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Facial Paresthesia

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Unread 12-13-2011, 09:13 AM   #11
breezy1
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Default Neuropathy and vaccine??

I may have forgotten to mention when I had the flu vaccine - it was in September and this paresthesia was already well under way.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 09:42 AM   #12
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Do you get the vaccine each fall?

Vaccines are being looked at as triggers for many autoimmune issues. And not only in humans.

Vaccines in cats are known to cause many diseases now.
In fact they have a new adjuvant free vaccine for cats (rabies), to avoid the cancer that the older vaccines with adjuvants that are thought now to cause vaccination induced sarcoma.
The distemper boosters for cats cause autoimmune kidney disease, for one. Think very carefully, and do your research before any more vaccines.

Vaccines for humans may contain contaminants...other viruses in fact. Watch Dr. Blaylock's informative videos. There is even a video on YouTube now with the former head of vaccines at Merck that ADMITS to contamination in the past. (you have to look around for it --and I warn you it is disturbing).

There is a nerve damage that comes from virus infections... called viral mimicry... Our PN board has links to special tests to test for various gangliosides that might be present after viral assaults. The viral reactions are usually body wide and burning, but can present in many complicated ways.
This is when the body makes antibodies during an infection and when that is over the antibodies remain and attack the host and depending on protein sequences may mimic nervous tissue.
One very well known autoimmune type happens with Strep and it is called PANDAs... but one of our posters at PN discussed with his specialist this "mimicry" situation is possible with other infections too, and we just don't have diagnostic tests to measure them all.

Damage to the trigeminal nerves may just "happen". So you may want to post at our TN forum, as some people have bilateral trigeminal damage and discuss it there.
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum26.html

Sorry to say, it is not an easy problem you have. But there are many people here who you can read about their experiences. We are all different, and it can be confounding to get the correct help. And sometimes there is no answer, sadly. At PN the "no answer" is called idiopathic.

I think an answer to Bryanna's questions for a start, on this venue, is a good beginning, and also you can start to read the links I shared with you.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 10:10 AM   #13
breezy1
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In the past I never got the flu vaccine, as I never get the flu (I mean never) even when everybody around me is getting it. However, 2 years ago my grandson was born a micropreemie and I could not be around him unless I got H1N1 and seasonal flu vaccine, which is why I started getting it. So, this is the third time that I have gotten flu vaccine. I do not plan to get it again. I have never had a reaction in the past. Perhaps another important piece of information is that I do have Hashimoto's Disease.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 10:36 AM   #14
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It sure would be helpful to get as much info on you in the beginning. Having Hashimoto's is a huge pointer to other autoimmune issues.

This is our autoimmune forum:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum44.html

You can use the search function at the top right of the first page of any forum to search your topic.

Autoimmune disease tends to cluster in some patients. The triggers can be vaccines...as one example.
But there is a dietary cause called gluten intolerance/Celiac which has with time, been shown to affect the thyroid and nerves and many other parts of the body. Some thyroid disease runs in families, and this may be an autoimmune tendency as well.

Please read this link:
http://sites.google.com/site/jccglutenfree/

Autoimmune issues are explained in the Dr. Blaylock YouTubes.
Really that should be your first stop.

This poster:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/sh...023#post830023
He is finding positive results from steroid treatment for his supposed vaccine injury.

It is also, a topic, that doctors avoid typically. So getting confirmation of a trigger of vaccines for YOU will not be easily forthcoming. The poster in the link above, is unusual in that his doctor links his nerve problems to the H1N1 vaccine. But that is not the typical way one would be diagnosed today IMO.

In your case an injury during your dental work, which may have repaired itself over time, would possibly be a problem if you are making antibodies to the myelin coating of the axons of the nerves. Once injured, the nerves would attract cytokines in the body and also the antibodies. When this over-reacts, then healing is compromised and inflammation continues instead.

I have some posts explaining nerves/ and nerve signal transmission here:
Sometimes pictures help:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/post828704-7.html

People typically end up here after seeing several doctors unsuccessfully for a chronic problem. And often the answer is not easy to find. All you can do is read what many of us have learned over the years, and are sharing here. Eventually most people find a way to heal themselves. But it can take time and patience.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 04:04 PM   #15
breezy1
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My immediate reaction is to wonder if I should start taking B12 (bought it today when I was out). However, then I ask myself if I need to first get some testing done for B12. If taking it would camouflage problems, than I may never know if I am low in B12. On the other hand, I need some help now.

I had previously mentioned that I am hypothyroid and thought that the majority of hypothyroid problems were autoimmune; guess I should have stated that.

I am wondering exactly what kind of doctor I should be talking with - suggestions?? Seems it isn't a neurologist, dentist or oral surgeon. My PCP is infectious disease. Should I be seeing somebody in immunology? Is that a specialty? I consider myself intelligent, but this is truly confusing. I see drs so seldom - generally only for a yearly physical.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 04:23 PM   #16
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Hi. I have sjourens, celiac, and vit d deficiency. I am under the care of a rheumatologist who does blood on me every 3 months to check for everything including all my vitamin levels.
Have you see one yet?



