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Electro-stimulation of spine seems to work!!

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Unread 04-26-2009, 05:29 PM   #11
reverett123
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Today started a little weird but straightened out by noon. I haven't done any stim today and probably won't until tomorrow to let my back quit complaining.

It is early but I may have a clue from this morning. I was off most of it and quite deeply at that. But about noon I began to function normally and now at 6 PM remain so.

Today I have stuck to my usual meds every two hours schedule but yesterday was hitting about half that.

From all that I suspect that Estim releases dopamine but does not increase its production to the same extent. Last night I was beginning to experience a deficit which blossomed this morning but was corrected by my renewed med intake. This is not bad news, it just means that a balance is called for. It may also be that some things are being brought out of dormancy.

If this is true, then once I resume the first day should be noticeably improved.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 10:21 AM   #12
kenki
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Default Any further news on Electric stimulation?

Hi Rick,

Lots of us out here are hanging in here waiting for further news of progress of your experiment with Electric Muscle Stimulator. The thread has not hand any news since the 26th of April.

Please Update! Thank you

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Unread 04-28-2009, 01:42 PM   #13
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Rick: Keep the updates coming! Before my PD DX I was a degenerative disc disease patient. I had PT using all known therapy including elctrostimulation (TENS) units, the much ballyhooded DX5000, numerous edipurals, facet injections, etc. All provided some temporary relief. My lower back L-5--S1 still provides me with a level 10 pain reminder that pain is not an easily remedied malady. I hope yours continues to work for you. Bob C
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Unread 04-28-2009, 05:29 PM   #14
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...or I should say, "My back!"

Still recovering from my TV experience so I haven't been keen on antagonizing anyone. I did, however, experiment by running the current from my tail bone DOWN each leg at a time when muscle tone was slipping away and it seemed to re-enervate them.

Today went well with no "offs" thus far.

-Rick
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Unread 04-30-2009, 01:13 PM   #15
reverett123
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I decided to resume last night since my back was much better. Took my 6 PM meds but decided to skip the 8 PM (last of day) and wait for first signs of wearing off. Then I would do the Estim to see if it would extend my on time.

Noticed first signs at 9 PM. Began Estim at 9:15 and ran it until 9:25. Waited half an hour. No effect that I could see so went wearily to bed.

Woke at 4 AM in unusually good shape for that time of day. Except for my back. Definite setback on that score. I suppose that that should come as no surprise since the little machine is designed to make your muscles twitch and jerk.

So, I am going to take a break on doing the back. But I will make notes here on what I think is going on. I think it is a mistake to use the Estim when you are going down. I suspect it may work better when used as part of the day's regular routine instead of a replacement or a rescue.

I will get back to it in a couple of weeks.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Unread 04-30-2009, 05:17 PM   #16
ZucchiniFlower
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This is exciting, Rick! There are good prices here:

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org...FRYpFQodqwPr9Q

And they accept PayPal!!

I may get this one:

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org/meprdi701mai.html

What do you think, Rick? And what size electrodes are best?

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org/elel.html

I need this for nerve pain in my legs, too. It's been very bad and neurontin doesn't help.

Now I'm confused. This unit has both tens a muscle stimulator:

Digital TENS & Muscle Stimulator System

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org/twditemustun1.html

"TENS Unit Stimulation – stands for Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation. Pain, whether chronic (long-term) or acute (short-term, often from surgery or trauma), can be relieved through a variety of methods including drugs, topical ointments, surgery, and electrical stimulation. T.E.N.S. devices deliver mild electrical pulses through the skin to stimulate the cutaneous (surface) and afferent (deep) nerves to help control pain. Unlike drugs or topical ointments, T.E.N.S. does not have any known side effects."

I think the muscle stimulator sparks your muscle to contract without you doing any of the work? Is that correct? EMS?

What is a Muscle Stimulator?:

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org/whismust.html

What Is T.E.N.S.?

