article about Vitamin D and mental health

[Mari]

Hi,

If taking Vit D or getting sunshine helps ameliorate depression, then good.
I can't ingest vit D -- interferes with my Verapamil -- will have to come up with a plan involving sunshine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/therese-borchard/vitamin-d-and-mental-heal_b_211636.html
Vitamin D and Mental Health


In all this time, I have not seen one nutritional supplement that has the power to affect human health as much as vitamin D. This is because Vitamin D is not actually a vitamin - it is a hormone that has the ability to interact and affect more than 2,000 genes in the body.




1. Epidemiological evidence shows an association between reduced sun exposure and mental illness.
2. Mental illness is associated with low 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] levels.
3. Mental illness shows a significant comorbidity with illnesses thought to be associated with vitamin D deficiency.
4.Theoretical models (in vitro or animal evidence) exist to explain how vitamin D deficiency may play a causative role in mental illness.
5. Studies indicate vitamin D improves mental illness.

[waves]

Vitamin D supports absorption/utilization of both Magnesium and Calcium. Zinc too. And probably other stuff i don't even know.

Vit D and the B complex of vitamins, plus C, E and Zinc all sort of work together...

Interestingly, many people with mental health issues have been found Mg deficient, Zn deficient, or to require greater amounts of these two elements. My source is a book which is in the cellar so... sorry, no citation. However, fyi, I do recall that it did NOT state whether these assessments were based on medicated or unmedicated population.

Now, as we all know, some of our medication (eg Depakote, which I take) causes more rapid elimination of certain elements. I for instance take Selenium and Zinc supplements - but these also contain all the complementary nutrients in proportions needed for the utilization of the minerals by the body. Including Vitamin D for the Zinc supplement.

Anyway, the point is, no single vitamin or mineral stands alone... in general. There are very complex relationships between them, one facilitates absorption of the other... two or more in a certain proportion may be needed to the body to utilize yet another...

An example, a classic B2 deficiency symptom is cracking at the sides of the mouth. But a person with this may actually be deficient in another B vitamin needed for proper activation of B2. (I think B1 and B6 are both implicated, best i recall :o sorry - book in cellar. :o) Similarly Zinc deficiency symptoms may be due to the element not being processed properly, due to a deficiency not in Zinc supply, but in B complex, vit C, D or E. Indeed, any of these deficiencies may manifest in skin problems such as atopical eczema.

Magnesium deficiency - or deficiency in its "collaborative nutrients" can manifest, for example, in jitteriness, tics and "startle syndrome."

No single supplement is a substitute for a healthy diet (best source of nutrients, not pills). Our foods often contain naturally complementary elements. Yes, moderate sunshine too, in the case of Vitamin D (i know too many ppl developing melanomas right now... :eek: :( so not touting sunshine much).

I feel that supplementation should be used mostly when it is known that one has a deficiency or greater requirement due to any factors such as medication, smoking, high alcoholic consumption, stress, genetics etc. Also, supplementation, imho, should not, except where clinically necessary, cover 100% of the requirement, but simply bolster one's nutritional status to the appropriate degree - it should supplement the diet... as the name implies.

But no single nutrient stands alone.

~ waves ~

[mrsD]

Please watch this new video based on the newest research about Vit D.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread92116.html

The type of Vit D you make from sun exposure is the same found in a D3 supplement. Good exposure to sun can make 10,000IUs.
That is typically more than most oral forms.

[waves]

I watched the vid. Very interesting. I had labs only 2 weeks ago, so i can't have them again probably for a year (am not in US). :( I will check the amount in my supplements at least, for now. And i did have a level check a few years ago... that is my only reference.

I don't get much sunshine. I did not know it was not available in food in "reasonably eatable" daily quantity, even though i knew sunlight was the best source.

Also, i hope it is alright... i am going to quote your original post - from the Nutritional Forum thread, into BJ's biopsy thread for her. I think she could use this info... like ASAP.

thanks again

~ waves ~

[mrsD]

The warnings about Vit D and verapamil are directed to its use for cardiac issues and blood pressure, both require careful dosing.

