Go Back   NeuroTalk Support Groups > Health Conditions M - Z > Parkinson's Disease

Parkinson's Disease Tulip

Faecal transplant eases symptoms of Parkinson's

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 02-05-2011, 03:37 AM   #1
kenki
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 26
Default Faecal transplant eases symptoms of Parkinson's

Has anyone seen this? Comments and advice would be gratefully received:

http://natmednews.posterous.com/faec...s-of-parkinson

Also you can do a Google Search using the term "faecal transplant" for more surprises

Kenki
kenki is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Aunt Bean (02-15-2011)
Unread 02-06-2011, 05:21 AM   #2
johnt
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stafford, UK
Posts: 609
Default

Thanks for raising this.

I thought the article in New Scientist was important. So, I was suprised to get no response when I posted on the issue two weeks ago.

IF (and I repeat IF) the cause of PD is toxins produced by an individual's specific gut micro-flora, then changing this offers, at the least, the possibility of a decrease in the rate of progression. As a partial measure it might reduce constipation.

Given the number of dopaminergic neurones in the gut and the connection between the enteric nervous system and the brain, the hypothesis would explain both the motor and non-motor symptoms of PD and the progression of symptoms (Braak).

Unfortunately, I could find little in the literature to add to that in the article.

A less radical approach would be to try to alter one's gut micro-flora by diet. Is this possible?

As a simple test I've tried drinking a litre of homemade probiotic yogurt a day for a week, but I've found no difference in symptoms. Are there more direct tests to detect changes that you can do at home (e.g. microscope)?

John
johnt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2011, 08:21 AM   #3
kenki
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 26
Default Faecal transplant eases symptoms of Parkinson's

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnt View Post
Thanks for raising this.

I thought the article in New Scientist was important. So, I was suprised to get no response when I posted on the issue two weeks ago.

IF (and I repeat IF) the cause of PD is toxins produced by an individual's specific gut micro-flora, then changing this offers, at the least, the possibility of a decrease in the rate of progression. As a partial measure it might reduce constipation.

Given the number of dopaminergic neurones in the gut and the connection between the enteric nervous system and the brain, the hypothesis would explain both the motor and non-motor symptoms of PD and the progression of symptoms (Braak).

Unfortunately, I could find little in the literature to add to that in the article.

A less radical approach would be to try to alter one's gut micro-flora by diet. Is this possible?

As a simple test I've tried drinking a litre of homemade probiotic yogurt a day for a week, but I've found no difference in symptoms. Are there more direct tests to detect changes that you can do at home (e.g. microscope)?

John
This is from a clinician who specialises in treating Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Will this help?


See

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Faecal_bacteriotherapy

Thanks John

Kenki



It would only be worth considering if you had no bacteroides........
kenki is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2011, 11:17 AM   #4
lindylanka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,270
Default

Perhaps it also answers some questions on the increase in people with PD, including the younger people. Perhaps the overuse of antibiotics has contributed to this...

An interesting study, but perhaps it touches on some taboos that people are unwilling to discuss? Maybe one reason why no responses.......

Lindy
lindylanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2011, 06:24 PM   #5
reverett123
In Remembrance
 
reverett123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,772
My Mood:
Default We have to get past religion

"Many religious people believe the feacus to have a soul and US tax dollars will not be spent upon their destruction.......? What?? Oh. Never mind.... " Roseanne Roseanna Danna

OK, I'll be serious. This is an interesting way to account for the anecdotes of symptoms disappearing within days of starting an antibiotic only to return upon cessation.

It also provides an alternative look at the work of Dobbs and others which shows an improvement in PD upon the eradication of H pylori. It may not be the HP at all.

There are some pretty powerful probiotics out there. Jarrow makes a particularly strong one. I wonder if just introducing known beneficial microbes would have effect....?
-Rick

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindylanka View Post
Perhaps it also answers some questions on the increase in people with PD, including the younger people. Perhaps the overuse of antibiotics has contributed to this...

An interesting study, but perhaps it touches on some taboos that people are unwilling to discuss? Maybe one reason why no responses.......

Lindy
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
reverett123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2011, 10:33 PM   #6
lurkingforacure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,297
Default You have not tried that yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reverett123 View Post
"Many religious people believe the feacus to have a soul and US tax dollars will not be spent upon their destruction.......? What?? Oh. Never mind.... " Roseanne Roseanna Danna

OK, I'll be serious. This is an interesting way to account for the anecdotes of symptoms disappearing within days of starting an antibiotic only to return upon cessation.

It also provides an alternative look at the work of Dobbs and others which shows an improvement in PD upon the eradication of H pylori. It may not be the HP at all.

There are some pretty powerful probiotics out there. Jarrow makes a particularly strong one. I wonder if just introducing known beneficial microbes would have effect....?
-Rick
Rick, you have not tried probiotics yet? Why not? If so, how did they work out for you, if you noticed a difference? I'm intrigued by this because it sounds like something you could maybe try in the privacy of your home, not that I'm recommending that to anyone...

I'm curious about the probiotics but am guessing that they would not have any noticeable effect unless h pylori had been eradicated first?
lurkingforacure is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2011, 10:40 PM   #7
pegleg
Senior Member
 
pegleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,176
Default How about this theory?

Could it possibly be that the constipation produces toxins in the gut that consist of a small enough molecule to be absorbed through the blood brain barrier???? Or maybe just some people have this deficiency of either the BBB or the gut.

I do hope this is given a lot more thought! Does anyone know of other neurological syndromes caused by malabsorption?
Peggy
pegleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-07-2011, 08:33 AM   #8
ol'cs
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 612
Default ????