QUOTE=breezy1;832043]My immediate reaction is to wonder if I should start taking B12 (bought it today when I was out). However, then I ask myself if I need to first get some testing done for B12. If taking it would camouflage problems, than I may never know if I am low in B12. On the other hand, I need some help now.

I had previously mentioned that I am hypothyroid and thought that the majority of hypothyroid problems were autoimmune; guess I should have stated that.

I am wondering exactly what kind of doctor I should be talking with - suggestions?? Seems it isn't a neurologist, dentist or oral surgeon. My PCP is infectious disease. Should I be seeing somebody in immunology? Is that a specialty? I consider myself intelligent, but this is truly confusing. I see drs so seldom - generally only for a yearly physical.[/quote]
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Unread 12-13-2011, 04:39 PM   #17
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Not all hypothyroid is autoimmune. Mine is not... just had the antibodies tested for again... normal. I am hypo and use 75mcg a day of levothyroxine. I've never tested positive on an autoimmune screen and I've had 2 of them. My right sided goiter receded after treatment. My left lobe is partially non-functional, with no explanation or reason known.

Of course tests are only a snapshot in time, and some autoimmune markers like ANA can change and fluctuate.

I do think it is a good idea to have testing first. It helps put you in the scheme of things. The new low cut off is 400 in US, and you should ideally be higher than that. I have a link to Dr. Snow's work, from 1999 in my B12 thread explaining that he found some people with relatively normal B12 levels around 400 or so who still improved with the supplement anyway. Which suggests that some people may have a greater need than others for some reason.

When you supplement you will want to use METHYLcobalamin because it is already bioactive. There is a DNA mutation that about 10% of people have called MTHFR polymorphism, and they cannot methylate B12 and folate. Cyano in most vitamins in most local stores is NOT active form, and hence may not work at all in these people. One doctor came to our board and commented not long ago that perhaps 30% are affected..as some studies he's seen now suggest. So using the active form is best. It has to be taken on an empty stomach because micrograms of drugs or anything can get lost in food/fiber in the GI tract. People who come here eventually may be low because their intrinsic factor is not working and hence passive absorption is all you have...so you have to have no food present to enable the small amount from the oral doses to get into your body. The same applies to your thyroid medication, by the way... empty stomach.

Vit D also can very low...get them both done. One cause of paresthesia around the mouth, etc is a sign of calcium impairment.

People with those Hashimoto's antibodies, may have gluten issues. When that happens, malabsorption occurs in the GI tract of many (not just D and B12) but many other nutrients.
Cara's website The Gluten File (she and I go WAY back a decade now), is very complete on the testing, you can have. Blood work, stool type, etc. She saved her family with this information and remains passionate to this day about it.

But first please give Bryanna the dental details she needs to make her evaluation of your nerve pain. She is very thorough and experienced and may have insights for you.

7 months is a long time for this to be going on IMO. The fact that is has moved over to the other side now, suggests a process of some sort. Since you had an MRI I assume showing your sinuses? ... that was clean?

What I think today, is use the doctors for the testing, and bring your numbers here. Their treatments are typically weak and ineffective. A shot of B12 once a month ? Pffffftttt... many people need more than that. And Using the RX D2? double Pffftttt... doesn't work. You will need D3 if low.

Healing you up you can do with guidance here. Testing you have to request from doctors. Naturopaths, load you up with many expensive things.... but here we start you differently and typically many people improve. Peripheral neuropathy is a huge subject --over 100 causes... and medicine ignores all but the ones that respond to IVIG. Our SubForum is growing with information daily:
http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/forum119.html

If you are using statins for cholesterol? That will be something on that forum for you to consider. Statins prevent remyelination of damaged nerves and cause neuropathies among other things.

But do give Bryanna a chance to evaluate you. You can always PM her for privacy and me too if you want.
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Unread 12-13-2011, 11:58 PM   #18
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Breezy,

Thanks for all the info... I am going to read and sort through it and see what I can come up with. I think I see some possible trigger points but I don't want to reply just yet, I want to review it more closely.

By any chance do you have xrays that you could post of the areas that have been worked on?

Bryanna

Quote:
Originally Posted by breezy1 View Post
Okay, here goes:

1, 3 and 4. Dental procedures were on 30 and 21. # 30 had a crown and they (dentist and endo) decided it needed a root canal - unfortunately, the canal was calcified so after two sessions the endo decided that the tooth would fail as root canal - not possible. So tooth was extracted by oral surgeon with plan for an implant. That side of mouth has had a block 4 times (2 for rc, one for tooth extraction and one for implant insertion) - my understanding was that it was a long lasting block. I specifically asked and was told that articaine or septacaine was used. Each time it seemed that they had to use 3 cartridges for anesthetic doing both a block and then infiltration (I think it is called). On the other side, tooth #21 was part of a 3 unit bridge, so bridge was cut off and then options were a 4 unit bridge (as #21 was removed) or 2 implants. This side also was anesthetized 4 times again articaine was used.