I don't know if the same restrictions pertain to use for neuro issues. It may be that some decrease in verapamil effect occurs but is too small to impact its use for headache prevention or bipolar. I think the only way one will discover this is by some experimentation. Some drugs doses given are arbitrary. Dr. Jay Cohen explains that he feels many drugs are given in doses that may be too large for the desired effects. His book on Statins goes into FDA and drug company choices for drugs in detail.
You can read about this controversy here:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/406814
Doses Too High: Adverse Effects, Poor Adherence

Cohen's basic finding builds on his own previous work as well as that of Carl Peck, MD, of Georgetown University's Center for Drug Development Science in Washington, D.C. It is also in line with goals of the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ) for hastening the adoption of new medical information by physicians in practice.

Cohen found too-high doses in the PDR for antihypertensive medications as well as a broad array of other cardiovascular and psychotherapeutic medications (see tables on pages 8 and 9). "Because the PDR was originally developed as a promotional device," Cohen concluded, "there is no mechanism by which all clinically relevant dose-response data or important postrelease discoveries are regularly and rapidly incorporated into it." In his first paper, published March 26 in Archives, Cohen compared PDR doses with those recommended in the Sixth Report of the Joint National Committee on the Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Pressure (JNC VI), and found PDR doses too high in 82% of 45 medications. In the April 9 issue, he reported on a search of the medical literature in which he found "lower, effective doses for 48 major medications."

It could be that the doses of verapamil used for bipolar might not significantly be altered by Vit D. That would have to be titrated to the individual patient.

[Mari]

The warnings about Vit D and verapamil are directed to its use for cardiac issues and blood pressure, both require careful dosing.

I don't know if the same restrictions pertain to use for neuro issues. It may be that some decrease in verapamil effect occurs but is too small to impact its use for headache prevention or bipolar. I think the only way one will discover this is by some experimentation.

Thank you Mrs. D.

When I take calcium supplements beyond a small daily amount, the Verapamil loses its effectiveness and I suffer from increased anxiety.
I figured that vit D might be similiar.
I have abundant here sunshine so I can go outside if I plan for it.
M.

[mrsD]

The Vit D your skin makes is the same as the supplement.

In fact your skin can make MORE than you realize.

The only thing I can think of is that by increasing your serum level of Vit D, you increase the ABSORPTION of calcium from the lining of the intestines. It is the calcium that may interact with the verapamil.

[befuddled2]

All very interesting. I would like to add that since I have moved away from my flower garden I have not felt as good mentally. Perhaps just the sunshine I'd get while working in my garden helped along with the walks I usually take.

Barbara

[Mari]

The Vit D your skin makes is the same as the supplement.

In fact your skin can make MORE than you realize.

The only thing I can think of is that by increasing your serum level of Vit D, you increase the ABSORPTION of calcium from the lining of the intestines. It is the calcium that may interact with the verapamil.

Hi,

I'm due for yearly fasting blood work at my internist's so I intend to ask for a vit D level.

If I need more D, I will let the internist and psychiatrist work out how much I need to take without interfering with my Verapamil or my stability.

My sis recently got blood work back regarding vitamin D serum levels. Her mdoc told her she was "low" and to take extra 400 to 600 IUs of vit D a day. (?!)

M.

[mrsD]

400 to 600IUs? not gonna happen.

Send her the video I posted here.

The doctors are testing for this, but there seems to be a huge misunderstanding regarding treatment.

The reason? Well, doctors basically only get drug information now from sales reps. It is fairly rare for them to go on the internet or search for themselves.

Since Vit D3 is not patentable, no drug company is pushing it.
It is up the individuals to take control of their own bodies in this regard. Even the only Vit D on RX is ergocalciferol, and it is not adequate either. (but some doctors still think it is).

[waves]

Mrs D,

if you were aware of how bad the testing (lab) restrictions and even the albeit "arbitrary" RDA requirements are in Europe... at in least this country...

I think you would faint.

