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Thoracic Outlet Syndrome Thoracic Outlet Syndrome/Brachial Plexopathy. In Memory Of DeAnne Marie.

Low birth weight & early social stress increase TOS risks ? A theory

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Unread 11-27-2012, 04:34 PM   #21
boytos
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Botox is the graal, but it last only 3 months.

So close but so far at the same time
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Unread 11-27-2012, 10:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspennyloafer View Post
Also there'd be a higher success rate with surgery if tos were strictly anatomical
Outcomes (rates of success) of surgeries is based on the patient getting better from surgery.

That being said, no doctor in his right mind would say it's a 100% chance you'd be better post surgery. That's occupational suicide.

If the TOS caused nerve damage there won't be 100% success. It may help a lot but not 100%. Too many people go into surgery wanting to be like they were before surgery and it just isn't always possible. One must lower their expectations of the outcome of TOS surgery and take what they can get. I had all 3 in both arms. It helped the vascular part of my symptoms, but my nerve damage was too great and it helped relieve that too but still maybe 60% better but I'll take it. No problem.

But you can't connect (you can if you want I guess) scientifically the damage done to nerves and muscle from TOS to having thyroid problems or metabolic problems.

I have hypothyroid. It has NOTHING to do with TOS. It's not related to causes of TOS. If it were that simple why is it that none of the top TOS doctors agree that it is?

Also, if it were that simple as what's being posted in many posts for many years, the people posting this should contact these doctors and give them their ideas. It would go no where. Sorry folks but that's how science is and the human body.

Like I said it's a 1/2 glass full or 1/2 glass empty view. I view things as 1/2 full. I had TOS, got surgery, and was extremely happy with being 80% better vascular and 60% better in the muscle and nerve area.

It's just a matter of what one wants to except with whatever condition they are dealing with.
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Unread 11-28-2012, 04:36 AM   #23
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i agree with you for hypothyroid
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Unread 11-28-2012, 08:59 AM   #24
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it is very important to know why in my view because tos is not the only disease of the world.
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Unread 11-28-2012, 12:57 PM   #25
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well my n=1

my ribs used to be jacked up to my ears and my ribs burned, my spine burned, scalene spasms, my entire tos area was on fire from nerve damage. i started taking magnesium for a deficiency and all of those strange sx started disappearing. YES TOS SYMPTOMS. vascular tos is a different issue, if i had vascular tos i would probably get the surgery and cross my fingers.

correcting things like this (for ntos) will help repair nerve damage which will promote healing, absorption of nutrients, etc etc.

(side note, people with thyroid problems are more likely to have raynaud's which mimics tos..but def not vascular tos)

i dont disagree with boytos trying to figure out the whys although i do disagree with his theory on low cortisol. i've read quite a bit about "adrenal fatigue"

i am guessing most people here do not actually have "inflammation" feel free to disagree with me though, if you all have high hs-crp levels and cardiovascular disease
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Unread 11-28-2012, 01:05 PM   #26
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if you have pain you have inflammation

unless it is only central like amputation
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Unread 11-28-2012, 02:36 PM   #27
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Stress can change a huge number of things and this is well known in science and medicine.

@zerodgirl, if you do have 2 science degrees and work in research, then it will not take you long to learn about the effects of stress on the body which can include:

-- increased muscle tone, muscle spasms and muscle pain
-- increased cardiovascular risk
-- stomach upset
-- ... and much more

The first on that list is the most relevant in my opinion.

My claims about stress can be verified:

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/e...s-on-your-body

https://www.google.com/search?q=effe...ss+on+the+body

Btw I love science and value research, but one area where these often fall short in my opinion is the failure to recognize connections between the elements studied. The body is an integrated mesh of brain, nerves, muscles and organs, and as if that wasn't messy enough, there's a bunch of hormones sloshing around.

Re: "TOS is a muscle and skeletal issue", it most certainly is on the surface, but that doesn't mean it isn't downstream to other issues like chronic muscle spasms which in turn could be downstream to other issues like nutritional deficiencies and stress.

If science is the pursuit of knowledge, it is interesting to ask why some people have severe, chronic scalene muscle spasms while others do not. Right?

Re: "The WHY really isn't going to help. The HOW ..." ... I'm surprised a scientist would say that. Of course, I want to know the WHY. I have been wanting to know WHY's since I was a kid for just about everything. No one has ever talked me out of wanting WHYs, though people occasionally try.

My post here is not meant to defend boytos' speculations. It's meant to argue against the overly broad counterarguments that we shouldn't learn, explore, speculate, share ideas, etc.

There is still much to be learned about TOS.
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"Thanks for this!" says:
jkl626 (11-28-2012), mspennyloafer (11-28-2012)
Unread 11-28-2012, 02:39 PM   #28
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@zerodgirl, here's a more direct reference regarding the relationship of stress and TOS:

Quote:
The patient psychological status may sometimes play an important role in the development of the syndrome: stress and depression can lead to chronic muscle spasm in the neck region and there to decompensation of a previously asymptomatic predisposing anatomy.
The source is an MD in the Department of Neurosurgery at CHU Liege who was previously a peripheral nerve fellow at LSUMC:

http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/neur...enter/TOS.html

TOS is multi-faceted. Like many health problems.
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Unread 11-28-2012, 02:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boytos View Post
it is very important to know why in my view because tos is not the only disease of the world.
Even without concern for other diseases, it's important to know why because "knowing why" has a history of improving prevention, treatment choice and efficacy of treatment for any medical condition to which "knowing why" is applied.
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Unread 11-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boytos View Post
if you have pain you have inflammation

this is completely false

anyone who thinks they have the inflammation they mention that's related to cvd and stress can order the test here

https://www.econolabs.com/product_p/lc-120766.htm

ive had mine checked a bunch (even when i had ZERO magnesium) and it was always low.
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