toddlers who were developing perfectly until they had their vaccines. While we can poo-poo the parents' testimony for this reason or that, the videos of these children before and after vaccination cannot be interpreted any other way. There is even a senator whose own grandson was altered by vaccines, and he has been brave in speaking out about it.

I too wish they would clean up the vaccines, in terms of toxins and additives and even how they are made (monkey kidneys, who may be carrying the AIDS virus-are the labs even testing the kidneys for any virus before using them to manufacture vaccines?), reduce how many there are, increase the age at which kids receive them (why did the CDC change the time from giving vaccines from kindergarten to birth?), and test kids before vaccination to be sure they won't have any tragic adverse reaction.

It is easy to argue in favor of herd immunity until it is your child who is the lone victim damaged for life. What parent, armed with the facts, wants to take that risk? Even if you discount the baby/toddler horror stories because you cannot "be certain" they were really developing normally before vaccination, the girl teenagers whose lives have been ruined by the new cervical cancer vaccine are indisputable: twelve year old girl, star athlete, straight-A kid, in perfect health, gets the shot, within hours is sick, within days is paralized, now a vegetable or worse. Many stories like this. How can they keep recommending vaccination in general and this vaccine in particular after these developed, mature girls are so clearly adversely affected after being vaccinated? Their refusal to take this vaccine off the market and acknowledge the risks makes all vaccines suspect, in my view. And, IMHO, it is no different than when a drug maker conceals or manipulates data about the safety or efficacy of a drug/device which then ends up harming innocent people...we just had a recent thread here about this very subject. It's awful.

[girija]

Thanks! That was a quick response to my essay on vaccines! I do want to answer some of your comments

It is easy to argue in favor of herd immunity until it is your child who is the lone

I understand how horrible it feels when vaccines that are supposed to save a child destroy his/her life. Even if the chances are one in a million, there is that child and the parent wondering Why me? I feel for them, buy I am looking at those million-1 kids who are better off being vaccinated, survived deadly infections and have no vaccine related complications. I think this is where we differ, you are looking at one child and yes I am looking at the herd. I wish and hope we reach no risk only benefit stage soon.

First, the vaccine immunity is NOT for life! All parents are told that vaccines confer lifelong immunity and that is simply not true. I have read that most folks in their thirties, and definitely by their forties, if their titres were tested, would need boosters of nearly every vaccine they had as a child! If the vaccine doesn't confer lifelong immunity, why bother?


I am glad you said this, because I get a chance to give my response. If a vaccine is good, immunity generated to that vaccine is life long. Memory cells generated for a pathogen remain in the body and are constantly self renewed. they dont actively produce antibodies or cytokines unless they see the pathogen again. In the absence of exposure to say smallpox, yoour small pox specifc cells are sort of dozing off and not making antibodies to kill small pox, so titers will be low. thats the normal way. booster shots make these cellls divide and grow, make antibodies, titer is positve and every one is happy. If you ask me, I would say if a vaccine is good, 2 shots one to prime second to boost are enough for life
The techniques used for titer s are not sensitive enough to measure whats in the body


Second, the vaccine is virus-specific, and virus mutate all the time. So the vaccine I received as a child for virus A does me no good if that virus mu

true, vaccines are virus specific and a good vaccinologist will find a component of a virus that is highly critical for viral survival, hence remains the same most of the t ime. This makes the vaccinre last a life time. Most vaccines are made foor attacking the pathogen at several sites,or components for eg., A to F sites, even if A mutates B. you still have antibodies to CDEF!
Flu virus and HIV are very tricky and they mutate a lot, newer strategies for flu vaccine are in the works and they avoid those annoyinG, mutTING components is what I heard recently

Yes, i know about the vaccine for PD, may be a bit ambitious at this point, I agree with you. But the strategy is not bad, its targeted to modified alpha synuclein. It may work~

Getting a vaccine to clinical trials is a huge task, believe me FDA is pretty good! they ask for a lot of info. Well atleast from the small companies, may be not from big pharma!!!!!!

Its pretty late should get some sleep,,,
thanks for a good discussion.

Girija






,

[rose of his heart]

So what were the symptoms that sent you to a doc in the first place, if you dont' mind my asking. And I have read some very encouraging things about CRD, in the rat studies, it seemed to reverse PD, and the protocol was eating every other day, I believe. You must have incredible discipline to be able to follow through with such a diet, impressive.
I wouldn't call it discipline; I've just had no appetite and/or eating takes too much effort. It would actually be easier for me to eat every other day than daily! But my loss of appetite got me thinking...maybe it is the body knowing how to protect itself when disease strikes, trying to increase longevity by reducing intake. Any thoughts on this?