And unfortunately many doctors here are still revered almost like shamans (and think they deserve no less!) Older/mid-aged patients do the required revering and uphold their shamanistic delusions! And with state medical care, one often cannot change doctor (i have no open options, for instance).

Also showing them "American" literature is the last thing they respond to. It is like they are insulted... suddenly all the research in the US is about money and sales (like here it isn't!!! :rolleyes: hello???) so the claim is US medical procedures are "exaggerated" and testing is "superfluous." It makes me want to blow gaskets!!! :mad:

Then, when you are 50 they may suddenly ask if you have a "history" of high this or that! Go figure! How can you have a "history" of something when they never test anything because it isn't "necessary!" I am lucky I have old labs because I had regular checkups from living in the US most of my life. As for here...

I do have one ace up my sleeve. My pdoc is very "collaborative" with my requests and suggestions on testing or treatment. He actually values the fact that i research what i can and participate in these forums. SOOOOO.... I think he is going to be the key in getting my Dr to order the D3 testing for me.

You know, my last PCP would refuse abjectly to do a cholesterol split calculation (HDL/LDL) just because my total is below 200 (state guidelines for (not) prescribing the test)! When i was in the US, they ALWAYS split it! I feel i should track it, because my LDL has a history of being on the high side, and my HDL only barely adequate, with rare exception. But NOOOOOOOO. To do that, i would need to "maintain" my cholesterol above 200 :eek: to earn the right to have the HDL/LDL split! How crazy is that? Prevention, anyone?

Now, if a specialist (eg pdoc) requests a lab... it can be justified as testing for medication side effects - that is how i can force the PCP's hand. Of course, next time i won't have a problem on chol. coz my total came out 212 :(, of which LDL 142! :(:( That was one of the many reasons the exercise was so important at this point... i am on a tailored diet as well, but with exercise would be better.

Anyway hopefully the vitamin D testing will not be so tedious to get included, with the next round of labs through my pdoc, if nothing else. THANK GOODNESS!!! :) Meanwhile i am going to have to hunt for a serious supplement - might as well - last baseline years ago was low, and no doctor even noticed.

Thanks again for that info! :) I downloaded the chart, too.

~ waves ~

[Mari]

Yes,
I did send my sis the video a few days ago.

She has started getting more sunshine (40% of body uncovered in middle of the day) as the video instructs.
M.

[mrsD]

There is a video on Vitamin D from Australia...would that help?

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/thread81900.html

[waves]

Thank you. Does it provide any additional information? If so, i shall look at it also, just for educational purposes.

As far as justifying testing, nothing i say and no external research i present will make any difference. Not even local research - while that would not be snubbed, it is the whole state system which restricts testing. So reallly a PCP's hands are tied.

Now the "reverence of doctors" and the shamanistic delusions of doctors in general is a cultural thing which is slow but gradual decline, thankfully. Hopefully together with the snubbing of foreign studies. (Possibly, EU studies might not be snubbed, but there is still the doc doesn't welcome "patient presenting information" concept.)

I will bypass the state limits via my pdoc who can request tests given he is a specialist and i take a bunch of meds too. Whether the meds are linked to the test or not, I think he will help/write the request. And that is all the PCP needs. My pdoc is a rarity: receptive, collaborative and welcoming of information - especially US - as long as the source is bona fide. And by now, he trusts my sources as bona fide.

But for my info, is there additional info in the australian info that i would benefit from?

~ waves ~

[mrsD]

No actually the newer video is better, more complete.

I'd say if you are refused testing you should start at 2000IU D3 to see how you do.

If you see a little improvement, but not much, raise to 4000IU.
I am not comfortable above 4000IU however without testing.

[billie]

[QUOTE=Mari;536395]Hi,

If taking Vit D or getting sunshine helps ameliorate depression, then good.
I can't ingest vit D -- interferes with my Verapamil -- will have to come up with a plan involving sunshine.


Thank You, Mari for that valuable information! Incidentally, what is Verapamil? Would the sublingual variety of Vitamin D circumvent the problem with ingestion of vit D? Thanks again.

