Are we there yet?

[ol'cs]

http://stemcellofamerica.com/stem-ce...nsons-disease/

anybody gone for this?

I inquired and they phoned me back, but i am reticent to put any hope into this as they are apparently using fetal cells and delivery is questionable. The video could be any one of us who miraculously responds to sinemet, even if only for a few hours at a time. I am in disbelief at the time it has taken for the medical research community to create a viable cell replacement therapy for all kinds of tissue damage. The theory is that this should not be an insurmountable task. So where and when can i go for a shot of new dopaminergic precursor neurons? Why o why are researchers not concentrating on this approach? Its s no-brainer!

[sim00]

Hi Ol'cs,
what do you think about this? http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...light=prosavin

Watching the video the results seems very encouraging, and only a single injection is sufficient. Excellent recent reports on its safety and tolerability, with good improvements in motor functions. For me, at this moment, it seems to me the best way to try.

http://news.sky.com/story/9567/revol...for-parkinsons

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/0...inson-disease/


http://www.oxfordbiomedica.co.uk/page.asp?pageid=29

http://www.oxfordbiomedica.co.uk/use...m%20Report.pdf

ProSavin® is safe, well-tolerated and mediates long-term improvement of motor function
ProSavin® has demonstrated a long-term safety profile, now over five years post-treatment for the first
patient treated with a 1x dose, and the Company now has a total of approximately 38 patient years of
safety data for the ProSavin® clinical programme. All 15 patients treated demonstrated an
improvement in motor function at the six-month efficacy endpoint relative to baseline. In addition, all
six patients who received the highest (5x) dose have now completed follow-up assessments 12
months post-treatment where ProSavin® continues to mediate improvements in motor function.
Non-clinical programme for product optimisation on track
Oxford BioMedica is currently evaluating a more potent formulation to ensure the greatest chance of
success in future randomised studies and to increase the commercial opportunity by offering
extended patent protection and a relative reduction in cost of goods. The Company initiated a nonclinical
programme in H1 2012 to evaluate the efficacious dose range of the enhanced product
construct using the gold standard MPTP model of Parkinson’s disease. The non-clinical programme
will evaluate improvements in motor function, in addition to Positron Emission Tomography (PET)
data to assess dopaminergic activity. Progress is on track and Oxford BioMedica expects early data
to start to emerge from Q4 2012 onwards which the Company will share with potential partners. The
full non-clinical programme is expected to complete in Q3 2013.

[pwpboy]

Sim00, yes, the results are very interesting. But pay attention, prosavin is not a cure at all. The only thing it does, is make dopamine producing cells in your brain. But the degenerative process continues and you don't get new neurons.

In my honest opinion the results of BrainStorm Cell Therapeutics are much more promising. They insert stemm cells in the brain that release neurotrophic factors. Neurotrophic factors cure sick neurons, generate new neurons and scientist also think they are even capable of unfolding the PD protein attacking your neurons.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86M02X20120723

[sim00]

Originally Posted by pwpboy

Sim00, yes, the results are very interesting. But pay attention, prosavin is not a cure at all. The only thing it does, is make dopamine producing cells in your brain. But the degenerative process continues and you don't get new neurons.

In my honest opinion the results of BrainStorm Cell Therapeutics are much more promising. They insert stemm cells in the brain that release neurotrophic factors. Neurotrophic factors cure sick neurons, generate new neurons and scientist also think they are even capable of unfolding the PD protein attacking your neurons.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86M02X20120723

Hi Pwpboy, I'm completely agree with you: stem cells probably will be gold standard treatment for the next future, but this kind of process is not completely developed to date. Moreover I think, until the cause of PD will not revealed completely, stem cells will not survive for a long time, inside the brain. Scientists need to aim to remove alpha-synucleine (for example) or other genes that are mutated or that are not correctly working (etc.).

Only for this reason, I think that gene therapy, is a realistic opportunity, at this moment, to turning back clock 10 years. Yes, this is not the definitve cure, but a sort of trick, to go ahead. (Like DBS surgery).


p.s.:sorry if I wrote with some mistakes.

[pwpboy]

Sim00, you are right that prosavin is interesting and promising. On the other hand, I must say I don't agree with your point of view regarding stem cells. You are right when you say these stem cells will get attacked. But that's why after 3-6 months a new injection of stem cells is needed. If you keep getting stem cell treatments, it will keep your brain "healthy". By the way, with gene therapy, are you sure the genetic modified cells don't die in the toxic PD brain ?