2. No mercury

5. I never get ill, however, I had the flu shot this year and had a reaction that needed to be reported - hot flush, weakness, nausea about 3 hours after injection. Was fine the next day.

6. Seems like the anesthetic went away quickly and a few days later this tingling started and it has now been ongoing - since June after extraction. First it was on the right side only and now on both sides. Treatment has been ongoing.

7. Initial sensation was in right upper cheek near TMJ, but I am not good at recalling exact details. It gets confusing as I was seeing dentist, endo and oral surgeon and each was doing his thing.

8. I am 65 and I do have hypothyroid, which is under control.

9. I have never had a negative reaction to any anesthetic (was actually surprised by the reaction to the flu shot this year).

10. I did have difficulty getting numb and as I said above, oral surgeon used 3 cartridges each time. He seemed surprised at the lack of total numbness after 7 to 10 minutes.

The sensation is awful, again, not horribly painful, but irritating and the loss of taste is annoying. I keep chewing my cheeks and biting my tongue.

With the concern being expressed I'll hold on the B3 until I hear more. But, am sure he said niacin.

Also, have had 3 implants placed with bone graft on 20 and 21. # 20 implant failed and was removed along with the graft. In April oral surgeon is planning a bone graft from my lower jaw to the implant site. I am really concerned about having more dental work done, but at the moment I am having difficulty chewing the food that I cannot taste. It has been difficult and any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
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Unread 12-15-2011, 10:21 PM   #19
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Hi: I'm a pharmacist, and I've read through these posts, and it does sound very much like you have autoimmune problems going on that could contribute to the paresthesia you now have.

Some researchers have pointed to latent effects of vaccines on susceptible individuals. Obviously, not everyone has problems from vaccines, but we almost never know who will before they receive a vaccine. The damage can show up much later, triggered by many different things. So I would not rule that out, especially since you did have the H1N1 vaccine, a particularly sloppy vaccine.

About the vitamins that have been recommended to you: Vitamin D3 is so helpful for almost everything in our bodies (since it's not really a vitamin but a hormone). Get tested, but I'll bet you are low since most people are, and then get started on 5000 units-10,000 units a day, retest in 3 months.

Niacin (B3) is more commonly prescribed for cholesterol, up to 6 g a day max. I don't know that I would jump on board on that one. The B vitamins, in general (with some exceptions), are meant to be taken together in balanced quantities. I don't find the same information that your doctor said about it.

B12 is an exception because if you're deficient, you would supplement with just B12. You could just start on this, but get tested first to avoid wasting your money on a supplement you don't need. Our absorption of B12 from food decreases with age because our stomachs produce less acid, which is required to absorb B12. So an older person taking the same amount of B12 as a younger person will derive less benefit!

Good luck to you. It's complex, and it may turn out to be multi-factorial (as I suspect).

Stacy
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Unread 12-16-2011, 07:47 AM   #20
breezy1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flygirl7 View Post
Hi: I'm a pharmacist, and I've read through these posts, and it does sound very much like you have autoimmune problems going on that could contribute to the paresthesia you now have.

Some researchers have pointed to latent effects of vaccines on susceptible individuals. Obviously, not everyone has problems from vaccines, but we almost never know who will before they receive a vaccine. The damage can show up much later, triggered by many different things. So I would not rule that out, especially since you did have the H1N1 vaccine, a particularly sloppy vaccine.

About the vitamins that have been recommended to you: Vitamin D3 is so helpful for almost everything in our bodies (since it's not really a vitamin but a hormone). Get tested, but I'll bet you are low since most people are, and then get started on 5000 units-10,000 units a day, retest in 3 months.

Niacin (B3) is more commonly prescribed for cholesterol, up to 6 g a day max. I don't know that I would jump on board on that one. The B vitamins, in general (with some exceptions), are meant to be taken together in balanced quantities. I don't find the same information that your doctor said about it.

B12 is an exception because if you're deficient, you would supplement with just B12. You could just start on this, but get tested first to avoid wasting your money on a supplement you don't need. Our absorption of B12 from food decreases with age because our stomachs produce less acid, which is required to absorb B12. So an older person taking the same amount of B12 as a younger person will derive less benefit!

Good luck to you. It's complex, and it may turn out to be multi-factorial (as I suspect).

Stacy
Thanks for all of the above. I had already called the neuro to ask about testing for B12, which he doesn't seem to think is required at the moment. I already take D3 for bones. Neuro says he doubts that we are dealing with anything related to immunizations. He told me to wait until I see the maxillofacial surgeon next week. Given this I have opted to start the B12, which can't hurt and can always be discontinued if it does not seem to help. Does this make sense? Ovbiously this would preclude doing a B12 test that would show anything later.

Originally I was thinking that I was dealing with an articaine reaction, but now I think that it may actually be mulit-faceted. I'll keep you posted.
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