[waves]

Hi Billie :)

If taking Vit D or getting sunshine helps ameliorate depression, then good.
...
Thank You, Mari for that valuable information! Incidentally, what is Verapamil? Would the sublingual variety of Vitamin D circumvent the problem with ingestion of vit D? Thanks again.

Verapamil is a medication used for cardiac problems, hypertension, but has an alternative use as a mood stabilizer.

As to the question on sublingual vitamin D - no, that would not solve the problem, Billie. MrsD explains it in an earlier post in this thread, so i will cite her:

The Vit D your skin makes is the same as the supplement.

In fact your skin can make MORE than you realize.

The only thing I can think of is that by increasing your serum level of Vit D, you increase the ABSORPTION of calcium from the lining of the intestines. It is the calcium that may interact with the verapamil.

Ask away if you need further help. :)

And welcome to the forum, by the way!

~ waves ~

[Mari]

HI,

On Tuesday I saw my blood work from a month ago.
My D levels are so low they are off the chart. :eek:

The internist told me to take 1000 IU day.
When I came home I saw her handwritten notes on the photo copies of blood work that said 2000 IU a day.

I mentioned that D will interfere with the Verapamil.
She said to take it at a different time of day. HELLO?!
That does not make sense.
I might have to check with pdoc.
But I really don't want to deal with him again until Jan when I have the next appt.



From my readings, I think I need more than 2000 a day.

. . . a little overwhelmed thinking about this.


I suppose that I could raise the Verapamil dose to offset the D.
'Will need to check with pdoc.
But this seems like it might require some trial and error.
Darn. Not in the mood to deal with thinking about stuff.

M.

[mrsD]

Please read this:

http://books.google.com/books?id=49kLK--eumEC&pg=PA489&lpg=PA489&dq=verapamil+interaction+Vitamin+D&source=bl&ots=gjjctqxxbd&sig=5KCZqO_bipmctOCWyeyAHN1lHlA&hl=en&ei=pq_hSoj7D47aNpzOrLUB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CB8Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=verapamil%20interaction%20Vitamin%20D&f=false

If you Google "Vitamin D bipolar" there are many hits for this combo.

I say, start at 2000IU daily, and see if it affects your Verapamil.
It may not. If the D helps your bipolar, you may be able to stop the Verapamil in time. I don't think the mechanism of how Verapamil works in the brain is well understood. For all we know the Vit D may not interfere there the same way, like it may do in the blood vessels and heart. This interaction is vague to begin with.

If your test didn't even rate the lowest reading????? I'd be concerned for your future and longevity!

[Mari]

nd heart. This interaction is vague to begin with.

If your test didn't even rate the lowest reading????? I'd be concerned for your future and longevity!

Dear Mrs. D,

The lab reports has a half page of stuff.
Here is the summary:

Reference Range: 20-100
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total 13L

Thanks.
M.

[waves]

If i'm reading this right... you're low.

Reference Range: 20-100
Vitamin D, 25-OH, Total 13L

I think the after the 13 stands for LOW, which makes sense because 13 is less than 20, which is the minimum end of the acceptable reference range given.

(the L is not a unit of measure because L is the abbreviation for Liter and we do not have Liters of vit. D in circulation. An appropriate unit of measure would be, for instance, mcg/L.)

hope that helps.

~ waves ~

[mrsD]

There are some posters on MS who have tested in the single digits!

High dose Vit D is being used for MS patients now. And I mean high dose:

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis/news/20090428/high-doses-vitamin-d-cut-ms-relapses

The upper safety limit is being changed to 10,000 IU daily of D3.
This is based on the studies on normal people who took 10,000 IUs for 3 months and had no negative effects.

The potential for hypercalcemia is what to look for as far as side effects. 2000 IU is the amount suggested today, for those who do not have blood testing.

I am taking 4000 IU daily except for the high summer months.

You can read more at
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/
and
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/mentalIllness.shtml

[waves]

bumpity bump bump.