Besides this, I also think that the stem cell path has extra advantages. People with PD can get dementia. The prosavin approach is not disease-modifying which means it will not avoid PD dementia. However, stem cells releasing neurotrophic factors probably will be disease-modifying and could therefore postpone and even avoid PD dementia. I guess stem cells can even be inserted in the region where PD dementia occurs and also heal the neurons there. So honestly, I do see a bright future for stem cells in PD. The only issue I see is that you have to do brain surgery at periodic intervals. But I guess this is also the case for prosavin and other gene therapies.

You are right, it is not completely developed. But neither is prosavin. Prosavin is in clinical phase II right now. But stem cells are not far behind. They are in clinical phase II for ALS.

[soccertese]

there was some success in foetal transplants but moral objections and some patients becoming much worse halted the research. transplanted neurons appear to survive according to this 2008 paper.

http://neuroregeneration.org/Mendeze...08-journal.pdf

ceregene is doing gene therapy to rescue neurons
http://www.ceregene.com/clinical.asp

of course there was the AMGEN GDNF trial that was cancelled amidst a lot of controversy, a lot of patients claimed miraculous recovery while on the drug.

LEVESQUE did an autologous stem cell implant with 1 patient with good results and then failed to commercialize the procedure.
http://www.neurogeneration.com/pdf/Levesque-MS.pdf

ceregene hopefully will have decent results. as someone with advanced pd, i can't wait for the "cure", i'll take anything that will reduce my need for constant meds and doesn't require a DBS.

there have been at least 5 treatments involving implants that had great phase I results but didn't get past phase2. GDNF, SPHERAMINE, NEUOLOGIX, are 3 i can think of. so i take all these reports with a grain of salt.

[ol'cs]

Gene therapy was also expected to have advanced well beyond where it lies today. The problems were apparent in early trials where they were deemed failures. The reason why they have not advanced aggressively in this field quite possibly do with "epigenetics", which simply means that things happen when you take DNA out of its " in vivo" environment,m then attempt to modify and or manipulate it for reintroduction into another organism. Things like loss of control over what one expects their experiments to yield. It is notoriously difficult to grow human cells in vitro, as definitive, specialized cells which can divide a controlled number of times without becoming foreigners and thus attacked by our immune systems. There is less of an immune response in the brain which, if it wasn't protected from the world by the meninges, could respond better to the right cell grafting, and predictably, like skin grafts do. What we ask is a tall order for scientists to dream up, but i still think that it can be done; and quite easily and timely too! This, to me, is another one of those mysteries in life, things that one can never grasp.
We should also, by now, be a peaceful species that is not on a logarithmic time scale to its own demise. I guess all our saviors are busy , or something like that?
o. btw, we all must have checked out the survival stats on the first pd victims treated with human fetal cells (the early Swedish studies, well over 30 years ago), plus there are reports of other more contemporary studies {1990s, etc.), and even the potential use of pig neuron grafting, 1997! ( http://www.nature.com/nm/web_specials/xeno/review.html). Apparently, we just are not there yet, in terms of safety, cost, and many other considerations; if we were, i am sure that a lot of us would be doing a lot better than we are at present.cs

[ol'cs]

as a source of implantable stem cells. But i am still suspect about why their "clinic" is in Mexico. Weve heard of the bogus clinics down there who claim to treat cancer and other victims with a terminal disease.

[pwpboy]

Originally Posted by soccertese

there was some success in foetal transplants but moral objections and some patients becoming much worse halted the research. transplanted neurons appear to survive according to this 2008 paper.

What in fact do people mean with transplanted neurons ? Does that really mean that they open someones brain and insert full grown dopamine producing neurons in the area in the brain where dopamine neurons are located ? Or do they insert stem cells in that area and they grow into dopamine neuron ? The first option looks really scary.

[soccertese]

Originally Posted by pwpboy

What in fact do people mean with transplanted neurons ? Does that really mean that they open someones brain and insert full grown dopamine producing neurons in the area in the brain where dopamine neurons are located ? Or do they insert stem cells in that area and they grow into dopamine neuron ? The first option looks really scary.

they transplanted brain tissue from aborted fetuses and must have somehow isolated the dopamine neurons.
they have tried transplants from pigs.
when they worked, the mendez transplants worked very well and survived from what i understand. i think he transplanted into two parts of the brain as compared to the colorado work.

http://neuroregeneration.org/Parkins...20patients.pdf

i posted this as some evidence that implanted cells can function for years.

i have no idea what MENDEZ is doing right now.