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org...stensunit.html

More info:

http://www.medicalproductsonline.org/frusmoel.html
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Last edited by ZucchiniFlower; 04-30-2009 at 05:46 PM.
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Unread 04-30-2009, 07:36 PM   #17
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I've had one for several years, which I've used for an ornery s.i. joint. Found it at a garage sale for $10. Works great. Now it looks like it might serve a dual purpose. Called a Comfor-Tens. Made by Analgesic Healthcare in Tampa, FL. If it's useful for pd, it might be worth a try to track one down on e-Bay or craigslist.

Jon
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Unread 04-30-2009, 08:28 PM   #18
reverett123
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Default TENS, EMS, etc

ZF-

The short answer to your question is "I don't have a clue!" The one I am using has a peanut shaped gel pad about 4" long that the leads clip onto. As to TENS vs EMS, no idea.

I want to emphasize that this is all new territory and there may be dangers, so be cool. I have had both positive and negative experiences in the day or two following each experiment but cannot say either is linked. Not enough data. Just be careful.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Unread 04-30-2009, 09:19 PM   #19
reverett123
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I had not said so because I was not sure that I could come up with it, but about a year ago Anne Frobert sent me a manuscript by a PWP describing his own extensive experiments in this same area. It is an excellent manuscript of 23 pages.

A sample quote:
"The neuromodulator seems to help people with Parkinson’s disease in 2 fundamentally different manners. The first is by stimulating neurotransmitter production; the second by reactivating neural conduction throughout the Proprioception System. This section will define a procedure for reactivating the Proprioception System by stimulating nerves in the Asian Medicine meridians. There is an increasing body of evidence to show that Parkinson’s symptoms are often greatly reduced through use of this procedure. A patent has been approved to protect the rights to use this procedure."

and

"Care should be taken when increasing the intensity levels to vary the bias control slowly until there is a sensation of muscles cramping. When this occurs one should decrease the bias level until the muscles relax, then increase the bias level again. Repeat this process until the muscle no longer cramps. As the neural pathways begin to conduct there is often a sudden jerking and release of tension in the associated muscles.
When the intensity level is at a maximum tolerable (but not painful) level, the modulator should be left at that level for approximately 10 minutes for the body to adapt to the newly conducting nerves. After this period, one usually finds that the modulator will cause a low level stimulation at a much lower intensity level. This is proof that progress has been made. Often significant neurological improvement will be seen in a few hours after treatment is finished."



Unfortunately, the author did not sign his work and I have no idea who he is. If anyone knows anything more. please let me know.
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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Unread 05-03-2009, 06:02 PM   #20
reverett123
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Default One step forward, two back,....

This is a cautionary note. Seems every time I find a blamed miracle there's a bunch of fine print.

After reviewing the last nine days I have concluded that I overdid it with the Estim. I have been having trouble staying on. Looking back over my posts, at first things were great but then gradually deteriorated. As it is, the bad back may have saved me from getting into serious trouble.

I asked for and received a copy of the paper that started me on this and, after reading it, here is what I think. The researchers had found an excess of order in the energy patterns in the spine. High levels of order in a waveform indicates that little information is being carried. The little wiggly lines are what you want. So they tried stimulating in a way that broke up the order.

Now, my little unit pulses away in a nice orderly manner, at least on the basic defacto setting I used. I suspect that I reinforced the order rather than scrambled it. I should have manually switched around the various settings and stopped with the first treatment to see how often it was needed.

I will recover and try it again later, but those of you following this trail be aware.

-Rick
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Born in 1953, 1st symptoms and misdiagnosed as essential tremor in 1992. Dx with PD in 2000.
Currently (2011) taking 200/50 Sinemet CR 8 times a day + 10/100 Sinemet 3 times a day. Functional 90% of waking day but fragile. Failure at exercise but still trying. Constantly experimenting. Beta blocker and ACE inhibitor at present. Currently (01/2013) taking ldopa/carbadopa 200/50 CR six times a day + 10/100 form 3 times daily. Functional 90% of day. Update 04/2013: L/C 200/50 8x; Beta Blocker; ACE Inhib; Ginger; Turmeric; Creatine; Magnesium; Potassium. Doing well.
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