At first read i thought this to be "pseudoscience", but when i read on, i can see that there maybe merit to all this. Last year, i forget what issue, "Science" had a publication that begged the question " why are we all about 20-30% (?, i forget the quote given), "foreign" (actually commensal) organisms?. With all the recent press that microbes and disease are getting, i am almost sure that some researchers are on to something, but personaly haven' t a clue.
Peg's statement congealed it for me a bit. What if a normally symbiotic bacterium has been "forced" to alter things in it's own genome to survive the onslaught of antibiotics, which are everywhere, even tainting our so called "drinking water". Now what if one of these microbes, "built" a heretofore "unneccessary" enzyme which hydroxylates dopamine specifically at the 6 position of the aryl ring? Maybe as a defense against some other pathogenic bacterium, who almost totally repopulates the gut after it's weaker, beneficial, non-harmful brethren have been killed off after a particularly high dose or long time use of one of our tough to metabolize antibiotics? Then we would have 6-hydroxydopamine, one of the most powerful Parkinsons CAUSING, SMALL MOLECULES KNOWN??? Or, what if one of the "newcomers" for some unknown reason produces an MPTP neurotoxin of some kind (small molecule, not "dumped", but reabsorbed), do to bowel changes?? cs
ol'cs is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Thelma (03-12-2013)
Unread 02-07-2011, 09:45 AM   #9
ol'cs
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 612
Talking Pain meds, night terrors, slowed progression

I will have to try a "stronger" probiotic. I have a particularly "backed up inventory" because i have taken narcotics (nearly the same dose) for 6 years now for absolutely horrid pain. Since i burned out my stomach from taking NSAIDS for pain and had to be put on narcotics, which by the way, don't even touch the pain some days anymore, all i get are the side effects, and some relief. But one would think that after 14 years of PD, i would be almost in a wheelchair, that's what one of the counties supossedly best neuro's told me anyway. I'm very PD symptomatic, but no wheelchair yet, just two canes, to help from falling down, and on good days can still drive around to buy supplies, as i live on my own now. I'm glad i kicked the effexor, it was almost as bad as the PD. I think my pain is half PD from affected gait and the neck problems we all seem to have (especially compounded on my right side from a clavicle broken 3 times in one year), and half pre-PD work in factories, when i was young, worked like a horse and nearly broke my back. Another noticible thing, i'm not progressing nearly as fast as i thought i would be, maybe getting away from an intolerable home situation is doing me some good! I now believe that we can have this absolutely horrible disease for the rest of our natural born days, and still not be forced to suicide, and that IS the bad thing about PD!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have a serious question for my fellow PWP. How many of you get "night terrors, and night sweats"? I think this may be the first signs of a Psychosis. They really scare the sweat out of me, now if they scared the schisse out of me, i'd say "bring em on". I hallucinate, and cry out at "people" who are in my bedroom who i don't know, but think tha tthey have come to kill me. I try desperately to move to stop "them", so much so that it brings me back to conciousness, and i realize that it was a "night terror". I hate going to sleep now for fear of the damn night terrors.
ol'cs is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Thelma (03-12-2013)
Unread 02-07-2011, 06:24 PM   #10
reverett123
In Remembrance
 
reverett123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,772
My Mood:
Default

The French company "Danone" (as in "Dannon Yogurt") has an excellent research program on this and has a very good collection of monographs available. I am going to attach a PDF on probiotics but will quote some as well-

"As probiotics affect the composition of the intestinal
flora, they can also affect its function.
Several possible mechanisms have been suggested
that could account for the effect of probiotics on
intestinal disorders and diarrhea, notably the produc-
tion by some lactic bacteria of antimicrobial sub-
stances (hydrogen peroxide, bacteriocins and organic
acids for example) which have a damaging effect on
the growth of pathogens, and modulate the function
of the immune system.
The probiotics could influence the ability of the flora
to hydrolyze the glucose bonds; this ability has a limi-
ting effect, for instance, on the uptake of the
isoflavones of soy (87). Some lactic bacteria are able
to reduce the activity of some enzymes of the flora,
such as -glucuronidase, -glucosidase, azoreductase
and nitroreductase, which are responsible for con-
verting procarcinogenic substances into carcinogens.
This has been demonstrated in animal species and in
Man (71;72;88)."

Darn it! The meager file sizes permitted here are so small that it won't let me post it. If anyone wants it, PM me.
__________________
Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
reverett123 is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Aunt Bean (02-15-2011), Thelma (03-12-2013)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Exercise Eases Some Menopause Symptoms (HealthDay) NewsBot Health News Headlines 0 01-04-2008 12:30 AM
Exercise Eases Some Menopause Symptoms (HealthDay) NewsBot Health News Headlines 0 01-03-2008 06:30 PM
Nicotine eases Parkinson's symptoms DocJohn Health News Headlines 0 10-25-2007 11:50 AM
Research: Pilates Eases Some Symptoms of Parkinson's Stitcher Parkinson's Disease 2 04-29-2007 10:10 AM
Skin patch eases Parkinson's symptoms, study says DocJohn Health News Headlines 0 01-03-2007 07:30 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 PM.
Brought to you by the fine folks who publish mental health and psychology information at Psych Central Mental Health Forums

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment
provided by a qualified health care provider. Always consult your doctor before trying anything you read here.


Powered by vBulletin • Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.


All posts copyright their original authors Community Guidelines Terms of Use Privacy Policy
NeuroTalk Archives